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Building Better Developers with AI | Season 25, Episode 1

2025-06-05 Youtube

Detailed Notes

Welcome to Season 25 of the Building Better Developers podcast! 🎉 This time, we’re handing the mic (kind of) to artificial intelligence.

In this season premiere, Rob Broadhead and Michael Meloche explore how AI can support, challenge, and even inspire better software development practices. We’re calling it: Building Better Developers with AI.

🚀 Episode Highlights: • Why we let ChatGPT help pick our season theme • The difference between AI, ML, and deep learning (in plain English) • Real-world dev tools powered by AI • Prompt engineering tips (and frustrations) • How to avoid blindly trusting AI-generated code

Whether you’re AI-curious or already integrating tools like ChatGPT and GitHub Copilot into your workflow, this episode sets the tone for a season full of practical insights and a little bit of fun.

🧠 “No math hats. No buzzword fatigue. Just real talk about AI for developers.”

👉 Subscribe and follow along as we explore how developers can use AI to build smarter, not harder.

🔗 Subscribe & Listen on All Platforms: https://develpreneur.com/ Episode recap: https://develpreneur.com/building-better-developers-with-ai-season-25/

💬 Join the conversation: What’s your take on AI in development? Drop a comment below and let us know how you’re using AI in your workflow!

⏱️ Timestamps 00:00 Pre-show 02:00 Podcast Intro 06:30 Season wrap-up review 27:00 Podcast wrap-up 30:30 Bonus material

#AIForDevelopers #BuildingBetterDevelopers #ChatGPT #PromptEngineering #SoftwareDevelopment #DevPodcast

