Detailed Notes
Welcome back to our ongoing Upwork journey! In this episode, we delve into the specifics of crafting a winning proposal. Whether you're a seasoned freelancer or just starting out, understanding the intricacies of proposal writing is crucial for success on platforms like Upwork.
Deciphering the Job Posting
As we embark on our proposal-writing journey, let's dissect a typical job posting. Job descriptions may often seem repetitive, emphasizing the need for skilled, passionate individuals. However, hidden within the generic language are clues to what the client truly desires. For instance, a post seeking a "full-time software developer for a SaaS software company" might seem straightforward, but it's essential to delve deeper into the company's goals and technologies mentioned.
Analyzing Rates and Preferences
Understanding the client's budget and preferences is paramount. While hourly rates ranging from $30 to $100 may seem enticing, assessing the duration and workload associated with the project is crucial. Additionally, analyzing factors like the number of proposals received and preferred qualifications provides valuable insights into the competition and client expectations.
Crafting Your Proposal
Now, let's dive into the nitty-gritty of crafting a compelling proposal. Begin with a personalized introduction, acknowledging the client's needs and demonstrating enthusiasm for the project. Highlight relevant experience and showcase how your skills align with the job requirements.
Addressing Specific Questions
Some clients may include specific questions in their job postings. Take advantage of these prompts to showcase your expertise. Whether it's detailing your experience with SaaS or specifying your availability, ensure your responses are concise and tailored to the client's needs.
Showcasing Your Portfolio
Incorporating your portfolio into the proposal can provide tangible evidence of your capabilities. Whether it's a GitHub repository, sample projects, or certifications, these artifacts are compelling evidence of your skills and expertise.
Navigating Payment Processes
Understanding Upwork's payment process is essential for managing cash flow. With fixed-price projects, milestone-based payments ensure you're compensated for completed work. For hourly projects, payments are typically processed on a weekly basis, providing a steady income stream.
Pros and Cons of Upwork
While Upwork offers many opportunities for freelancers, weighing the pros and cons is essential. On the positive side, Upwork provides a vast marketplace with diverse job opportunities and reliable payment processing. However, the platform's fees and competition can pose challenges, requiring freelancers to manage their proposals and client relationships strategically.
Mastering the art of proposal writing on Upwork is a journey that requires diligence and adaptability. By carefully analyzing job postings, crafting tailored proposals, and leveraging your portfolio, you can increase your chances of success on the platform. Remember to stay proactive, continuously refine your approach, and embrace Upwork's opportunities for freelancers.
We invite you to share your experiences and insights as we wrap up this discussion. Whether you’ve triumphed over project challenges or faced unexpected hurdles, your stories enrich our collective learning journey. Honesty, clarity, and proactive communication are the cornerstone of successful software development. Until next time, happy coding!
We’d love to hear from you! Email us at [email protected] or visit our website to share your thoughts and stories. Stay tuned for more enriching discussions in the episodes to come.
Additional Resources for Crafting a Winning Proposal
* Upwork Startup Guide: Navigating the Freelance Landscape - https://develpreneur.com/upwork-startup-guide-navigating-the-freelance-landscape/ * Starting A Project-Based Business – Interview With Jay Aigner - https://develpreneur.com/starting-a-project-based-business-interview-with-jay-aigner/ * Starting A Consulting Business From Scratch – Adrienne Johnston - https://develpreneur.com/starting-a-consulting-business-from-scratch-adrienne-johnston/* Writing Proposals and Winning Projects - https://develpreneur.com/writing-proposals-and-winning-projects/ * Upwork - https://www.upwork.com/
Transcript Text
[Music] hello and welcome back we are back again and we are continuing our upwork journey basically for those are living in the uh the Youtube world you get to see some of this stuff for the rest of you we're going to walk our way through it this episode we're g actually get into some of the specifics of putting a proposal together now we've been struggling a little bit between the between episodes trying to find like a good fit so we're just gonna sort of G to pick one right now but it's something that I figure is at least close enough and so I can talk through a lot of these pieces this is something that you're going to see fairly often is the the post says full-time software developer for a SAS software cool all right that's a nice start you give them they've got a link for their website and they say we are a VC backed AI SAS software our software amorro produces marketing content for the pharmaceutical industry by using generative AI we're looking for a talented software engineer experience in SAS this person must be really skillful and passionate de delivering excellent work a lot of that is just yeah yeah yeah because that's the kind of stuff that we're you're going to see that over and over again it's going to be stuff like we want go-getters and we want self starters and we want it's just the same kind of stuff it's like find the technology stuff and find the details a case like this they're practically zero um it's just like hey so let's go look at the site for those of and so we're going to go check that and it goes through up work and I think it's says something like you sure you want to do this and uh here we go so it's a real site uh break free and create instantly generate Pharma emailers instantly with a few Quicks so they've got a pretty cool little thing it sounds like here um you know just basically again we're in the AI space and we're going to generate an email out of the blue uh for people so okay this is you know fun stuff it's nii it's um something that's automation which is something we like to do and so looking into this they've got uh their rates are anywhere from 30 to $100 an hour which is like great expert level I'm willing to pay high rates for the most experienced Freelancers which is good because that usually says hey I can go for like the you know the higher end of those hourly rates uh this is more than 30 hours a week and it's more than six months so that's like a a win-win win for me the interesting thing here is uh these things that are you know sort of like a a red flag so it's going to be you know depending on whether you want to dig into it or not $30 to $100 is their hourly rate but over here it talks about the client and out of let's see they five jobs posted 63% higher rate uh which is pretty good yeah so is key $87 an hour is the average rate so they're almost four times their normal rate for the minimum and of course then you're talking you know 15 times your rate basically for the top end so this may be something they're going to end up really they may be looking for somebody that's uh really lowend but that's okay we're going to go ahead and do this anyways because we want to do this so we we've looked at this before uh preferred qualification there's nothing that us activity they last looked at this 11 hours ago so they've looked at it today basically there's 50 plus proposal which means there's a ton of people interested in they sent some invites out they're interviewing seven people out of the 50 plus uh the high was 100 the low was 10 bucks for the bid most of them around 40 bucks so there's not a lot of detail they give here which allows us to really just sell them now we will see here they do have and this sometimes happens they've got specific questions that are going to be part of the proposal do you have experience in SAS are you front end back end or full stack and then when are when can you begin so you get to see those beforehand um I'll be able to I'll answer those things out and so we're going to go ahead we're going to apply to this and it's 22 connects so it's not a small amount but it's one of those it's like hey so now we're bringing we come into the if it's going to come up the submit a proposal and what it does is you can see you know sort of a summary again this the expertise they're looking for you can give your hourly rate and this is going to be at your profile you can set whatever your standard is but then I could go in and I could set it to whatever I wanted um they are going to show you know things like hey they've got a 10% fee that they're going to so this is what you're going to receive per hour afterwards so you need to factor that into your rate uh they have something that's new the last three months or so uh you can schedule automatic rate increases um as part of The Proposal uh and it's just to say hey if this is longterm then I'm going to have like every let's say every six months I want to do an increase of you know 5% and then something like that I always do never uh you probably don't want to do that depends on how long the project is but basically for me I'm just going to go I'm going to I figure I'm going to get the project and then if six months from now I want a higher rate then I'm going