Building Better Developers

Welcome to Building Better Developers, the Developer podcast, where we work on getting better step by step, professionally and personally. Let's get started. Well, hello and welcome back. We are in part two of an interview with Sean Ali. We are talking about self care. We're talking about burning the candles at both ends, sort of, because we're very productive. We're very busy, but also making sure that we have a longer candle, basically, that we're finding ways to stay healthy, keep ourselves essentially sane and ready to tackle the next day because we've got a lot to do and we don't need to be dragged down by whether it's health issues or burnout or some of the other things that can occur or even life itself. Other things in life, besides work, can drain us if we aren't taking care of them. They can be things where we find out we're only working for work's sake as opposed to having some sort of happiness that comes out of it. But that's what we're going to talk about this episode. We're going to pick right back up where we left off. And here we go, speaking with Sean Ali. It depends on the day, but one of the freebies I offer on my website actually is a downloadable list of journal prompts. My recommendation is to take one question a day and just answer the question. And if it's two minutes and a couple sentences, great. It's more about creating the habit that journaling becomes a part of your day. I know a lot of people who do not do it as part of a morning routine, but it's how they wind up their day. It's how they are kind of winding down. We all hear that we should turn off screens a certain amount of time before we go to bed. And so it's a great way to just kind of process the day and come back to gratitude, give yourself credit for what you've done that day. And so that's my recommendation is to start small because when you're trying to create a habit, it's about the repetition and it's about getting something out of it. And what typically happens is you answer one question, you're like, wow, that was easier. That felt good. And you answer another one. And next thing you know, you're spending 20 to 30 minutes a day journaling and carving out more and more time to do it because you're seeing the benefit of it. But I would say 10 to 15 minutes a day to start and everybody can find 10 to 15 minutes. I have taken my journal with me many times when I'm waiting in the line to pick up my kids from school or on my lunch break, just being able to kind of stop process, kind of be intentional about where you want to go next. I think it's a great kind of reminder. It's a milestone for me to be like, okay, I'm going to do this every day. And morning worked great for me just because I learned early on that if I didn't do something intentional to set the tone for the day, the day would take me away. Like I would just get caught in everybody else's emergencies, everybody else's needs and wants. And then at the end of the day, I hadn't done anything that I had really wanted to accomplish that day. So it lets me be really intentional about what we're actually doing today and making myself a priority, which is not always easy. Yeah, that just right. I very much had the same thing is that I would for a while I would get up and it was just get up, roll out of bed because I got up just in time to get the kids up and get breakfast done and lunch is made and kids off to school. And so it was just from start, you're going. And this was the time when I started to carve out a little bit of that time. I say, I'm going to get up 15 minutes earlier and just do sort of the same thing is do a little camera if I start out doing journaling, a little journal and a little quiet time and stuff like that. And it changed almost immediately. It changed things because then you start the day not hectic. You get at least a couple of minutes to sort of set your set yourself up to say, okay, what does it look like today? For me, it was very quickly. It was something I was able to say, okay, what is it that I really need to focus on today? And as opposed to letting it just, you know, you get go to all of that and I go to work and then I just suddenly my day would be lost because I would have everything else coming at me. Instead, I could sort of have a little more determination and say, all right, this is the direction we're going to go. And this is what I want to get done today. And it allowed me to shake off things a little bit more when it was like, oh, I didn't get that done. Well, tomorrow it'll still be there. Yeah. Well, isn't that the truth? Well, and I don't know about you, but I found that the mornings that I'm able to do this, get up just a little bit earlier than the kids do. I am more patient with them and it doesn't, it rolls off my back a little easier when they take, you know, three times as long to do the thing that I've asked them to do, or they need more reminders or they have a meltdown. It lets me be the more patient mom than I want to be that I'm not usually showing up as on the mornings when I roll out of bed, I've hit snooze three times and we're going straight into our day. I think that the more intentional start to the day, the day makes me feel like a better, more patient mom. Yeah. I mean, sometimes it is, you just got to, you got to take that extra minute to buckle up because you know, the day is