The Best Buyer: A Framework for Attracting Great Clients

Welcome to Building Better Developers, the Developer Nord podcast, where we work on getting better step by step, professionally and personally. Let's get started. Well, hello and welcome back. We are jumping into a new interview. We're going to speak with Drake Nightingaleser tonight, today, whichever, I guess, generic part of the day it is that you're listening to this. And we're going to get into some, it's essentially, it's, and he's going to bring this up, it's sort of timeless advice. This is the kind of stuff that just makes sense regardless what season you're in. We're going to talk about some of the big things we're going to talk about is we're really going to focus on things like what is your best buyer? What is your ideal client? How do you work into that? How do you adjust your business, your approach, your, and this is whether it's a client or whether it's a job. If your job's shopping, if you're looking around, what is it, or even if you're thinking about looking around, what is it that makes, that will make your perfect job your perfect job? And that's what we're going to talk about is we're going to get into this. Drake's got a great background, a lot of good stuff that he's going to be throwing at us. So rather than listen to me, let's go talk with Drake Nightingaleser. All right. We're back speaking with somebody new. Today we're going to be speaking with Drake Nightingaleser and we're going to talk about next level. Like, you know, we're going to talk about building on what you have. It's one of those that we're going to get into lots of different areas, things about like a little bit about maybe like your marketing and things like that, but really it's more about like, let's say brand kind of stuff. And it's finding the right clients and figuring even out who those right clients are. And so rather than try to say it better than the expert, I want to invite you, I want to welcome you onto the show. And if you want to tell us a little bit about yourself, Drake. Awesome. Yeah. Thank you so much for the introduction, Rob. Really grateful to be here. But the stuff we're going to talk about today, before I dig into kind of what it is, you know, I just want to address the fact that it is the beautiful thing about it is that it is timeless. It is classic stuff. So much of what we're sold in the business world is like the next new marketing technique or, you know, all these tangential things that solve symptoms in our business and don't address the root cause. And the stuff that I do is really focused on getting in there and dealing with the foundational things. So whether or not you're just starting out, whether or not you're trying to take this from a side hustle to a full time gig, or you already have a team of 10 and you're trying to figure out how to break through the next barrier, it applies to everyone. So a lot of what I do is based off of the concepts that I laid out in my book, The Seven Steps to Attracting Great Clients, which funny enough, the first printed copy just showed up here today. So that's exciting. But it's really all about figuring out what you want to build your business around and how you want to approach things from a standpoint of who are you going to work with? How are you going to sell them that works really well for your business that's built around your strengths? How are you going to, you know, focus your message around that particular individual, creating amazing experiences for them, really focusing on delivering results to them in a unique way that's built around your strengths so that you create this unique machine that not only is fun and enjoyable for you because it's built around your strengths and our strengths are generally things that we like doing, but it's also going to end up being something that you can charge well for and that your competition just kind of looks at you and says, I don't even know how to compete with that. Talking a little bit just because it's right there in front of you, what would be like a couple of steps or, you know, I don't want you to, we don't need to go through all seven because hey, you know, we need to buy the book, but you know, it may be like one or two that are particularly if you're really just stepping into this, you're like, you know what? I'm stuck. I've plateaued a little bit. I want to grow or maybe it's like, I'm just not happy with my clients. I love my work, but maybe my clients are not the fit that I want. Maybe they're causing me too much stress or too much headache or something along those lines. Like maybe take that. What's that first step or two that somebody should take to find those great clients? Yeah. So first step that I would say is actually step number two, which is your best buyer. This is really focused around, this is something that I initially learned from Frank Kern. I don't know if you're familiar with him. So I first learned it from him and it's really about viewing your, who you want to focus your marketing on and try and get as a client through a different lens. So traditionally we're taught this avatar exercise where we're asked to really vaguely hypothetically describe who we think we want to work with. You know, how old are they? Where are they from? What do they do? What are they like? What are they not like? What pains are they experiencing? All these kind of arbitrary experience like questions that help us with marketing messaging and are great when we actually know who that person is, but they don't actually help us figure out what a good client for our business looks like. Like what is a good, easy to work with, high paying client that's easy to deliver results to look like for your business? So you know, step number two is about looking at it through a prompt that's a little bit paradigm shifting than the whimsical nature of the avatar exercise. And it's essentially, you know, if you could only get paid after you delivered the promised result, what would that person have to look like in order for you to be willing to take on that bet? And from there, we look at listing out three different characteristics and three mindsets of that person to encapsulate that. So we're capturing the characteristics being the situational. What is their situation to look like in order for me to be confident that I can come through for them? And then also mindset, like how do they think that makes me sure that this is somebody that is going to be easy to work with, easy to deliver results to? And that really just shifts