The Entrepreneurial Mindset: Moving From Side Hustle to Company

Welcome to Building Better Developers, the Developer podcast, where we work on getting better step by step, professionally and personally. Let's get started. Well, hello and welcome back. We are continuing our season where we are, what the heck are we doing? We're going to have to restart this one. What is this season? Forward motion. Forward motion. It's been too long. Too long. Wow. Keep that on the video for everybody gets that bonus. I have not blown that in a while. I was just ready. I was so excited to talk to Antoine. I forgot what we were doing. That's almost as bad as when you forget to hit record. Back it up. No forward motion on that one. One more time. Nice. Nice. Well, hello and welcome back. We are continuing our season where we are building on our foundation. We're taking step forwards. We are getting those blockers out of our way as we start into what is now a new year and actually fairly solidly into it. We are the Building Better Developers podcast. We are developer. I am Rob Brodhead, one of the founders of developer or building better developers. Also the founder of RB consulting, where we help you do a technology reality check. We help you sit down and figure out what it is you got. And then what should you do moving forward? Good thing and bad thing. I'm really excited about our guest today. A lot of cool stuff. I think this is going to be a great conversation. It's a little different, a little more in the entrepreneurial side than we've been in a little bit, but I think it's going to be great. Looking forward to it. Bad thing is I was so excited that this is our second take for the introduction to this time around, which is very rare. Usually I just forget to hit record, but this time I totally flubbed it. But now setting all that up, I'm not putting too much stress on Michael to not do the same. Go ahead and introduce yourself. Hey everyone. My name is Michael Melash, one of the co-founders of building better developers, also known as developer. I'm also the founder of Invision QA, where we build and test custom software that eliminates the bottlenecks so your business runs smoother and grows faster. Good thing, bad thing. Good thing, the weather may be cold, but we actually have sunshine. So it's a beautiful day outside, but it's a bombing 15 degrees. At least we don't have the snow like we did last time. Bad thing, it's 15 degrees outside. We're still dealing with winter in Tennessee. Well now I already said, gave a little bit of a pump up here for our guests, but I'm going to let you go ahead and introduce yourself, Antoine. How are you doing? My name is Antoine Person. I'm an army veteran of 22 years. I started a business called Skillful Brands. And our focus is to help entrepreneurs eliminate the complexities of starting and running a business. Well, that's like perfect. One, I just got to start with, it is amazing to me, and this may be a bias or something like that. Everybody I talk to that is ex-military and you say, what do you do or what have you been doing? It is just like, it is like a perfect answer. It's just like bam, bam, bam. They just rattle it right off. So if you hadn't, if you hadn't said that you're ex-military, I would have wondered. I would maybe even have asked, it's like, do you have that in your background? There's just a level of presentation that that has makes you want to like, you know, snap a salute or something like that, sit up a little straighter. But I'm digressing. I want to talk right into like dive right into what is let's go deeper into that. What are the complexities of entrepreneurship and starting a business that you guys really focus on? Yeah, so one of the things, so my journey started a little bit before, you know, entrepreneurship. So as I spoke, you know, I spent 22 years in the United States Army leading different type of organizations. And when I transitioned out of the uniform, I brought a lot of the principles that I learned there to shape and build the businesses that I'm currently doing at Skillful Brands. My focus is to help entrepreneurs eliminate these complexities. And what does that look like? So I understand what it feels like to be stuck in your business. I understand the different things that you try just to see if it will work. So I would say the shift in my entrepreneur journey started when I realized that, you know, being business, being busy in your business does not build a business. You know, the hustle that you have, you know, I was hustling in my first business that I started, but I really just didn't have any structure. So, you know, I want to show entrepreneurs that, hey, you might need a mentor. You might need a mentor and you can't do everything yourself. You need help. You need to get guidance early on in your business. Now, wow, there's a I wasn't expecting that one. That actually took us now in another different direction. So what do you see? What is it? What should somebody look for in a mentor or getting that kind of guidance or getting somebody else to help lead them a little bit? You know, so I would say what I did, I started out, you know, being a real estate investor. And there were so many different gurus out there that, you know, had different systems and techniques that they were using. What I did is I