going to be like, all right, let's make sure we're all set for this because we were about to dive into battle or whatever it is. And so having that extra, that extra moment. And then with that is something that you didn't bring up. I wonder if you, because you did sort of talk about how you journal at different times of the day. Have you found then that not only from having that morning routine and starting with the right sort of that right mindset and that positive mindset, have you also found yourself maybe breaking up sometimes during the day where you say, Hey, I need to step aside and do that and reset a little bit. Yeah. So I've, I've used it many times when I haven't done my morning routine or didn't get where I needed, you know, I didn't start the way I had hoped. And my day was getting away from me. And I wasn't very patient with my kids because listen, I'm human. I might tell other people like all the great ways to live your life. And sometimes it's easier said than done. And so, yeah, on those moments where I haven't shown up as my best self, which is the nice way of saying I lost my mind a little bit. I'm like, okay, hold on. Let's hit pause. Let's come back. And I've used journaling in those moments to kind of process what was I thinking? What was I feeling? Why did I have the big reaction to that situation? And it has been really helpful for me to kind of uncover some limiting beliefs about myself and what I'm like the thoughts that I'm thinking that are causing me to feel these ways. One of the, I'm doing this training course right now and it's called positive intelligence. And one of the things they teach is about the different saboteurs we have and all these ways that we self-sabotage ourselves. But they are presented to us from our judge mind in a way that it's going to help us. And what I'm usually realizing through the course of learning about this is my need to control things because that's my biggest one is usually telling me that it's going to be the easier way, but it makes life more difficult. And so when I can kind of let go of the reins and allow people to be people, allow other people to have emotions and not mean something about me, I'm usually better off. And one of the ways that's helpful for me to get there is to kind of write through it and to journal through what was I thinking? Why did I have that big emotion? So yeah, throughout all parts of the day, I have used journaling. Another thing that I think sometimes people, especially if they haven't done either, they sort of get confused where there's a difference or the relations is you wrote a book way back and I'm assuming way back, but you completed it, it's out there. But you also have been journaling. So how did you, while you were writing, did that sort of take the place of the journaling? Did the journaling become the writing? And maybe just in general, how do you see the difference between those two, particularly if you're writing on a regular basis where you're trying to put together a book? Oh, that's a good question. So I would say generally, no, the writing doesn't take place of journaling because they kind of are serving two different purposes. My book is very much a guide to helping women recover after divorce. So it's how do you put your life back together when things blew up? And how do you look at, it's a lot of shifting your perspective. So it's not what happened to you. It's where do you get to go from here? And so opening yourself up to the new possibilities and opportunities that you get. And so really it's a guide on how to do that. And so when I was writing that book, I had learned my process because I had written a novel, which is very different for me to do creative fiction writing versus nonfiction kind of logical writing. Although I talk a lot about feelings and emotions and all of the soft, feely stuff in that book, it really was more of a strategic approach. There was more of an outline. When I was writing my novel, I felt like I needed to wait for creative inspiration to hit. And then I felt like I needed three to four hours to just devote to like letting the story pour out of me. And that's just not really realistic if you're wanting to turn around a book really quickly. And so I kind of went down that path, finished the novel. But then when I was hearing the nudge to write this book, I approached it differently. And it was more like a set time each day on a regular basis to just sit down and write and kind of knock it out. And what I found was on the mornings that I had done my morning routine where I had meditated and I journaled, the writing became easier. So anything that I have to do in my life becomes easier and more flowy when I have taken time to fill my cup. And so I just have learned that those are the two things for me that are really important. And so it doesn't take the place of the writing, but it definitely complements it. And did you actually a quick question on that is, so you've written fiction and nonfiction. How would you compare and contrast maybe for yourself writing the two as far as it was one more difficult, was one, you know, did one flow more? And besides the technical side of, like you said, you sort of approached them differently, the actual content, writing it, editing it, that kind of stuff, how would you compare those two? So I think it uses different parts of your brain. So