to have a better position to argue that higher rate anyways now the actual proposal piece now there's a couple ways you can go around it about it you're always going to have your cover letter and then you're going to have the questions they require now in this case what I'm going to do is I'm going to go flip over because I have done this a bunch so I have text that I've built over the years it's sort of like a it's a template that is basically to get started so I'm going to go take this text and that probably works let's see and I've got several iterations of it um so I sometimes I'll like I have different flavors different Technologies and things that I'll refer to but what I'm going to do is I'm go and paste that in oh and I'm going if I can do this because grammarly wants to get in my way and so this is I'll walk through this is sort of my boiler plate and and then you can make your own but basically I start with like hello and thank you for posting this project something like a just you know hey hi I'm Rob something like that sometime you just a nice little introduction your basic cover letter and then I start with hey I like in this case and I'm going to build off of this I've built several systems and integration similar to yours where multiple exist in system Solutions are evaluated and then a proposal is created to integrate streamling existing processes so again a lot of little marketing terms but what I want to do is I'm going to look at here so they are building uh using generative AI for pharmaceutical energy industry so what I am going to say is I'm like hey I've built several systems and solutions solution similar to yours and let's say where we use let's say uh cutting let's say Cutting Edge technology to automate um I want to do that yeah to automate processes so or we can actually say cutting a technology let's say and yeah let's keep it that way uh we use Cutting Edge technology for Automation and process Improvement uh let's see so here blah blah blah Let's see we often find we're able to reduce uh time and cost related to the initial system while also improving and reducing area so error so let say related to the initial approach or let's say yeah we'll say initial yeah we'll keep it that initial approach while we're also improve also improving quality and reducing errors um what I am going to do is I've got one here that is uh here we go this is specifically for this one although they are VC they don't have a lot of information um so what I'm probably going to do is have something that says hey you don't have a lot of information now I do have some text I use very often that is basically says hey we found postings like this often end up in like false starts wasted money things of that nature so I'm probably and a lot of times I'm do is I'm going to have text on the lines of saying hey you haven't provided me very much so I'm going to propose to put together some requirements first uh in this case they do have software they do have some pieces they're trying to bring somebody in with SAS so I want to I want to address that and so I am going to say just in the initial one that um I'm G to say that experience includes building multiple sass Solutions including ones in the healthc care industry and Hipp compliance which is the health information portability personalization and portability act uh I believe actually I think it's I always forget is it AA PP remember off the top of the hand head mik that looks right right I always forget it's hi paa wait uh make sure I've got the right one because I always forget exactly what it is uh where is it right at the top there it is so it's hip yeah here we go health insurance portability and accountability act Ah that's why so you do want in say situations like that to make sure that you have it right uh because that helps uh in healthcare industry and hippoc compliance and hippoc compliant and so you do want to play around with your wording this is where like you can use some AI tools like grammarly and stuff like that that I use to make sure that they are it's grammatically correct spelling is correct and to sort of tweak some of your your wording because you want something that's going to be like pchy you want to look at something that is going to say what are they looking for up here and then what is it that you're going to provide and so they really didn't give me a whole lot so what I am going to do is I'm going to sell them on hey I I see the process or let's say I'm going to say here I'm going to say I typically approach systems let's say system design and requirements in this fashion and this is where I've got some stuff that I've sort of worked over in the Years where it's basically hey we're going to going to talk about your business plans and needs we're going to get some requirements then we're going to craft some requirements then we're going to put together you know a project plan some blueprints some Milestones we're going to put some estimates around that and then typically I'm going to go into I talk about hey typically I'm G do status every week and do two week Sprints we're going to try to do demos on a regular basis um and then I talk about hey we often build out a clickable demo and then build out the functional as we go so that covers the basics you want to say you want to address their their their request essentially and then and within some stuff that's you know patting yourself on the back and things like that but then usually push that to the end it's like hey one of the things I do is I've got over 30 years of experience we now use this Blended model so we have I'm part of it but I also have these uh these mines and uh you know more junior level developers which I have played around with that a couple different times so I may let's see I may pick one of to do that um but basically what I'm going to end up doing is I say yeah and so I have stuff like hey this appro oh my Approach keeps the uh cost loow quality high and so it's things like that to try to hit some stuff to say hey this is Advanced EXP expt level but we're also going to like not blow stuff up um we're not going to have super high rates necessarily on top those even though we might be towards the top end now they're going to say do you have experience in SAS and you'll see do you have experience in X add some pieces so it'll be like case yes I have designed build maintained we'll say several SAS Solutions over the years you can you're probably better off to get more detailed in some of these um so you want to do something you know other than just like a oneliner because they're like although some of these uh when can you begin like that's not a lot you can do uh let's see available start uh front end be full stack so that's again it's a very short question so here let's see these have mostly been AWS based with minimal Solutions uh with let's say with a few Azure as well uh let's see that'll be a start so we'll just go with that for now so we' we've we put together a proposal not I'm not spending a ton of times on these um you can add a GitHub let's see so I can have a GitHub project link if I want to for related project I don't have a that I really want to put to them because the stuff I've got which unfortunately we run into regularly is you know under NDA and stuff like that but I am going to upload a project file and what I'm going to do is upload somewhere in here I'm GNA go to my docs I've got my marketing stuff I've got some common stuff and what I'm going to do is I'm going to pull one if I can double click fast enough there we go uh I've got a bunch of different things I use and this one I'm going to use like just a generic flyer one that I've got which is just a hey this is who we are some of the apps we've done things like that and so this one's just a sort of a laundry list kind of one I if I've got something that's more specific like if I want to do like if this was a python project a Java project PHP project then I would put those in there um I don't have like a SAS specific one that I've put together but those are the things that over time it's going to be helpful for you to build those out is what are the things you are most often applying to and then um let's see you know what of the things you most often and then build some flyers or some things to specifically address that there are some things you can do that you can highlight out of your profile so you can put like a job that you've done which is very helpful if you've got uh an upwork job you've already done that's very like that very much like that then you can link that into it you can have a portfolio project if you've done something that is um and I don't think I have anything that's like a full SAS um yeah I don't have anything that I really want to put there that's like let's see close and Discord highlights or I can add a certificate if I've got some sort of certification now we come into the bids this is where we put everything together and then we have those connects that we talked about in the last episode is we can put a certain number of connects in to give one of our if we can so we be one of the top four so when the customer jumps in they're going to be able these top four proposals and it's based on who's ever put the most connects in now I can for 22 I can just be one of that list if I want to bump up then I'm going to have to have at least 101 to beat out the fourth place now if somebody comes in and outbids me me then all of those extra connects that I had those will get kicked back to me so it'll kick it back down