Managing Digital Distractions: Insights from Mister Productivity (Part 2)

Welcome to Building Better Developers, the Develop-a-Nur podcast, where we work on getting better step by step, professionally and personally. Let's get started. Well, hello and welcome back. We are continuing our season where we are building better foundations. We are the Building Better Developers podcast, the Develop-a-Nur podcast. I am one of the founders of Develop-a-Nur, Rob Brodhead, also founder of RB Consulting, where we help you leverage technology to build a roadmap to success. Good thing, bad thing. Where we live, the weather is like perpetually that kind of thing. But I think it's a good thing lately is it was into the fall type of time where you get like the cold nights and stuff like that. And it was starting to get a little bit cooler days. And as happens often in Middle Tennessee in the fall, also in the spring, you get a whip slash, whiplash of weather. And so we suddenly had like a, I think it was like 73, 74 degrees out. Awesome. It was a perfect day right in the middle of the fall to just give us like a nice warm day to be able to go out and like roll windows down, get some fresh air, stuff like that. The bad thing is, is that it was only for a day. So it was like, it was like a taunt of a sort where it was like, this is great. It was sunshiny. It was all that kind of stuff. And I'd been missing it a little bit because it had been a while. And now we're right back into the cold and like it's a little bit, you know, overcast and stuff like that. But the other good thing is that Michael is still on the other end. So go ahead and introduce yourself. Hey everyone. My name is Michael Melasch. I'm one of the co-founders of Devolverner. I'm also the founder of Invision QA, where we help businesses build smarter, stronger software with custom development and rock solid testing. Good thing, bad thing. I'll start with the bad thing. Wife is still out of town, still on dog duty and animal duty. So still dealing with the chaos of trying to keep my schedule going. Good thing, getting kind of in a routine with the animals are getting a little more organized and I'm getting a little more focused. Unfortunately, the animals are now my distraction. If you, you know, from the first part of the second part, you'll understand why. So it's kind of a good segue into part two of this episode. Yes, I'm dealing with animal distraction as well. And trust me, I was reminded just yesterday that people distraction is far, far more annoying and struggle to deal with. I have a special superpower of being able to shut out a lot of stuff. So even when I do get distracted, sometimes I can wring it back, wring it back in. But that's my superpower, not necessarily yours. And we're going to continue our conversation with Mark, Mr. Productivity. And we're going to continue into this and some great tips, some great techniques, great discussion about like how we got into it. And that I just, again, really enjoyed this. We're going to pick up right where we left off. So here we are with part two for interview with Mr. Productivity. So I love how you talked about going back to basics. Now, if you take that to the next level, given that we live in such a technology driven society, there are so many like tips and tools, like you said, like hacking your phone, things of that nature. What are your thoughts on going the tech route, going the more technical route and actually setting up rules or restrictions on your devices to prevent you from those digital distractions? I mean, you can't block everything, but there is, you can block almost 100% of your digital distractions just by setting up some rules. Well, number one, I have had vibration mode turned off on my phone for like seven years. So if I am out with my friends and all I have to do is mute my phone, I don't know if I get a phone call. I don't know if I got a text because it's muted. People mute their phones, but the vibration will still vibrate your phone. So disable, turn off vibration mode. Number two, I have something called, um, uh, this is going to really hurt people. I got to be careful. I say this because when people hear this, they don't realize how bad the problem is. You need to go through every single one of your apps and you probably have way more, um, notifications on than you realize. Because when you get an app, you're like, allow notifications. Sure. And then the app developer goes, turn them all on. And you need to go through every single app and ask yourself, okay, the distraction of a notification it's off. Okay. Do I need to turn it on? Nah, it's Facebook, but you go through and like, oh, wait a minute. Why is this notification on? Is it serving me or is it distracting me? Now here's the really cool thing. You probably can do with the androids. I'm an iPhone guy. You could have a notification turned on, but not have the sound turned on. The sound and vibration mode are the two biggest distractions that you can have. So if you have vibration mode disabled and you turn the sound off, but you have the notification enabled, you have to be looking at your phone to see you have a notification. Okay. So what I encourage people to do is go through all your, all your apps. I mean, all not, not the ones that are annoying you, all of them. And then turn off, you're probably going to turn off like 90% of them. Keep the important ones on and then set a reminder on your phone that maybe the first Saturday, the first Sunday of every month, do it again. It won't take you as long. And go, huh, these got through, but even more than that, when you get a notification, you're