Transcript Text
[Music]
Let me go over here. Here's what I'm
thinking. We were going to we discussed
the idea of doing like every episode AI
gen you know talk to AI do a little chat
GPT work and see what it has to say. I
think I want to start with because I
think what would be a good thing to do?
I had a couple. The one that came to
mind would be let's ask chat GPT what
would be a good season of developor and
spend a little time going down that
rabbit hole and my my concern is that
we're going to get such a good time like
that's going to be our season which is
okay or we're going to have this where
we're just going to step in we'll have a
question of the day basically and spend
a little chat GBT time talking about its
responses and things like that and maybe
even a little bit of a game almost of
like well where do we think it's going
to take us and stuff like that because I
think there's some really cool areas we
can go and say
okay you like common knowledge and
things like
that the um like what's the you know
what's a great language to learn for
programming you know things like that
some of these things that people
probably have their their reasons for it
but we'll do it and we'll see what it
what it tells
us so how about that for the first one
yeah on chat you can see go ahead and
and yeah and see where that goes. And I
guess at the end of that though, we got
to figure out what our season is so I
know how to It does. By the end of this,
we're going to be like, this is going to
be our season. It may just be more AI,
but it may be whatever that title is.
So, this is definitely going to be
people seeing how the sausage is made
with a three, a two, a one. Well, hello
and welcome back. We are building better
developers. We are in a new season. We
just finished up our prior one and we
are starting a new one. We don't even
know what the season topic is going to
be yet. More on that later. First
introductions. I am Rob Broadhead, one
of the founders of de
developer, also a founder of RB
Consulting, where we are, as some people
call it, a boutique consulting firm
where, in our case, we sit down, we're
very specific about working with our
customer to figure out where they're at,
what is their business, what is the
goals, what are some of the things that
are their secret sauce, and then craft a
specific recipe for them of using
technology and a roadmap to be better in
the future, a better business based on
leveraging technology. And that includes
things like simplification, integration,
automation, innovation. Whether you're
you've got a custom app that needs to be
rebuilt, whether you've got something
needs to be upgraded, whether you've got
too many cooks in the kitchen, you need
to integrate some of those systems, give
yourself a single dashboard, those kinds
of things. We're going to help you find
the best solutions out there because we
play in that world all the time. You
don't. So, we're going to allow you to
keep doing your business, do more to
work on your business, and we're going
to help you the in your business part go
a little smoother and a little faster.
Good things, bad things. Um, so Memorial
Day was just this last week. Um, it was
a rainy, rainy day. It was a crappy day
and we were in a little town in
Tennessee where basically everything
shuts down for Memorial Day and then
also was just shut down in general
because it was, you know, not very good
weather. And by it wasn't like pouring
rain, but it was like just a little bit
of drizzle. So, it's the stuff where you
can be out in it. It's just not
comfortable to do it for a long period
of time. That was the bad thing. Well,
actually, part of that was the places we
wanted to go for breakfast were all
closed. We ended up having it at a a
fast food restaurant because we just
like we wanted some food. We were
hungry.
got in, got our food. This is where the
good thing is. We got out a lot faster
than we would have. And so we were just
walking through this downtown area and
stumbled across a Memorial Day
celebration. We got there like just as
it started, like they were just starting
the first part of it and got to be a
part of, you know, by part of got to
witness the entire ceremony and all that
kind of stuff. So it was really good to
be able to actually embrace Memorial Day
in this little town and and all of their
thanks to the vets and things like that.
So sometimes the bad things do lead us
to good things. For example, my bad
introduction is going to lead you to
hopefully a good introduction for
Michael. Go ahead. Hey everyone, my name
is Michael Malashsh. I'm one of the
co-founders of building better
developers, also known as developer. I'm
also the founder of a company called
Envision QA where we work with
businesses small and large to help you
streamline your business. You could be
struggling with outdated software. you
could be struggling to find the right
software to help you run your business.
We step in, we work with you, we help
you, we walk through the process with
you, we understand your processes and
procedures, and then we kind of put
together that assessment and help you
figure out where your pain points are
and how to improve your business. And
then through the process, we will help
you establish what you need to be a more
productive and streamlined uh business
so you can make your customers happy and
actually hopefully bring in more money.
Good thing, bad thing? Well, similar to
Rob, you know, Memorial Day was just the
past weekend. Unlike Rob, I had tsunami
like weather most of the weekend. There
were days looking out my window, you
literally couldn't see 5t past the deck.
There was so much rain. It was like
Niagara Falls. But the first day, uh,
the Friday evening after the rainstorms,
it was sunny for about 6 hours and then
3:00 in the night, we had hail, wind,
storms. It it just and then it's like,
okay, here we're going to be clear for
about 4 hours and then boom, here's
another tsunami. Uh the good side of
that was uh my pond is back all the way
up again. It was kind of going down. Um
and my garden is looking nice and
healthy. It may be overwatered at this
point and I need a few days of sun, but
the good thing is I don't have to worry
about watering my garden or my yard for
quite a while.
So this season we talked about a couple
of things and one of the things that we
had come across was the idea of maybe
integrating AI into each episode so that
there would be like maybe a question or
something like that that we would go
with. And in thinking through it, I
think what we want to do this time is
we're going to actually use AI
potentially to figure out what our
episode or season's topic is going to
be. So I'm going to walk through this
just chat GPT. I'm going to walk through
asking it some questions and we'll see
what it says and we'll sort of go down
some of these rabbit holes. So the first
question is I said what are good season
topics for the developer-building better
developers podcast and the funny thing
is is it gives me uh looks like eight
seasons
of topics with about looks like about
five to six bullet points for each one.
So for example and some of these I think
we've done some of this season one from
developer to software craftsman focus is
foundational principles and mindset
evolution. They talk about clean code
and pra practice solid principles of
real life tech debt managing it and
avoiding it writing codes for humans and
future you uh test driven development
pros cons when they work. A lot of these
sound very familiar. Season two,
building better software projects.
Designing software with the focus is
project planning and architecture. Uh
designing software with scalability,
choosing the right tech stack,
estimating software projects that don't
suck. Requirements gathering for
developers, agile, scrum, conbon, what
works and why. Season three, security
for everyday developers. They talk about
OASP and a versus a z writing secure
APIs. Uh secrets management, secure by
design. Season four, developer tool
belt, mastering the tools. Uh things
like get internals every dev should
know, setting up CI/CD, Docker and
Containers 101, monitoring and logging,
using ids like IDE like a power user. Uh
season 5 full stack fundamentals,
front-end frameworks comparisons, R
versus GraphQL, backend with Spring
Boot, Node or Django, databases, DevOps
basics for developers. Uh, season six,
career development for developers.
Building a portfolio, certifications,
are they worth it? How to prep for
interviews, avoiding burnout, becoming a
tech lead without burning out? Season
seven, AI and automation for developers.
How is AI changing coding, prompt
engineering, automating repetitive tra
tasks with scripts, ML basics, ethics of
AI, season 8, the last one it gave us,
communication and teamwork, writing
better documentation, giving and
receiving code reviews, navigating tech
debt, working with non-technical
stakeholders, mentorship and pair
programming. And then it says afterwards
it says, "Well, let me know your show's
tone or audience level, junior devs,
team leads, indie hackers, etc., and I
can help customize these topics further
or outline a full episode structure per
season." So, let's pause there. What are
your thoughts on this? So, it it's kind
of funny because we have actually
covered most of that at least in like
the first two seasons. It mentioned the
last one definitely. Uh, some of the
other stuff goes back to some of the
kind of hands-on videos we did with our
coding and that back in the day, some of
the security stuff we did.
Um, it kind of prompted me to want to uh
there's some topics there that would be
better served, I think, as uh going back
to our kind of how-to videos with kind
of walking through software. But the AI
one was interesting because the biggest
one I hear a lot and I struggle with
this one too is prompting AI to kind of
give you what you need. You know that
that's one of the biggest struggles with
AI because you it's like Dragon
Naturally Speaking. You have to train it
to understand your way of thinking and
then once you've spent enough time with
it, you can pretty much just start with
one question and then say okay and give
me more or hey that's not quite right do
this like you are training AI but AI is
also training you into how to kind of
your if then responses to the
conversation that you're having.
Exactly. And that's that's part of the
problem I've I've seen in a couple of
cases, for example, that I've had more
than a few that have gotten
mindbendingly circular because there's
two, you know, essentially there's like
two versions of solutions and it'll keep
bouncing back and forth between of them
and it'll get all the way through one
and it'll be like, well, hey, have you
tried this? And it goes all the way
through and then you go back to the
other and then you're like, wait a
minute, which one am I doing? And it'll
sometimes mix and match some of those uh
some of the key periods. It's like make
sure you do X, but it'll have it in the
wrong stack of of steps essentially. So
there's there's definitely some stuff
there where you have to train it. You
have to do some trial and error and let
it know things like, hey, this is what I
tried and this is what I'm getting. So,
you know, those kinds of and it'll
always be like, thank you. I needed that
extra context. Here's some other crap.
And it really is good for getting you
through those u the the walls that we
put up or you know writer's block and
and things like that. So maybe that's
where that sort of points to maybe we'll
we'll stick with this. So what do you
think? Should we what should we give it
for let's see give a little bit more. So
like what do we want to say the audience
level is or maybe the tone?
Uh let's go. So I think AI is still
fairly new. Uh so I would say uh the
audience is going to be AI novice but
probably mid-level developer
go with that. Although this is you know
focusing a little on AI but let's go
with this. So I'm going to say the tone
is fun and educational. Let's say
casual. Now it's interesting too. Um,
are you using the paid version or the
free version? Because there are
differences between the two and we need
to throw that out. The paid version I've
got like the the low end of that. So,
it's using whatever the chat GPT4 four
five whatever the latest version is
which you get that I think even free you
just get like very limited amounts of
it. And then it has to do with its uh
how fast it will respond as well. So,
I'm going to say this tone is casual,
fun, and educational. audience is an AI
novice but midlevel
developer. Let's see what it says
here. Perfect. With a casual, fun, and
