Episode with Ali Abassi on AI

Welcome to Building Better Developers, the Developer Nord podcast, where we work on getting better step by step, professionally and personally. Let's get started. Well, hello and welcome back. We are back to one of our interview episodes. This is going to be part two of our conversation with Ali Abassi talking about AI. If you remember first time around, this is a guy that basically sort of stumbled into AI, found it was a very useful tool for some of the content creation and some of the things that he was doing gave him a great start. And then he basically said, hey, I can make these prompts, make things smarter and actually be helpful to other people. Next thing you know, he's got a site and we're going to continue talking about that. But we're also going to talk about how to use AI and do it sort of in an iterative approach to make it better and better and better and allow it to do what it does best, which is basically learn from what it's provided from your feedback and then give you something that is a higher quality solution or answer to whatever your query happens to be. But I want to seal all this thunder. So let's get back into our conversation with Ali. Grammarly is something I've used for thousands of years, it feels like, and some of those kinds of tools that are, they've always been there that they're sort of helping you out in the background and they've always had some level of like grammar and spell checking and things like that. And now you're starting to get the content AI is starting to pick up into these. And I can't remember what app I was on the other day, but it was something that was like an email writer or something like that. But then like you said, like Google Sheets, you've got a little plugin. How do you see those? How much of that value do you see coming of those versus actually going out to like a chat GPT or something else and digging into the prompts versus having that, that thing that's sort of like riding shotgun with you? Sure. I think the co-pilots are going to become very helpful. I haven't found them to be like the best at the moment and they've been quite glitchy overall, but I feel like that's going to change pretty quickly. And I think as they develop, I see a future where everybody has a co-pilot for everything. And I think like, I don't think there's going to be one, I don't think it'll be chat GPT as the one area that we go to. So yeah, I think it would follow you around. And I think every application would have some sort of AI embedded into it. Like the one that I'm thinking about is just monday.com. Where like they just implemented an AI button that when you click it, you just say what your goal is and it just puts all the tasks there for you. So like, say you put it on the website, it'll break down all the different tasks and create the project for you. I think if there was a task manager or a project management tool that came out that didn't have that in the future, I think it would be challenging for them to pick up traction. Oh, that's good. That's a very good point. You always get that a little bit of that FOMO or something like that of like, hey, well, this product does it. So if it's got any use and something like that, because everybody's always had templates and things of that nature. So now when you've got an AI that is effectively a templater, but it's now a smarter one, like you said, now instead of you having to like go type in 40 different tasks, it's like, boom, it's created at all. You're ready to go. And then those things can, I guess, can get tweaked as they go too. So you don't have to worry about like updating your template. It's doing it because it's got something in the background that's like, oh, hey, last time everybody that created a website, they forgot to deploy it to the server. So hey, now you've got a new task, deploy it to the server, things that they can learn as they go. I did want to change gears a little bit and switch back. So what prompted you, no pun intended, to actually build the AI for Work site? I mean, obviously you're a fan, you're digging into this. What got you to say, hey, I want to actually bring other people into this? Yeah. For one, after I got to the point where I had these prompts that I was using that were getting me just great results, I don't have an audience. There's no one I can share. I can't tweet it out to the world and expect it to go viral or be seen. And I knew I had to share these prompts because I knew that they would be helpful, which the feedback so far has been positive in that aspect. So, yeah, one, I just had to share it. Two, I have an entrepreneurial spirit within me and this wave of individuals who are going to try to figure out how to use AI in the next year is just going to be massive. It's going to be huge. And there's just not that many resources out there for employees, especially niche employees that I'm starting to see on my side. It's like administrators have a huge demand for figuring out how to use ChachiPati, but there's very few courses in that space. And so I want to capture a bit of that wave and build a business around it. Yeah. So is that where, and not to get any trade secrets out of you, anything like that, is where do you see this going? Because you've got a site, you've got sort of a starting point, a launching pad for this is where you can share it. Where do you see this going from your point of view where you want to take the AI for work concept and site? Yeah, for sure. So right now, the whole platform is free. Anybody can use it and join it. In the future, what I'm looking to build here is that as soon as you go on, you have a company page, you can invite your coworkers, you'll have a prompt library. And then anytime