went to a local real estate investor meeting and I found the smartest person in the room and I started hanging around that person, seeing how they operated with clients and how they did their business. And I tell everyone when you first start a business, having someone, I will say, hold your hand through the first transactions or first sales is very valuable because you it gives you the confidence to know that what you're doing is correct. And I'm not. And I think that play dividends for, you know, me and getting my confidence in the business world. And you see that also as a way to help you as an entrepreneur to sort of know what you don't know by allowing somebody else that you can look up to like that, to sort of see what you want to be when you grow up, I guess, for like a better term. Right. I would say, you know, the person that I connected with, I felt that they had the blueprint. You know, I did not know what I did not know. So I think when I connected with that person, I saw them do a few transactions and I was like, OK, this is how you, you know, structure this deal or this is the paperwork that you need. So it just gave me the confidence to, you know, be a real estate investor and then that transition to other business endeavors as well. So with the it's kind of interesting because what you're discussing is similar to what we've talked about in the past and what I've gone through because I relaunched my business two years ago and I went through mentor ish meetings. I went through like a co-starters program to kind of relaunch because I've been doing this for 25 years. One of the things you meant, you know, mentors and finding that person, were you looking more for like a business mentor to help you like how are they successful or were you trying to find someone in your niche to help you perfect what you were trying to sell or promote as far as your business? Yeah, that's so funny that you that you say that. So I spoke to another client last week and they were asking me, they were a new business and they were asking me, hey, do I need a mentor in my niche or do I just need a business coach? And my advice to that person is when you're first starting up your business, you're getting the right mindset and structure in place. It doesn't have to be someone in your in your niche because at the foundation of any business is the same. So some sometimes, you know, people put the wrong step in the wrong phase of their business. So I truly believe that a business coach is a business coach at the foundation level and have to have a strong foundation. All businesses need the same, the proper mindset, the proper structure and system. Dan, once you reach another phase of your business, then you may want to leverage someone else that is in your industry. Nice. I like that distinction because so many times throughout my career, I've run into situations where I found like the right person, but at the wrong time, it's like, yes, this is great, but it's not really helping me with the problem I have. It's helping me with that next problem or that next scenario. It is very interesting to hear someone else put it down that way that, yes, you need the business foundation first and then later. I really understand that and love that. Yeah. And I will say that, you know, that's why I preach framework heavily, because there are gurus out there, but a lot of times they'll help you working on phase two of three or your business in phase one. So, you know, they might have you working on marketing, building your website, things that are pretty because, you know, it's tailored to their business. But really you need to be trying to get the mindset and just the structure down in your business first. And that may take six months to a year. And I consider that the proof of principle for your business. Get the foundation done first and then you can transition into phase two. That's great. Yeah, it's a very solid advice. So based on your experience and the different scenarios we just laid out here, you know, working on the business, we're working on the niche. What are some of the things that you see new entrepreneurs or even experienced entrepreneurs struggle with or make the mistake with their business starting out? Or even, you know, they could be established, but they're still doing it wrong. They're not fully reaching their full potential of their business. All right. So, you know, just like when I started my business, just like other entrepreneurs, I had a full time job. I was also, you know, a husband and a father and I was trying to run a part time business, but before you know it, I realized that the involvement of running that full time business became a full time requirement. So, you know, I use that lesson as I move forward and I realized that most, a lot of other businesses are facing the same thing, you know, they're trying to build a business and they just don't have the right structure in place. So I will say that, you know, one, the passion that they have for that business is sometimes it takes a little more than passion because that passion can't ring your calendar. It can't close sales. It can't, you know, promote your business. So you have to actually get a good system in place. You have to find a great mentor and then realize that you can't do it all on your own. You need to hire a VA