the more logical side of my brain is where I am editing. This is actually one of the things I learned in this writing course I took. And that was to do the active writing, you're creating something that didn't exist before. So you need to access the creative side of your brain. And I think that exists for nonfiction and fiction alike. And then when it comes to editing, that is the more logical. You need to separate. Don't try to do both in one session was what I learned because you're using different parts of your brain. So you need to devote your session, however long that is. I teach people that you can write a book in 30 minutes a day. So you don't have to have hours and hours and hours. You just have to make it a priority. And so setting aside a time on a regular basis was how I wrote the nonfiction book. So I think my approach to the writing changed. But I think it still is the same. The active writing is creative. The active editing is very logical, analytical. You're thinking about grammar and finding mistakes. And so being able to separate those as different activities became important. Then back to some of our original conversation, although this has been awesome. One of the things too is I want to go back to when you started out, as you said, it wasn't really a side hustle as more as you got into an entrepreneurial approach. So what was your experience with creating that new source of income or that new revenue stream? And was this something that was like, were you working full time and you did it? Or is one of these where you got laid off? You're like, OK, now I've got to go. Sorry, you get kicked in the butt. You're like, all right, I got to go out there and do that. I got kicked in the butt for sure. And I would say it was really scary to put yourself out there and say you're going to do this thing. The very first thing I did, this was before I wrote my book, was I started a sewing business. I'm a seamstress on the side and I had always sewn for my friends and family and for myself, home decor stuff, not really any fashion. Well, I went out there and said, I'm going to start an Instagram. I'm going to start this business and I'm going to start charging for my sewing. I think everyone goes through, I think regardless of the venture that you are considering, a new business, writing a book, any new thing, everyone goes through this imposter syndrome of, oh my gosh, is anybody going to take me seriously? Is anybody going to pay me for this? Am I credible? How am I going to be viewed as an authority? And so I went through all of that. And the sewing business was a really good practice for me to get out there. And I mean, the biggest part of doing something new is telling people that that's what you're doing. And so the practicing of telling people that this is my business and this is what I charge was a real big part of that. And so I think for me, there was a lot of limiting beliefs around earning money, not through a company paying me to do a job. And so the sewing business was kind of the first venture. And it did feel like a side hustle. I had kind of a nest egg sitting there waiting for me. And so kind of took care of things while I could test the waters. But I quickly realized that I was not going to get rich by charging per hour or per project to sew some stuff for people. And so I thought, well, I'm either going to have to start charging more or I'm going to have to sew more or I'm going to need more of me. And so that's when I started opening my mind up to what do I have to give? How can I build an online business? This whole idea of create once so many times really was appealing to me because that's scalable and gave me the ability to grow month after month after month. And there wasn't this stagnant peak or limit to my learning potential. So one thing led to another thing led to another thing. Anybody that gets into business and is trying to further themselves, there's a certain point where you hit that wall of I can only get paid so much per hour. There's only so many hours in the day and things like that. And then you realize that there is that's why everybody ends up. That's all of the gurus in that are always going to point you to digital goods and products and things that things that you can use other people's time or create it once or whatever. It is so that now it scales to as big as it needs to scale without wearing you down, taking a sliver of you every time you scale that out to that next sale. Yeah. And I think it's interesting. I've worked with a lot of different people. One of my clients recently, she was trying to determine how she could scale her business. So she was offering consulting to doctors and it was marketing guidance that she was coming in and just consulting and she would create a contract for a certain amount of time. But she was essentially training her knowledge for her money and her time, you know, and she could only talk to so many doctors in a day or have so many clients at a time. And so we talked about creating an online course for her so that I said, what are the repeat conversations? What can what value can you provide to a doctor without stepping foot in their office and knowing how you can help them, knowing what they should do and add value before you even work with them. And she was like, oh, well, that's easy. And she listed off all these things. And