Building Better Developers, episode with Tyler Foley

Welcome to Building Better Developers, the Developer podcast, where we work on getting better step by step professionally and personally. Let's get started. Well hello and welcome back. We are continuing our season of interviews and we're continuing our interview with Tyler Foley, one of those that actually survived being a child actor. We're going to talk about a lot of other things that he has survived as we get into this discussion. But if you've made part one, you realize that he's going to be far more entertaining than I am. So I want to get right back to talking to him. That's interesting because that's been, especially in the last, gosh, I don't know, actually probably it's been forever. There's always, there's these ebbs and flows of how you should present and particularly with how, with the PowerPoint stuff like that. It's like, should you have slides? Shouldn't you have slides? Do you have a lot of information? Not a lot of information. Should you have something they take home? Should you have something that's all part of the presentation? That's interesting how it's, it's sort of like I said, sort of ebbs and flows that sometimes like no, you just use everything up or you run all the way through and then question and answer or you do a little bit and then you bring the audience back. And then even watching styles of people, because some people seem to do that better. Is there something in that, is there, along those lines, are there things that you recommend across the board or is it really more that you go back to content and personality as far as like a, maybe like a template or an approach to a presentation? I think it's unique. Like it's a DNA thing. Your presentation is going to be unique to you, but you have to find, and it's going to be unique every presentation because your audience is always different. And that's why I say the first question you should ask is what am I missing? And if you are constantly aware that there may be something outside of your peripheral that you're not accounting for, you will be a lot more attuned to what your audience needs are, which needs to be the next question that you ask. Am I serving them to the best of my ability? The only way to gauge that is to check in with them. Now some people are really good and can do an intuitive check. I can sweep a crowd and I can see, are they engaged? Are they looking at me? Are they nodding along? Are they taking notes? Are they busy with their phone? Are they looking off into the distance? Are they having small conversations off into the corner? Those will inform how engaged your audience are. Now I'm lucky that most of my presentations have a lot of people nodding along and taking notes and spontaneously wanting to ask questions. The hands go up. If you see the hand go up, don't make them sit there. This is not elementary school. You don't have to wait to be called upon. Just be like, hey, so it looks like we've got a question. What's your question? And then you ask and it's that call and response that really becomes effective. But your style definitely is not going to be my style because my style is unique to me. So you need to ask, what am I missing and how am I serving my audience? What do they need? And that will change with each presentation. And so you need to be flexible in your presentation and your presentation style to adapt to your audience who ultimately you're trying to serve. My presentations to universities are drastically different to my presentations to C-suite boardrooms, which are drastically different to my presentations to university faculty. And then university student body are two totally different presentations. Student bodies and universities to high school student bodies, drastically different. And then even into the large stadium shows that I do when I'm there as a bumper speaker, it's a totally different presentation style. So that actually leads into one of the sort of that being judged and stuff like that and that that stage fright side of stuff is so what are some things somebody can do? You come in there, you've got your presentation and you see that everybody's on their phone or everybody's shaking their head instead of nodding or or they're slipping out the back. It's what are maybe some some tools and particularly if you're not if you come in, you're like, I'm not the best speaker. I'm not the most broadly knowledgeable person. What are maybe some tools that somebody can use to try to bring that back on track? Well, first of all, never tell yourself that you're not broadly knowledgeable. I promise you, you're broadly knowledgeable. It just may not be on the topic that you're presenting. If you're presenting on something that you don't feel knowledgeable on, why were you asked to present that will create the focus because we only ask the best to present. We don't ask second best. So if you feel that you are not broadly knowledgeable on this topic, but you are asked to present on it, then you are the resident expert within that social structure. So whatever it is that you do know is what you need to focus on. This is what I know. This is what and the other thing is, too, if you