educational tone and an audience of
mid-level developers who are AI
noviceses, you can strike a balance
between technical depth and beginner
friendly explanation. Here's a refined
set of season themes tailored. So, uh,
AI for the rest of us, season one theme,
demystify a IML for everyday devs tone.
You don't need a PhD to understand this
stuff. Episodes. What the heck is AI
really? ML versus AI versus data
science. Buzzword bingo. How chat chatpt
PT chat GPT like my speaking kind of
works which is a really good little
topic. Cool projects to try with AI
APIs. AI tools that actually make you
faster and some that don't. Prompt
engineering like for developers. Bias
hallucinations and other weird owl
quirks. Not or weird AI quirks. We're
now a little bit different, I
guess. Uh, season two, the developer
tools shed. They get back into that. Um,
they really just check get tips you'll
wish you knew last year. CI/CD without
tears. Docker's containers and WTF is a
volume IDA short IDE shortcuts debugging
like Sherlock Holmes. So really it looks
like what it's doing here is it's mostly
giving us
uh some
moderified topic or titles but roughly
the same kind of subject. So let's see.
Would you like help unw outlining one
full season's episode, scripting an
intro or picking guest tools to
highlight?
So, how do we want to let's uh let's see
kind what were the first two uh AI for
the rest of us and the developer tool
shed. You want to do season one? Let's
see what that does. Yeah, I kind of like
the first one that that one on season
because it kind of goes really well with
from last season. So, because we do talk
a lot about developer tools and that,
but we also talk a lot about businesses.
So with AI especially, we can keep it
kind of for everyone uh be a developer
or a business.
So absolutely. Let's break down season
one AI for the rest of us and craft a
compelling, casual, and educational
intro for the season and each episode.
This season's goal is to make AI feel
approachable, practical, and fun for
mid-level devs who are just starting to
explore it. Season one, AI for the rest
of us. tagline, no math hats, no
buzzword fatigue, just real talk on how
developers like you can start using AI
today. Season intro first episode or
trailer. Welcome to the developer
building better developers. I'm okay.
I'm Rob. I'm going to do this like
verbatim. So, it's going to be AIish.
I'm Rob. In this season, we're diving
into something that's got everyone
buzzing, panicking, or pretending they
already know what it means, AI. But
don't worry, this isn't some dry
academic lecture or enterprise sales
pitch. for calling this season AI for
the rest of us. If you're a developer
who knows your way around a codebase,
but has no idea what the difference is
between a neural network and a pizza
delivery route, this is your season.
We'll break down the basics, explore
tools you can use right now, and talk
about how AI can help you, not replace
you. So, fire up your terminal, grab
your coffee, let's get smarter
together. I'll talk about the episode
one episode one breakdown real quick and
then let's I want to talk a little bit
more about what it just gave us. So,
episode one, what the heck is AI really?
Goal: Define AI in plain English with
relatable analogies. Talking points, AI
versus ML versus deep learning. How your
app can learn without hard coding
logic. Real world examples,
autocomplete, Netflix, prod fraud
detection, what AI is not. Skynet soul
having
robots. So that's a pretty
good episode to talk about it. Now, I
want to go back to this is something
I've
found really fun with AI and a couple
other things I've done. Yes, it's really
good um pretty good for coding. You
could there's a lot of stuff
particularly very repetitive tasks that
you can get coded real easy. So, the
ones that I find that are I'm always
going to have typos or something stupid
like that that'll drag my, you know,
productivity down are
JavaScript functions and stuff like
that.
if you want to say, "Hey, I need to uh
pop a shadow box when this value is
above 100," and you give it that script,
and then it'll give you here's how you
modify your script, and it's pretty darn
good. Now, sometimes it'll, you know,
it'll mix a variable or something like
that, which is down to the same kinds of
stupid debugging that, you know, stuff
that we will do if we have a typo, but
particularly if it's something that's
going to take you more than three lines
of code, it is it could be very helpful.
um or numerous times that I've had stuff
where I know it's going to take like
there's five steps each of those steps
are going to take five to 10 lines of
code and I can either write all that
code and do it myself or I can take AI
it's going to give me that template for
lack of lack of better term I can then
take that put it into my code tweak it
as I need to and then I'm going to end
up saving myself sometimes you know an
hour or two of coding and and just the
general walking through it's like how do
I solve this problem again it's sort of
like having your own code toolbox that
we've talked about your own personal
repository, but now it's something I
don't even have to go out there. I can
go to AI just as easily. I want to talk
though a little bit about this is what
do you think about like that that intro
because I'm finding that it is very
sometimes it writes some really
compelling stuff with just a little bit
of a tweak. Yeah, I I think that was
actually a very good kind of summary to
come back with for what we
essentially could do for this whole
season. Uh, one thing I will throw out
though because you kind of mentioned
using it to get little code snippets. I
will throw this is one of those warnings
of using AI and it's very similar to
just surfing the web too to get an
answer. Be careful what you ask. So like
if you're actually looking for command
line uh examples, don't just blindly
copy and paste and run. you could crash
your entire
system. If you are doing things that
require more security, more command
line, AI is great, but still take their
response and go Google it. Look at like
maybe Stack Overflow. Look to add some
reputable sites to get a little more
research to confirm that, hey, this is
the right approach and not something
that's going to take me down or crash my
entire network or software. Uh, I have
had that happen. I but I've also had
that happen from going to a site and
following directions on something um
from an actual manufacturer site and
they had a typo and that typo caused
things to go ary. So there are pros and
cons to everything that we do and AI is
no different. I think with that it's not
just go to you know and this is where I
think some people get into this loop of
they're like oh they don't really know
it so they'll go AI and then they'll go
to Google they'll go backwards and
forwards and you know compare a couple
of those you should make sure that
whatever the problem is you're solving
that you understand the problem that
you're solving what the solution should
do just you know you should know that
like I said the example I use these are
the things that you should be able to do
on your own because you need to be able
to vet what it is that you're given And
definitely take look very closely
because there have been more than a few
times that there yeah there's a typo or
there's something that there's an
assumption in whatever the response is
that can cause you issues and and things
like that. So like I said use it as like
a a template or a suggestion or
something like that and make sure you
understand what it is that you're using.
One of the things I've used before is I
said, "Hey, go through it and change the
variable names or the function names to
something that matters to that makes
sense that you would use just to be
sure, you know, or just get a snippet of
code that's going to require input from
other places and then you're going to
have to change the code anyways to
handle that input and that's going to
force you to touch it enough as opposed
to just like the copy and paste, which I
have seen way too often where you see
the copy and paste and it's got comments
in it that are basically this is where
we do this. this is where we do that
which is very AI like um and it's
exactly what you're going to get if you
throw code at it and say just comment
this code it's probably going to give
you the same kind of thing. So yeah it's
uh as always take it with a grain of
salt. So now what I'm going to do is
let's do one more question into this and
we'll see because who knows where we're
going to go from the season still. It
says, "Would you like help writing full
episode scripts, interview questions for
guests, or creating social snippets or
summaries for each episode?" I'm gonna
say yes, all three. And so, let's see
what it comes. Oh, let's get you started
with scripts, interview questions, and
social media snippets for season 1,
episode one. What the heck is AI really?
So, oh, this works out pretty good.
Episode script outline style, 15 to 20
minutes. That's not bad. Uh, intro. Hey
everyone, welcome to developer, building
better developers. I'm Rob and today
we're kicking off our season AI for the
rest of us. This episode we're tackling
the big question everybody asks, what
the heck is AI really? And of course we
could, you know, we could add to that.
So this actually timing wise is going to
be really good. Part one, defining AI
without the buzzwords. And now it's got
four bullet points. I'm not going to go
too deep, but it's actually says part
one, defining AI with the without
buzzwords. Three minutes gives us some
bullet points to go through. Uh classic
analogy if traditional code is like a
recipe. AI is like giving someone 100
finished dishes and asking them to
reverse engineer the ingredients. That's
a really good
uh analogy. Um part two, four minutes,
AI versus ML versus deep learning. Um
and basically, oh here's some bullet
points for real world AI. Roomba that
avoids furniture. ML is spam filter that
learns from your inbox. um DL deep
learning imagine class image classifier
that tells cats from dogs all of which
are really good AI solutions if you
haven't looked into them uh probably do
because there is a value to each of
those for uh some of the things for
probably any project or application
you're doing you can find where those
are going to be useful uh so that was so
at three minutes four minutes another
three minutes part three real world
examples you already use uh part four
what AI is not is another three minutes
and then there's an outro of 2 minutes.
Next week, we'll decode the jargon. NLP,
transformers, LOMs. Don't worry, it
won't hurt. Until then, try spotting how
many AI powered things you interact with
this week. Hint, it's probably more than
you think. So, that's actually for a,
you know, a summary. That's a really
good, I think, approach to how we often
do our our episodes. Here's some
interview questions. Uh, optional
segment or full episode. Uh, some guest
interview questions would be, how would
you explain AI to your non- tech family
members? Uh, what was your first real
world AI aha moment as a dev? What are
some misconceptions developers have
about AI? What's something AI is good at
and something it's terrible at? Do you
think every developer needs to learn
machine learning or why or why not ML?
Uh, social media snippets for Twitter X,
LinkedIn threads. New episode drop. What
the heck is AI really? Kicks off season
one of developer. Perfect for devs who
know code but not
transformers. What's the difference
between AI, ML, and deep learning? Hint,
not just marketing. Season 1, episode
one. Breaks it down in plain dev speak.
Listen now with a link. And three, if
your code is like a recipe, AI is a chef
who figures it out just by tasting the
dish. This and more metaphors in episode
one of our new season, AI for the rest
of us. So, thoughts on how AI has like
laid out an episode for us.
Yeah, I I've played around with AI a lot
doing things like that and
it's interesting how concise it kind of
got down there probably because there's
been a lot of conversations. I mean a
lot of what we get out of the AIS like
Czech GPT cop it's what's been fed into
what it's been allowed to kind of scrape
from the internet. So I think chat GPT
is one of the fewer models that is a
little more behind because I think it's
I don't think that one's connected to
the internet. So I don't think it can
just go out at real time and just go
scrape a site. Uh but Copilot and some
of the other ones can. So I really like
some of the ideas and topics it came up
with. I I really like kind of that first
uh first few top uh ideas because that's