you use those prompts, it would take the data that you have on your company page, like your target personas, and then it would just implement them into the prompts so that you get personalized responses. But ultimately, I'd like to build a ChachiPati design for the workplace. And then if you don't have a team member in a specific space, I'd like to introduce AI agents in that space where you can start to hire virtual employees that do tasks. That's the end goal. That's a bit away, but I think just creating a database, like a company page where you and your coworkers can share prompts could be a good start to that. Now, currently, you track users. There is a log in and things like that. So do you actually... Does that benefit... Is that one of the benefits you provide to the users? That it keeps track of what they've done so now it can use prior prompts and they can do callbacks to them or they can expand on those prompts based on what's worked for them? No, the data is more on my end just because I wanted to see... I wanted to focus on professionals in the workplace, white collar professionals. And if I was to focus on that, I would need to know exactly what they're using it for. So I have a small audience of users just in real estate. And I could see the exact prompts that they're using for real estate, which gives me ideas on my end of what tools I can make to better support that use case or even software I can build around that use case. So the data is at this given moment is just personal use to figure out how individuals are using ChatGPT. I don't believe there's much value for the user at the given moment on seeing what they use, but yeah, based on what I'm seeing, most common prompts are being used for marketing purposes as the core one and then number two is sales. So I think that's one of the things that I'm seeing is that people are using scripts, ad ideas, Facebook copy are some of the bigger use cases. That's another thing. Are you seeing with your users, what sort of, we'll say, traffic or repeat business, I guess, is it... Do you see users... Because what I was saying is that there's a lot of people that are like, yeah, I took a look at it and that was it. Are you seeing more people are just sort of like dip a toe in, check this thing out or do you have more of your users coming back for more and sort of utilizing the, leveraging the prompts that they've got and saying, hey, I can use this on a regular basis like you do basically. I can make this a part of my routine. Yeah, I certainly have power users who are using it on a daily basis at this point, but I would say most people are logging in, seeing it and then not coming back for some time. They are, anytime somebody signs up, they get part of the news, they become part of the newsletter and I try to pack that with as much value as possible on how to use AI in your workplace, the tips, tricks and so on. And I'm seeing about a 40% open rate through that. So I would say the community is decently engaged and it would be my job at this moment to make sure that the tool itself is more usable. I don't think it's there yet, but it's definitely something I'm working on. So yeah, and that's, yeah, I think that's just one of those that's that growing pains kind of thing is you get started and then you're sort of working your way through it. And a lot of people in the audience have done that where they've got, you're creating something or have created something and there's always that initial, hey, it's launched, now let's get some feedback and let's turn that around to make a better version. Within those, do you have like, you said you sort of got your power users, you got your typical type people. Have you, do you do this just sort of like as a overall community, you're looking at things and seeing where we're going or is it more where you're looking at some of these power users, maybe reaching out to them and trying to figure out some, for like a better term, like some niches that you want to go to next or do you want to keep it very, because it is right now, it seems like it's very general purpose, even though obviously, as you said, there's certain uses that it lends itself to. But then there's like, I mean, you've got it set up that if I look at this, if I was somebody that had never seen, all I'd heard about was chat GPT and it may be useful. And I see this, it's like, oh wow, I right away get, I think it's like 20 different options of sorting to categorize yourself or it's like, oh, I fall into one of those categories. That's probably 95% of the population. Yeah, no, you got it spot on. So that was the intent would be that anybody who goes onto it, they would have enough of curiosity to see what others in their role would be using it for. And then the actual end goal with the way that I've set it up right now is really just like number one, the focus is on building the newsletter. I do want to build like a jam packed, really good high value newsletter that I would enjoy reading myself. And I try to get as much feedback from the audience on what that's like. And the newsletter business right now is an interesting one. It's grown quite rapidly. The space is quite flooded, but I'm very focused on the AI for professionals angle. And I think through that newsletter, which I haven't monetized significantly yet, but like the opportunities would be things like selling training to workplaces, selling courses or so on. So yeah, at the moment there, the newsletter itself has about 15,000 subscribers, which I see comparable newsletters in that space that have about like 30,000. They're generating around $10,000 per month just from the newsletter through sponsorships, which I think would be a great way to fund the development of the application