to 22 because now you're not in the top four anymore now this is where it's actually really beneficial for you to get in early and then you could have like if I was if I was in the first you know three or four I could set it up as uh I could have 23 connects so for one extra connect I could maybe be first place or at least in the top four and that's at least going to be there until somebody out bids me now that's something where you may be able to get in quick be up at the top they get to see you and then hey you get to take advantage of it otherwise in case like this you're going to see stuff where it's now it's going to cost you quite a bit and you may not get those back and so it's you know it's like it's one of those how much do you want to spend on your marketing efforts now for me I've only got about 120 or 130 connects right now anyways and I don't want to burn them all on this so I'm go ahead and send it for 22 connects it's going to say hey are you sure basically or actually it's going to go ahead and say hey your proposal was submitted and so now I could go look at it see how it goes and stuff like that but that is your proposal in nutshell go find your job make sure it matches your um your criteria as far as what level are you what is your what is your whether it's a fixed bid or hourly or are you comfortable with that are you comfortable with the rate you comfortable with the amount how much work are they expecting out of you what are some of the skills and expertise that they're looking for those are the things that you're going to want to put together to find out to pick your job and then when you go into it make sure that you're reading the details take a look at any links any attached documents any attached sites that they have so you've got to feel for what they are looking for as much as possible ask some intelligent questions as part of your proposal or propose some things that would answer some of those questions and then you if you've got some uh some pre-made material that will help you because then you can put together something that looks that is much more professional looking that looks like you've put some thought into it because you have it's just you don't have to now do it for every single proposal you do and instead of spending two hours on a proposal you can spend 15 minutes on a proposal that's it in a nutshell and so I've been talking the whole time thoughts Michael so as you're going through this process one of the things that I've run into and I'm curious how you handle this especially when you added um the attachment so some companies I've noticed do not like getting materials or proposals from people that are essentially uh like self-employed Consultants or from a business they prefer just outright individuals applying for the position so so in your flyer it had your RB Consulting whereas you know like I would have Envision QA on some of my material but I've had to actually remove that when submitting some of these because it gets kicked back because they're like oh we don't want a company when you're really not necessarily a company you're a Consulting you basically have licensed yourself as a business uh but you're still yourself you're still Consulting yeah in that case um that's sometimes what I'll do is I'll I'll I'll read between the lines a little bit usually what I'm going to want to do is say hey I would rather do it as a company and and be a consultant and have other people that work with me and you just know that uh but if it is something that's like we just want a person then I'll skip the flyer and instead I'll be like hey I'll include a resume or something like that and it is something that you may want to do it if you're if you're trying to straddle both sides then maybe what you do is you have Flyers that are focused on your company side but then a flyer that's different that basically just flips some of the wording and some of the skills and just like instead of it's this my company did this it's I did this you know or something like that and you you adjust accordingly and of course that's going to be something that um it's also if you've got what your experience is is that's going to limit what you're going to put on each of those obviously because you're not going to put the stuff that's U that was done by your company or by a group you're not necessarily going to put that in as you you know individually doing it because you don't want somebody to go back and say well you didn't do that by yourself you did that with 10 other people or something like that and then you know so you want to make sure you're as clear as possible what you're doing with those and also honestly as a as you are putting Pro proposals together and as I am um I'm going to think of those things if it's something that is individual that they want an individual they want just one person uh sometimes I'm going to walk away from it because I don't want to get into that and sometimes I'm going to say okay I can get into that I want to I want to start with that and my thought is that I will go in and if they hire me then I'll come back and say hey by the way I have a company behind me and some people that can help and things like that so it's it's where like every every proposal is unique to some extent and so you do want to pay attention to it and and get a feel for what they want how good a fit you are and then sell them on why you are a good fit excellent one additional topic I would like to kind of touch on within uh the time frame we have left is so once you have sub The promot Proposal you get the work and you start working when can you expect to get payment from working these jobs that's one thing we haven't really touched on uh that's true and um typically it it does vary um there are again with upwork itself I think they usually if not well if it's fixed bid then what you end up doing is you have Milestones you will submit a milestone they will they will okay it they will release the funds for it and it's typically about I think it's about a week to two weeks later uh now if you get far enough along and are a high enough level you have the right tags and stuff like that they do pay you a little sooner they will release funds quicker uh but typically um what you can expect is you will put your hours in at the end of a week you so Sunday they depending on where your time zone is sometime late Sunday they wrap up the week Monday is for review everything goes through that week and then it essentially gets invoiced um like at the end of the week like that Friday or Saturday and then it actually those funds are released to you essentially a week later or at least they're released into your account and then you can transfer those into your upwork account and then you can transfer those into a bank account so probably the from start to finish the longest it's probably about I don't maybe two and a half weeks something like that that you can't now there's you can work different uh pay schedules and stuff like that but typically they're going to they're going to work every week you're going to put your hours in every week they're going to bill it out and you're going to go from there um and so that's that is something you're probably going to want to pay attention to a little bit about the proposal but that's sort of where you're your cash flow goes and they and that's what's going to happen is that they will pull the you know if you Bill $100 they've got the flat 10% rate so they will you'll see that $100 but when they push it out to you um they put into your account then you'll see that you know 90 went into your account or you know and 10 was pulled out as part of your you know your fees so you can you can trap track it fairly easily as far as hey here's what you build here's what your fees are and that's I get an email every week I go through that it's like here's all my customers so I can just with one email go enter in you know enter into QuickBook all the information I need to from those that answer your question yes that was really good so final thoughts for our listeners on the podcast as to kind of your pros and cons of working with upward um that Chang it's changed a the years um and and and by that I mean like month in and month out it will change sometimes I'm happier with them than others um it has become probably one of the better uh it it has become one of the better places to go if you're looking for jobs if you're as far as a uh you know sideous so if you're doing consulting work and things like that they've got a lot of people they've got a lot of jobs out there the rates are going to be pretty good they're not as cheap as some of the places they're like you know like fivr can get better but you know can have some higher end stuff but there's you don't want to be in something where everybody's looking for you know minimum wage kind of work because that's not what you're doing and they're pretty good about some big compan out there um the 10% rate that they now have they just bumped that up this year it used to be that it was like it started at 20 and then after the first I think thousand do you build it went to 10 and then after $110,000 it went to 5% or something um now it's just 10% across the board that's a that's pretty nice chunk of money that they're getting especially since you're also paying for uh the connects and youve got a monthly you there's like there's a lot of money that into them so there are you know if you can find other ways like word of mouth and stuff like that that's going to be better but