kind of what we've just done here,
right? We just kind of walked through a
brief overview what AI is. Uh some of
those get a little deep though for kind
of I think the direction of like the
season should go like we I don't think
we need to get
too deep in the weeds with some of like
the higher like the deep learning and
machine learning. Uh outside of talking
about them and giving some good
examples. Uh, but I think for the first
season, we should kind of keep it more
at that interactive the the higher level
AI. So, here's a thought I had as I was
going through this one. I just checked I
was in chat GPT and I was like, "Okay,
what's the name of the latest post?"
Because I figured that's, you know,
newish and it actually went out to the
web and then it gives me it basically, I
guess, does its own effectively Google
search or something like that, which is
so it's pretty cool. It gives me some,
you know, some good answers and stuff
like that. Um, it doesn't give
me it does give me like a a Wikipedia
thing, a little bit of a and it comes
from AP New. Oh, and it actually is
giving me some good
uh a nice little bibliography here. It's
like, you know, here it is. Wikipedia
plus 14, Reuters plus 7. Uh, a little
bit more information. AP News plus two,
Wikipedia plus one. Uh, here's something
from Vox. So, it tells me where the
sources are, which is really nice. Um,
so you can always go back to those and
it gives you some links to each of
these. So, it does have some usefulness
there. That being said, I don't want to
digress too much. So, here's what I was
thinking about that just sort of came to
me for this season.
How about we take a past season, uh
maybe we go two seasons back where we
had the the challenges, the building
better developer, you know, focused on
building better developers, and we take
each episode and we talk about the
topic, but now we're going to go to AI
and see what AI thinks about it. That's
an interesting. we just basically repeat
the season, same topics, but we're going
to we're going to basically bring in
we're going to interview AI for each one
of those episodes and say, "Well, what
do you think?" And I think it'd be
really interesting to see with some of
them is maybe we do it first with just
like what does AI think about that
topic? And then we take because we could
we probably can take the um transcript I
don't know if it's it may be too big or
take part of the transcript of what we
did maybe our blog summary and shove
that into AI and say you know okay based
on this what are your thoughts or
something like that. So I think like I
think a rehash of that prior season
would be a really fun one to see and it
also is going to I think it's going to
spark some other ideas and things like
maybe new challenges. So, thoughts on
that? Yeah, it's a lot that's a lot of
fun. And by the way, I believe the
transcripts will fit um because our
episodes are small enough that uh we
could we shouldn't have a problem doing
that.
So, we have a season topic. This is
awesome. We're going to take a prior
season topic and we're going to pump it
through AI and see what happens. I'm I'm
already excited to see how this one
goes. I have a feeling it's going to get
really interesting really fast. We'll
try to we're going to have to keep it
short how much we integrate AI because I
have a feeling we're going to have a
commentary on every one of its answers
essentially. All right. So, we have
achieved our goal of a season topic. So,
this season we're going to take the
prior season building better developers
with AI. So, like you could think of it
with like a little uh super script like
with AI now with AI or something like
that. We're just going to we're like
everybody else. We are jumping on the
band bandwagon. We're going to do the
same thing we did. Now, we're going to
add AI and see what happens. And I have
a feeling this is going to be really fun
and and uh educational as well as far as
what a what AI will give us and what
maybe it may maybe where it could may
lead us astray, things like that.
Hopefully, we won't be starting up
Skynet anytime soon based on these
questions. That being said, we're going
to wrap this one up. As always, love to
hear your feedback, your thoughts.
[email protected]. Shoot us an email.
Leave us comments wherever you're
watching this or listening to this,
whether it's out on any wherever you
listen to podcasts. If you're going
somewhere where you don't hear us, we're
not there, where you grab podcast and
we're not there, let us know. This
should be we should be everywhere, but
hey, stuff pops up. We may not be there
yet. Love to add it there. Uh YouTube,
the developer channel, we have got oh
gosh, we've got to have close to a
hundred episodes of the podcast in video
form. And then before that, we've got
I'm I'm pretty sure over 100, maybe 200
different episodes of howto's of mentor
presentations. There's a lot of content
back there. Was working with somebody
just the other day and was just talking
about like my the RV consulting site and
happened to mention, oh, by the way,
there's the developer site and they like
their jaw hit the ground with like
that's a lot of content that like that's
a game-changing amount of content based
on what you were just saying that well,
you know, I've got a few blogs here and
a few things. It's like no, there's a
lot of stuff there. So, I'm just saying
that so that you can go out there and
and take advantage of it. You know,
definitely. And if you have questions
about any of that stuff, no matter how
old it is, we're happy to, you know,
feel that, update the comment, the
content if we need to or whatever it is
to help you become a better
developer today. Go out there and just
be a better human as well as a better
developer. Go out there and have
yourself a great day, a great week, and
we will talk to you next time.
I'm going to start with what would be a
good bonus
content for episode one. Let's see what
that is. So, that's our bonus content
this time around. A great bonus content
idea would be something fun, practical,
and immediately useful helping listeners
reinforce what they've learned or
explore beyond the episode. Here's a few
great options tailored for your casual,
fun, and educational tone. So I'm just
going to go there's like bullet points
with each of these which actually I'll
give you the first one then we'll go
into others. I don't want to get too
far. One play with AI mini lab PDF plus
GitHub link. Provide a downloadable mini
project a simple Python notebook or
sprint or script using transformers
scikitlearn or open AI libraries.
Example build a basic chatbot with GPT
or create an AI generated poem from your
name. It's funny I've used both of those
in some of the stuff I was just going
through. Add comments and links to
resources for each section. GitHub link
with a few branches beginner version
plus stretch goals title playground AI a
15 minute chatbot chatbot
project uh other one extended interview
clip or AMA an extra 5 to 10 minute clip
uh basically some discussion stuff like
that we normally do uh AI glossery quick
uh quick guide a onepage downloadable
PDF with a lot of terms and definitions
uh interactive AI tool list for devs a
curated notion Google doc markdown list
kind of thing. Um, so that's actually
some pretty cool little bonus things.
So, we may have to we may even like ping
AI for our bonus stuff going out of
that. Your thoughts, bonus material from
you? Yeah. So, one of the things uh I
like the playground idea, but uh the
bonus of this, if you are writing
software and you you're just not sure
where to begin with using AI, start with
take a section of code, throw it into
AI, and say, "Write me a test for this."
So, if you're in Java, say, "Write me a
unit JUnit test." If you're in Python, a
pi test, whatever. But start with
testing. see what it does for testing
because you're less likely to break
something through a test than actually
modifying your existing code. So if
you're going to kind of get into AI, I
think coming at it with a test-driven
approach is kind of me a more fun way
because one, you're testing your code,
but two, you find ways of how to test
your code that maybe you never thought
to test or oh, I didn't know the user
could do that. And and you find you
uncover things that you didn't think of.
I think that's actually a perfect
example. I got I I know I gave my bonus
stuff, but I want to add to that. That
is something that I found that is that
kind of repetitive coding stuff that if
you're thinking about it, you sort of
know how you want to, you know, you
there's that sort of list we've talked
about with testing where you want to
test like, you know, the happy path and
when there's missing variables and
there's stuff out of range and stuff
like
that. AI is not going to necessarily get
all of those, but you can add those by
starting with here's my code. write some
tests for it and it's going to give you
a good start. It's going to give you a
good framework and then you can always
say also add tests for A, B, C and D and
it will give you those additional ones
and it's really a good way to get
through testing that can take it can
take a while to write the test. Now I
will warn you sometimes the tests that
it generates are going to cause you
problems but a lot of times the reason
going to cause you problem is because
your code isn't right. that there's
something your code's not catching or
the code's not thinking about and then
it's going to catch it and now suddenly
it's like well that test doesn't succeed
correct because it's not supposed to
because you didn't write the code right.
So there's a lot of things like that
that are uh like the testing thing that
I think are great for AI where it's like
you know there's a bulk of code. It's a
it's a classic create a class that has
these properties and has these methods
and stuff like that. You can get AI to
generate that from a sentence or two
very quickly and then go back and then
tweak the code as you need to. And then
there's there's so many other little
things like that where it's it seems
little. It may save you five or 10
minutes, but if you can, you know, go
from 10 minutes to one minute on a
couple of tasks a day, the next thing
you know, you've saved a half hour, an
hour. So, there really is a lot of value
in that. And I think that's a that's a
perfect place to start is, especially if
you haven't written unit tests, if you
don't know how to test in whatever your
language
is, it will give you a great start on
that and then you can go from there to
build out something that is is much more
valuable. We are going to wrap this one
up. I'm I'm already pumped. I'm so
excited to get into see, you know, two
and three and we've got to go back and
and grab those episode topics and make
sure that we're ready with them next
time around. It's also going to really
mess up though our pre-show because
we're actually going to know what we're
going to talk about each week. This I
haven't done this in gosh, I don't know
how long since the interviews. The
interviews and even then I didn't know
what we're going to talk about. I just
knew who we were going to talk to. So,
it's been a long time since we've come
into an episode essentially knowing what
the episode's going to be about
beforehand. This may test like our
marketing skills because now we can say
next week we're going to talk about this
and we actually know what we're going to
talk about as opposed to join us next
week and see what crazy topic we come up
with. Thank you again for your time,
your patience for putting up with us. I
hope that you are entertained as as we
are with this and moving forward because
I think this is going to be a really
good one. So, if you especially if you
haven't really messed around with AI or
you're not really sure what it can do, I
think it's going to be this season for
you. I think it's going to be really uh
a great introduction into it. It's not
necessarily going to get super deep,
although we might I may go share out
like I've got a a chatbot that I grabbed
from somewhere that was mostly built
through some AI stuff and things like
that. It's like, well, hey, how about
adding this, how about adding that? Uh,
and it uses just that's why I have the
paid version of uh the open AAI of chat
GPT is so that I can use that API and
make some calls and there's some really
cool stuff that comes out of it. So, uh,
we'll see how far we get into it. I've
spent too much time. This is almost off
the rails if not completely. So, go out
there and have yourself a good one and
we will talk to you next time.
[Music]
Transcript Segments
1.35