don't feel that you know, you're there probably for confirmation bias. So who else feels this way? OK, do we have anybody else who has and at that point, as a speaker, your job is to present information, your job is not to be right. And I think people get that confused. Your job is to present information to the best of your ability. And sometimes the best way for you to present that information is to have somebody else introduce it. And if you find that you're, you know, looking at a audience who is definitely not engaged with what you're saying, turn to page forty three in my book, which is also the fifth chapter in it. And we have an entire chapter called how to engage and re-engage your audience. And some of the quickest ways to do that is literally to reach into your audience and say, you know, who agrees with this and then who doesn't agree with that? That's when you know that you're in your own power and when you are truly the director of ceremonies, when you can ask for a counter opinion and then be able to defend it. Or guide the audience to seeing why maybe that counter opinion, although counterintuitive, may actually be correct. That can be very powerful, too. And that's why I say your presentation does not necessarily mean that you have to speak the whole time. Your only job is to leave your audience better than you found them. And if you don't feel that you are the subject matter expert in this area, you can still leave your audience more knowledgeable than when you came by finding the people who are. So maybe you need to pull in a video from someone else who can explain it. And do an explainer video and then say, this is what I pulled from this. Did anybody else get anything? And then lead a discussion. There's so many different things you can do. One of my favorite techniques and the one that I definitely overuse, anybody who's ever been to any one of my training programs will know that I use this more than any other thing that I have put in my book or whatever. It's a common trope for me. And that is the turn to your partner and share. Right. Turn to your partner and share. Because if I need to take a break or I need some water or I need to check my notes or I want to check how we're doing for time, I don't want to break the learning. I want to reinforce the learning. So I say, you know, turn to a partner. What's a big takeaway that you've taken from the last 15 minutes? Like, what is the one thing that landed that has really been helpful for you? And then I go and I get my brain, can I have a little sip and I check my notes and make sure that we're on time? Then I'm like, OK, and then who's brave? Who wants to share? What did you what did what was your takeaway? Oh, your takeaway was the thing you're afraid to say is what your audience needs to hear. Excellent. I love that one. That is my favorite. I found it most effective. Who else resonated with that? I mean, they raised their hands. What's that? First of all, it's reinforcing your message. It's making you look more like an expert because, hey, people, they remember the thing that you said and you were the one who said it. If for whatever reason, some of the information you're getting back is not correct, that's your opportunity to correct it and and really nip any misunderstandings in the bud. And that's that into itself is invaluable as well. So I love using that technique and then the bubble up in the share because it reinforces your message. It breaks the tension. It breaks the boredom. Somebody else is reinforcing your message for you. It gets people up and moving like for so many reasons. If you find that you're losing your audience, turn to a partner and share is probably the easiest and quickest way to get everybody back on board and then refocus to you. That's a great that I love that as a recommendation, because I've been in so many places and dealt with speakers and both sides of it, where it's that feel that once you do that, you're like you're giving the reins over to somebody else as opposed to really helping to reinforce it. And as a from an educational point of view, it always helps, I think, to have that sort of like that stopping point, that marker marker where you can say, OK, you've just spent 15 minutes talking about speaking and you've given these bullet points or something along those lines. Now they get a minute to to digest it. And like you said, you get a minute to digest your water or to check the time or whatever it happens to be. And so it does allow everything to just sort of resettle a bit, settle in and then move on to that next step. Yeah. And in that reinforcement area, too, you say it and somebody else says it. Then when you do the bubble up, it's a third time that it gets mentioned. And that's it's that repetition that creates reinforcement. So if there's those critical points that need to be that, you know, that you need to take away from you. Right. And that should be that that main goal. That's one of those questions that you need to ask at the beginning. What does this audience need? And that's a great question to ask of the audience of the promoter. Like, what is the promoter? What is the promoter's expectation or your boss's expectation? Whoever