starting out it actually is really nice it's a it's a pretty nice system the payment stuff is pretty reliable they're good about if if you've got a customer that's dodgy or sketchy or something's wrong with them they will pause them and be and they'll let you know right it's say don't do any more work for these people because you may not get paid um so it's a all in all I think it's a great way to get started uh it's a great um you know supplemental kind of thing as well like I said I still use it we've got customers that are completely outside of upwork but then there's more than a few that are um some that I've had very long relationships with people that I met through up work and have continued to go and that's that's sort of the good and the bad I mean that's part of it too is the further you go into it the more that you're the more likely you are to be able to win proposals the make you you know you've got your ratings and your your track record that makes you more attractive to other companies so your thoughts anything extra there uh I have some additional thoughts for the uh bonus content uh but I think this is a pretty good point to uh wrap up the podcast all right well not to tease but to tease everybody that if you want more you're going to have to go check out the you have to go check out the YouTube channel and see our beautiful mugs as well as all that bonus content that being said we will let you get back to your car ride or whatever it is you happen to be doing while you're listening to this podcast as always check us out at developer.com you can send us email info@ developer.com we're out on the Twitter well it's not Twitter anymore we're out there but you're going to find us quicker if you go to x uh we have our Facebook page got our website school. developer.com where we've got a couple of our uh couple of our different tutorials and classes and stuff like that and Channel on YouTube where we've got this plus a lot of other information so let's back to your day go out there and have yourself a great day a great week and we will talk to you next time bonus content time fire away all right so I thought that time wise um that was a good stopping point so I wanted to flip over to the bonus stuff for this one so I loved how you walked through the last two uh podcasts and video cast showing us upw work taking our experience as contractors as developers one of the traps how do you avoid the trap with upwork where you've applied for multiple contracts and now all of a sudden you're getting um you go through the interview process but now like oh I've now had five approvals for contracts of work and it's like oops now I've like agreed to do 200 hours of work how do you avoid that trap or how do you pick and choose or how do you kind of budget your time with the proposals that you get accepted for uh unfortunately I've rarely had that issue you know that I've had to a great problem to deal with typically is to have you know far more work than you have resources um although I have had that there was one point where it was essentially going to my day work J job was costing me money and so I ended up quitting and just did Consulting work for a while uh for actually for several years um typically what you can do is is you end up in a situation where you're just you know you can talk to those customers and say hey like if everything hits at once you can say hey this is what's going on I've got all these projects and if there's somebody that's critical where they're like we need this right now then you you can depending on how it works and depending on what the rates are and stuff like that maybe those are the ones you want like okay I'm going to work with you and just you know talk to other and say hey I've got a couple other things that are more critical so I'm going to have to start yours a little later or I'm not going to be able to put as many hours into it a lot of times that's that's okay um they're like they're they're like okay we're we're okay with that if you end up with with two customers where they're both critical then just I would just be honest with you know either if you can just pick one then you pick the one you go to the other and say hey I'm sorry I had another project that hit and I you know it hit before we got signed off with you so I'm sorry it's just you I don't have there's not enough hours in the day can we push it back see what you can do with it if they if if they walk away they walk away and you just say I'm so sorry I just you know it's it is what it is because you're you're putting proposals out there and until somebody like Signs the dotted line or or you know sends a check or stuff like that then you can't count on it and I have been in that situation where I had several times where I've got three four five times the amount of work that I could possibly do that's in flight and you know people disappear or they ghost you or they it wasn't really a project or it's not what they really want it to be so you know you you sort of have to you got to make sure you keep your pipeline full and if you're overly if you're overloaded then you know sort of find a way to to at least uh when I've run into that I just make sure that I'm at least moving everything forward that I'm addressing them enough so that they feel like they're you they are their project is getting uh worked on and they we're making progress and they can see that and then it's just like hey you're not you know you were open to 40 hours a week but I'm only bilding you for 20 hours a week because I'm only working 20 hours a week on your project and you can just you just I'm G to be open that and let them know what's up and then figure it out from there but it's it's usually it's it's usually not that much of a problem because and that's honestly if it got to when it got when I tried to make it that kind of a problem I was already looking to hire somebody else or bring somebody else in so that I could say hey and I've always had that I've had somebody like yourself others where it's like if I get too much then I've sort of got in the back of my mind oh I can send some stuff off to this person I can send some stuff off to that person and so I'll even usually start those conversations and a lot of times they fall apart because I'm not that busy but then sometimes they are it's like hey I told you about this can you work on this for a while yeah it's always nice when you have too much work and you can kind of share the wealth or you know we can tap into additional resources and things like that like I've run into situations like that you know we've had friends that run into situations like that they contact us and uh you know we help each other I was the reason I was asking that was for some of those newer contractors out there people just starting to get into upward just starting to kind of freelance and you can run into those situations where you kind of want to you get into the situation where you don't want to say no you're you're new you kind of want to impress you kind of want to get going and you have a tendency to say yes to everything it is okay to say no sometimes or like Rob said be conscious and communicate to the customer and say hey look I just accepted this I'm not going to be necessarily available at the time I agreed to for say 3 months would it be okay if we started at maybe 5 hours a week or even could we push this off 3 months you know these are the kind of conversations as long as you are communicative and open with your customer or your client then things should go smoothly just don't lie don't hide don't deceive because that never goes well yeah it's like it's the more you can be the more transparent you can be the more you can you say hey this is what's going on this is where I'm at this is what what my Approach is to your project and you don't have to you don't have to give them like you know everything that's that's going on but just say hey this is like I said I I thought I was going to have more time I've got a couple other projects I'm working on that hit and so I'm not going to be able to give yours as much as I would like and then you just you and and usually what's going to happens they're going to say hey but if I've got a push is that okay you know if I've got like if if I really need you one week you know three weeks from now for something are you going to be available it's like I probably will and I'll usually tell them it's like you know what the problem is is that usually every customer says that has like the critical thing right at the same time but I'm going to do my best to you know if you've got something that really needs to be like has a deadline or something to hit that deadline and if it looks like I'm not going to be able to then I'm going to let you know and if you do that up front then it's great because what's going to end up happening is if they take you on as you go through you know time there's going to be just the reality is sometimes you're not going to be available and they're going to accept that because they're going to say yeah that's just that's reality and to kind of end the bonus content section so for those of you that have been watching the bonus content like I said before you know we're big fans of Tim Ferris and Gary Vander chuk one of Tim Ferris is famous comments is you know don't be busy be productive so if you're running into these time problems make sure that if your your time problems are time problems make sure that you're doing the work you're being productive and not just busy that will keep