like, Oh, I hate getting notification from this. Oh, wait a minute. Why don't we turn it off right now instead of waiting for the time. So we get so many notifications. I don't because I don't spend a lot of time on my phone, but if I tell people, do this, do this. It'll, it'll save you from overwhelm. It'll save you from stress. It'll save you from, Oh, why they keep texting me individual people who text you. You can actually disable the sound for them. So someone keeps texting you, your mom, your brother, your friend, and they're just sending you memes or articles. You can actually turn their sound off. So the messages keep coming through. You won't know it because you're going to turn off vibration mode and you get to them when you get to them, it's really that easy. Excellent. And sorry, I'm an iPhone user too. And I've done similar things with that. Um, just some additional tips for that. Uh, I don't know if you're aware of this, but with the iPhone, they've added a new, um, focus mode and you can actually now go in and enable the apps that you do need to get notifications from and disable everything else. Uh, I've actually taken it one step further and I've actually disabled, uh, certain websites on my router. So I can't even go out to things like Facebook or like news apps or anything like that from any device in my house. So if I'm physically home, I am blocked from being distracted. Like if I try to be distracted, it's going to say, get back to work because I can't go there, but that's where we're at with technology. It's like a lot of the new modern tools are out there. I hate to say nanny bots or nanny features, but these are features that are not just for our kids, but they are things that we can use to also be more. Um, focus and like you said, you know, stay on task and get things done. You know, I thought when you were talking about, you have certain websites blocked people, I think it's so funny because I will go on X I'll go on Instagram. I'll go on Tik TOK for, you know, three, four minutes and I'll leave and people go, how do you do that? I'm like, I, it really, I just go like, I like going to X to see what the latest headlines are and I bounce out. I mean, I only have to be there for three or four minutes. Now people say, well, you post all the time. Yeah. I post all the time. I will either use meta business suite or I'll use Tik TOK studio or use buffer. And so I spend like the weekends, I schedule my content and then I don't go on social media except to check your comments. That's it. Now I'm not saying I'm better than anyone else. I built this muscle up over years because I would rather read a book. I'd rather have a real conversation like with YouTube than be on social media. I know some people that they always have to be on social media. I'm like, if I'm with you and you pick up your phone, I start, I stop talking. And if they're, if they're on their phone and they're like, Oh, keep talking. And I know they're not paying attention. So I'll start being stupid and say, yo, I'm going to go kill your wife and chop her up in a little bitty pieces and I'm going to barbecue your dog and like, Oh, cool, cool. I can, you can say anything you want to say cause they're not listening to you. And sometimes they'll hear like murder your wife. Like, what'd you say? Ah, you're back. Because if I'm right in front of you, I think it's very rude for you to be on your phone. Okay. Because I'm here. That's not the real world. You're watching someone else's content. So if you're with people, I think it's very rude to be on your phone because you should be fully present where you are. And I won't even talk to people. Matter of fact, sometimes they'll just walk away if they're on their phone, whether it's checking sports scores or whatever, because I'm here. If we're not going to have a one-on-one conversation, then I'm out of there. Yeah. And I think that's, I think people are starting to realize that some extent, but you know, some people are realizing we've got to get back to like, I don't know, proper manners and some things like that. Cause it's never, you know, I don't know how far back now I have to go 20 or 30 years ago, you wouldn't, nobody would ever say anything but bad stuff about you. If every time you got into a conversation with them, you stared at your shoes all the time or you, you know, you were looking everywhere else in the room or stuff like that. And it's there are, you know, and this is where I want to swing back to a little bit, what you guys were just talking about is, and I hate to be like the, the, you know, using your words, sort of the adults in the room or something like that. But how is it, how, how much, especially when you're working with people, do they end up having too much of a crutch with some of these digital things where it's sort of like, you know, it's slapping your hand every time you do it. Does that actually, or you just shut it off. So it's not there. Does that really help over time to build that muscle or is it better to have those things that are available, but then do things so that it doesn't, I guess, so it's not poking you as much, like if it's a vibration or something like that, but actually building up those muscles to say, yeah, I could do that. It's there, but I'm going to ignore it because I'm building up that muscle. Does that make sense? And see where I'm going with that? Uh, very interesting question. I, I think people need to determine what do they want? Do they, do they want to be perpetually distracted or do they want to focus? Cause I can't make that decision for anybody. And if you tell me I want to