or someone that can help you actually manage your business. Now, what do you see as a, this is a little bit of a loaded question because this is something I actually preach and consult on on a regular basis. But what do you see is the the point where you need to get as an entrepreneur, you need to start putting those systems in place or and I guess sort of in the same lines. I want to pair this a little bit to give you a little more to run away with this is put systems in place, but also bring in assistance or VA's or something that fits that role. Yes. So the system that I currently have, I usually talk about because our businesses are different and what they want to accomplish. So, you know, I usually set a monetary value with a lot of the clients that I train. So, you know, proof of principle, I usually tell them up to 10K a month. If you want to make up to 10K a month, you really can do that on your own. Over 10K a month, you may transition to something different. So it may not be because mindset in systems are probably the toughest thing that I see business owners need to wrap their head around. Once they get the mindset and the structure right, if they are doing it correctly, following our system, you know, they'll be about a 10K a month. Once you get over that, you want to transition to maybe doing some type of marketing and maybe hire a VA to assist you. And I consider that as the leverage phase of the business where you really would need to maybe hire a VA. But up to 10K a month based on your business, you more than likely could do that on your own without burnout, you know, without confusion and things like that. I love that is where you get to that leverage point. I love using that, how you use that phrase for that, because I think that's great. I've often heard of it referred to as like going into growth mode or something like that. But I love the leverage because that that I think ties it back down to like you need somebody to help with that leverage. You need something to push on that lever. Now, how do you see you mentioned that it's entrepreneurs have a hard time getting their head around this, you know, this step. What are some of like the blockers or the mental challenges that they have in doing so? So when they listen to multiple different people, because it's more of a different systems out there. And you know, and what I what I share with a lot of people is a lot of the systems are really the same. But gurus put their own spin on the same information and maybe word it differently or give it a different name. So, you know, that's the first thing. Just understanding that like getting started is the main point. A lot of people are nervous. They don't get started, but getting started talking to other investors, just being on mentor podcast, being in mastermind groups and other groups. There's a lot of free tools out there that they can use just to get confidence in their in their ability to run their business. And I think that's one of the biggest things, just having the confidence to be able to move forward. Wow, that is perfect for our season focus of getting unstuck and moving forward is just something you've got to take that step. I highly agree. And sometimes it feels like just any step, just making that decision to make a step is better than no step at all is getting that for momentum. So is that something is it do you find that that's challenging? Is it usually something that goes over pretty quickly and entrepreneurs are like, yeah, that makes sense. I'm just going to go ahead and dive in. Or is there is it in itself a big challenge? I think in the in the model of business, the mindset is probably the toughest thing that entrepreneurs need to get over to actually make their business grow. Once they can get the proper mindset, I think everything else is very simple. The mindset that they can't do it all by theirself. They need to get the proper help. Once they realize that, I think they can have a successful business. But a lot of businesses fail because one, they don't get started or they just can't get the mindset of that. Hey, I'm actually running a business versus a side hustle. Oh, that's a that's a great transition, I think, of one that I think a lot of people in our audience can can somewhat relate to. Or that challenge is and I love you go a little deeper than that is the mindset of we'll talk about the side hustle mindset versus the like, you know, launching a business or entrepreneurial mindset. Yes. So I know a lot of people use these terms interchangeable. So a bit of business versus the company. So what I try to tell individuals like when you're running a business, you're definitely involved in the day to day operations. But I ask them, is your goal to transition that into a company for legacy where you can step away in the organization and continue to run? So, you know, if you you're just trying to do it for a side hustle and just have a business, I understand that because you have a passion. But if you want to step away and leave that for generational wealth, your goal should be to establish a company where you can step away in your organization and continue to run. So looking at your journey, so you talked about when you started out, you were working part time on your business and you were working full time. There's a lot of people I