Interviews 2.0 - Organic Mentoring

Welcome to Building Better Developers, the Developer podcast, where we work on getting better step by step professionally and personally. Let's get started. Well, hello and welcome back. We are continuing our season where we're looking into what's out there in the world of interviews. We're calling this interview to interviews 2.0. Again, not the most exciting name, but a lot of exciting people to talk to. We're moving into another interview this time. We're going to be talking with Chip Nightingale and we're going to talk a little bit of a shift this time. We're going to talk about leadership and mentoring and sort of call it organic mentoring, where necessarily an official type of a title or role, but what happens more often than not when you're out in the business world, where you're the people you're working with and the people that work for you and within your teams and how you interact with each other and you end up mentoring each other, both giving and receiving mentoring type information. We will start off with a little bit of a background with Chip and then we're going to dive into that. We are going a little longer. We're going to try to get some, you know, a few more people in as we're going through our interviews here. So we're going to go a little longer per episode, but hopefully that won't be too much. As always, grab your notebook, grab your pencil and be ready to take a few notes along the way. And here we go with starting off our conversation with Chip Nightingale. Today we're going to start a new interview series. We're going to talk with Chip Nightingale and he has quite a story which he's going to share with us. His focus is building organizations, is leadership, a lot of the positive things that I think no matter what your walk of life, you can benefit from it. And so without me spending too much time wasting your time, listen to me, we're going to start talking to Chip. And because I'm not the best at doing a great introduction of people, I find people always me some great little insight when they provide their own background and bio, I'm going to throw it to you. And why don't you tell us a little bit about Chip? What is the, what are the things that we need to know that are going to get us to just like say, man, this guy is awesome from the start? Well, I am hopefully a humble guy. So I hope that I automatically don't just think that I'm awesome, but I'm really excited about being with you, Rob and, and, and your audience and encouraged to be able to just spend some time talking about some of the things that I'm passionate about. And those are just investing in people to be the best that they can possibly be. And this really stems from the last 25 years of being in opportunities from growing a business to to growing a ministry, to growing a church, to coaching sports and having the ups and downs and coaching high school sports and college sports and all those types of things. And it's really helped me to develop within myself opportunities to share what, what was successful and what wasn't and how I was able to grow in the things that I need to learn. And unfortunately for me, most of the things that I learned were from other people that I listened to, I had to go find them. And I think that's what's been so frustrating for me is that I didn't have a mentor. I didn't have someone that invested in me. I actually had to go find it myself. And I think the majority of people are in the same boat. We're looking for that person. And I just want to be that for people. And maybe it's through the podcast or through specific trainings or coming to see them or whatever. So that just gives you the kind of a brief history or overview of who I am. I'm a father, a husband, and I've gone through a divorce. I've experienced the ups and downs of all those types of things. And so I've got a lot of life experience, good and bad. And I'm very open about it. And I think through that, I hope that I can be an encouragement to someone. That's great. See, this is why I have people give their own background, because that right away, you mentioned the idea of having to go find a mentor. I'm always one that has been a fan of it, or at least in recent years, I've been a big fan of it. And I think everybody should have a mentor no matter where you're at. I think that is very rare for somebody to be so far along that there isn't a mentor that can help them. I'm not sure that that even exists. It sort of goes to your idea of humility. There's always somebody that can do things better than you or at least differently. And there's going to be certain areas where they're going to be better. And it is not there is an industry of mentors where people are just like, hey, I'll be your mentor. So it's almost like too much too much noise in there. And for people that say, hey, I don't want to go spend a million dollars. I don't want somebody that's going to teach me to be the next Steve Jobs or some big CEO. I need somebody to mentor me sort of where I'm at. And it sounds like that's where you are. So how do you maybe get to go a little deeper into what was that that like? How did you how did you address that? I mean, you obviously saw that was a gap or something that you needed. So how did you move forward to go resolve that? What's interesting about leadership coaches, they all tell you you need a mentor. And so as a as an individual, I'm a I'm a type I'm very much a type A personality and I'm very driven, I'm very goal oriented, all those types of things. And I thought that I would be the type of person that someone would want to mentor. But what I began to realize is that every time I would begin to search for that, that unfortunately, the way people viewed me was someone in competition. And so it was almost as if they didn't they didn't want to invest in me with fear of what what what that was going to look like. And and so really mentorship for me became, you know, John Maxwell's been mentoring me. I don't even know John Maxwell. He mentors me because I don't have any place else to go. I listen to his podcast. I read his books. I learn about some of the things that he's he's learned and and I've grown in that. Or or Craig Rochelle or Carrie Newhop, you know, basically these these guys who fit into the realm of the things that I do. Well, now today, I'm a fundraiser. I'm an executive at a very large organization. And and so but I had no experience of being a fundraiser. I just was good at raising money. I did. I don't nobody trained me or mentored me into it. So I started looking for someone to mentor me. And I'm an executive at a large organization. And I can't find anybody that wants to do mentor me in this role. And it's and and it's just it's crazy. And what I think is this is actually fairly normal. I don't think that this is an odd case. I actually believe that most people struggle with finding mentors who will encourage and strengthen them. And so for me, I've actually I I try, you know, people don't necessarily come to me and ask me to mentor them. But but I have begun to mentor people and train people. And that's been part of the success that I have