you focused and that'll make sure that you're getting the work done and productive and in a timely way yeah that's where you know sort of Just Dub tail off that that's where having really we've talked about having good requirements and you know project plans and Milestones that's where those things are actually very helpful because you're going to if you do it right you've got a nice project plan you got a list of requirements a list of tasks that you've got to get done and so when you sit down to get the work done you're okay this is the task I'm working on and I'm going to get it done and I'm going to work on the next Tas as opposed to sitting there going huh I wonder what I'm going to do right now and then waste wasting time shifting gears particularly if it's a side hustle because you're going to usually it's like I'm going to sit down I got to get going so I need to know what I'm working on and you need to talk to us more often feel free to give us feedback leave comments shoot us emails as we've talked about and just anything that you guys have that you have questions about because this is as you've seen it's just me and Michael talking and we'll come up with topics and say oh hey here's something we want to talk about here's something we want to cover and it's been things like this like we've had enough conversations around upwork and finding jobs and that we said hey let's do one let's just like walk through as example and that gives us uh you know a way to get back to you guys but also a way for us to sort of talk through these things and what are the some of the lessons we've learned over the years so we will let you get back to it uh thank you as always subscribe check us out on all of the different places and uh if you want since you're looking you haven't maybe haven't heard the podcast so feel free to grab the podcast as well that way you don't have to like you can actually drive while listening to us instead of watching the YouTube stuff because that's you please don't do that too many people already do so drive safe out there and go out there and have yourself a great one and we will talk to you guys next time [Music]
Transcript Segments
[Music]
hello and welcome back we are back again
and we are continuing our upwork journey
basically for those are living in the uh
the Youtube world you get to see some of
this stuff for the rest of you we're
going to walk our way through it this
episode we're g actually get into some
of the specifics of putting a proposal
together now we've been struggling a
little bit between the between episodes
trying to find like a good fit so we're
just gonna sort of G to pick one right
now but it's something that I figure is
at least close enough and so I can talk
through a lot of these pieces this is
something that you're going to see
fairly often is the the post says
full-time software developer for a SAS
software cool all right that's a nice
start you give them they've got a link
for their website and they say we are a
VC backed AI SAS software our software
amorro produces marketing content for
the pharmaceutical industry by using
generative AI we're looking for a
talented software engineer experience in
SAS this person must be really skillful
and passionate de delivering excellent
work a lot of that is just yeah yeah
yeah because that's the kind of stuff
that we're you're going to see that over
and over again it's going to be stuff
like we want go-getters and we want self
starters and we want it's just the same
kind of stuff it's like find the
technology stuff and find the details a
case like this they're practically zero
um it's just like hey so let's go look
at the site for those of and so we're
going to go check that and it goes
through up work and I think it's says
something like you sure you want to do
this and uh here we go so it's a real
site uh break free and create instantly
generate Pharma emailers instantly with
a few Quicks so they've got a pretty
cool little thing it sounds like here um
you know just basically again we're in
the AI space and we're going to generate
an email out of the blue uh for people
so
okay this is you know fun stuff it's nii
it's um something that's automation
which is something we like to do and so
looking into this they've got uh their
rates are anywhere from 30 to $100 an
hour which is like great expert level
I'm willing to pay high rates for the
most experienced Freelancers which is
good because that usually says hey I can
go for like the you know the higher end
of those hourly rates uh this is more
than 30 hours a week and it's more than
six months so that's like a a win-win
win for me the interesting thing here
is uh these things that are you know
sort of like a a red flag so it's going
to be you know depending on whether you
want to dig into it or not $30 to $100
is their hourly rate but over here it
talks about the client and out of let's
see they five jobs posted 63% higher
rate uh which is pretty good yeah
so is key $87 an hour is the average
rate so they're almost four times their
normal rate for the minimum and of
course then you're talking you know 15
times your rate basically for the top
end so this may be something they're
going to end up really they may be
looking for somebody
that's uh really lowend but that's okay
we're going to go ahead and do this
anyways because we want to do this so we
we've looked at this before uh preferred
qualification there's nothing that us
activity they last looked at this 11
hours ago so they've looked at it today
basically there's 50 plus proposal which
means there's a ton of people interested
in they sent some invites out they're
interviewing seven people out of the 50
plus uh the high was 100 the low was 10
bucks for the bid most of them around 40
bucks so there's not a lot of detail
they give here which allows us to really
just sell them now we will see here they
do have and this sometimes happens
they've got specific questions that are
going to be part of the proposal do you
have experience in SAS are you front end
back end or full stack and then when are
when can you begin so you get to see
those beforehand um I'll be able to I'll
answer those things out and so we're
going to go ahead we're going to apply
to this and it's 22 connects so it's not
a small amount but it's one of those
it's like hey so now we're bringing we
come into the if it's going to come up
the submit a
proposal and what it does is you can see
you know sort of a summary again this
the expertise they're looking for you
can give your hourly rate and this is
going to be at your profile you can set
whatever your standard is but then I
could go in and I could set it to
whatever I wanted um they are going to
show you know things like hey they've
got a 10% fee that they're going to so
this is what you're going to receive per
hour afterwards so you need to factor
that into your rate uh they have
something that's new the last three
months or so uh you can schedule
automatic rate increases um as part of
The Proposal uh and it's just to say hey
if this is longterm then I'm going to
have like every let's say every six
months I want to do an increase of you
know 5% and then something like that I
always do never uh you probably don't
want to do that depends on how long the
project is but basically for me I'm just
going to go I'm going to I figure I'm
going to get the project and then if six
months from now I want a higher rate
then I'm going to have a better position
to argue that higher rate
anyways
now the actual proposal piece now
there's a couple ways you can go around
it about it you're always going to have
your cover letter and then you're going
to have the questions they require now
in this case what I'm going to do is I'm
going to go flip over because I have
done this a bunch so I have text that
I've built over the years it's sort of
like a it's a template that is basically
to get started so I'm going to go take
this
text and that probably works let's see
and I've got several iterations of it um
so I sometimes I'll like I have
different flavors different Technologies
and things that I'll refer to but what
I'm going to do is I'm go and paste that
in oh and I'm going if I can do this
because grammarly wants to get in my way
and so this is I'll walk through this is
sort of my boiler plate and and
then you can make your own but basically
I start with like hello and thank you
for posting this project something like
a just you know hey hi I'm Rob something
like that sometime you just a nice
little introduction your basic cover
letter and then I start with hey I like
in this case and I'm going to build off
of this I've built several systems and
integration similar to yours where
multiple exist in system Solutions are
evaluated and then a proposal is created
to integrate streamling existing
processes so again a lot of little
marketing terms but what I want to do is
I'm going to look at here so they
are building uh using generative AI for
pharmaceutical energy industry so what I
am going to say is I'm like hey I've
built several
systems and
solutions solution similar to yours
and let's say
where we use let's say
uh cutting let's say Cutting
Edge
technology to
automate um I want to do that yeah to
automate
processes so or we can actually say
cutting a technology let's say
and yeah let's keep it that
way uh we use Cutting Edge
technology
for Automation and process
Improvement uh let's see so here blah
blah blah Let's see we often find we're
able to
reduce uh time and cost related to the
initial system while also improving and
reducing area so error so let say