has given you the reins to speak. OK, what is the end goal? Like, what is the takeaway that I need to make sure? Lands and it may only be one thing. And so that's those bubble up or those opportunity to make sure that you're on track. And if you're not, that it's better to course correct sooner rather than later. Right, because if I'm in an orbit and I only need to correct a half a degree now, that's easy. But if I'm starting to shoot off into space, those three, four, five degree, seven degree, ten degree, twelve degree, eighty degree, ninety degree, hundred and eighty degree course corrections get really hard. If you don't believe me, just ask the Titanic. So I do want to step back a little bit because you talked about personal stories and stuff like that. And one thing we haven't mentioned, I want to flip back to is that you were actually partially paralyzed as a child when you were 17 and you went through that experience. And that also, you know, if anybody that's falling along and playing along at the home game realizes that was while you were, you know, you were big into acting and stuff like that, which obviously sounds like would have impacted your career, which at that point was your entire life. I mean, you're, you know, 75 percent of your life, you've been doing this and you've got something. So I guess first, let's talk a little bit about just a little bit more of the background of what happened, how it happened. So how it happened, nobody knows that. I am a lovely medical mystery. And what I do know is that New Year's Eve, 1996, I went to bed with a fully functional body and New Year's Day, 1997, woke up in the left side of my body was paralyzed. And to answer the unasked question, which most people do know, I was not drinking the night before I was actually the DD. And had spent the majority of the night shuttling my friends around to various parties and making sure that they got home safely. And when I got home around four thirty, five o'clock in the morning, passed out, got up to the smell of pancakes being cooked by my mom, who was a beautiful woman and and had a hard time getting up the stairs. My bedroom was in the basement. And I thought, you know, when you sleep on your arm, you fall asleep and your arm goes numb and you're like, oh, you just you got to shake it off. And then you get the pins and needles and then it's like, oh, that hurts. But then eventually it kind of comes that numb before the pins and needles was what my body felt like. I couldn't feel it. I could touch it. I could see it, but I couldn't feel it. And subsequently, walking was really weird because there was no sensation of a footfall. So I ended up having this really weird preambulation where I'd like kind of like shuffle like the hunchback of Notre Dame, because I would like I had to like feel the momentum going forward. And I remember brushing my teeth and the toothpaste was just spilling out of my mouth. And my mom asked the same question your audience was asking. Tyler, are you drunk? I was like, oh, it's like, what is wrong with you? I was like, what do you mean? What is wrong with me? And then I looked and I was actually drooling on my chest and I couldn't feel it. So toothpaste running all down my chest and on my shoulder and down my face. And it was just this toothpaste foam everywhere. And being like, I don't know what is wrong. Since then, my mom looked at me and as I'm talking, I'm talking out of just one side of my mouth, my eye was super droopy. At first, they thought I might have had a stroke. Then they thought I might have had a palsy like a Bell's palsy. Problem is with the stroke, I would have never been able to get better. There had also been some neurological damage that theoretically should have shown up on like a CT scan or an MRI. And none of those things did happen. The Bell's palsy was ruled out because it was a Bell's palsy is hemispherical, but it's only to the face and to have the numbness throughout my body was was weird. So they I think to this day, don't know what happened. But you're right, it was very devastating for me because I was in my senior year at a fine arts high school. I was in a very dance intensive production, tap dance, no less. That requires very fine motor skill and control, particularly of your feet. And I just didn't have it. I couldn't feel I could hear the sounds, but I couldn't make my feet do the thing that needed to be done, especially with the really intricate quadruple sounding like, you know, pick up shuffles and pull backs and stuff like that. I just I just couldn't make it work. And and either and on top of it, I looked like a stroke victim. And so I thought at 17, I'm like what I like prime of my youth and playing all these teen kids and nobody wants the stroke kid, they just want the regular kid. So unless there was a very specific part that was going to be written for me, I wasn't going to get it. But again, blessing, it's what got me into some of my stunt work because I couldn't show my face for the for about a half a year to a year. But I could still be in performance so I could work behind the scenes. So I started doing a lot of like sets and props work and doing work behind the scenes on stage. I