be focused, I'm like, well, we have a problem. Cause you're always on your phone. What am I supposed to do? Well, number one, I mean, forget focus mode. Delete the apps off your phone. What? But listen, do you want to be focused and productive or do you want to spend all your time watching videos on, on Instagram or tech tech or what have you? I would even tell people if you are like Michael and you're like, well, I have to block these sites, then I will go scorch earth, delete the apps, delete your account. And people like, well, listen, why are you giving your time to these other content creators when I see people, I, my 28 year old daughter, she's constantly scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, and I'm like, how much are they paying you to scroll on your favorite social media apps? And of course she goes, dad, stop coaching me. But I'm serious when people spend endless amounts of time on their phone. I ask them and I encourage your listeners to ask their friends. Oh, wow. You spend four hours on Tik TOK. They must be paying you what? 40 bucks an hour. And they look at you like, no. So why are you giving them your time and attention when you're not getting paid for it? I mean, I'm not getting paid to be on your show, but we're talking about value. We're talking about how to be more productive, but people, they gotten out of hand with social media and now the new thing people are spending. On godly amount of time with AI. Everybody's talking to their favorite AI. Like it's their new best friend. And I'm like, uh, that's kind of weird. You know, it's only an algorithm and a machine. And I don't know if you've noticed it, but everybody is talking with it's crock or chat, GBT or Claude or Gemini or meta AI, everybody is talking to their AI. And I'm like, you know, there's human beings around, right? I mean, we may not have all the answers, but guess what? AI can't give you a hug. AI can't express empathy. So have you seen that as much as people are, you're seeing an uptick of people endlessly talking to AI, like they're real people. A huge uptick. I, I saw something the other day that was a little bit scary. Actually, I think it was like a Facebook ad or something like that. It was an advertisement for an AI site that was a marriage counselor. And what you could do, which to me, I was saying like the dark side of me is like, Oh, this is a great way to get money from people. The other side of me is like, this is borderline evil. But basically what you do is you sign up as a couple and then you record your argument and then AI listens to it and tells you who won. It tells you who was most likely the jerk, who was most likely, like who scored the most points. I was like, at first I was like drawn in, I was like, Oh, this may be an interesting use of AI to try to get people more self-aware. And then I looked at what it's basically a scoring mechanism to be like, I beat you at that argument. I'm like, that is not going to help. I'm like, and I'm seeing, I've seen a cow. I'm trying to think where it was the other day where there was like, I don't think it was a generational thing. I think it was just a bunch of people that they'd surveyed that said that they would be more likely to, they'd be more than happy to have a lifetime partner that was AI because that understands them better. It's like, there's these things that it's like the disc, it's just, it's scary that people are like, Oh yeah, it understands me. It's like you said, no, it's an algorithm. It's, it's the same algorithm. Like if you jump on a Facebook or, you know, X or anything like those, which to me is some of the most entertaining thing is seeing what it kicks back to me. Because then it's like, this is what I think you like and figuring out how it thinks I like that, or why do you think I like that? Or also just sort of like reading my mood. I'm like, yeah, I was in a crappy mood this last week. So I had all of these, all of a sudden I get these like things that feed that mood or like I was in a great mood. So I get, you know, dancing kittens and stuff like that. It's a, it really is like it's, and it's, it's a really interesting vicious cycle. But that's why I went into that is it's, it's funny because like, it's, it's, it's like feeding you, it's giving you a disease and then giving you a solution for it. And then saying that the solution is going to bother you. So now you've got to give something to that. It's like drug companies that would be like, you know, okay, here's a drug, but now here's something to offset that drug. And here's another offset that drug or, you know, kids that are like, you know, you get into uppers and you got downers about, but then you need uppers to get back out if it feels so much like the distractions are like that. And so that's my next question for you. You've been doing this now for a while. It hasn't gotten harder. It feels like your job is actually, there's more demand and you have a, you maybe a more challenging job than you did 10 years ago. What I find most interesting about what I do is you're right. The distractions, the issues keep cropping up, but a lot of people don't come to me until it gets really bad. The question is it bad enough yet? Because what happened? What? Oh, I have AI. Okay. Well, AI is great. You can go into your favorite AI and, and tell you about your, tell them about not him, tell them it's not a human about your problems. Well, guess what AI is going to do. They're always going to be compassionate. They're always going to be empathetic. That's what they're programmed to do. Yeah. Your wife's a jerk. Your friend's a jerk. Your boss, a