things and gets you thinking in a much different way, more about who does your business need you to be bringing on as clients, not who do you whimsically want. And it sounds like a little bit as you're as you're describing that is that it's while. The end result may be that it's it is a higher paying customer because it's because of the value, but it seems like it's really more focused on the this is the person or this is the customer, the client that you can provide the most value to. It's the it's the project that you you can knock it out of the park. It's not we're like, yeah, I can do it, but it's going to be, you know, we'll see how it goes versus like I can do this and just like you sort of as you refer to as a competition or like, wow, I can't believe you did it so well. Is that sort of where where you take it? Yeah. And one of the really unique things that happens when you look at it through that lens, the person that gets the most value from what you do probably gets the most value because, you know, it's focusing on the thing that you're you're best at, the things that are you have a lot of strengths in your built into your business around. And that's also normally the things that we like and enjoy because we tend to like the things that we're good at, not the ones we're bad at. So it's one of those things that also ends up with you just finding more joy and fun in your business when you focus on selling to those. So since you and we have talked about, I think a lot of people have have heard or come across the idea of the know the avatar for whatever their product is or their services. Where do you see because you see them differently? Where do you see where maybe going the avatar route will take you, I guess, in a in a different direction maybe than what that ideal client is? Well, I think the avatar is really great for marketing materials to some extent, but the best buyer is really who we're focusing on selling to. It's the person like so like I I tell people there's a tracker sheet that I built for them that tracks these six characteristics every time you make a sale. I want you to go in and mark whether or not, you know, this person is going to be able to match the three characteristics in the three mindsets and we're going to score it because it creates a conscious awareness of who's coming into your business. So using the best buyer for who you're selling to is really good. It's also very good to bake all those six things into your marketing messaging. The avatar is really kind of more. The extra marketing fluff that you build around those six things to try and find the next right person. Because all those little details, especially for people who are starting out or don't have a lot of clients, it's really easy to look through the best buyer lens and know who's going to be good for you to sell to and who isn't. But when you're just starting out, the avatar is an entire guess. As you become more developed, you have more and more customers, you can start to understand when you look at the best buyer, which of my clients match up with that. Now, what is that avatar like? Now let's develop, let's build out all those other unique, small, tangential details around these people. Sounds like that it's a little bit of a, I guess I'm trying to think of a good term to do it, but the avatar is really more about brand awareness and impressions and things like that and sort of getting that name out. Whereas that best buyer is really like, this is who I expect is the person that they're going to be aware about and they're going to click buy. That this is the person that they're going to be aware of. I'm almost saying, I guess, and as you describe, it's almost like a natural growth as you start with the people that your problem is like, the problem you're solving is exactly what they need. They need it, I'll give you bags of money right now to do this for me. And then because there are, there's always every product, every service, there's that somebody's like, got to have it now, I need it, it's life or death or something like that. And then you're like, I'm going to have to do this for you. And then you're like, I'm going to have to do this for you. But then you can expand out of there. There's people who are like, yeah, I sort of want it. And eventually you get to the people like, I'd be cool because everybody else is buying or whatever. So that's sort of what your thing is. You start with the people that really need it, that you're going to be most effective with, they're going to be most likely to be happy, most likely to sing your praises and all of that good stuff. And then it's like, hey, now that you've taken the ones that you know are the easy ones, or the more likely or the low risk wins, you can take that and use that to grow and build out your brand and your product. Yeah, essentially the best buyer is like the foundational elements that I know these people need to have. And then from there, the avatar is kind of the next layer. But without the inner core of the best buyer, the avatar is the next layer. The inner core of the best buyer, the avatar, especially when you're starting out, can be very hit or miss. Now, do you find that it is particularly people starting out? Do you find that it is something where that best buyer, and I do agree, I think there's several cases where I've been involved with it or known people that are putting that avatar together and that they just they struggle with it. Now, there are people I know they're very successful and they nailed it. They know down to like the number of hairs on that avatar's head. But like starting out, I think it is a struggle. Are you finding that the best buyer is something that's getting those attributes? Is that something a lot of people, they tend to be able to fairly quickly look at their stuff and say, oh, yeah, it's like bang, bang, bang. These are the things that that I want or that make that best buyer make up what that best buyer is. Yeah, because as long as you know what it is that you do and you're clear on what your product or service is, it's a lot easier because it's not this whimsical question of who do you think might want what you have. It's who are you confident that you can really do well in serving them with this offer? And when you look at it through that lens, these are things that are going to come innately. Right. So like when I looked at my offer and did my best buyer exercise, I was like, OK, so it's going to be easiest for me to deliver results to somebody who has a stable business, because