started to get into a little bit more stunt work because I understood camera and film, but I couldn't see my face. And double bonus, I couldn't feel if somebody hit me. So stage fighting was really easy for like a half a year. And things like that would just, you know, presented themselves in a way that I probably wouldn't have gotten otherwise. And I'd become really complacent at 17 because at that point I had been acting professionally for 11 years and I was doing it in a very small. Kind of environment, right? Like there wasn't a lot of performance in the city that I grew up in and I actually did. I grew up outside the city in a very small rural community, just outside a very tiny ranching community where almost everybody was a cowboy. And so for me to be in the arts was unique unto itself. And then I had this opportunity to do it. But because I was the big fish in a small pond, I had stopped. I'd phoned in a lot of performances and having the opportunity to do it. Having that medical incident almost take it all away, double down my conviction that this was a thing that I was going to do. It actually was why I ended up moving out to a larger film center just to be able to be exposed more to the opportunities. That's it. It's interesting that you have that. And first question is, so you end up in that situation where you're like, hey, I've been phoning it in and it's just not, you know, just sort of been coasting along and you have to wake up. Is that something that has stuck with you since, especially as you've moved around or you're like, hey, I don't want to get back into that, phone it in. I don't want to get back to where I'm just coasting through. I want to actually do things that I can embrace. Yeah, you know, it's a Yoda said it best do or do not. There is no try. And it's true. If I find myself, if I'm not giving it 100 percent, I'm going to give it zero. And it's become a really nice barometer for me. Is this a thing that I'm passionate about? And if I'm not passionate about it, why am I doing it? And that goes for like even just how I run my business. I am not good at a lot of things. But I know so many people who are. So let them do it. Let somebody else do the website development. Let somebody else write the copy. Let somebody else do the marketing and the promoting. I'm good at showing up and delivering. That is my job. My job is the performance side of it. And a little bit of the content development. I understand the concepts. But even to that, I am not a great educator. My father was an incredible educator. And I know great educators. I know people who can design courses and help me put together my seminars and my training workshops so that they are providing value. I work with a great woman by the name of Michelle, formerly Sir Panchy. Now I can't remember what her married name is because she's always going to be Sir Panchy to me. She's been remarried and so her name is Jane. But Michelle does Heart Graves is actually her married name. And she is an early childhood development specialist. And I treat all of my education from an early childhood development standpoint. Because even though I'm primarily dealing with adult education, adults have been out of standardized curriculum for years. And so you need to reintroduce concepts to them the same way that you would reintroduce, you would just introduce concepts in kindergarten or early primary years. Because they're completely brand new and people aren't used to sitting in a classroom learning. That's a very institutionalized way of learning. And something that we indoctrinate into people over the course of 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 years. Then you lose it. So I work with Michelle primarily so that I could like, how do we introduce this completely new foreign concept to somebody so that they understand it? And so that's one of the reasons why my programs are as engaging as they are. Not because I'm a genius, because I work with geniuses. I surround myself with geniuses daily. I love to be the stupidest person on my team. And I would consider myself an incredibly educated and smart individual. Well, that's pretty good. You know, when you set the, if you're the weakest link and you're a pretty strong link anyways, then obviously that's going to work out pretty good for you. It's like, yeah, it's like the idea of an all-star team or something like that. You know, if you're the worst guy on the all-star team, it's like, hey, that's okay. Because we've got a pretty good team. If you're, depending on how good you are, if you're that good and everyone else is better than you, I think we got good odds. I think success is in their future. You know, it's funny. I used to play hockey at a fairly high level. I'm a goaltender. And I remember, I never did get scouted, but I remember talking with scouts. And one of the scouts asked me, would I rather be on a, would I rather be the best player on the worst team or the worst player on the best team? And I was like, hands down, I want to be the worst player on the best team. And he said, why? I said, well, first, like, it's not just a reason, you know, I want to win. So I want to be on a winning team. I want to learn from people