[Music]

27.279

Let me go over here. Here's what I'm

28.96

thinking. We were going to we discussed

30.96

the idea of doing like every episode AI

35.52

gen you know talk to AI do a little chat

37.52

GPT work and see what it has to say. I

40.719

think I want to start with because I

42

think what would be a good thing to do?

44.559

I had a couple. The one that came to

46.079

mind would be let's ask chat GPT what

48.32

would be a good season of developor and

52.64

spend a little time going down that

54.32

rabbit hole and my my concern is that

56.8

we're going to get such a good time like

58.399

that's going to be our season which is

60.239

okay or we're going to have this where

63.52

we're just going to step in we'll have a

64.879

question of the day basically and spend

66.4

a little chat GBT time talking about its

69.68

responses and things like that and maybe

71.56

even a little bit of a game almost of

73.84

like well where do we think it's going

74.88

to take us and stuff like that because I

77.119

think there's some really cool areas we

80.08

can go and say

81.96

okay you like common knowledge and

84.24

things like

85.08

that the um like what's the you know

88.88

what's a great language to learn for

90.88

programming you know things like that

92.079

some of these things that people

93.04

probably have their their reasons for it

95.439

but we'll do it and we'll see what it

96.96

what it tells

98.2

us so how about that for the first one

102.079

yeah on chat you can see go ahead and

104.96

and yeah and see where that goes. And I

107.28

guess at the end of that though, we got

108.72

to figure out what our season is so I

110.399

know how to It does. By the end of this,

111.92

we're going to be like, this is going to

112.96

be our season. It may just be more AI,

115.6

but it may be whatever that title is.

118.92

So, this is definitely going to be

122.479

people seeing how the sausage is made

124.479

with a three, a two, a one. Well, hello

128.08

and welcome back. We are building better

130.56

developers. We are in a new season. We

133.52

just finished up our prior one and we

135.04

are starting a new one. We don't even

136.959

know what the season topic is going to

138.4

be yet. More on that later. First

140.879

introductions. I am Rob Broadhead, one

142.56

of the founders of de

144.04

developer, also a founder of RB

146.4

Consulting, where we are, as some people

149.28

call it, a boutique consulting firm

151.599

where, in our case, we sit down, we're

154.08

very specific about working with our

156

customer to figure out where they're at,

158.64

what is their business, what is the

160.48

goals, what are some of the things that

161.92

are their secret sauce, and then craft a

164.959

specific recipe for them of using

168

technology and a roadmap to be better in

171.68

the future, a better business based on

174

leveraging technology. And that includes

175.92

things like simplification, integration,

178

automation, innovation. Whether you're

180.08

you've got a custom app that needs to be

181.92

rebuilt, whether you've got something

183.2

needs to be upgraded, whether you've got

184.879

too many cooks in the kitchen, you need

186.4

to integrate some of those systems, give

188.48

yourself a single dashboard, those kinds

190.4

of things. We're going to help you find

191.92

the best solutions out there because we

193.68

play in that world all the time. You

196.159

don't. So, we're going to allow you to

198.4

keep doing your business, do more to

200

work on your business, and we're going

201.599

to help you the in your business part go

204.319

a little smoother and a little faster.

206.8

Good things, bad things. Um, so Memorial

211.04

Day was just this last week. Um, it was

214.48

a rainy, rainy day. It was a crappy day

217.519

and we were in a little town in

218.879

Tennessee where basically everything

220.56

shuts down for Memorial Day and then

222.4

also was just shut down in general

224

because it was, you know, not very good

225.92

weather. And by it wasn't like pouring

227.84

rain, but it was like just a little bit

229.04

of drizzle. So, it's the stuff where you

230.319

can be out in it. It's just not

232.159

comfortable to do it for a long period

233.519

of time. That was the bad thing. Well,

235.599

actually, part of that was the places we

238.48

wanted to go for breakfast were all

239.84

closed. We ended up having it at a a

241.92

fast food restaurant because we just

243.519

like we wanted some food. We were

244.959

hungry.

