Interview with William A. Adams

Welcome to Building Better Developers, the Developer podcast, where we work on getting better step by step, professionally and personally. Let's get started. Well, hello and welcome back. We're continuing our season of interviews and we are wrapping up a discussion with the William A. Adams. This episode, we're going to talk about what he calls the tech bros and how you after all of the discussion we've had of the problems with diversity or lack of diversity and in thought and software in IT, we're actually going to solve the problem a little bit. We're going to offer some solutions and basically, you know, spoiler alert, it's going to come down to making sure that you have your own tech bros, but even a little bit more than that. And I think this is where we can see where we coming out of this conversation can contribute to the solution and maybe turn this thing around and in general, get us to a point where there is a better IT community that is building better software, more useful to more people and avoiding the whole idea that we explored last time around where you start with diversity, you bring diverse people into the same funnel or the same set of processes and it kicks out non diverse, you know, same thing that it always was. It doesn't matter where your source is. It's it's probably a sad analogy, but it's sort of like throwing a bunch of meat into a grinder and you still get sausage on the other end. It's sort of, you know, I know that's sort of a, I guess a gross analogy, but it is more or less what happens if you try to force everybody into the same same processes, same thought model, then it doesn't matter what their diverse background is. You're still going to kick out the same result, which honestly was the goal of many organizations in the past. When you look at like like an IBM back in the day and some of the other the big six firms back when they were the big six, when there were big six, six big consulting firms, you would bring people in and you would crank people out with your way to think. And you can see where that that has some problems. There are definitely limitations to it, even though there are some strengths. But now let's get back to our discussion with the, yes, that's it, the William A. Adams. Yeah, there's way too many stories of, you know, entrepreneurs and that that started off as, especially with the cost of education these days, we've got these these high school kids that say, you know what, I don't I can do better with whatever my side hustle is. I've built a website or I do consulting or whatever it is. And I don't I don't need to go spend six figures on an education when I already have that. And I can make it right now. It's like there's no there's really no benefit to it. And I think that's you know, that's one of those conversations. I think that as a especially in America that I think needs to be had more is where we need to like sort of adjust how this whole education system works and how we think about it. Because I think it is very antiquated in how it does it. It creates bars to entry where it makes no sense. Yeah. And it's just too slow at this point. I mean, the fact of the matter is over the last two years, machine learning has become the hot ticket item in tech. And it's barely been taught in schools over the last, you know, four or five years. But when something new comes along, it's like, oh, rest programming is now the thing. Okay. Well, let us change the curriculum at enough school. You're 10 years down the line before you're getting Russ developers out of colleges. So you're of no use to me, you know, but the coding academies like, oh, yeah, Russ. Okay. New 10 new coding academies just popped up. There's a curiosity stream, you damn it. It's just all online. They can learn Russ within a weekend. Yeah. College. You know, we're developing the individual is like, they're grown people. They don't need that. They just need the skills. So community colleges are even faster. So maybe they're going to turn that and coding academies are even faster than that. So we have to rethink, like you said, the value prop here is like, well, which parts of education systems do we really need to move fast in these burgeoning markets? Right. And it's not all about four year colleges and degrees. So, yep. Well, and I think you'd be a good example is there's, you know, all those languages that you listed off, I'm pretty sure you didn't do those in college. I mean, there's a couple of, none of them. And so for somebody to say, oh, well, you didn't study this in college. I could say, well, yeah, because it didn't exist. But for them to just say, okay, well, we're not going to talk to you would be to push away all of that other experience, everything that you would have that you would bring to the table as an employee. To me, it's about as useful as saying we only want people that, you know, have a, you know, come in and a button down or wear blue shoes or whatever, you know, just it's almost, it feels almost just contrived at this point to say, hey, you need to have a degree. And particularly when between the now we could go, we could spend days talking about coding camps and some are just like checking boxes and some do develop, you know, great employees. But when you get in between that and certifications and, you know, and particularly where there's, you know, there's some of the brain dump sites and stuff like that, where some certifications are, there's a lot of value in somebody having that and others, it's just, it's like, really, they, you might as well just put a, you know, stamp a gold star on them or something. It doesn't really add a whole lot to it. Yep. So there's all that. And the key is just being open-minded to the different kinds of talent that's out there and thinking about ways in which you can get them in. And like I said, sometimes you have to change your job descriptions. And in most cases, you have to change your culture and then you just got to open your arms and go, okay, well, come on in. Right? It's as simple as that. Now, another thing that you swing back that you mentioned, which is a curiosity is you talked about how, you know, really they didn't have, there wasn't VC money for you and it was really just, you had to, you had to earn it. And that definitely is, you know, that seems to be sort of the common story is it's, you know, if you're, if your skin's a certain way or you come from a certain neighborhood, then you get, you get the silver spoon and everybody else has to work their butt off to get there. And to me, you