who know how to win. And I want to constantly have the pressure that I am the worst because that forces me to get better. If I'm the best, it's real easy to get complacent and start to let your skillset atrophy. But if you are on the bubble of getting cut every day, you have to work just that much harder. So I would always rather be the worst player on the best team than the best player on the worst, hands down. Yep. That's good. I was actually, I was going to ask a little bit about hockey because that's one of my hobbies as well. It's funny because one of my most memorable hockey introductions was, this is where they like, you know, young kids, you know, mites, termites, something like that. And the guy comes, coach comes in and he's like, okay, so I got to read together, you know, who's my forwards, who my defense and then just who are the idiots out there? And I'm like, what? I was like, I mean, the goalies, you know, the people that just, as he's like, what kind of idiot stands there and gets, you know, is happy to have rubber shot at their face and everywhere else. And I was like, I'm like, wow, that's like a good way to just like introduce the kids to, yeah, the goalies is a, that's a special kind of player right there because you can think about all the different things you think about a hockey, but then the guy that's going to get hit the most run over the most lowest to the ground. And granted, it's got some pretty good gear these days, but that's, that's usually not what that's a, that takes a unique individual to say, that's what I wanted. Yeah. Somebody who's been playing the position now for 33 years, I can promise you that all the equipment in the world, the puck will always find the gap. I was, I was actually playing just after new years and my dangler broke the little bit of lexan that goes at the bottom of the chin of the, of the mask. And it had broke prior to Christmas. And I was, I was trying to get one and, and you just can't get them. Like it's weird, right? All the supply chain issues, you can't get chicken, you can't get eggs for me. My big concern was I couldn't get my, my dangler for my mask. It was like back ordered. And I, and I have played the position with both with a dangler and without a dangler, you know, I've got really good masks and a high collar on my chest protector. So I was like, I'll play a couple of games and, you know, played a couple of games. There was no problem. But the last game that I played before my daughter went back to school, she was on the bench because she had to come with me and my wife was working. And so I'm playing hockey. So Kenzie's on the bench, sitting there, hanging out with the guys. She plays coach. So she brings her iPad and she tells the guys the plays that they're supposed to play. She doesn't actually know, but it's hilarious to watch. And, and two minutes left in the game, cross scene pass from dot to dot in the face-off circle rate. And it came right to, it was like the perfect Ovechkin setup. Like it, when the guy was sitting in Ovechkin's office and found it, he managed to get that puck up and off. And while I was going from left to right, I, you know, did the proper thing. I tracked with my eyes, tracked with my nose, lean over, you know, wanted your nose on the puck. And as I leaned up that puck, I was, I saw where he wanted to shoot and he saw where he wanted to shoot. And that is not where the puck went. He got all of it and he got all of it up really fast. And it came right up underneath, no Lexan, dangler, and hit me right in the throat. And my voice has been forever altered for the last month. I cannot, I, this is not how I normally sound. And what's worse is I had an audition. I had two auditions. So I had an audition for Fargo, which films up here. And I needed to have a, a North Dakota accent. And normally I can't do it well. And I had an audition for a musical. And the musical, the role was actually written for me with me in mind, but I just had to audition to, so that the director agreed to get it for me. And I took the puck to the throat, could not, for the life of me sing. I can't, I can barely go C to C. I don't even have an octave anymore because my throat's healing, but geez, yeah. I was able to do that at North Dakota, just no problem. And it was, it was, it was bang on what they thought they wanted. So, so yeah, I think I got that role. That's, that's what my agent said. So there's, there's some good and some bad. Yeah. That's, it's funny. Cause that's, I've had twice in the last, I don't know, five or six years that, you know, the goalies have that wear danglers. I've had twice where I've had one where they, you know, they, they got a crack and they come in the next game and like, eh, it's not that big a, big a deal. And sure enough, next game, like twice, they've got same thing, hitting the throat, not quite that level. One was glancing, but that's just the magic of that. You know, you would think that little thing of rubber is not that smart, but it finds openings no matter, no matter how much gear you've got, it will find a way to get bone or flesh. Yeah. It will find the hole. Like I've got, you know, my chest protector wraps around my ribs and yet every