246.4

got in, got our food. This is where the

248.64

good thing is. We got out a lot faster

250.4

than we would have. And so we were just

251.68

walking through this downtown area and

253.599

stumbled across a Memorial Day

255.2

celebration. We got there like just as

257.199

it started, like they were just starting

259.199

the first part of it and got to be a

261.359

part of, you know, by part of got to

263.36

witness the entire ceremony and all that

265.84

kind of stuff. So it was really good to

267.28

be able to actually embrace Memorial Day

270.16

in this little town and and all of their

272.16

thanks to the vets and things like that.

274.04

So sometimes the bad things do lead us

277.36

to good things. For example, my bad

279.759

introduction is going to lead you to

281.199

hopefully a good introduction for

282.8

Michael. Go ahead. Hey everyone, my name

285.36

is Michael Malashsh. I'm one of the

286.72

co-founders of building better

288

developers, also known as developer. I'm

290.479

also the founder of a company called

292

Envision QA where we work with

294.32

businesses small and large to help you

297.759

streamline your business. You could be

299.919

struggling with outdated software. you

302.08

could be struggling to find the right

303.6

software to help you run your business.

306.4

We step in, we work with you, we help

308.479

you, we walk through the process with

310.88

you, we understand your processes and

312.72

procedures, and then we kind of put

315.039

together that assessment and help you

317.039

figure out where your pain points are

319.12

and how to improve your business. And

321.199

then through the process, we will help

323.12

you establish what you need to be a more

326.32

productive and streamlined uh business

328.96

so you can make your customers happy and

330.639

actually hopefully bring in more money.

333.039

Good thing, bad thing? Well, similar to

335.68

Rob, you know, Memorial Day was just the

338.56

past weekend. Unlike Rob, I had tsunami

342.479

like weather most of the weekend. There

345.12

were days looking out my window, you

347.199

literally couldn't see 5t past the deck.

350.88

There was so much rain. It was like

352.72

Niagara Falls. But the first day, uh,

356.479

the Friday evening after the rainstorms,

358.72

it was sunny for about 6 hours and then

361.12

3:00 in the night, we had hail, wind,

364.24

storms. It it just and then it's like,

366.24

okay, here we're going to be clear for

367.919

about 4 hours and then boom, here's

369.68

another tsunami. Uh the good side of

373.68

that was uh my pond is back all the way

377.44

up again. It was kind of going down. Um

380.4

and my garden is looking nice and

382.4

healthy. It may be overwatered at this

384.24

point and I need a few days of sun, but

385.919

the good thing is I don't have to worry

387.68

about watering my garden or my yard for

390.08

quite a while.

392.72

So this season we talked about a couple

395.12

of things and one of the things that we

396.319

had come across was the idea of maybe

399.039

integrating AI into each episode so that

401.36

there would be like maybe a question or

403.039

something like that that we would go

404.319

with. And in thinking through it, I

406.88

think what we want to do this time is

408.24

we're going to actually use AI

410.36

potentially to figure out what our

412.4

episode or season's topic is going to

414.88

be. So I'm going to walk through this

416.96

just chat GPT. I'm going to walk through

420

asking it some questions and we'll see

422.319

what it says and we'll sort of go down

424

some of these rabbit holes. So the first

426.4

question is I said what are good season

428.56

topics for the developer-building better

430.96

developers podcast and the funny thing

434.16

is is it gives me uh looks like eight

437.72

seasons

439.4

of topics with about looks like about

442.24

five to six bullet points for each one.

444.8

So for example and some of these I think

446.639

we've done some of this season one from

450

developer to software craftsman focus is

453.039

foundational principles and mindset

454.72

evolution. They talk about clean code

456.319

and pra practice solid principles of

458.72

real life tech debt managing it and

460.72

avoiding it writing codes for humans and

463.28

future you uh test driven development

466.08

pros cons when they work. A lot of these

469.199

sound very familiar. Season two,

471.36

building better software projects.

473.36

Designing software with the focus is

475.919

project planning and architecture. Uh

478.24

designing software with scalability,

479.759

choosing the right tech stack,

481.039

estimating software projects that don't

483

suck. Requirements gathering for

485.199

developers, agile, scrum, conbon, what

487.12

works and why. Season three, security

490.72

for everyday developers. They talk about

492.56

OASP and a versus a z writing secure

495.96

APIs. Uh secrets management, secure by

499.12

design. Season four, developer tool

501.36

belt, mastering the tools. Uh things

504

like get internals every dev should

505.759

know, setting up CI/CD, Docker and

507.68

Containers 101, monitoring and logging,

509.919

using ids like IDE like a power user. Uh

513.279

season 5 full stack fundamentals,

515.44

front-end frameworks comparisons, R

518.24

versus GraphQL, backend with Spring

520.399

Boot, Node or Django, databases, DevOps

523.839

basics for developers. Uh, season six,

526.56

career development for developers.

528.24

Building a portfolio, certifications,

530.24

are they worth it? How to prep for

531.68

interviews, avoiding burnout, becoming a

534.16

tech lead without burning out? Season

536.64

seven, AI and automation for developers.

539.36

How is AI changing coding, prompt

541.519

engineering, automating repetitive tra

543.839

tasks with scripts, ML basics, ethics of

547.959

AI, season 8, the last one it gave us,

550.399

communication and teamwork, writing

552.48

better documentation, giving and

553.92

receiving code reviews, navigating tech

555.76

debt, working with non-technical

557.6

stakeholders, mentorship and pair

559.8

programming. And then it says afterwards

562.16

it says, "Well, let me know your show's

563.44

tone or audience level, junior devs,

565.68

team leads, indie hackers, etc., and I

567.76

can help customize these topics further

569.36

or outline a full episode structure per

571.68

season." So, let's pause there. What are

574.64

your thoughts on this? So, it it's kind

577.12

of funny because we have actually

579.88

covered most of that at least in like

583.2

the first two seasons. It mentioned the

585.519

last one definitely. Uh, some of the

588.32

other stuff goes back to some of the

590.48

kind of hands-on videos we did with our

592.56

coding and that back in the day, some of

594.16

the security stuff we did.

597.16

Um, it kind of prompted me to want to uh

600.16

there's some topics there that would be

602.8

better served, I think, as uh going back

605.6

to our kind of how-to videos with kind

608.8

of walking through software. But the AI

611.92

one was interesting because the biggest

613.68

one I hear a lot and I struggle with

615.76

this one too is prompting AI to kind of

619.12

give you what you need. You know that

622.8

that's one of the biggest struggles with

624.64

AI because you it's like Dragon

627.36

Naturally Speaking. You have to train it

629.2

to understand your way of thinking and

632.399

then once you've spent enough time with

634.88

it, you can pretty much just start with

636.88

one question and then say okay and give

639.279

me more or hey that's not quite right do

641.76

this like you are training AI but AI is

645.76

also training you into how to kind of

647.76

your if then responses to the

649.92

conversation that you're having.

652.399

Exactly. And that's that's part of the

654.72

problem I've I've seen in a couple of

656.16

cases, for example, that I've had more

657.92

than a few that have gotten

660.12

mindbendingly circular because there's

662.72

two, you know, essentially there's like

664.399

two versions of solutions and it'll keep

666.959

bouncing back and forth between of them

668.399

and it'll get all the way through one

669.68

and it'll be like, well, hey, have you

670.8

tried this? And it goes all the way

671.68

through and then you go back to the

672.56

other and then you're like, wait a

674.079

minute, which one am I doing? And it'll

676.079

sometimes mix and match some of those uh

678.56

some of the key periods. It's like make

680.72

sure you do X, but it'll have it in the

683.12

wrong stack of of steps essentially. So

686.48

there's there's definitely some stuff

688.079

there where you have to train it. You

690.079

have to do some trial and error and let

692.079

it know things like, hey, this is what I

694.959

tried and this is what I'm getting. So,

697.12

you know, those kinds of and it'll

698.399

always be like, thank you. I needed that

700.16

extra context. Here's some other crap.