people who don't have a stable business are going to be in scarcity mindset. And it's going to be really hard to get them to make these decisions because a lot of serving better clients so that you can charge more is about saying no to, you know, ones that it's about saying no to the folks who aren't a great fit so that you have more bandwidth to say yes to the ones that are. That's really hard to do when you're worried about how you're going to pay the light bill next week. Right. So when you're looking at it through factors like that, it becomes a lot easier to nail down what those things are. Like another example might be that they for me is that they'd have to be a lever of simplicity, because everything that I do is teaching how to simplify the business and streamline it around serving one type of clientele really well with with only one or two offers. If somebody wants to build the big, most complicated thing, and that's what they love, we're going to have a hard time together. Because of what I do. So it's looking at elements like that that are situational and mindset and figuring out what they are. And it's just inherently a lot easier to do that than it is to guess who might want what you do. Now you did mention the which is, I think, is a common challenge starting out the idea of where you're just like you're just trying to make ends meet. You know, you're where you you really can't you feel like you can't say no. Now, if somebody's in that situation, how do you or I guess in this case is a Is it something where you you would still find you can help them through that and help them move forward or is it more where you're like hey you need to like sort of get your house in order a little bit enough so that you can have that that freedom or that bandwidth to actually say okay now we can start saying no. And as part of that, does that make it is it a Like a sort of a do it in baby steps or something like that or is it more you're like okay now you're at a point where let's start you know maybe jettisoning the bad customer or you know solely focusing on good customers moving forward. Step number one is definitely to get your your finances in order. You know, I spent a long time in sales selling a variety of things from vehicle wraps to business opportunities divorce coaching and when you're in the selling environment like desperation. If you're if you're desperate people can feel it. It just makes them not want to buy and it's you end up making really poor decisions when you feel desperate as a salesperson and how you're going to handle situations or what you're going to say to them or what recommendations you're going to make. Or, you know, whether or not, you know, one of the big things that salespeople who are desperate don't do is Tell the prospect the tough thing they need here. Right, so In a very similar fashion business owners when they're really worried about how they're going to pay the light bill next week. They're going I I know I shouldn't take this job, but I have to. How do I not I can't not I can't not pay my light bill. Bill. I gotta have gas to get to work. And so like step number one is getting your your finances in order. One of my favorite stories. I don't know if you saw it, but an article came out recently with Arnold Schwarzenegger. He was talking about I think it was based. It was an article that was about a clip from a documentary that did, but basically he was talking about getting his start in Hollywood. And he said, you know, the biggest mistake he would see people in Hollywood make was not being financial state financially stable in trying to get their start in Hollywood, because then they would they were desperate and they would say yes to anything that paid. And he said the reason he was able to accomplish what he did was because he already had his brick laying business and his real estate business. So by the time his breakout role and Conan came along. He was already a millionaire when he said yes to that role and he'd been able that had bought him the luxury of saying no to all the roles that he knew that wouldn't take him where he wanted to go. So that sort of dovetails nicely into the idea of of brand in particular and the idea like a premium brand or being which we even alluded to a little bit before, like being sort of the leader of your your niche or your industry. What are some some steps, particularly in like the the modern world of just customers are getting stuff constantly they're getting emails or seeing stuff on web their ads, all this crap. What do you do? What are maybe some steps you can take to to really speak to that that best buyer to to sort of try to cut through that a little bit. Yeah, absolutely. As far as speaking to the best buyer, it's really just going through your your content and your materials, whatever it is, whether it's a landing page, a website, Facebook ads, like whatever it is that you're talking about. Yeah, absolutely. As far as speaking to the best buyer, it's really just going through your your content and your materials, whatever it is, whether it's a landing page, a website, Facebook ads, like whatever your content, your primary content is that's bringing in customers, going and looking at it and addressing whether or not it's it's speaking to all six of those things. Because when our messaging speaks to all six of those things, we're going to attract more people that match that and we're actually going to repel the people who don't match that. So that's step number one. But standing out in marketing, especially in today's world, I think is less about the specifics of who you're speaking to and how you're presenting yourself. A lot of a lot of people are, you know, trying to have really great marketing with mediocre products and services that come with mediocre experiences. You know, so many business owners suffer from over placement bias. There was this study done where a research company went to a design firm. I think they were architects and they asked all of their their employees who the best designers were, who the best architects were. And like 30% of their firm said that they were in the top 5%. So we have this tendency to think that we're better than we are when you focus on really improving your fulfillment to deliver well and focus on creating an experience that is just excellent for people. Because, you know, people will spend a lot of money on a mediocre product if the experience is really good. Sports clips is one of my favorite examples of that. But so focusing on those two things