once in a while, I'll still get one just up on the side by the kidneys or I've got a full wrap now on the, my back leg pad, which you that never had when I was growing up, that was not a thing, but the new pads have started to really do that. And I still managed to get one on my upper calf the other day. It came off of it. The guy shot it, it bounced off of the crossbar, the upper bar and, and shot like right down. And smacked into the top of my thigh. And I was like, or not my thigh on my calf. And I was like, man, like it will find the gap. The puck is smart. The puck knows the puck knows. And I think that's most important takeaway for everybody out there is that you gotta watch out. Those pucks are smart. They will find you the puck knows. So make sure that you keep your heads up, head on a swivel with those things. They will hunt you down. Well, and I'll tell you, it's not just talking, you know, that's, that's life. That's business. They there, when there are gaps in your system, they will be exposed eventually. And your job is to learn from them. Like I could not wear a dangler. I'd be like, ah, you know, they keep breaking the puck hits them. Well, if the puck's hitting them, it's probably hitting for a reason. Right? So you gotta learn that, you know, and I, the first time it ever happened to me, I was much younger and you know, I still wear a throat collar. And now I'm thankful that I had my throat collar on because it's ballistic gel that actually hardens on impact. So I would, I would hate to know what my, what I was very close to losing my voice completely a few weeks ago, which is, would be devastating to me because I make my entire living out of talking, you know, 350 podcasts last year. And I wouldn't have been able to do a single one of them if I couldn't talk. I, you know, six stages coming up this year, big, big stages, you know, with a lot of dollars involved and I, I can't lose that revenue. So if there's a hole in the system, it'll be found out eventually. And your job, you know, the really successful entrepreneurs are the ones who are constantly poking the holes themselves. And that's why I said the best question that you can ever ask yourself, whether it's in a presentation or just in your business in general, what am I missing? And that will really inform what you need to do next. Yeah, that's the, you know, you think about it like a, when you do an inflatable, you've got a tire and they want to figure out where the hole is. You go, you know, dip in the water and you go look for where there's a leak. And it's, it is, it's, you know, it's Murphy's law and all those other things that say, Hey, if it can go wrong at will, but that's, that's the attitude you got to have is, Hey, I've got to, I've got to make sure that I cover the gaps. And you've, you never will. There's always going to be gaps. It feels like, so you just, you got to keep working on that. Now I want to thank you for your time. This has been, it's just been incredible, which is of course expected because you know, you're a speaker, so you should be able to do that. We should have everybody. I'm sure nobody walked into this one saying, ah, Tyler's no good. Everybody has been, and probably they've already like, you know, worn their pencils down to the nub. So I want to thank you. This has been a great tour de force of topics that we've gone through here and really been a lot of informative stuff and a lot of ways to tie this stuff again, back to your life, wherever you're at, whether it's a, you know, little presentation you got to do for your boss or whether you've got to go get out and stage in front of millions of people. Well, and really that's the key, right? Recognizing. And that's why I named my Facebook group Endless Stages, because they really are endless. Your opportunities to present are limitless and we are constantly, constantly speaking in public, whether we recognize it or not. And we are constantly interacting and telling our story. If you really want to get good at it, that's the difference. You know, learning how to harness the power of our story, learn how to use it as a tool to help us get better in life and in business. That's, that's where the key lies. So if anybody, now everybody I'm sure is going to be like, I got to track this Tyler guy down. He's great. What's the best way for them to get a hold of you? And particularly like if they're like, Hey, I need to check out this Endless Stages thing. And the best thing to do is to go to my website, which is Sean Tyler Foley.com. And Sean is spelled the proper Irish way S E A N T Y L E R F O L E Y.com and tell them Tyler sent you and right above the fold. First thing you're going to see is the invitation to join Endless Stages. And so just click on that. You'll get a link sent to you to join the private Facebook group. And make sure you come through the website and not through Mark Zuckerberg's site. Cause you go on Mark's site, you'll probably be able to find Endless Stages and even being a private group, you'll be able to enter in all the questions, but you won't get all the fun freebies. So as a, as a thank you to your listeners on developer, I would encourage them to come through the website because