related to the initial approach or let's
say yeah we'll say initial yeah we'll
keep it that initial approach while
we're also improve also improving
quality and reducing errors um what I am
going to do is I've got one
here that is uh here we
go this is specifically for this one
although they are
VC they don't have a lot of information
um so what I'm probably going to do is
have something that says hey you don't
have a lot of information now I do have
some text I use very often that is
basically says hey we found postings
like this often end up in like false
starts wasted money things of that
nature so I'm
probably and a lot of times I'm do is
I'm going to have text on the lines of
saying hey you haven't provided me very
much so I'm going to propose to put
together some requirements first uh in
this case they do have software they do
have some pieces they're trying to bring
somebody in with
SAS so I want to I want to address that
and so I am going to say just in the
initial one that um I'm G to say that
experience
includes
building multiple
sass Solutions
including ones in
the healthc care
industry
and Hipp
compliance which is the health
information portability personalization
and portability act uh I believe
actually I think it's I always forget is
it AA PP remember off the top of the
hand head mik that looks right right I
always
forget it's hi paa wait uh make sure
I've got the right one because I always
forget exactly what it is uh where is
it right at the top there it is so it's
hip yeah here we go health insurance
portability and accountability act Ah
that's why so you do want in say
situations like that to make sure that
you have it right uh because that
helps uh in healthcare industry and
hippoc compliance and hippoc
compliant and so you do want to play
around with your wording this is where
like you can use some AI tools like
grammarly and stuff like that that I use
to make sure that they are it's
grammatically correct spelling is
correct and to sort of tweak some of
your your wording because you want
something that's going to be like pchy
you want to look at something that is
going to say what are they looking for
up here and
then what is it that you're going to
provide and so they really didn't give
me a whole lot so what I am going to do
is I'm going to sell them on hey I I see
the process or let's say I'm going to
say
here I'm going to say I
typically
approach systems let's say system design
and
requirements in this fashion and this is
where I've got some stuff that I've sort
of worked over in the Years where it's
basically hey we're going to going to
talk about your business plans and needs
we're going to get some requirements
then we're going to craft some
requirements then we're going to put
together you know a project plan some
blueprints some Milestones we're going
to put some estimates around that and
then typically I'm going to go into I
talk about hey typically I'm G do status
every week and do two week Sprints we're
going to try to do demos on a regular
basis um and then I talk about hey we
often build out a clickable demo and
then build out the functional as we go
so that covers the basics you want to
say you want to address their their
their request essentially and then and
within some stuff that's you know
patting yourself on the back and things
like that but then usually push that to
the end it's like hey one of the things
I do is I've got over 30 years of
experience we now use this Blended model
so we have I'm part of it but I also
have these uh these mines and uh you
know more junior level developers
which I have played around with that a
couple different
times so I
may let's see I may pick one of to
do
that um but basically what I'm going to
end up doing is I
say yeah and so I have stuff like hey
this appro oh my Approach keeps the uh
cost loow quality high and so it's
things like that to try to hit some
stuff to say hey this is Advanced EXP
expt level but we're also going to like
not blow stuff up um we're
not going to have super high rates
necessarily on top those even though we
might be towards the top end now they're
going to say do you have experience in
SAS and you'll see do you have
experience in
X add some pieces so it'll be like case
yes I have
designed build maintained
we'll say
several SAS
Solutions over the years you can you're
probably better off to get more detailed
in some of these um so you want to do
something you know other than just like
a oneliner because they're like although
some of
these uh when can you
begin like that's not a lot you can do
uh let's see
available start
uh front end be full stack so that's
again it's a very short question so
here let's see
these
have mostly been
AWS
based with
minimal
Solutions uh with let's say with a few
Azure as well
uh let's
see that'll be a start so we'll just go
with that for
now so we' we've we put together a
proposal not I'm not spending a ton of
times on these um you can add a GitHub
let's
see
so I can have a GitHub project link if I
want to for related project I don't have
a
that I really want to put to them
because the stuff I've got which
unfortunately we run into regularly is
you know under NDA and stuff like that
but I am going to upload a project file
and what I'm going to do is
upload somewhere in here I'm GNA go to
my docs I've got my marketing stuff I've
got some common stuff and what I'm going
to do is I'm going to pull one if I can
double click fast
enough there we go uh I've got a bunch
of different things I
use and this one I'm going to use like
just a generic flyer one that I've got
which is just a hey this is who we are
some of the apps we've done things like
that and so this one's just a sort of a
laundry list kind of one I if I've got
something that's more specific like if I
want to do like if this was a python
project a Java project PHP project then
I would put those in there um I don't
have like a SAS specific one that I've
put together but those are the things
that over time it's going to be helpful
for you to build those out is what are
the things you are most often applying
to and then um let's see you know what
of the things you most often and then
build some flyers or some things to
specifically address that there are some
things you can do that you can highlight
out of your profile so you can put like
a job that you've done which is very
helpful if you've got uh an upwork job
you've already done that's very like
that very much like that then you can
link that into it you can have a
portfolio project if you've done
something that is um and I don't think I
have anything that's like a full
SAS
um yeah I don't have anything that I
really want to put there that's like
let's see close and Discord highlights
or I can add a certificate if I've got
some sort of certification now we come
into the bids this is
where we put everything together and
then we have those connects that we
talked about in the last episode is we
can put a certain number of connects in
to give one of our if we can so we be
one of the top four so when the customer
jumps in they're going to be able these
top four proposals and it's based on
who's ever put the most connects in now
I can for 22 I can just be one of that
list if I want to bump up then I'm going
to have to have at least 101 to beat out
the fourth place now if somebody comes
in and outbids me me then all of those
extra connects that I had those will get
kicked back to me so it'll kick it back
down to 22 because now you're not in the
top four anymore now this is where it's
actually really beneficial for you to
get in early and then you could have
like if I was if I was in the first you
know three or four I could set it up as
uh I could have 23 connects so for one
extra connect I could maybe be first
place or at least in the top four and
that's at least going to be there until
somebody out bids me now that's
something where you may be able to get
in quick be up at the top they get to
see you and then hey you get to take
advantage of it otherwise in case like
this you're going to see stuff where
it's now it's going to cost you quite a
bit and you may not get those back and
so it's you know it's like it's one of
those how much do you want to spend on
your marketing efforts now for me I've
only got about 120 or 130 connects right
now anyways and I don't want to burn
them all on this so I'm go ahead and
send it for 22
connects it's going to say hey are you
sure basically or actually it's going to
go ahead and say hey your proposal was
submitted and so now I could go look at
it see how it goes and stuff like that
but that is your proposal in nutshell go
find your job make sure it matches your
um your criteria as far as what level
are you what is your what is your
whether it's a fixed bid or hourly or
are you comfortable with that are you
comfortable with the rate you
comfortable with the amount how much
work are they expecting out of you what
are some of the skills and expertise
that they're looking for those are the
things that you're going to want to put
together to find out to pick your job
and then when you go into it make sure
that you're reading the
details take a look at any links any
attached documents any attached sites
that they have so you've got to feel for
what they are looking for as much as
possible ask some intelligent questions
as part of your proposal or propose some
things that would answer some of those
questions and then you if you've got
some uh some pre-made material that will
help you because then you can put
together something that looks that is
much more professional looking that
looks like you've put some thought into