know, I see that as I would rather have, and I've heard a lot of people say this, I'd rather have like the C student that worked their butt off as opposed to the person just like coasted through and you had easy, you know, straight A's, but, you know, and it's also, I would rather, I find it's better to have that, that employee that had to work to get there as opposed to the one that was just like handed stuff, you know, all along. It was, you know, they had the easier route because it's like they're hungrier people. These are people that they, they want it and they didn't just, you know, sort of like, just falling into it. And so how do you see that particularly from a, you know, some of the halls that you've walked in when you're looking at like, you know, VC groups and stuff like that, is that something that comes across them? Do they, do they, has that, is that something that at least, and especially these days that has started to register with them that, Hey, people that have worked their butts off and are hungry are the kinds that you, you know, maybe you want to invest in them a little bit more because they're going to get you there probably faster than the ones that the first time they see, you know, some, some sort of struggle or obstacle, they're like, Oh, I'm out, I'm done. And they're off doing something else. Yeah. I think there's probably, you know, the world of investing is, it used to be just like VCs. That's pretty much it. Nowadays you have a lot more home offices, you know, like people who were on the top of millions of dollars and they're investing for themselves, not through a VC, right? So it's their home, their family wealth, right? So that's changed the game a little bit. But percentage wise, you know, back in the day, we were probably less than 3% of VC money went to women and minorities. And that's still true today. It hasn't changed much in 20, 30 years. So I think that the key thing for me is to just say, well, we got to help ourselves. There have to be, there's plenty of black folks who have money. And we have to convince them to invest in our own tribe and not go chasing after the stuff that anyone could do. You know, it's like, well, you got to invest in your own tribe. There's no one else is going to, but it's more than just that. You also have to have systemic things to buttress, buttress people. And this is what I'm focused on now. It's like, okay, even if the money was there, even if the money was there, not enough of our people have the experiences to know what to do with it, right? A lot of, and I'll get to the tech bro thing, a lot of the people who get the money, their parents are knowledgeable of how to run a business. Their friends are knowledgeable. Whoever they went to college is knowledgeable. Someone's father is the CEO of some company. They interned with them. They were shown the ropes. They have a network that is all tech bros and, you know, they support each other. The young black man that comes from the slum of Cabara doesn't have any of that. They don't have access to the world. They don't know what it looks like to run a business. They don't have a friend who got $10 million to start their company from their dad. You know? So there's a lot of disconnects, discontinuities there that you have to be able to shore up and support. I don't think that the, I can just call them collectively the tech bros. I don't think the tech bros see the value of the hardworking black woman as like, that's what we want to invest in. I'd be foolish not to do that investment. They become patronizing. They know better. The minority from their perspective comes along and says, I'm going to do a business that would do blog. They're like, what do you know? Let me tell you, because I've got all my friends behind me who will back me up. You don't know what you're doing. So we're not going to give my, let me give you some good advice. Don't work for one of our companies for a while and then you'll be educated. It's like, okay. So they're self-reinforcing. They're talking to themselves in their star chamber and they don't see the value of, they see the value of the struggling young person that looks like them and they'll support them even if it's the exact same idea that a minority has. They're going to support the person that looks like them. We're all tribal and it's hard to counter this. You have to consciously fight against your own tribalism and your own biases to become enlightened enough to get over that and just take a step back and be humble. It takes a certain amount of humility to say, maybe I'm not the best person to think about what women need. Maybe this woman in front of me who seems very ambitious and has a really good plan, maybe I have something that I can learn from her. Maybe I should trust her. Maybe I should give her this money and let her flourish. It takes a lot of enlightenment to not, what do we call this? Mansplaining. It takes a lot of enlightenment to not mansplain to somebody who clearly knows more than you do about the subject because you're in a position where it's like, well, I've got all these millions of dollars. I must be the smartest person in the room. It's like, no, you got lucky. You're not the person that knows everything. You just so happen to be sitting on that side of the table. If you allow yourself some humility and be inclusive, you'll make great discoveries about these wonderful people who have all such ideas that you never have come up with on your own. That's what it takes. When you're being rewarded with millions of dollars because you got lucky in the stock market or your company so happens to do good or whatever, it's hard to fight against that bias that you think you're the smartest person in the room. When in fact, we're just the luckiest person in the room. That's what I think about how they perceive all this awesome talent out there in the world. It's like, at the end of the day, they'll go back to their tech pro circle and slap each other on the back and say, we're the smartest people in the room. Good thing we didn't give the money to them. Is that the long game then is really giving back to your own, having enough people that say, hey, we need to give back to our own tribe that we need to build within our tribe and bring them up. Then you can say, you have your own tech bros. They did theirs, but you know what? We have our tech bros. Hopefully, you do it better than they do it and you do it with a mind towards inclusion and all these other sorts of things that you pointed them and say, well, they're doing it wrong. For me, it's very clearly