then they'll get a free PDF download of my book, The Power to Speak Naked. They will get access to my online training series, Drop the Mic, which is a series of seven five minute videos that are specifically designed to give very quick, very actionable advice on being a better, more confident speaker. So it's the kind of thing where if you gave yourself five minutes a day for a week, you'd be able to consume it. And within a week, be able to have some really good steps to get ready for your next presentation. So that's free. And then obviously the free training that we provide in the group and our newest member, I would like to say, welcome Rob, I saw that you popped in and so welcome to Endless Stages. And I'm looking forward to seeing a lot of your listeners in there too. I would ask if they are going to take advantage of this offer though, before they do, you'll probably put the link down in the show notes. And so in order to scroll to the show notes, we're going to have to scroll past a little icon. It's got like five stars and a little box that says comments. It's not there for decoration or separation from the show to the show notes. It's there for a reason. And I would encourage your listeners to take advantage of that and give you a five star review. Because if they're coming and they're listening to developerpreneur and they want to get better within their business, if they become a better developer and entrepreneur, it's not just a clever tagline. It's the promise that you're giving them. So they've got to be coming for a reason. And if they're a regular listener, if they could give you a five star review and say exactly why, what was one of their favorite episodes? How do they pronounce developerneur? Do they pronounce it right? Do they struggle with it the way that I do? Like all of these things are going to help inform you as the host, what is really serving your audience. So it's a win-win-win for all of us, because that will tell you who's engaged and what they're enjoying. You as a listener will have your ability to provide inputs so that you can get the kind of guests on this show that will help and serve you. And it'll help me because it'll boost the rankings of the show in general, which means that I have a higher probability of having my episode heard by the people who need to hear my message. So if you could do me a favor, stop this right now, give it a five star review, leave a comment on what your favorite episode was, what was one of your favorite takeaways, what has Rob provided that you've gotten a lot of value out of. And if you could do that for me, then it would be my honor to see you in the Endless Stages group, give you the free PDF copy of my bestselling book and give you access to both the Endless Stages group itself and our Drop the Mic Trainer series. Thank you. Thank you for all of that. And thank you for your time. This has been, as I said, it's been great. I want to thank you for being a guest. You probably can't hear it, but there's a lot of applause. I think there's a standing ovation out there. Everybody's up and saying, yep, this is great. They're going to ask you to come back for more, but we'll catch you another time for that. I hear it. I hear it every time. I have, I have dropped the mic. There you go. I think we heard it and it's rolling off the stage right now. Thanks a lot. We'll talk to you next time around. You have a good day. You as well. And that will wrap it up. I know you're going to have to grab a box of Kleenex. You're shedding a tear. This was a really good conversation. I want to thank Tyler again for his time, for just entertaining us and giving us so much information, tying things back, even our rabbit trails as we got into side discussions about being a hockey goalie, but how that all got tied back. I think you can take just his conversation and use it as sort of a, for lack of a better term, a masterclass on how to be a speaker and how to still focus on your points and find ways to get things back to the message that you want to carry across. Of course, if you want to know anymore, you can always go out to endless stages. You can check that stuff out. There'll be links in the show notes and I highly recommend take a look at it. It's some stuff that if you have to do public speaking or if you worry about doing public speaking, if you worry about your speaking skills and presentation skills, I think you can find some good information there, but it's time for you to get back to your day and me to get back to mine. So go out there and have yourself a great day, a great week, and we will talk to you next time. Thank you for listening to Building Better Developers, the Develop-a-Nor podcast. You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon, anywhere that you can find podcasts. We are there. And remember, just a little bit of effort every day ends up adding into great momentum and great success. Till he passes out Oh, well I love you Rob, I think there ain't a shadow of doubt Come on, so I said give it up for Rob, he's my new best friend, I think I love you and we haven't even met. I want to say thank you for having me on your show, cause this friendship of ours is one that can only grow