over a period of time. Now with that, are you getting any requests from users for tutorials or training or things like that? Because I would think that would be something, particularly with that numbers, that you would start to see those kinds of things. Yeah. So because of the website, it started to do really well on an individual's TikTok. He wrote about, well, he made a video about it and it started to go a bit viral. And it got so many different clicks from Google because nobody was able to find the website so they searched it over and over. And then it sent all the right signals to Google and for automation agency. I'm now ranked on the first page. I believe I'm like the fourth or fifth. And I've gotten so many leads from that, where individuals have reached out and just said, hey, like I'm trying to automate my business. Can you provide guidance, consulting and so on? So that's definitely a route that I haven't invested in, but there's clearly demand for it. And then users have reached out and asked me to customize prompts for them. They've asked me to help them automate portions of their business or just advise them on what they can do. But yeah, that's not an angle that I tried to go after yet, but it is open. It's good to know that there is demand for it. Yeah. And that's I think that's one of the things that it's a snowball effect kind of thing is that you use something, particularly anybody that's been in technology, some technologies or platforms have just disappeared. You know, like Vine is probably a relatively recent one, whereas everybody was on it and then it disappeared. There's things like that, that, you know, it's I think that's some of the concern is is chat GPT or is AI, I guess AI will always be here in some way, form or fashion, but is, you know, is chat GPT something that's going to stick around as something's going to die out? And then when you get that confirmation that, hey, there's other people using this and that makes it you feel more comfortable that, hey, okay, this probably isn't going to die tomorrow. And is that sort of the sense you get is that where do you see the space in general moving? Do you think it is going to go to like a one provider kind of thing or is it something more where it's just going to be people are going to go sort of take it their own ways and go wild, wild west for a while? Yeah, I think every application is going to try to have its own AI in there. But if you take a look at the data, like under the age of 18, about 50 percent of people have tried chat GPT or some sort of AI in that space. I think it's Snapchat who's really trying to build that relationship with the Gen Z or to have that best friend who's an AI and try to build that co-pilot for life or that companion. And I think that's what the race is right now. It's who can be your core AI companion that you want to use for everything. So Snapchat has got the under 18 year olds covered. It's the largest player there. 18 to 45, I would say it's mixed with a little bit of everything. I think that's a place where Siri has potential to really do well. And Google now, these are ones that can improve and become more personable. But ultimately, I see that's where it ends up happening, where it's the fight for who gives which AI you give the most attention to because there will be do it all AIs that that we're likely going to have. And then over 45, it's about 5 percent of people have played around with chat GPT. That's a very small group of and a huge growth area. And I think having something you could talk to and the talks back in real time is going to be a huge game changer for that for that whole age group. Yeah, I think the as I've often referred to as like the person in the box, whether it's like the Google, the Alexa, the Siri, those kinds of those kinds of tools have sort of gotten there. I think they had the same way that that same progression. They were initially they were out and there were a few people that were early. And it's usually I think probably the younger crowd would adopt them sooner rather than later because it was part of their devices. It was something they were already accustomed to. And then it's it's sort of grown into the older ages because people are like, oh, I saw this. It's pretty cool. It's got some basic kind of functionality to it. Actually, you know, back to like cell phones, it's like, oh, hey, I can I can make a phone call. They're like, oh, I can keep a calendar on it. I can get email and those things grow. And it feels like A.I. is one of those that will do the same is that we've got some of these these voices, these these bots of various sorts that are and they've got there is some intelligence behind them. Everybody knows that, like, if you go on like a Facebook, then it will give you ads related to the person you talked to last week or, you know, the like Alexa or Google prompt you with, hey, you got this last week in your groceries. You want to add that again next time. And so I think people are starting to get comfortable with it. It's finding that maybe not a silver bullet, but that thing that really does drag it over it from 5 percent to 45 percent or at least or something like that, where you start seeing that growth to the point where it's it's going to actually bring in. And I think that's where you start seeing stuff like for business. There's a difference to have your, you know, your your copilot that's telling you about where to go for dinner tonight or something like that. I don't know what the younger kids because I'm not under 18 anymore. But what the kids versus if you're you know, you're an old fogey and you're really more about the professional side or something like that. Totally, totally. Yeah, yeah, I think you're I