is really what's going to help you set yourself aside in your marketing because when you have a really great results that you deliver, you're no longer touting promises. You can just speak to the results. You don't have to say, we're so good. You know, these are our promises. You can just say, hey, this is the average result of the person who works with us. Is that something you want? And it hits very different. And it's less needy, it's less clingy, it provides perspective for people on the level at which you can provide for them. So that would be my take. But, you know, I'm not what you would call a traditional marketing expert. My expertise is more on the sales and business development side. So as part of that, you know, hey, is this what you want kind of thing? This is what our clients have experienced. Is this something that sounds like something that you want to experience? What are some things you can do to to improve that experience to make sure that that experience is something that that is going to be a part of your marketing experience? And that your clients say, yeah, I am so glad I did that so that you can use that as that reference and allow those results to stand for themselves. Yeah, absolutely. The number one thing is have a solid onboarding process. Regardless of what you do, having a solid process for bringing people from sales to fulfillment is absolutely key because, you know, sales tells them it tells them what the bar is for how you're going to operate in the relationship. How you onboard them is where they decide how they're going to show up in the relationship. So if you like so many companies, this goes back to over placement bias, so many companies go straight from sales into fulfillment and the handoff is all but nonexistent and the clients are left going. So what's next? What's going on? Do you need something for me? Am I supposed to be doing something? Where are we at? Am I waiting for you? Are you waiting for me? And they're just kind of hanging out there wondering what's going on. So when you have a really good onboarding process that helps them understand what's happening next, what the entire process that they're going to go through looks like, what you expect from them, what they can expect from you, how to get help when they need it, and just asking any questions. Just having a basic onboarding process that covers that is really, really important and sets the tone for how they're going to show up and how good of an experience they're going to have. Onboarding is the number one thing that most people miss. That last line is in a nutshell. It is amazing how many, I know for myself that there are products that I've gotten through the sales process and I've gotten into that fulfillment side of it and basically walked away even because it's been so bad or it's just, there's such a disconnect. And I think, and this is something that sort of leads into the next question, is this something that, in my biases, I have a feeling it's more of an issue in a service oriented type of a solution because it's not just, hey, you've got a box. But how do you see that being clear about that and some of the things that you can do to improve your handoff from sales to fulfillment with a product versus a service? Yeah, I suppose it depends on the product, right? So it definitely does lend itself more to a service because especially if it's a service, that onboarding process also gives you an opportunity to ask questions and figure out what's important to them about this project and what worries they have and what concerns. And so you can kind of get ahead of the game with them to make sure that you're really going above and beyond and hitting all the right things to make that particular client feel amazing. But with a product, even if you're just buying a car, like the last time you bought a car, you signed the papers, they probably handed you the keys and said, had fun. What if the salesman took five or 10 minutes and said, hey, so you bought a really nice car and I've spent a lot of time in there tinkering around with things. So if it's cool with you, I'd love to spend just like 10 or 15 minutes going through all the features in the car and making sure you know how to operate it. Like it doesn't have to be super, super fancy. If you're selling a product online, it can be some sort of a process to make sure that they know how to get the most out of what they just bought, even if it's something like a supplement. You know, because how many people would buy like pre-workout and take it too early before they leave? I really, I get caught on that. It's so often such a small thing. It seems like it really is. It's not investing usually a lot of time or money. It's just that little bit of extra can go a very long way in smoothing that handoff from sales to fulfillment. And we will pause there, but never fear. We will come back next week. We're going to have part two. We're going to speak with him again and get a little bit deeper into some of the things. Like what is it that we should be looking for and actually when should we take a look into making that move? So we're going to continue to get a great conversation with Drake next time around. Next episode, remember we're sort of going in an all-new episode. So we're going to continue to get a great conversation with Drake next time around. Next episode, remember we're sort of going in an alternating mode. So we'll have a special topic and then we will come back in two episodes. Not next episode, but that episode after that. We will finish up our conversation with Drake and then continue with special topics and interviews sprinkled along as we are moving our way towards the end of the year. We'll be here. Thank you for your time. As always, go out there and have yourself a great day, a great week, and we will talk to you next time. With the new podcast, we are there. And remember, just a little bit of effort every day ends up adding into great momentum and great success. One more thing before you go. Develop a new podcast and site are a labor of love. We enjoy whatever we do trying to help developers become better. But if you've gotten some value out of this and you'd like to help us, be great if you go out to developerneur.com slash donate and donate whatever feels good for you. If you get a lot of value, a lot. If you don't get a lot of value, even a little would be awesome. In any case, we will thank you and maybe I'll make you feel just a little bit warmer as well. Now you can go back and have yourself a great day.