702.64

And it really is good for getting you

704.079

through those u the the walls that we

707.279

put up or you know writer's block and

708.959

and things like that. So maybe that's

711.839

where that sort of points to maybe we'll

713.839

we'll stick with this. So what do you

715.04

think? Should we what should we give it

716.72

for let's see give a little bit more. So

718.64

like what do we want to say the audience

720.24

level is or maybe the tone?

722.959

Uh let's go. So I think AI is still

726.079

fairly new. Uh so I would say uh the

731.279

audience is going to be AI novice but

735.279

probably mid-level developer

740.16

go with that. Although this is you know

742.399

focusing a little on AI but let's go

744.16

with this. So I'm going to say the tone

745.519

is fun and educational. Let's say

747.279

casual. Now it's interesting too. Um,

750.56

are you using the paid version or the

752.24

free version? Because there are

753.44

differences between the two and we need

755.76

to throw that out. The paid version I've

759.6

got like the the low end of that. So,

761.04

it's using whatever the chat GPT4 four

763.519

five whatever the latest version is

765.04

which you get that I think even free you

766.72

just get like very limited amounts of

768.72

it. And then it has to do with its uh

771.12

how fast it will respond as well. So,

772.72

I'm going to say this tone is casual,

774.24

fun, and educational. audience is an AI

776.32

novice but midlevel

779.639

developer. Let's see what it says

782.68

here. Perfect. With a casual, fun, and

785.44

educational tone and an audience of

787.2

mid-level developers who are AI

788.639

noviceses, you can strike a balance

790.079

between technical depth and beginner

791.519

friendly explanation. Here's a refined

793.6

set of season themes tailored. So, uh,

797.04

AI for the rest of us, season one theme,

799.68

demystify a IML for everyday devs tone.

802.88

You don't need a PhD to understand this

804.639

stuff. Episodes. What the heck is AI

807.12

really? ML versus AI versus data

809.36

science. Buzzword bingo. How chat chatpt

812.32

PT chat GPT like my speaking kind of

816.079

works which is a really good little

817.36

topic. Cool projects to try with AI

819.6

APIs. AI tools that actually make you

821.839

faster and some that don't. Prompt

824.24

engineering like for developers. Bias

826.399

hallucinations and other weird owl

828.44

quirks. Not or weird AI quirks. We're

832.079

now a little bit different, I

833.959

guess. Uh, season two, the developer

836.32

tools shed. They get back into that. Um,

839.36

they really just check get tips you'll

840.959

wish you knew last year. CI/CD without

843.88

tears. Docker's containers and WTF is a

847.199

volume IDA short IDE shortcuts debugging

850.16

like Sherlock Holmes. So really it looks

852.16

like what it's doing here is it's mostly

854.16

giving us

857.44

uh some

859.16

moderified topic or titles but roughly

862.639

the same kind of subject. So let's see.

865.36

Would you like help unw outlining one

867.6

full season's episode, scripting an

869.36

intro or picking guest tools to

871.36

highlight?

873.16

So, how do we want to let's uh let's see

877.04

kind what were the first two uh AI for

880.16

the rest of us and the developer tool

881.76

shed. You want to do season one? Let's

883.839

see what that does. Yeah, I kind of like

886.639

the first one that that one on season

891.92

because it kind of goes really well with

893.44

from last season. So, because we do talk

896.24

a lot about developer tools and that,

898

but we also talk a lot about businesses.

900.92

So with AI especially, we can keep it

905.68

kind of for everyone uh be a developer

908.399

or a business.

911.68

So absolutely. Let's break down season

913.36

one AI for the rest of us and craft a

915.279

compelling, casual, and educational

917.199

intro for the season and each episode.

919.76

This season's goal is to make AI feel

921.76

approachable, practical, and fun for

923.279

mid-level devs who are just starting to

924.639

explore it. Season one, AI for the rest

927.68

of us. tagline, no math hats, no

929.839

buzzword fatigue, just real talk on how

931.68

developers like you can start using AI

934.68

today. Season intro first episode or

937.76

trailer. Welcome to the developer

939.68

building better developers. I'm okay.

942.48

I'm Rob. I'm going to do this like

944.079

verbatim. So, it's going to be AIish.

946.399

I'm Rob. In this season, we're diving

948.079

into something that's got everyone

949.199

buzzing, panicking, or pretending they

950.88

already know what it means, AI. But

952.959

don't worry, this isn't some dry

954.32

academic lecture or enterprise sales

956

pitch. for calling this season AI for

958.079

the rest of us. If you're a developer

959.6

who knows your way around a codebase,

961.04

but has no idea what the difference is

962.56

between a neural network and a pizza

964.079

delivery route, this is your season.

966.24

We'll break down the basics, explore

967.839

tools you can use right now, and talk

969.36

about how AI can help you, not replace

971.519

you. So, fire up your terminal, grab

973.44

your coffee, let's get smarter

976.279

together. I'll talk about the episode

978.24

one episode one breakdown real quick and

980.48

then let's I want to talk a little bit

981.6

more about what it just gave us. So,

983.44

episode one, what the heck is AI really?

985.519

Goal: Define AI in plain English with

987.36

relatable analogies. Talking points, AI

989.68

versus ML versus deep learning. How your

992.32

app can learn without hard coding

997

logic. Real world examples,

999.6

autocomplete, Netflix, prod fraud

1001.92

detection, what AI is not. Skynet soul

1005.04

having

1006.36

robots. So that's a pretty

1009.48

good episode to talk about it. Now, I

1012.48

want to go back to this is something

1014.16

I've

1015.399

found really fun with AI and a couple

1018.639

other things I've done. Yes, it's really

1021.199

good um pretty good for coding. You

1023.839

could there's a lot of stuff

1025.4

particularly very repetitive tasks that

1028.24

you can get coded real easy. So, the

1030.88

ones that I find that are I'm always

1032.64

going to have typos or something stupid

1034.16

like that that'll drag my, you know,

1036.24

productivity down are

1038.6

JavaScript functions and stuff like

1040.64

that.

1041.839

if you want to say, "Hey, I need to uh

1045.439

pop a shadow box when this value is

1048.319

above 100," and you give it that script,

1050.72

and then it'll give you here's how you

1052.4

modify your script, and it's pretty darn

1054.4

good. Now, sometimes it'll, you know,

1056.48

it'll mix a variable or something like

1058

that, which is down to the same kinds of

1060.16

stupid debugging that, you know, stuff

1061.52

that we will do if we have a typo, but

1064.16

particularly if it's something that's

1065.12

going to take you more than three lines

1066.4

of code, it is it could be very helpful.