I'm like, that's your online course. The things that you're doing on repeat is where you can record at one time, sell it as a low dollar, you know, mechanism to acquire new clients. Then when they need help beyond that, that's where you go in and offer your consulting, your high dollar ticket, your high ticket item, you know, so that you're spending time on the more creative stuff that's more fun and more customized to their business. And you've already added value to to get them in the door as a client. Yeah, that's I think that's something people don't think about as much when they think about sort of the funnel type of approach into that is that you can you can actually do quite a bit in the the entry parts of that funnel funnel where you're in, you know, you're generating income and you're serving a purpose because there's it seems like in almost any business, any product, there's sort of tears to it. There's some people are like, I just need particularly training. It's like some people are going to say, I just need 30, 60 minutes. I need to just understand this enough and I need to talk to somebody. It's like if you've got a legal problem and you've got a lawyer friend, it's like I'll buy you lunch just to like pick your brain for a little bit. And that's exactly it. So pick your brain things that maybe 80% of the people out there that would hit your site would only want that. And you're like, good, I don't need to spend time with you. I don't want to invest in you as much if you're not really invested in it. You just you want to come in and get a solution, walk away, then good. When when. But if you want to master it or if you want somebody to really come in and do it for you, OK, now you're you know, that's a different that's a different level of want. It's like going into a car lot and wanting some beat down like used car because you just need to get from point A to point B without it blowing up. Versus I want to look super cool and have, you know, have my whole family go with me or whatever it is. The variations of that product. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I think it's interesting to be able to apply that to different businesses and talk people kind of through how to visualize that in their business and what they're doing. But I think you're right. Like most entrepreneurs get to a point where they're like, there's only one of me and there's only so much you hit a peak. There's only so much I can do until I shift what my approach is. Yes, sometimes I if it's it's that whole that old if you keep doing the same thing, you expect the same results or you expect different results. That's that's the definition insanity. But if you change stuff up, then you know, then your results are probably going to change or they will. And it's just you find the right changes to get the right results. Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I think that talks back to our original point is this idea of self care. If you keep approaching life the same way, you're going to end up with the same results. So when you're ready to change it up, that's when you start taking care of yourself. You spend a little time to be intentional in the morning. It sets you on a different trajectory for sure. Now, this is self care is a is a interesting area because it seems like and this is I'll get to a question on this. I promise a lot of people that get interested into self care. It's actually after burning, you know, it's like they found out the stove is hot. They've had a, you know, mental breakdown or they've they've hit some rock bottom or something like that. And it's usually people obviously then are going to be later in life or that, you know, they were young and just had some tragedy or something like that that that smacked them in the face. So what would you what would you say to somebody that is like, hey, I'm good enough? I'm, you know, I'm young, I'm immortal, whatever it is about them that they say, I don't really, I don't need that stuff. That's that's not going to matter to me. I usually ask them a question. How's that working out for you? Because if they're honest with themselves, they're going to say, well, I mean, some days it's all right. Some days not so much. Are you getting where you want to go in life? Are you content with where you are? And honestly, some people are and there's nothing wrong with that answer. So I will say if if I'm talking to someone and they're like, I'm good, nothing's wrong. I don't need to change a darn thing. I'm like, that's amazing. Carry on. Like, you're not my audience. Like the people I'm working with, they want more. And we talk about how to make that happen. Now, it's part of that conversation sometimes is, is, I guess, basically enlightening people to something that there that there is more that it's not just like, you know, I know I've talked to a lot of people that that's there is some aha moment at some point where they said, oh, I don't have to work 80 hour weeks and grind my way through my my younger years and eventually hope to retire in a little place when I'm, you know, when I'm old and decrepit and I've wasted all of my my energy on somebody else. Yeah, I think typically it's that moment where you realize you realize it is possible to have more. I think getting people to believe that it's possible is the biggest hurdle. So like I work, I have a