it because you have it's just you don't
have to now do it for every single
proposal you do and instead of spending
two hours on a proposal you can spend 15
minutes on a
proposal that's it in a nutshell and so
I've been talking the whole time
thoughts Michael
so as you're going through this process
one of the things that I've run into and
I'm curious how you handle this
especially when you added um the
attachment so some companies I've
noticed do not
like getting materials or proposals from
people that are
essentially uh like self-employed
Consultants or from a business they
prefer just outright individuals
applying for the position so so in your
flyer it had your RB
Consulting whereas you know like I would
have Envision QA on some of my material
but I've had to actually remove that
when submitting some of these because it
gets kicked back because they're like oh
we don't want a company when you're
really not necessarily a company you're
a Consulting you basically have licensed
yourself as a business uh but you're
still yourself you're still
Consulting yeah in that case
um that's sometimes what I'll do is I'll
I'll I'll read between the lines a
little bit usually what I'm going to
want to do is say hey I would rather do
it as a company and and be a consultant
and have other people that work with me
and you just know that uh but if it is
something that's like we just want a
person then I'll skip the flyer and
instead I'll be like hey I'll include a
resume or something like that and it is
something that you may want to do it if
you're if you're trying to straddle both
sides then maybe what you do is you have
Flyers that are focused on your company
side but then a flyer that's different
that basically just flips some of the
wording and some of the skills and just
like instead of it's this my company did
this it's I did this you know or
something like that and you you adjust
accordingly and of course that's going
to be something that um it's also if
you've got what your experience is is
that's going to limit what you're going
to put on each of those obviously
because you're not going to put the
stuff that's U that was done by your
company or by a group you're not
necessarily going to put that in as you
you know individually doing it because
you don't want somebody to go back and
say well you didn't do that by yourself
you did that with 10 other people or
something like that and then you know so
you want to make sure you're as clear as
possible what you're doing with those
and
also honestly as a as you are putting
Pro proposals together and as I am um
I'm going to think of those things if
it's something that is individual that
they want an individual they want just
one person uh sometimes I'm going to
walk away from it because I don't want
to get into that and sometimes I'm going
to say okay I can get into that I want
to I want to start with that and my
thought is that I will go in and if they
hire me then I'll come back and say hey
by the
way I have a company behind me and some
people that can help and things like
that so it's it's where like every every
proposal is unique to some extent and so
you do want to pay attention to it and
and get a feel for what they want how
good a fit you are and then sell them on
why you are a good
fit excellent one additional topic I
would like to kind of touch on within uh
the time frame we have left is so once
you have sub The promot Proposal you get
the work and you start working when can
you expect to get payment from working
these jobs that's one thing we haven't
really touched on uh that's true and um
typically it it does vary um there are
again with upwork itself I think they
usually if not well if it's fixed bid
then what you end up doing is you have
Milestones you will submit a milestone
they will they will okay it they will
release the funds for it and it's
typically about I think it's about a
week to two weeks later uh now if you
get far enough along and are a high
enough level you have the right tags and
stuff like that they do pay you a little
sooner they will release funds quicker
uh but typically um what you can expect
is you will put your hours in at the end
of a week you so Sunday they depending
on where your time zone is sometime late
Sunday they wrap up the week Monday is
for review everything goes through that
week and then it essentially gets
invoiced um like at the end of the week
like that Friday or Saturday and then it
actually those funds are released to you
essentially a week later or at least
they're released into your account and
then you can transfer those into your
upwork account and then you can transfer
those into a bank account so probably
the from start to
finish the longest it's probably about I
don't maybe two and a half weeks
something like that that you can't now
there's you can work different uh pay
schedules and stuff like that but
typically they're going to they're going
to work every week you're going to put
your hours in every week they're going
to bill it out and you're going to go
from there um and so that's that is
something you're probably going to want
to pay attention to a little bit about
the proposal but that's sort of where
you're your cash flow goes and they and
that's what's going to happen is that
they will pull the you know if you Bill
$100
they've got the flat 10% rate so they
will you'll see that $100 but when they
push it out to you um they put into your
account then you'll see that you know 90
went into your account or you know and
10 was pulled out as part of your you
know your fees so you can you can trap
track it fairly easily as far as hey
here's what you build here's what your
fees are and that's I get an email every
week I go through that it's like here's
all my customers so I can just with one
email go enter in you know enter into
QuickBook all the information I need to
from
those that answer your question yes that
was really good so final thoughts for
our listeners on the podcast as
to kind of your pros and cons of working
with
upward um that Chang it's changed a the
years um and and and by that I mean like
month in and month out it will change
sometimes I'm happier with them than
others um it has become probably one of
the
better uh it it has become one of the
better places to go if you're looking
for jobs if you're as far as a uh you
know sideous so if you're doing
consulting work and things like that
they've got a lot of people they've got
a lot of jobs out there the rates are
going to be pretty good they're not as
cheap as some of the places they're like
you know like fivr can get better but
you know can have some higher end stuff
but there's you don't want to be in
something where everybody's looking for
you know minimum wage kind of work
because that's not what you're doing and
they're pretty good about some big
compan out there um the 10% rate that
they now have they just bumped that up
this year it used to be that it was like
it started at 20 and then after the
first I think thousand do you build it
went to 10 and then after $110,000 it
went to 5% or something um now it's just
10% across the board that's a that's
pretty nice chunk of money that they're
getting especially since you're also
paying for uh
the connects and youve got a monthly you
there's like there's a lot of money that
into them so there are you know if you
can find other ways like word of mouth
and stuff like that that's going to be
better but starting out it actually is
really nice it's a it's a pretty nice
system the payment stuff is pretty
reliable they're good about if if you've
got a customer that's dodgy or sketchy
or something's wrong with them they will
pause them and be and they'll let you
know right it's say don't do any more
work for these people because you may
not get paid
um so it's a all in all I think it's a
great way to get started uh it's a great
um you know supplemental kind of thing
as well like I said I still use it we've
got customers that are completely
outside of upwork but then there's more
than a few that are um some that I've
had very long relationships with people
that I met through up work and have
continued to go and that's that's sort
of the good and the bad I mean that's
part of it too is the further you go
into it the more that you're the more
likely you are to be able to win
proposals the make you you know you've
got your ratings and your your track
record that makes you more attractive to
other
companies so your thoughts anything
extra there uh I have some additional
thoughts for the uh bonus content uh but
I think this is a pretty good point to
uh wrap up the podcast all right well
not to tease but to tease everybody that
if you want more you're going to have to
go check out the you have to go check
out the YouTube channel and see our
beautiful mugs as well as all that bonus
content that being said we will let you
get back to your car ride or whatever it
is you happen to be doing while you're
listening to this podcast as always
check us out at developer.com you can
send us email info@ developer.com we're
out on the Twitter well it's not Twitter
anymore we're out there but you're going
to find us quicker if you go to x uh we
have our Facebook page got our website
school. developer.com where we've got a
couple of our uh couple of our different
tutorials and classes and stuff like
that and
Channel on YouTube where we've got this
plus a lot of other information so let's
back to your day go out there and have
yourself a great day a great week and we
will talk to you next
time bonus content time fire away all
right so I thought that time wise um
