Networking and Referrals in Software Sales and Consulting

Welcome to building better developers, the developer podcast, where we work on getting better step by step professionally and personally. Let's get started. Welcome back. We are continuing our season of interviews and we are starting a new interview. This episode, we're going to start a conversation with Ian Campbell of Mission Suite. That is a software as a service product that we will be talking about. However, one of the things that we're going to spend a lot of time in as well is the idea of networking as part of your marketing, because while he has a product and that's part of what we want to sort of expose you to and say, hey, here's something cool you may want to check out. There's also an approach that Ian takes to networking and marketing based on his background, as we'll find out that I think it will be very useful for all of us. Then take some notes as we go along the way and maybe just consider a little bit differently what networking may mean to you or how we'll say difficult or challenging or easy it may be because some people are wired for it, some people not so much. I think after this discussion, you will have a little bit different view of networking and maybe even think about, hey, I'm going to try that and see if that isn't something I can use to sort of advance my career, my business, my side hustle, whatever it happens to be. That being said, it's time for us to get started. Let's start our discussion with Ian Campbell. Well today we're going to spend some time with Ian Campbell with Mission Suite. We are going to talk about networking and referrals and how to make it work for you, even if that's not necessary. You may already be like, I'm turning the channel, I'm going somewhere else, but I think he's going to spend some time and we're going to realize that it's not as big and scary as you think it may not be quite too warm and fuzzy, but we're going to get you closer to the latter than the former. As always, I am not the best at introducing people and getting all of the nuances and helping to understand their personality. I'm going to go right to you, Ian, and say, hey, can you want to go ahead and introduce yourself? Tell us a little bit about yourself and we'll see where that goes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, thank you for having me. I appreciate you having me on here. As you mentioned, I am the CEO of Mission Suite and the founder of Mission Suite. Mission Suite is a CRM software automation software platform. CRM software sales. Okay. I swear I talk like almost every day. It's a CRM and sales automation software platform. Third time's a charm. So I did not develop the software. I actually white label it. I'm sure your audience is probably plenty aware of how those arrangements tend to work, but I white label it from a group out in San Diego, a partner company of mine. I built my company around the software and so Mission Suite is my company. I started it about 12 years ago, give or take. I grew up as a marketing consultant. And when I say I grew up, I started consulting when I was 20 years old and I was too young and dumb to know that I was completely unqualified to be doing what I was doing. But fortunately, not a lot of other people did either. So I was able to get away with it and turned out I had a knack for it. And so I built a consulting practice and then eventually I had clients that actually had a need for marketing software, for CRM software and some automation tools and whatnot. And so the constant contacts of the world and the melt-ups of the world and Salesforce, God knows, those types of things. Nobody knows about those tools, but they don't do the things that my clients needed them to do all in one system. And that's where Mission Suite thrives is that our system is an all-in-one platform. And so I saw the need for it and eventually got tired of consulting and decided to move into my own instead of consulting for startup and early stage companies, start consulting for my own company and doing some stuff internally and growing Mission Suite as a business. And that's what brings me here today is brings me to this point now rather, I guess, is that Mission Suite's been around for a while and we've been starting steadily growing and seeing some fun stuff come along. So yeah, that's kind of the long and short. There's a lot more that I could dive into, but that's the long and short of it. Well, I think just because you mentioned it, we'll start sort of a little more on the technical side. So is Mission Suite, is it a, because you say it's an all-in-one kind of thing, is it self-contained or is it integrate with some of those other tools that are out there? Or is it basically you're in Mission Suite and boom, you've got all of those pieces available to you? Yeah, so both really. So we are an all-in-one self-contained platform. So you can do your email marketing in the same system that you're doing your CRM and task reminders and all that sort of stuff. The same system, you're in the same system that you're setting up all your automation and all your automated touch points and things like that. So we focus primarily on the sales and the marketing side at Mission Suite because that's, again, having been in the marketing world for a long time, that's kind of what I've always known. I do have clients that use it for things like operations, for things like just client management and things like that too. So onboarding new clients, taking new clients for when they have a support request. We set up a support ticket system inside, you can set up a support ticket inside the system and use that sort of stuff. So it really is kind of an all-in-one, almost business management platform that you can leverage. I wouldn't quite put it with... I'm also painfully honest, particularly about this stuff. And so I wouldn't quite put it on par or put it neck and neck necessarily with a big ERP system like the Oracle's and using Salesforce as a platform, as kind of an ERP platform, things like that. I wouldn't necessarily go that far with it, but for some... Because we're not doing really in-depth inventory management and stuff like that, but we're doing a lot of the things that from a sales marketing