dating course and I work with women after divorce, getting back into the dating scene and how how do you navigate that again intentionally with the purpose of attracting your perfect match? Well, part of the thing that's standing in their way, because a lot of the ladies that I work with, they they are the problem. Like, what am I doing wrong? What is this? It's that you think there's a problem or you it's it's the way you're looking at the situation that typically has to change. And so I think that's the aha moment. That's that perspective shift that you're talking about is just being able to say, oh, wait, I do want more. Oh, or it is possible for me to have this thing. I think it's just giving people permission to dream big. That's one of the chapters in my book is called Dream Big. And it's really just giving yourself permission to want what you want. Actually, that was something I didn't swing back around to earlier, but it's something I found in journaling. When you get into those, those reflective moments like that, particularly you've got that, you know, sort of like the things that you're thankful for. What are my what was what did I accomplish? What do I want to accomplish? And things like that is it's actually very I guess very educational about yourself, as I think you can find over time. It's like, oh, this is what I want. Like you said, you had your, you know, your sort of your ideal man and you have those things to be able to think through those. It's I don't know how many times I've had those kinds of, you know, well, where do you want to be in a year or five years or how is this going to look when it's done? And you step back, you go, I hadn't really thought of it that much. I just thought I had this like very, you know, amorphous just, oh, things are going to be great. But then when you start digging into it a little bit, then you say, oh, wait, well, this is going to be there. And this is something I really want. And then you go, oh, wait, I could have that today or I could change some stuff. And I don't have to go there. I can actually get there from here and have an easier route. And now suddenly it aligns up. You know, everybody, one of the things you hear a lot in, particularly in product development business is the whole your why is like, why are you doing this? When you can get to that, it is a game changer, I think. Yeah, for sure. And I think one of the very first questions that people have to sit with is what do you want, whether it's business or personal life or whatever. What do you want? Because I think a lot of people don't even take the time to think about it. Like you said, like just kind of hope that things will work out. But giving yourself the time and space to actually think about what do I want? What do I want it to look like? What do I want it to feel like? And being really specific. I think especially when we're talking about dating, people think, oh, gosh, I can't make a list. Like that's going to be this unicorn of a person that doesn't exist. And I'm going to be too specific. And I'm like, no, you get what you ask for. You get what you expect. So be specific. The more specific you are, it's going to take a little bit more navigating by the universe to make it happen. But you get what you expect. And so, yeah, I think being able to stop and say, what do I want? I'm often reminded by that people in my life asking me the same thing. Well, what do you want? I'm like, oh, I forgot to answer that for myself. Yeah. And sometimes it's what you don't want to, especially I think that's in the people in the dating world where it's like, you know, if you've got that list, then you're like, then the things that distract you, like, maybe they're really attractive, but they're a jerk. And you're like, I'm not going to deal with a jerk or I'm not going to deal with somebody that's a, it could be, it could be small stuff. It could be stuff like I can't stand Dallas Cowboys fan. So it's like, whatever it is, as you pick it, it's like those things though, do add up. And I think that's in anything we do that's intentional, whether it's, whether it is like something, and especially big stuff like, you know, planning a business or somebody that you're going to date and eventually maybe marry and have a life together. Those big things, I think that's a great habit. Like we're talking, you know, getting into that habit of just doing those little things of saying, well, what is this going to look like? What do I, do I really want that? And if I do, why do I want it? Because maybe, you know, maybe I can find ways and it's maybe suddenly that unicorn is not, maybe it's somebody that's that you realize, oh no, that's realistic. It's not unreal for me to think that this is out there and for me to pursue it. Oh, for sure. And I think, I keep coming back to the dating thing, but I think a lot of times people feel like they're trying to find this needle in a haystack like this one. And, and there's this misconception, this myth that we're all kind of going after the same type of person. I was, I took a dating course. I participated in this workshop one time and every person in the room went around and described their perfect person and kind of what their ideal mate looked like. They were not the same, not one of us described to the same person. And I thought it was such an eyeopening experience for me. Cause