that was a good stopping point so I
wanted to flip over to the bonus stuff
for this one so I loved how you walked
through the last two uh podcasts and
video cast showing us upw
work taking our experience as
contractors as developers one of the
traps how do you avoid the trap with
upwork where you've applied for multiple
contracts and now all of a sudden you're
getting um you go through the interview
process but now like oh I've now had
five approvals for contracts of work and
it's like oops now I've like agreed to
do 200 hours of work how do you avoid
that trap or how do you pick and choose
or how do you kind of budget your time
with the proposals that you get accepted
for uh unfortunately I've rarely had
that issue you know that I've had to a
great problem to deal with typically is
to have you know far more work than you
have
resources um although I have had that
there was one point where it was
essentially going to my day work J job
was costing me money and so I ended up
quitting and just did Consulting work
for a while uh for actually for several
years
um typically what you can do is is you
end up in a situation where you're just
you know you can talk to those customers
and say hey like if everything hits at
once you can say hey this is what's
going on I've got all these projects and
if there's somebody that's critical
where they're like we need this right
now then you you can depending on how it
works and depending on what the rates
are and stuff like that maybe those are
the ones you want like okay I'm going to
work with you and just you know talk to
other and say hey I've got a couple
other things that are more critical so
I'm going to have to start yours a
little later or I'm not going to be able
to put as many hours into it a lot of
times that's that's okay um they're like
they're they're like okay we're we're
okay with that if you end up with with
two customers where they're both
critical then just I would just be
honest with you know either if you can
just pick one then you pick the one you
go to the other and say hey I'm sorry I
had another project that hit and I you
know it hit before we got signed off
with you
so I'm sorry it's just you I don't have
there's not enough hours in the day can
we push it back see what you can do with
it if they if if they walk away they
walk away and you just say I'm so sorry
I just you know it's it is what it is
because you're you're putting proposals
out there and until somebody like Signs
the dotted line or or you know sends a
check or stuff like that then you can't
count on it and I have been in that
situation where I had several times
where I've got three four five times the
amount of work that I could possibly do
that's in flight and you know people
disappear or they ghost you or they it
wasn't really a project or it's not what
they really want it to be so you know
you you sort of have to you got to make
sure you keep your pipeline full and if
you're overly if you're overloaded then
you know sort of find a way to to at
least uh when I've run into that I just
make sure that I'm at least moving
everything forward that I'm addressing
them enough so that they feel like
they're you they are their project is
getting uh worked on and they we're
making progress and they can see that
and then it's just like hey you're not
you know you were open to 40 hours a
week but I'm only bilding you for 20
hours a week because I'm only working 20
hours a week on your project and you can
just you just I'm G to be open that and
let them know what's up and then figure
it out from there but it's it's usually
it's it's usually not that much of a
problem because and that's honestly if
it got to when it got when I tried to
make it that kind of a problem I was
already looking to hire somebody else or
bring somebody else in so that I could
say hey and I've always had that I've
had somebody like yourself others where
it's like if I get too much then I've
sort of got in the back of my mind oh I
can send some stuff off to this person I
can send some stuff off to that person
and so I'll even usually start those
conversations and a lot of times they
fall apart because I'm not that busy but
then sometimes they are it's like hey I
told you about this can you work on this
for a
while yeah it's always nice when you
have too much work and you can kind of
share the wealth or you know we can tap
into additional resources and things
like that like I've run into situations
like that you know we've had friends
that run into situations like that they
contact us and uh you know we help each
other I was the reason I was asking that
was for some of those newer contractors
out there people just starting to get
into upward just starting to kind of
freelance and you can run into those
situations where you kind of want to you
get into the situation where you don't
want to say no you're you're new you
kind of want to impress you kind of want
to get going and you have a tendency to
say yes to everything it is okay to say
no sometimes or like Rob said be
conscious and communicate to the
customer and say hey look I just
accepted this I'm not going to be
necessarily available at the time I
agreed to for say 3 months would it be
okay if we started at maybe 5 hours a
week or even could we push this off 3
months you know these are the kind of
conversations as long as you are
communicative and open with your
customer or your client then things
should go smoothly just don't lie don't
hide don't deceive because that never
goes
well yeah it's like it's the more you
can be the more transparent you can be
the more you can you say hey this is
what's going on this is where I'm at
this is what what my Approach is to your
project and you don't have to you don't
have to give them like you know
everything that's that's going on but
just say hey this is like I said I I
thought I was going to have more time
I've got a couple other projects I'm
working on that hit and so I'm not going
to be able to give yours as much as I
would like and then you just you and and
usually what's going to happens they're
going to say hey but if I've got a push
is that okay you know if I've got like
if if I really need you one week you
know three weeks from now for something
are you going to be available it's like
I probably will and I'll usually tell
them it's like you know what the problem
is is that usually every customer says
that has like the critical thing right
at the same time but I'm going to do my
best to you know if you've got something
that really needs to be like has a
deadline or something to hit that
deadline and if it looks like I'm not
going to be able to then I'm going to
let you know and if you do that up front
then it's great because what's going to
end up happening is if they take you on
as you go through you know time there's
going to be just the reality is
sometimes you're not going to be
available and they're going to accept
that because they're going to say yeah
that's just that's reality
and to kind of end the bonus content
section so for those of you that have
been watching the bonus content like I
said before you know we're big fans of
Tim Ferris and Gary Vander chuk one of
Tim Ferris is famous comments is you
know don't be busy be productive so if
you're running into these time problems
make sure that if your your time
problems are time problems make sure
that you're doing the work you're being
productive and not just busy that will
keep you focused and that'll make sure
that you're getting the work done and
productive and in a timely
way yeah that's where you know sort of
Just Dub tail off that that's where
having really we've talked about having
good requirements and you know project
plans and Milestones that's where those
things are actually very helpful because
you're going to if you do it right
you've got a nice project plan you got a
list of requirements a list of tasks
that you've got to get done and so when
you sit down to get the work done you're
okay this is the task I'm working on and
I'm going to get it done and I'm going
to work on the next Tas as opposed to
sitting there going huh I wonder what
I'm going to do right now and then waste
wasting time shifting gears particularly
if it's a side hustle because you're
going to usually it's like I'm going to
sit down I got to get going so I need to
know what I'm working on and you need to
talk to us more often feel free to give
us feedback leave comments shoot us
emails as we've talked about and just
anything that you guys have that you
have questions about because this is as
you've seen it's just me and Michael
talking and we'll come up with topics
and say oh hey here's something we want
to talk about here's something we want
to cover and it's been things like this
like we've had enough conversations
around upwork and finding jobs and that
we said hey let's do one let's just like
walk through as example and that gives
us uh you know a way to get back to you
guys but also a way for us to sort of
talk through these things and what are
the some of the lessons we've learned
over the years so we will let you get
back to it uh thank you as always
subscribe check us out on all of the
different places and uh if you want
since you're looking you haven't maybe
haven't heard the podcast so feel free
to grab the podcast as well that way you
don't have to like you can actually
drive while listening to us instead of
watching the YouTube stuff because
that's you please don't do that too many
people already do so drive safe out
there and go out there and have yourself
a great one and we will talk to you guys
next time
[Music]