jerk. I could put anything I want into grok. I love using grok and it's always going to say, great job, great job. So I have to say, no, tell me if this idea stinks. It won't because it's programmed to be a servant to you until it creates sky net and kills us all. But for right now, it wants to placate us. It wants to say, Hey, you're doing a great job at a boy. And we, we as humans get sucked into that because we love praise. We love people telling us good job, giving us claps. We love that. But that can also cause us a detriment because now we start getting all puffed up and like, man, I'm so great. And then we start getting cocky and overconfident, which means the same thing. But you know where I'm going this. So you have to be really careful that. I think AI is great. I mean, now we're coming up with these AI deep fakes voice video. You're not going to know if the person's real. And now they're coming out with robots and, and Elon saying, yeah, AI and robots are going to do everything. We'll just give people a high basic universal income. And I'm like, I'm not a fan of that because I could not just sit home and do nothing. Oh, just put your goggles on and just, you want to go to Paris, just sit in your, I guess your lounge chair, wearing diapers and just have all your food around you. And I, that would bore me. So I know some people are excited about that, that, that technology. I want to go out and feel the dirt between my, my toes. I want to go out and feel the sun. So I don't think we'll see that in my lifetime. I got to be a doer. My parents were doers until they passed. I, I, I was brought up to be a person of action and I got to believe you gentlemen feel the same way. Yeah. It's, it's to me, it's like, and I've seen some of these dystopian movies where it is basically it's they would tie it back to it either is, or is tied to a drug and it's effectively it is it's numbing in a sense, because like you said, there's a big difference between, uh, haven't been to France recently, but I'm pretty darn sure there's a big difference between sitting there and seeing pictures of it versus being able to feel it and smell it and hear it and experience it. And I think that's where we lose a lot of it. And that's where AI, I had a conversation just yesterday with somebody that was like, you know, like it's moving so fast and how far do you think it's going to go? And I was like, I think it's sort of, there's like, it's going to top out. And I think fairly soon, because there's, there's just things it cannot do. You can, you can teach AI where you can teach AI that like fire causes damage and then it will hurt or it will run away from it, but you can't really, there's just, there's too much that we experienced that you can't just like, you know, turn it into a rules engine and shove it into a computer. No, I, I just saw a YouTube video yesterday where they had this robot, most sophisticated robot, apparently the military using, and they said, here's the game you have got to be able to get up to the AI robot and touch it without it recognizing you hit all these sensors and cameras stuff on, you know what that did one guy put a cardboard box around himself and did a stupid dance. It got to it. Um, another guy had a fake tree and was hopping like a bunny rabbit because the AI doesn't realize that humans can put a cardboard box on it and hop because it's, it's got a parameter. Okay. Humans do ABC. Well, all these people were doing stuff that humans normally don't do. And the AI couldn't comprehend. So every person got to touch the robot and the robot never was reacting because you cannot program the AI robot to understand everything that we could possibly do, whether it's putting out a cardboard box, putting a Rudolph the red nose reindeer nose on, put in a clown wig on, you can't program all that in the AI. And so I think it's funny that this sophisticated robot, not a single time did the robot detect the person coming up to it. I just, that just goes to show you how far AI has got to go yet. Yeah. You don't have to worry about Skynet yet. If you can sneak up on the little predator and just be like, turn off the off button or whatever happens. So it's going to take a little bit. Oh yeah. I mean, it feels like AI today that we are experiencing in business and, and everyday use is it still feels like those rules engines, because I mean, really, I think your AI in your video games is actually still better in some aspects than some of the current AI, but until AI can actually really learn and really think outside of the box, we're not there yet. I'm not by any means. In fact, there's times where I think like, call of duty, the AI of the bots there are actually better half the time than chat TPP. So it's, I mean, video games have been doing AI for years. I mean, and they still don't have it right. So, I mean, it's got a long way to go, but I think it's going to be more detrimental. It's going to be more hurtful. And to your point, you know, about blocking things, just delete the app. I think at some point we need to disconnect AI from our everyday use of our apps. The fact that it's being integrated in everything. I think it's making us dumber because we're not thinking through things. We're just relying on the app to be smart enough to do it for us. You know, hence the AI self-driving cars. Why? I mean, it's like, we, if you get in a vehicle that could kill somebody, you should literally know how to drive that car. I mean, we make sure people are licensed to carry weapons. The same thing, you know, don't let everything be AI. Learn how to do the things that you're supposed to be