perspective, from a client onboarding perspective, from client management and everything, you can do a lot of that sort of stuff with it. Maybe your ideal or range of ideal clients that you're looking for, who do you think is the sweet spot that are... These are the customers that are going to get the most bang for their buck out of it. Yeah. So coming from the consulting world, I love working with the indiepreneurs, the solo business owners, one-man-band kind of thing where they've got... Maybe they have something else going on. Maybe they're just doing... They're starting a business as a side project. Maybe this is their full-time gig and they're just trying to figure out how to navigate all this. But when you're dealing in that realm, you tend to be really focused on trying to get the work done and trying to get the work done really well because it's your reputation, right? Well, the challenge with that is that you end up falling into what I call the roller coaster of business development. And then so you work, work, work to get some new clients and then you get a client, then you work, work, work on the client, then you don't get any... You're not doing the work to find your next client. And then client one reaches its natural conclusion, but you don't have client two yet and you've got to figure out how to get to that thing. So you end up in this kind of roller coaster up and down of revenue. So we try to focus on ending that for those solopreneurs and whatnot. So I love working with that realm. Again, I feel that pain really, really, really... I know that pain really well. And then of course, we work with sales teams and marketing groups inside of companies. So if you've got a sales leader for a company that's doing like, maybe it has five sales people, 10 sales people, it's starting to grow a sales team. Maybe they're hiring the first salesperson, whatever the case may be. Those types of companies we work with a lot because again, one of the biggest frustrations for a lot of people, and I'm sure that your audience is probably well familiar with this, is that you put together all the software and then the people that are supposed to be using it don't want to touch it. For whatever reason, right? And usually it's because they don't see the value in it. And you look at it, it's like, how do you not see this? This is so great. This is fantastic for you. So with Mission Suite, one of our biggest selling points is beyond pricing, beyond feature set, beyond anything else, our biggest selling point is the fact that we do hands-on, one-on-one training and support at no additional cost for any user of Mission Suite. So if you're a user of Mission Suite, you can reach out to our support team and say, hey, Simone, I need to get on a Zoom call with you for training. When, you know, what time do you have available? Right. And she'll send you a calendar link. You can schedule, you can book it out right on our calendar and you're good to go. So with those types of folks, I like working with those types of folks because I do get to kind of, I get to see a lot of the transformation that gets to happen with those types of companies. So, and while you're never going to get every salesperson to use a CRM, we've seen more adoption than most with the sales teams that we've used. Yeah, I found that that's something that I don't think gets brought up as much. And it's sort of a change a little bit I've seen is that, you know, people want to buy, it's not really shelf for anymore because it's somewhere out on the cloudware or whatever. You just pull it down and install it. And they want to just install it and go. But I've seen the companies that to me have had the really the most successful or most used software have exactly that approach. So they say, Hey, we're going to, you know, we'll get you in there, but we want to provide you. Usually it's a lot of training and then a lot of it is some handholding to just say, Hey, I want to, I want to sit here with you and walk you through how to use this for your needs. Yeah. And it actually I've found, and you may, if you've sat in those, you'll be interested to see what your thoughts are on this. But I've found that when you're in the training seat, not the trainee, but the trainer, there's a lot that is learned about how people want to use the software. And there's a lot of features that come out of those conversations. Very much so. Very much so. You know, I mean, and then there are a lot of times when I'll even say, man, I wish that that, you know, you want to do this. And you and connected to that and make that happen. I, you know, I wish that there was a way that we could do that right now. There's not, but let's see what we can do to make that happen. So, you know, there is a lot of that's that sort of stuff that that a lot of times, to your point is, is user generated, but also, you know, it would just make my life easier a lot of times. Right. And so in dealing with client training and whatnot, because if, you know, things like little things like, I mean, these have been around for a while now, but like tool tips that are inside of the system. Right. Hey, if there was a little question mark that I could hover my arrow over and see what the see it, get it, get it an actual detailed explanation, not just kind of, you know, a quick thing and click here for more help kind of a deal, but an actual like help section article right inside of a tool tip. And that's the kind of stuff that we, you know, the law. I mean, again, it did happen a while ago, but we implemented that. And all of a sudden support requests go down quite a bit. Right. Because now the user is happy because they're able, they don't have to jump on a call with us because let's be frank, nobody likes to go to training. Right. I mean, it's kind of like flossing your teeth. Right. I mean, it's not really something that anybody likes to do, but it's something that you do because you got to get it done. And so, so, but if you're able to kind of create other ways to, to get around those or, and that goes with feature sets, that goes with kind of work arounds and whatnot. If you're able to figure out how to do it more easily, all the better to you. Yeah. I think it's, uh, there's also that mindset you have. And I think a lot