know that have gone through that situation or still in that situation, and they're running headlong into both situations. When did you find it time to pull the plug, quit the day job and solely focus on the business and grow it into that company? So I will say that when I realized that I was stuck and I didn't know where else to go. So, you know, for me, I had an obligation to the military. So I actually got a partner for one of the business that I was running that was very informative. And we kind of like worked together to while I was still in the military. When I transitioned out of the military, I just knew that I didn't want to go work for another company. And I had a passion for helping other people. So, you know, that for me, I knew at that point, I needed to actually get a coach in the industry that I wanted to work in. So I went and hired an actual business coach to make sure that when I was transitioning from the military to principals, you know, and things like that, with transitioning in leadership values, with transitioning to being a business coach. So I will say that, you know, when your business is stuck and not progressing, it's probably time for to get a business coach. Nice. So you've talked a lot about these mastermind meetings and finding these coaches. What is your suggestion to people to help find them? You know, because a lot of people are virtual. There's lots of noise on the Internet. Everyone's shouting, you know, I'm a great coach. You know, and even locally, you know, there's certain areas I found beneficial, like I mentioned before, I found a co-starters program here locally. I was able to plug in this to local businesses. But what's your recommendation for startups or even those established? How to help them find coaches and find people that they need to talk to to help grow their business? Yeah, so there is a lot of programs out there that are paid programs. And I'm not advocating for a paid versus a free program, but you just have to get out there, you know, get online, start searching. I actually, you know, within the last two weeks from just networking with other people, have found two very great programs that are free. You just show up and you share information and all programs are not the same. But I feel like you could learn something from every program. One of the takeaways from my last meeting that I just I've only attended it one time because, you know, another person told me about it is, for example, when you're doing Zoom meetings and things like I never thought about this. But, you know, when you're doing a meeting or you're in a mastermind, everyone says, so tell me about a little bit about you and then post your information in the chat. One of the things that one of the guys did that I took away, he created a crew article. He put it on his Zoom background. So as he was talking, he was like, hey, if you want to find out about me a little bit more, you can scan this QR code here and all of my information comes up. And I know that might be small, but that was something that I took away from, you know, a meeting that was free and everyone shared valuable information. So you can always get valuable information from free, you know, groups. You don't have to pay, you know, but they do have BNI and a couple of other programs that are out there. One other thing. Yeah, go ahead. Just one other thing. So I love that. So I love the tip about the Zoom, that QR code. That's a great idea. And we've actually talked about doing that to our YouTube page because, you know, you can add those cards and things for additional pop. What is a suggestion? So something like that. Sorry, are there any other suggestions like that that come to mind that would help startups or businesses kind of promote themselves un-intrusively, but still get the message out as to who they are, what they are, and hopefully attract more people or at least get the conversation going? Yeah. So, you know, in our course, what we teach a lot of our students is that they And one of the things that we've taken away is how you present yourself when you're initially speaking to people and how you're connecting with them. And what we teach is all about the value upfront. So the way we instruct our students is a lot of times people get tired of people approaching them about selling something to them. And so we teach them how to connect with them. A lot of times people get tired of people approaching them about selling something to them. So our focus is all about creating a network. So when we meet clients, we really don't talk about what we offer. We kind of talk about how we can help the client or how we can help the individual that we're talking to. And we share with them strategic partners that we're looking for. And we want them to share with us strategic partners that they're looking for. So, you know, we are not really then selling stuff to the actual person we're speaking to. We're just kind of leveraging our network to help them out. And then they're helping us out as well. I wanted to, I guess, tag on to that before we move off of it is the experience you had with the QR code on the Zoom. I found that those say, and particularly any of the networking groups, much like you sort of mentioned before, there's a lot of all these gurus that basically take the same thing. They repackage it