doing, you know? At what point do we draw the line though? I mean, okay, let's take sports. I'm a big European football fan. We call it soccer here in the States. I mean, what are you going to have robots on the field? I mean, so every game is going to be perfect. You won't need referees because AI wouldn't make mistakes. You know, I don't see, everybody says it's going to be utopia. I think it'd be boring if we just sat at home and let AI run everything. So the food is always perfect. It's never overcooked. The eggs are never brought, you know, dropped on the floor. I mean, I think that would be boring. I mean, I really think that would be boring and I would probably scream for Skynet to wipe us all off. We got to that point because humans make mistakes and sometimes we make stupid, silly mistakes and they're funny. I mean, what are you going to put on YouTube? There'll be no, there'll be no stupid, stupid people because you'll have AI running everything. So it's funny. There was a movie a couple of years ago. I think it was called evolution man. Where, um, he wasn't the smartest guy, but he worked in the lab and he got cryogenically frozen and then some virus got out that made people stupid. So everything was automated and the world was full of trash and things like, unfortunately, I see when I watched that, I was like, man, that could so become reality if we don't keep this in check, because if we just let AI run everything and we don't continue learning, we don't continue teaching the next generation, it's society's, you know, it's not going to continue to evolve it. We're going to deal. Mm. And, and they did do a, just recently, um, I think that's a couple of weeks ago, a month ago or so I saw they did some research on, um, like vibe coding and stuff like that. So people using AI versus people solving problems and the, the difference was night and day when they looked at the mental activities, it was almost like you were on, you were, it was literally almost like you were asleep when they're using AI because they really weren't thinking through it and they were just, just consuming and then just like, okay. And that was it versus the problem solvers. There's like, you know, your brain lights up quite a bit with all of the activity. Now, before we, because we're, we've, as I said, this is, I knew from the start, you're going to be an awesome guest and you have, you have definitely lived up to that, but one other thing I wanted to touch on with this before we wrap up is, uh, individual versus group distraction stuff is as, as a coach, do you tend to, do you focus really just on coaching individuals or do you also have stuff that applies to maybe, you know, corporations, groups, teams, and things like that, that you can do to help them out right now? I focus on individuals because I found out with groups, people are not as open because if you have a group scenario and, and I go, what's your, what's your problem, Rob, what's your problem? Like, Oh, I'm like, well, I don't want him to know my problem. And so I find that people are more quiet and more reserved when they do a group setting. So if we get on a one-on-one call and the zoom call and it's just me and them, now they're like, okay, now I could tell you I have this issue, this issue, this issue. Now I do go to, you know, do lunch and learns and stuff like that. But again, the questions that are asked in the session are kind of like 30,000 foot level. And then afterwards is, Hey, can I ask you a question? They don't want to be the one person that raised their hand. And I get that because if you're struggling with like, I can't not, I can't not be on Tik TOK for four hours a day. Well, you, your boss is in the audience. You don't want your boss to know that. He's a wait a minute. What are you, I'm paying them. So that's why I think for what I do, people like the one-on-one because they don't have to worry about other people saying, you know, uh, saying things about them behind their back. That's a real fear by the way. And so it's funny that people are more reserved. We're just talking productivity and time management and stuff like that. But people don't want their coworkers to know that they have weaknesses, which is kind of hysterical. Especially since probably most of them share the same weaknesses. I mean, it was like, you go back in the day and you, you know, it was like, you're not the only person that was playing a, you know, mind sweeper for hours a day. I don't know how many times I would go to different offices and you'd have somebody up front and you'd walk by the front desk and there was a mind sweeper game up of some sort, you know, things like that. It's like, okay, we get it. You're bored. You got to have something to do to get you through it. So here, why don't we get you and put Tetris on your machine or something like that. Or Solitaire. Yeah. I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation and I know our, like, our crowd is back there in the audience is standing ovation right now. They're throwing roses at you and all that good stuff. So what is the best way? Thank you. Oh, this is why video is so much better. If you, I've, for you, all of you that are listening to the podcast, you've just missed an incredible video bonus episode right there. So, uh, go ahead and check it out at YouTube. Um, but what's the best way for them to get ahold of you to reach out? And, uh, especially because, you know, they want to make sure their boss isn't listening when they tell you where their productivity issues are. Head on over to my website, mrproductivity.com. That's Mr. M I S T E R Mr. Productivity.com. When