grown into understanding. And I know one of the topics we're going to talk about is longevity, building a culture that outlives you. Well, that that really I've learned how to do that by mentoring those who are serving underneath me. And even though they don't realize I'm mentoring them, I am. And I'm preparing them for what's next. And so anyways, mentorship is is I'm finding that it can be a lot of different things. And I'm finding how I get mentored is by going to those people, even though they don't know I'm going to them to find ways to be encouraged. So I think the first there's a couple of questions off of that. But the first one is so you you mentioned like Maxwell and Grichel. So these are people that you obviously were, you know, you were looking around and you were drawn to them. So what was, you know, maybe what maybe was it that spoke to you? Because if so, because there is a lot of that, too. So somebody's saying, I know there's a lot of leadership podcasts and there's a lot of leaders out there. Maybe what was something that you would maybe recommend for them to do to find the one that's going to be a good fit for them? Well, I think the best what I did personally is went to the things that I'm passionate about. Maxwell, the reason I was drawn into him was because this was before podcasts and all those types of things, you know, 20 years ago was he was a pastor that moved into the business world and developed leadership principles that fit both into a Christian organization and a and a secular organization. And I was like, I I need that's what I need. That's he's got the tools. So anything he ended up putting out there, I started following and paying attention to. And and that really and then from there, when he suggests, hey, I would encourage you if you're passionate about this, read this book or do this, I would do it. I pretty much listen to everything he said and I would take those next steps. I think for someone who's looking for that, I think they need to find the thing that they're passionate about. And you can Google it today. Then you could you you you would maybe look through leadership things at the at a bookstore. And and you and that's how I found John Maxwell. But but today you can just Google and say, hey, well, I'm passionate about coaching football. Well, you can find the people that coach football and find those people that will do it the way that you believe it should be done. There's they're all out there. And so I that would be my encouragement is don't just sit and wait for someone to come to you, actually go and do the research and find those people that that provided material that are already doing it for you. That's good. Good point. And as you said, it has gotten a lot easier. It's you can you can sit down and search and find, you know, very detailed, people that are probably going to be a good fit for you just for a really good Google search. Now back, some of you mentioned that that I think is an interesting explain a little more is the idea of we'll call it sort of like informal mentoring is that you have people that work for you that you mentor. And it's not, you know, it's not like some formal thing where you get together, you know, every two weeks, say, OK, I'm mentoring you and this is what we're going. But you are you're pouring into them and they're getting that benefit out of it. And I assume that to some level, they also, you know, maybe they do or not recognize that there is some mentoring going on, that there is leadership there where you're leading them to grow. And. And that kind of situation is like, how would you recommend somebody that comes into your organization, particularly if they don't work for you, to sort of look for those sorts of informal mentors or maybe how to get the most out of those relationships? Well, for me, I know that I I bring people on that I know that are going to better the the department or the area that we are leading with the area that I am leading. And and so I'm constantly looking for people to invest in in specific areas. Those who are looking for mentors, I think they need to be looking for jobs and opportunities of of bosses that want to invest in them. And I think there's so many jobs out there, but that you can get. But there's not a lot of jobs out there where there's a leader within there that's humble enough to just say, you know what, we're going to walk through this together, we're going to make mistakes together. It's not a dictatorship. We're a team. And I would encourage people who are looking for some sort of growth strategy and understanding like next level, next level training is a is really defined a a boss or someone that's leading them or a job that that they're they're willing to invest and they're willing to invest in them. And really, that's that's kind of what I do. We do training, we do specific trainings. And and then I'm constantly pushing, pushing them to meet specific agendas and goals. And then we talk through them and we talk through the values of what they learn from those things and whether they like it or not. I'm mentoring them. And they don't even they don't realize it because it's part of their job. So I I would encourage people to look for leaders who are like that. I think sort of as a follow up, you mentioned you coach high school. Do you see and just because I have some similar experience, I think you think I know where this is going to go. But do you see do you see mentoring opportunities as a coach as well? Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting. I've been coaching long enough. We moved to Florida, so I don't get to see these guys anymore. But there's 10 young men who are coaching high school sports against that were coaching against me. And so so we as a coach, we were mentoring them when they were playing to the point where they wanted to be coaches. And I thought this was interesting. I was just in Michigan. I live in Florida now, but I was in Michigan because my daughter got married last weekend and a young man that I coached 20 years ago. I mean, I must have been 25, 26 years old. I was defensive coordinator for this school. We went to the playoffs, all of those types of things. And a young man that he's not a young man anymore. He's got a family and kids. He reached out to me because he heard I was in the area. And he said, I know, I know you're going to be too busy because there's a wedding this weekend. But when you come next time, will you will you stop and connect with me? And he still calls me coach. He you know, it was that stuff never changes. And and, you know, the coaches in my life were the exact same way. My coaching college football, I you know, we stay connected on Facebook. He's not coaching anymore, but we stay connected. We still talk about sports. And and he mentored me by by being an example of someone I wanted to to be like. And so coaching is a great opportunity for that. I think you know, you're doing it well when you know, when you have people that are out there doing it and they recognize them when you come at at the end of the game, they're giving you hugs and they're saying, thank you so much for what you did. And