think like it's going to be about companions, the companion. Like there's a company out there called Character.Ai and the average user there is under 24. And this platform is allowing you to just chat with characters, so artificial characters. The average use the average time an individual spends on Character.Ai is about 27 minutes a day, which is 20 minutes more than they spend on chat GPT. So like the AI space around characters and companions to a degree, I think is the most interesting area for for how we're going to eventually interact with AI's. Yeah, that's so actually I just random questions thought up as we're talking through this is do you see and I don't know, you may not know the age demographics of your users very well, but do you see that there's a different in the approach difference in the approaches of the prompts for maybe a younger person versus an older person or maybe even as much as just how they get like a comfort in how quickly they adopt them? So I don't know, I don't ask about the age group. And I don't see the results of their usage of the prompts. I just see which prompts they click on. So yeah, I wouldn't say I wouldn't know the difference on that one there. That's just one of those again, because I'm wondering if it's if there's a that's where there's going to be some some very different, you know, the Gen Z types that have just always had that around them, but and worked in that technology bot kind of space versus older people that maybe haven't had as much time in it or haven't recognized as much. I think there's like everything else in this area, there's a lot of interesting areas to explore about how is this going to work and where can you find the best uses of prompts and also in the training side, it's like, what are you going to training, you know, maybe somebody is much more comfortable in that world versus somebody that's not as comfortable. So maybe there's a different level of how they would approach their prompts. So cool stuff. Definitely from what you're what you're pulling in. And I do see a lot of value in bringing these people in, checking out those prompts and massaging those as you go to realize that, hey, here's a better prompt. And particularly in the niches, that's going to be, I think, really, really interesting. Like you talked about, like your real estate agents. And I could easily see that from, you know, again, it's it's copy and marketing and sales of like, you know, how do I describe this room, how to describe this house, how do I describe this neighborhood and those kinds of things. Now with all of this, I'm sure everybody like me is like, okay, cool. This is awesome stuff. You want to check out your site. What is the best way for them to get a hold of you? Yeah, I would say if they go to ai4work.co, my name is on there from the contact section, you can reach out to me or on LinkedIn. My name is Ali Abassi, A-L-I-A-B-A-S-S-I, and I'm happy to connect and chat. Excellent. Good. And we'll get links in the show notes for all of that. So, I want to thank you so much for your time. This has been great actually talking to you. He is a real person. This is not an AI. So thank you so much for your time. Thanks for spending some time with us and spreading the word and for the work you've been doing on the prompts, because I think everybody that uses one of those and saves themselves some time can think wants to give you at least a high five for that. Awesome, Rob. Thank you so much. Thank you for inviting me. And that will wrap it up. I want to thank Ali for his time, for some great conversations, a very interesting time that we had there. Talking about something a little bit different. I know AI is something that's very popular and we have talked about it, but I think his approach is a little different from at least some of the ones that I've focused on, that I've talked about. Check out his AI4Work.co site. It's really one of those things that I think when you just jump on the page, start looking around, it is a great source for ideas. If you're into any sort of AI query management and prompts and some of those kinds of things, I think you can see where they can go. And if you're real new, it's also going to help you sort of figure out how to get started. What is this like? What's it about? Hopefully, you've gotten a lot from our conversation and you now have a better feel for where you can take it. But if not, check out his site and he's giving you some great starter prompts to get going with whatever your task needs to be. We're not done. We're going to continue moving along in our season. We're going to come back, obviously, next time. We're going to come back with a topic, a special topic, but then right into another interview because we are still bringing in some great people. These have been excellent interviews. I really enjoyed my time with them. Can't wait to share these with you. But until then, go out there and have yourself a great day, a great week, and we will talk to you next time. Thank you for listening to Building Better Developers, the Develop-a-Noor Podcast. You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon, anywhere that you can find podcasts. We are there. And remember, just a little bit of effort every day ends up adding into great momentum and great success. Please allow me to take 30 seconds of your time to talk about one of the things we're really excited about for 2024. We are going to bring back our masterminds and you can check out technologymastermind2024.com or you can check out our mastermind at develop-a-noor.com. We're going to get our groups together. We've got applications open today. There is an early bird discount. Jump in there, take a look at what we've got and make 2024 your best year yet.