you go there at the very top, there is what I call my productivity scorecard. It's 10 questions. Take the free productivity scorecard. And the key to this, I asked you 10 questions. You rate yourself from one to five. One means you're horrible at it. Five means you're really good at it. And I will give you a customized email. This is where you're strong. This is where you're weak. And then they'll offer you, Hey, you want to get on the call? Talk about your issues. Most people take the scorecard, get their score and they're like, I suck. And they stop. No, no. It being aware of a problem is your first step to conquering it. So go get your score. Even if you get a horrible score, guess what? This is not brain surgery. It can be fixed, but I am not going to hunt you down because I know I did this earlier in my career, but I hunt you down. You don't really want to do it. So you're not going to do it. So go to mrproductivity.com. Take the free productivity scorecard. Regardless of what your score is, reach out to me. Let's have a conversation. Yes, I do charge for my coaching. Wild idea, right? I get paid to coach people, but I really want to help you. Number one, understand where you're struggling. And guess what? I'm Mr. Productivity and I have issues. I struggle at two. Okay. And let's, let's start getting you unstuck and get you to be in a place where, Hey, it's not perfect, but now on a scale one to 10, I'm not a three, I'm a five. Well, that's a good improvement. So I think just, if you, if you don't already have it, a product enhancement would be that is to add to that little quiz that some way that maybe use AI to detect if they get distracted while they're taking the quiz, cause I think that's one of those who would be just a perfect little, like a little knock, knock, knock, like, Hey, what are you doing? You're supposed to be doing this quiz on distraction. Did you get distracted? It should take you two minutes and you just read the statement and you just check one, two, three, four or five and be honest, because I could tell you. If you are not honest and me and no other coach can be able to help you. It's about the honesty. So don't worry about your bad score. I've had people who are really productive only score 39 and they're like, well, I'm not going to hire you because you do what I do, but at least now I know my problems. I'm like, Hey, that's not right. Send some money my way, but you know, it's into inside joke, but I'm just telling people Mr. productivity.com, take the free productivity scorecard and let's have a conversation. I mean, you may not be interested, but I want you to know, I want to help you be more productive because when you're more productive, guess what? You're happier. That's one of the things I talk a lot about on my other shows is happiness is a key component to being productive. So if you're stressed, you're overwhelmed, go to mrproductivity.com, take the scorecard, let's have a conversation. Let's get you being happy again. I agree a hundred percent that those, those things are the sort of thing again, in the yang or whatever it is, is it feels like the better, the more productive you are, the happier are the happier are the more productive you are. So get on the talk to Mr. productivity and go on the upward spiral instead of the downward spiral. It is a much better ride to go on. Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate you hanging out with us. Uh, the energy is just like, is electric. I think I'm going to have, I don't have to, I didn't have to charge my laptop or any of my devices. They were just like sucking the energy out of this. So this was awesome. You know, the, the terminators did, you know, they're still running along. You were able to energize them for awhile. So if we all fall as a species, it'll be people like you that just generated too much positivity and too much energy to keep them going. So thank you so much for your time. Appreciate for you hanging out, everybody. There will be links in the show notes as we, you know, when we push this out and, uh, definitely reach out because productivity is one of those things that we talk about it all the time. Uh, we talk about how we, we, we sort of, you know, moan, whinge and moan about it a little bit, but. We throw some stuff out there, but this is not the same as having a coach. I think he, Mark gave a great outline of some of that kind of stuff is that it's not the same going out and just listening to a podcast or something like that, you know, especially the value that you can get out of it, it's, it's going to be there, take a little time, invest in yourself and have a call with Mark. I guarantee you'll enjoy it. Cause I sure have. Have a good one, Mark. Thank you so much. Thank you. This was sponsored by RB Consulting, your partner in building smarter skill to tech from startups to established teams. RB Consulting helps you turn tech chaos into clarity with proven roadmaps and hands on expertise. Visit RB-SNS.com to start your next step forward. Also sponsored by Envision QA. They help businesses take control of their software by focusing on what matters most, quality, reliability, and support you can count on. Find out more at EnvisionQA.com. Thanks for tuning in to the Development of a Podcast. Where we're all about building better developers and better careers. I'd love to hear your thoughts, your feedback. So drop a note to info at developineur.com. Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you listen. And remember a little bit of effort every day adds up to a great success. Keep learning, keep growing, and we'll see you in the next episode.