and they'll change a couple of names, but it's roughly the same. It's sort of like there's families of networking groups. But one of the things that I found about those at any level of it is that when you're talking to these other people, when they are in a networking mode, there's amazing how many little things you can read off of these other people, whether it's, you know, Zoom meetings are great. I've seen all kinds of interesting stuff that are Zoom backgrounds that are just, you know, you'll notice you're like, oh, wow, that's a really cool way to self promote. Or people that have certain, there's a lot of different business card approaches I've seen. I know people don't use business cards much anymore, but just that you have one these days can be, in itself can be something that's an icebreaker of sorts. So there's a lot of stuff that comes out of that. I'll call it that community of networking and just getting around other like minded people. Now I'm going to switch a little bit because I want to dig a little bit more into the entrepreneurial mindset a little bit, because I think these are some things that resonate a lot with entrepreneurs and some of the stuff they struggle with. One of the things you mentioned a couple of times is we've talked about systems and virtual assistants. How do you, especially because I think it's a weird little like watershed moment when somebody realizes that a VA is actually useful to them. I think there's almost a mental block a lot of times, and this may be just because of what I had, but I think there's sort of a mental block and you get to a certain point where you're like, oh wow, this is an investment. This is a leverage. It isn't, you know, another cost center or something like that. What are some of the things that you do to sort of help adjust that mindset and particularly on how to, as an entrepreneur, to interact with the VA, if you, if you haven't done it before, particularly if you haven't managed or led before? So I would say that, so we've hired and let go of multiple VAs. So it drove me to create a system to be able to identify the right VA and then how to engage with that VA. So I think having an onboarding process for any VA is very helpful where you're laying out your mission, your goals to get that VA to be part of your team. So we've created an onboarding program where we have a series of different slides and courses that we put the VA through. And then also we have a system where you could use Monday or Asana where we list all of our tasks in the actual system for our VA. Because when we first started hiring a VA almost felt like an additional job because we didn't have a proper structure to be able to communicate with that VA. So then there was another task that I dreaded doing, but once I was able to come up with a great system. So what we kind of do now is we have a screen record. So any tasks that I give to the VA, I'll list the tasks in there, but then I'll also create a screen recording of exactly what I'm looking for and post that in the actual task. So, you know, that makes sure that the VA usually is not confused on what I'm asking for. And we've seen that be very helpful. And then another thing is we also make sure that the VAs take ownership in what they're doing and make them part of the team. So I felt that that has been very helpful on the way that we leverage our VAs. And that is where we're going to pause, but don't worry, we are not done with Antoine. We are coming back next episode. We're going to continue with part two. And yes, this time it's not me. I'm not going to say who it is, but somebody will ask the AI question and we'll see how that one goes. We'll see what the answer is because we've talked about a lot of things that touched on it, but didn't exactly get directly to it. Thank you so much for your time and hang out with us. Appreciate that you're spending your time here. I hope that you've gotten as much out of this as we have. This was really a great conversation, particularly the, those of us that are, you know, when you're doing side hustles, when you're running businesses, when you're in that entrepreneurial mindset, there's a lot of these things that I think just need to be said, even though, even if you know it, even if you've heard it, it helps to be reminded about it. That being said, I'm going to remind you to get out there and have yourself a great day, a great week, and we will talk to you next time. This was sponsored by RB Consulting, your partner in building smarter, scalable tech from startups to established teams. RB Consulting helps you turn tech chaos into clarity with proven roadmaps and hands-on expertise. Visit RB-SNS.com to start your next step forward. Also sponsored by Envision QA, they help businesses take control of their software by focusing on what matters most, quality, reliability, and support you can count on. Find out more at EnvisionQA.com. Thanks for tuning in to the Develop the Newer Podcast, where we're all about building better developers and better careers. I'd love to hear your thoughts or feedback, so drop a note to info at DeveloptheNewer.com. Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you listen. And remember, a little bit of effort every day adds up to a great success. Keep learning, keep growing, and we'll see you in the next episode.