of the listeners in that we're, you know, it's either off hours or you're just trying to hit a deadline. And like you said earlier, you just want to get stuff done. And when you, you know, when you click on the help thing and it's like, you know, help for a save button and all it says is click this button to save or something, something that's like, you know, three words. It's like, okay, that was, that was more of a waste of my time than anything else. Yeah. If you can, if you can go in there and it's like, this is what it does. Here's what you need to know. A lot of times that that's like, oh, good. Now I can move forward and get my stuff done that I need done. And I don't have to pause or try to schedule something or you say, oh, okay. Now I'm stopped. I can't work because I'm stuck. I need this answer. Right. And you know, that's, that's the hardest thing. And especially now people are, you know, 24 seven, way so, way too often in global and everything else where it's just, you never know when it's going to be three in the morning for you. And somebody needs something like now. Yep. Exactly. Exactly. Especially as you know, in the development world, I mean, you see that all the time, you know, it's all of a sudden someone's hair's on fire and it becomes your problem. Right. And so, you know, there is there, there are, there's a lot there, but at the same time, it's in my best interest as a business owner to make sure that you can use my platform. Right. Because the only way that you're going to keep paying me to do anything is if you, if you're able to use it and use it easily. Right. And so, uh, so that's why, you know, no matter what, no matter what it takes, I mean, we're, we, we're not a 24 seven shop. Right. But we're, you know, we've got easily accessible business hours and we're able to, we're able to, to, to provide that sort of training, provide that sort of support whenever you need it. And, you know, we can, we can actually get it done. But it's, yeah, it helps to, you know, when you can eliminate that hair on fire a little bit and say, here's some, here's some, you know, frequently asked questions, here's some help that usually people are going to need. Right. Sometimes that says, okay, cool. I can do this and then I can come back later and realize that, Hey, I want to schedule some more training or something. Exactly. Right. Yeah. It's sort of the equivalent of the floss thing or it's like, Oh, you know, I've got some cavities. All right. I guess I need to start flossing. It's like, Oh, I don't know this as well as I should. I need to schedule some time. That's it, man. That's it. And as long as you get it done before you have a broken tooth, you're good to go. Right. Exactly. Just to complete the metaphor. Right. That's right. That's right. The other thing that was, that's, this actually is very, very much, I think, a part and parcel to particularly software sales and particularly when you get into the consulting, you know, you go back to your, your background is. I think a lot of people, it's for most people, even I think it's, it's a referral kind of approach is you don't, you're not often going to be like, Hey, I'm going to, I'm a software consultant and I've got my number in the yellow pages. Well, now it's on the yellow pages website or, you know, I've got an ad that I ran in the local newspaper or something like that, whatever, or, or even like, you know, Google, it's like, Oh, I've got my website and I show up on some searches. That's not for consulting and software sales. It's just not as often that that's going to come up. You've got to have something that's, that's going to draw people in. But then I think, and you can confirm this, I'm, or, you know, is that I think it's, it's based on referrals. It's going to be, somebody's going to send you there in some way, form or fashion. And that sort of starts the conversation. Exactly. Yeah. And that's kind of, I mean, first of all, I'd be surprised if anybody beyond our generation knows what the yellow pages still are. Right. Or would even think to take an ad on a newspaper. Right. Because it's just not the, I mean, I don't know many people who get a newspaper anymore. Right. And so trying to find, trying to figure out how to develop business in those ways becomes really challenging, especially when it's something that's so focused on trust. Right. And the fact that, you know, if I'm going to trust you to build out a platform for me or build out an app or some sort of piece of software from a website, whatever the case may be, then, you know, I got to feel really, really, really comfortable that you're going to be able to get it done and get it done effectively, because this is business critical stuff a lot of times. Right. I mean, sure. There's some, there are plenty of things out there that are just kind of helpful and not, not so much, but a lot of times they're, you know, I need my, I need this app built because this is what I'm going to base my business on or, you know, that kind of stuff. And so, you know, I need, you need to, you need to have that kind of trust and finding that trust a lot of times becomes really challenging when, you know, when, if you're going to do a quick, if you're going to try to make a cold call, if you're going to try and, and just do a drop by and say, hey, I'd like to talk to your, to the head of your company, because I build software. And I think that, that you might be that, you know, if you're ever interested, I'd like to put my name in the ring. Right. Those types of things, there's not a whole, it takes, I mean, you can get to that level of trust to get it done, but the time that it takes is significantly, is significantly drawn out. Right. And so one of the, one way that I've found personally, especially in the consulting world, when again, I was dealing with marketing and marketing and business development. So there, again, it's a, it was, there was a lot of trust required to do that sort of stuff. But one of the ways that you can kind of shorten that cycle and get there faster is by creating, is by getting referrals, getting people to somebody to introduce you or to be in a place where people are already looking for some, something like what you're doing. Right. So getting out to a networking