not standing around with a hand out waiting for somebody to give it to us. Everyone's tribal. You got to go get yours, not stand around waiting for someone to give you a hand because it's not coming. People like me who've had some amount of success in the industry have to stand up and go, all right, it's my turn to give back. It's my turn to tutor, mentor, invest, show people the ropes and show them the way. Get down on hands and knees and let them stand on my back. That's what has to happen or else we just will never get out of this endless cycle. Excellent. Well, I think I will go ahead. We'll wrap this one up because we could go on for days. Like I said, there's a lot of areas. Turn off the fire hose. Just like stop. Give me a second to breathe. I do want to be very respectful of your time because this has been everything I had hoped for and more in a conversation. Oh, cool. It goes back to like you said, I can sit here in my ivory tower and see things going on and say, oh, well, usually it's like, oh, it would be easy to fix it there. It's a simple thing to do that. This thing over here would be that it's not a big deal, but it's not until you get into the problem and especially when you've got somebody that's actually living it in the problem and have up to their armpits in grease working through this thing to say, oh, yeah, there's a lot of moving parts. It's very complex. It's not, which is, and I guess that's what we all are sort of, at least in the Western world, sort of raised on that. It takes 22 minutes. You get through your sitcom. There's a solution. Everybody goes over happy. And there's so many things that just, it's not that simple. It takes one person to start, but then you've got to continue to work. You've got to build momentum. It takes time to grow. And I do have this, I've always had for some reason, this sort of dream of having an organization that is the, basically goes in and takes all of those cast decides that were like, oh, they didn't get into MIT because they came from the wrong zip code or whatever it is. And getting those people and creating an organization that just stomps everybody else and says, all of these people that you turned aside, they were worth it. And they've got a chip on their shoulder and they were, they're more than happy to have somebody actually give them an opportunity. And they rise to the occasion where for whatever reason you said they didn't, they show they prove themselves. And that's, I think that's just like human nature. That's just one of those things is if you get turned down, then there's always going to be a little bit of that. I want to show them that, that desire to have that justice sort of, to say, look, I, I was, you made a wrong decision. You were wrong. You should have chose me. Now I'm working for your competition and we're stomping your butt. Yeah. Or get all those people, help them build startups and then get them acquired by those companies. That's another path to building wealth within that community. So, yep. So excellent. So I guess just in party, are there any, if anybody's interested, is there like some, key places you would like to point people to, particularly like if somebody's listening and says, Oh, this, yeah, these programs sound great. I would love to get a foot in the door here. Take a, talk to William, William, the William Adams. Make sure you always put the in front. Then you'll get the right one. Otherwise you'll get just some other schmooze. That guy you really want. So I have a website is William-A-Adams.com. And I'm just doing a lot of stuff there. Like I do blog, I have coding tutorials. There's all the links to the social media things and whatnot. So that's really the place that I would send people to get in contact with me through social media or otherwise. Yeah, that's pretty much it. Excellent. Nice, short and a technical kind of thing. Cause there's something that I just, it makes my heart warm to hear somebody's like, and I've got coding examples and stuff like that. I'm just saying that's like, if I have a day and I don't write code, I feel like I've like, I've, you know, I've missed out or I've like, I haven't done my exercise. I didn't get my morning run. Exactly. It's like, Oh, I'm getting rusty. I got to write some code and like get those stretch those muscles out a little bit. Yeah. I want to thank you again for your time. This has been, this has been really pleasant. This has been, I just, the moment I saw what you do, I was like, this guy is going to be a great person to talk to. And you have, you have not, you know, let me down at all. So thank you. I hope your audience appreciates it. And you know, some of them will look me up and consume stuff and, you know, the world will be a better place. I hope so. You know, if we can get a couple of those people that listen to you and they end up going through everything and sending you one of those life-changing emails, then that is a, that's a big win all around. Yeah. All right. All right. Thank you. Well, you have a good day and a good rest of the week and we'll be in touch with you. Okay. Bye. Bye. And there you have it. That wraps up our discussion with the William A Adams, but we will continue. We are not done with yet with the interview 2.0 season. We'll come back next episode. We're going to have somebody new to talk to. We are going to continue. We've got a good list still ahead. Lots of different topics we're going to cover this season and a lot of drinking from the fire hose. Unfortunately, there's going to be, or maybe fortunately. So, you know, be ready to have some, some way to take notes, even if it's just mental notes, because there have been a lot of great items that I've even gotten out of interviews and had to go back and as I'm talking with people, having these discussions, had to take some notes and go check out some of these things that they've suggested and make even some notes to myself of ways to adjust prior processes and priorities and goals and some of those things. That being said, we will let you get back to your day. Hopefully you can digest this a little bit before we get into the next episode. And as always go out there and have yourself a great day, a great week, and we will talk to you next time. Hi, this is Rob from Building Better Developers, the Develop-a-Noor podcast. We're excited to be on Alexa now. You can enable us by simply saying, Alexa, enable building better developers, and we will be there ready for you every time you want to listen to your now favorite podcast. 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