I thought we are not all trying to find the same person. Like we're all looking for different things. And this unique person is unique to me, but not the same as these other ladies in the room. It was really kind of cool, but I think you're right. Like it's important to think about what you want, but what you don't want is equally valuable. So being able to kind of define that is also very helpful. And the one thing I come back to time and time again, I'm like, you can always change your mind. So you just go down the path to start a business. And it turns out, because how many times do we get the job we want? And then we're like, well, wait a second, this isn't quite what I wanted. Or I thought it would be a little different. You can change your mind. You can go, because once you find out you get what you want, you get a new perspective, you get new knowledge, you gain new wisdom. And so you can always change your mind. Well, that's like, yeah, that goes back to that business thing. As you, you know, you say, oh, okay, I'm going to go start, let's say, for example, someone to start a business or sewing business and they want to go something, get into that. And then you realize that, wait, this is not all I made it out to be. Is it, there's some other things that this is good, because you can be in a job that you really enjoy, but you realize, no, there's something better. And so you sort of like reset your, your scale there at that point and say, oh, wait, now there's some other stuff I want. And now that I've gotten these knocked out, I found that those are real. Well, maybe these other things can now become, you know, get into reach. Yeah. And I think one of the other things I've talked, I talked about this recently on another podcast was this idea of finding our life purpose. I think there's another misconception that our life purpose has to be our career. And that's not always the case. So you can be completely content in your career and it's not your life purpose. As long as you are still going down the path, whether that's a hobby or some sort of philanthropy where you're volunteering at charity, whatever the thing is, as long as you have the outlet and you're, you're following your purpose, that's what matters. It doesn't always have to be the thing that earns you money. There's so much we could talk about, but I'm, I want to be respectful of your time. And as you said, we could talk for days and I think we can, and I don't think we've even touched on a couple of things that I thought we would talk about. So I do want to respect your time. And now that after everybody's now been introduced to you for an hour, anybody that's out there and says, hey, I think I really need to spend a little time with Shawna and figure this out. What's the best way for them to get ahold of you? Two different ways. My website is shawnalee.com. That's where you can find any one of my programs, my freebies, that journal prompt download is there. That's the best place to find out whatever I've got offered at the moment. Links to my books and all the things. In all of the social media channels, I am at simply Shawna Lee. So Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, you can find me there as well. Perfect. That's nice. You don't have like eight different, social names. It makes it a lot easier that way. All right. Well, I'm going to let you get back to it. Thanks a whole lot for joining us. Thank you so much for inviting me. It was such a pleasure. I enjoyed it. And that will wrap up our conversation. I want to thank Shawna for a great time for her spending some time with us. Great conversation. As I said from the start, this is somebody that's maybe not a technician like us. She's not a programmer, but you listen to her story, you listen to how she approaches work, you listen to the kind of background that she's got. Some of us also have had that same thing where you got laid off or the company wasn't able to meet budget or whatever it was. The next thing you know, your sort of, your butt's kicked to get out there and go do something. And then you have to scramble a little bit more because you weren't really ready for it maybe. Even if you think you were, when suddenly the rug gets pulled out from underneath you, now you got to scramble. Now you got some stress and pressure and those things can stick around if you don't take care of yourself. So I want to thank her for some great suggestions and that conversation. As always, you can check the show notes. You can see those links. If you want to reach out to her, maybe get some help there and see where she can work with you to help you be a little better at what you're doing and make sure that you're planning stuff in a way that your goals, your roadmap, your career is lining up with stuff that is actually going to make you happy when you get to that point, as opposed to getting to the end and saying, oh crud, this is not what I wanted. But hopefully that at least for now is not going to be a problem and you are going to get to the end of your day and have a good one. So go out there and have yourself a great day and a great week and we will talk to you next. You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon, anywhere that you can find podcasts. We are there. And remember, just a little bit of effort every day ends up adding into great momentum and great success.