event, getting a referral from somebody, get it, you know, and just like finding those early connections, because, you know, decisions are made by the people that show up. And that's, and that's how you should, because in no small part, because that's how you know that that's somebody that you can trust is because they actually showed up, right. They were there. And so, you know, whether it's a referral or a networking event, what have you, that becomes really important. And it's just such an easier way and more enjoyable way to develop business than trying to respond to every cold email or, you know, even to do a drop in or whatever, you know, what any other sales tactic that somebody might, might be pitching on. And especially if you're, you know, I mean, if you're the one doing the work, you don't have time for that stuff. Right. You don't have time to go do a drop in. You don't have time to make a hundred phone calls just to get one conversation. Right. So find you. So it becomes more and more important to find other ways to get it done. Starting from that, it's like, you know, like start with like networking events. How do you, and particularly because it's, it'd be awesome if you could, you know, had a network event. That's everybody that wants to buy your product right now. That's like, that's a sign me up. I'll be the good guy the week. Right. But it's usually, and especially now, cause it's, it's become a thing. I mean, there's an industry that is networking events and things like that. And they are general purpose. It's all kinds of different customers and people and different reasons that they're going to be there. So how do you recommend somebody that goes in and it's, you know, you use software, an example, or just about anything that's really, you know, more of a targeted field is what, what should I do? Like if I'm going in there and I want to find a way to build a network that's useful for me, I don't need to know, you know, other than our analogy, I don't need to know a lot of dentists or something like that. But I need to know people that, that, you know, are, are looking for there either they are looking for what I want or from the referral side that they know people that are looking for what I'm selling. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, that the answer to that kind of brings us back to even before you start looking at networking events, right? So first of all, knowing you, knowing your ideal client profile, knowing exactly who you are talking, who you're going after as a client is really, really helpful. Right. I mean, and that's, you know, I'm looking for people that are in the retail, that, that own retail companies or that are just trying to get into that are that own wholesale distributors to get into retail companies. I'm looking for, you know, people who are in the natural food space or whatever the case may be, right? I spent a lot of time, I spent six years in Denver. So Boulder and Boulder was right there. So natural foods were huge up there. So if you wanted, if you knew that if you were trying to get into natural foods, you went up into Boulder and you started networking around, you would find yourself at least in a conversation with five or six people that were that were there. But knowing who your ideal client profile is, is your kind of is your first step, right? Because that's how I mean, because none of the other stuff matters if you don't know that. So knowing exactly who you want to be targeting, who you want to be talking to. And bear in mind, too, that when I talk about, whenever you talk about targeting, we're not talking about necessarily excluding other people. Whereas if somebody shows up at your doorstep and says, hey, I need something built for me, can you, can you develop this thing? You know, you're not going to say no, because you're not a natural food business, but it gives you a sense of it gives you a sense of direction. And you can also have multiple targets, too. So if it's I want to be in natural foods, I want to be in the outdoor space. I want to be in biotech, right? Out. Those are the those are the three. Those are the three worlds that I want that I want to do business in, because I think that there's a need there. Fantastic. Now, at least you have kind of a sense of where you're going to go and you can kind of probably figure out or make some assumptions on who the who the right person is to be talking to in those businesses, things like that. But at least you know kind of where you're where you want to start kind of focusing your efforts. And we will pause right there. We'll come back next episode. We're going to continue our discussion with Ian, where we really get into the networking side of things and how that can benefit us. How that is useful to us and how we can do it without feeling like we're wasting our time, essentially. Likewise, I think this is an area where when you start spending a little time in it, there is a momentum to it. There is a comfort because the first time or two you go, you just you're the new person. But then as you get further into it, you know, some people now you have some conversations you can have that are not you know, you don't need the icebreakers anymore. You can actually go in, have a conversation, talk to people you know, and slowly sort of expand your your circle or your area of influence or area of people that you know. So it's one of those things that it's no time like the present to get started. Start thinking through that, maybe have a bit of a networking marketing kind of strategy. But right now, we'll just go ahead and pass on that and move on to our day. And we'll come back next time. We'll continue our conversation with Ian. So go out there and have yourself a great day, a great week, and we will talk to you next time. Thank you for listening to Building Better Developers, the Develop-a-Nor podcast. You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon, anywhere that you can find podcasts. We are there. And remember, just a little bit of effort every day ends up adding into great momentum and great success. Hi, this is Rob from Building Better Developers, the Develop-a-Nor podcast. We're excited to be on Alexa now. 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