I'm here because of you. And it really brings a lot of joy to you and reminds you of why you do those things. I agree. That's I think that's part of the thing. And it is youth sports is something a little bit has its own rewards because you do watch, you know, and in most cases, in this case, you know, the young kids, you know, young girls or boys grow up to be young men and women and you get to see that evolution. And I think in like there is something where you're like, hey, I helped that person along. And it's great when they say that, you know, hey, I I learned this or I got this from you because you know that that work that you put into them that was I did pay off that it was something that was was valuable to them. And that leads right into you back onto the business side because you talked about sort of training up people that ended up being coaches and sort of in that same organization or that same role and sort of took over where maybe you would have otherwise been a coach somewhere. You know, that kind of thing is how do you build a team that survives you when we get into the business world, you know, sort of that same kind of thing? How do you maybe translate that over to put together an organization or team that when you move on, you know that they're going to you're not going to leave them hanging high and dry or anything, but they're going to continue to grow and expand. Yeah, that's a great that's a great question. And and most businesses actually don't survive the the person who starts it. In fact, I just saw saw something interesting yesterday. We were we were doing training on innovation and innovation is a big part of this mentorship. And if we are as bosses not willing to create opportunities for innovation from those that are that we're leading, I really don't think we're going to sustain growth and sustain the business, not going to sustain beyond the owner anyways, because that means the owner is the only innovation and and and that can become a huge problem. Well, one of the things that I learned, I worked for the Prince Corporation was in Holland, Michigan. They they did parts for cars, like door panels and all kinds of different things like that. But they had huge incentives in there to get their employees to to engage so that they felt like they're a part of the ministry or a part of the business or and really they treated it like a business. They didn't like a ministry. It was kind of kind of interesting. It was definitely a secular organization. But but they showed a lot of care and love and respect for their employees to the point that if someone came up with a great idea and this was one of the ideas that came out of this group of employees was insulation behind the door panels and how they could take the the the materials that were waste and recycle those materials and make insulation out of that. Well, not only did that company. Help them do that, but they helped them get their own patent and create another company to and that was their reward. They rewarded them. It wasn't actually the company that said, you know what, we're going to keep this for ourselves, we're going to make a ton of money off of this, which they ended up still making a ton of money, but they made a ton of money and they invested in another company. That's true mentorship. And basically, unfortunately, the Prince Corporation ended up selling themselves out to Johnson Controls Bay when this big company came in. That all went away. And there was no more mentorship. It was all just about putting out parts. And eventually they just disappeared. I wonder where Prince Corporation would be today. If they wouldn't have just sold out. There's too many companies, I think, today that are just selling out for that check and they're not building into the future. And the reason why is because they can't think past the owner. One of the things that we have or that I have done is that and I'm in this spot right now, there's nobody to replace me, but I'm looking to find that person to replace me in the role that I'm in. And in order to do that, I need to find people that are like me, but also find people who aren't like me. And so that they are helping us to to grow in this. And really, ultimately, my goal would be that it's not a replacement of me. There's a replacement. There's a couple of me's that are coming in to replace me. I think that's where the longevity is, because what I have learned is that I can invest in one person. And then 10 years from now, they may just turn around and leave and to find something better. I have to constantly be investing in someone because I and with and with an understanding that they may go on to someplace else and be successful there and be excited that they are. But have that next person in line so that when that happens, I'm prepared for it. So I think that's the biggest piece. I think most of the time it doesn't work that way because we don't really want to take the time to invest in someone that probably will leave. And that will be a place for us to press pause. And we will come back next episode. We're going to continue our conversation with Chip. We're going to continue talking about how you build this leadership, this mentoring type of a culture. And hopefully you can already see from some of his experiences where you can really you can make a big impact on others and a big impact on your own career. When you take advantage of when you embrace what others offer to you, whether they're a coach or a lead or a senior role. And particularly, you know, this is it's a it's an everybody together kind of approach. You know, it's not something where, you know, hey, I can only bring you up so far and then I've got to hold you back because then you'll somehow be competition to me. Instead, we all get better when we make everybody else better. When we're worried about just helping everybody be the best them that they can be, it helps all of us. It is always going to be to our benefit. Yeah. You know, you may end up not working with that person again. They could even end up on the competition, but. Overall, it's still going to be better for you. Will you will find that things will work out better? You know, it's an advantage to the entire industry. And it's it's one of the things that the more we give, the better. I think we're going to see those kinds of things come back to us. Dare I say, it's one of those like karmic kinds of things. That being said, because I don't want all that bad karma from running too much into your day. We'll wrap this one up and then we'll come back next time. Continue our conversation with Chip. So go out there and have yourself a great day, a great week. And we will talk to you next time. Thank you for listening to building better developers. The developer nor podcast. You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon, anywhere that you can find podcasts. We are there. And remember, just a little bit of effort every day ends up adding into great momentum and great success. Hi, this is Rob from building better developers, the developer podcast. We're excited to be on Alexa. 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