1069.48

um or numerous times that I've had stuff

1071.919

where I know it's going to take like

1073.28

there's five steps each of those steps

1075.2

are going to take five to 10 lines of

1076.559

code and I can either write all that

1078.88

code and do it myself or I can take AI

1081.52

it's going to give me that template for

1083.44

lack of lack of better term I can then

1085.2

take that put it into my code tweak it

1087.52

as I need to and then I'm going to end

1089.6

up saving myself sometimes you know an

1091.919

hour or two of coding and and just the

1094.32

general walking through it's like how do

1096.08

I solve this problem again it's sort of

1097.919

like having your own code toolbox that

1100.16

we've talked about your own personal

1101.64

repository, but now it's something I

1103.919

don't even have to go out there. I can

1105.28

go to AI just as easily. I want to talk

1108.559

though a little bit about this is what

1110.96

do you think about like that that intro

1112.72

because I'm finding that it is very

1114.64

sometimes it writes some really

1116.24

compelling stuff with just a little bit

1117.84

of a tweak. Yeah, I I think that was

1120.4

actually a very good kind of summary to

1122.72

come back with for what we

1125.44

essentially could do for this whole

1127.12

season. Uh, one thing I will throw out

1129.52

though because you kind of mentioned

1130.72

using it to get little code snippets. I

1133.52

will throw this is one of those warnings

1135.52

of using AI and it's very similar to

1138.08

just surfing the web too to get an

1139.84

answer. Be careful what you ask. So like

1143.52

if you're actually looking for command

1145.36

line uh examples, don't just blindly

1149.28

copy and paste and run. you could crash

1151.6

your entire

1153.32

system. If you are doing things that

1156.559

require more security, more command

1158.559

line, AI is great, but still take their

1161.52

response and go Google it. Look at like

1164.64

maybe Stack Overflow. Look to add some

1166.72

reputable sites to get a little more

1168.64

research to confirm that, hey, this is

1170.799

the right approach and not something

1172.08

that's going to take me down or crash my

1175.12

entire network or software. Uh, I have

1177.679

had that happen. I but I've also had

1180.32

that happen from going to a site and

1181.919

following directions on something um

1184.48

from an actual manufacturer site and

1186.24

they had a typo and that typo caused

1189.2

things to go ary. So there are pros and

1192.08

cons to everything that we do and AI is

1195.28

no different. I think with that it's not

1197.679

just go to you know and this is where I

1199.76

think some people get into this loop of

1201.28

they're like oh they don't really know

1202.4

it so they'll go AI and then they'll go

1204

to Google they'll go backwards and

1205.2

forwards and you know compare a couple

1206.799

of those you should make sure that

1209.36

whatever the problem is you're solving

1210.799

that you understand the problem that

1212.4

you're solving what the solution should

1213.76

do just you know you should know that

1217.6

like I said the example I use these are

1219.039

the things that you should be able to do

1220.48

on your own because you need to be able

1222.88

to vet what it is that you're given And

1226.08

definitely take look very closely

1228.32

because there have been more than a few

1229.52

times that there yeah there's a typo or

1231.039

there's something that there's an

1232.08

assumption in whatever the response is

1234.96

that can cause you issues and and things

1236.96

like that. So like I said use it as like

1239.52

a a template or a suggestion or

1241.36

something like that and make sure you

1242.799

understand what it is that you're using.

1246.64

One of the things I've used before is I

1247.919

said, "Hey, go through it and change the

1250.88

variable names or the function names to

1252.88

something that matters to that makes

1254.4

sense that you would use just to be

1257.76

sure, you know, or just get a snippet of

1260.24

code that's going to require input from

1261.919

other places and then you're going to

1263.28

have to change the code anyways to

1264.72

handle that input and that's going to

1266.64

force you to touch it enough as opposed

1268.4

to just like the copy and paste, which I

1270.64

have seen way too often where you see

1272

the copy and paste and it's got comments

1273.52

in it that are basically this is where

1275.6

we do this. this is where we do that

1276.88

which is very AI like um and it's

1280.72

exactly what you're going to get if you

1282

throw code at it and say just comment

1283.6

this code it's probably going to give

1285.6

you the same kind of thing. So yeah it's

1289.6

uh as always take it with a grain of

1291.679

salt. So now what I'm going to do is

1293.679

let's do one more question into this and

1296.159

we'll see because who knows where we're

1297.52

going to go from the season still. It

1299.36

says, "Would you like help writing full

1300.799

episode scripts, interview questions for

1302.4

guests, or creating social snippets or

1304.48

summaries for each episode?" I'm gonna

1306.159

say yes, all three. And so, let's see

1309.2

what it comes. Oh, let's get you started

1311.679

with scripts, interview questions, and

1313.2

social media snippets for season 1,

1315.52

episode one. What the heck is AI really?

1318.52

So, oh, this works out pretty good.

1320.96

Episode script outline style, 15 to 20

1323.6

minutes. That's not bad. Uh, intro. Hey

1326.96

everyone, welcome to developer, building

1328.64

better developers. I'm Rob and today

1329.84

we're kicking off our season AI for the

1331.36

rest of us. This episode we're tackling

1332.559

the big question everybody asks, what

1333.919

the heck is AI really? And of course we

1336.88

could, you know, we could add to that.

1337.919

So this actually timing wise is going to

1339.12

be really good. Part one, defining AI

1341.84

without the buzzwords. And now it's got

1344.08

four bullet points. I'm not going to go

1345.44

too deep, but it's actually says part

1346.96

one, defining AI with the without

1349.039

buzzwords. Three minutes gives us some

1351.52

bullet points to go through. Uh classic

1353.76

analogy if traditional code is like a

1355.679

recipe. AI is like giving someone 100

1357.84

finished dishes and asking them to

1359.679

reverse engineer the ingredients. That's

1361.76

a really good

1364.159

uh analogy. Um part two, four minutes,

1369.039

AI versus ML versus deep learning. Um

1372.96

and basically, oh here's some bullet

1374.48

points for real world AI. Roomba that

1376.24

avoids furniture. ML is spam filter that

1378.64

learns from your inbox. um DL deep

1381.76

learning imagine class image classifier

1384

that tells cats from dogs all of which

1386.4

are really good AI solutions if you

1388.559

haven't looked into them uh probably do

1391.039

because there is a value to each of

1392.799

those for uh some of the things for

1394.72

probably any project or application

1396.48

you're doing you can find where those

1398.48

are going to be useful uh so that was so

1400.799

at three minutes four minutes another

1402.32

three minutes part three real world

1403.76

examples you already use uh part four

1406.72

what AI is not is another three minutes

1409.039

and then there's an outro of 2 minutes.

1410.72

Next week, we'll decode the jargon. NLP,

1412.72

transformers, LOMs. Don't worry, it

1414.4

won't hurt. Until then, try spotting how

1416.08

many AI powered things you interact with

1417.76

this week. Hint, it's probably more than

1419.36

you think. So, that's actually for a,

1422.64

you know, a summary. That's a really

1425.039

good, I think, approach to how we often

1427.36

do our our episodes. Here's some

1429.6

interview questions. Uh, optional

1431.2

segment or full episode. Uh, some guest

1434.08

interview questions would be, how would

1435.28

you explain AI to your non- tech family

1437.44

members? Uh, what was your first real

1439.44

world AI aha moment as a dev? What are

1441.679

some misconceptions developers have

1443.28

about AI? What's something AI is good at

1446.159

and something it's terrible at? Do you

1447.76

think every developer needs to learn

1449.6

machine learning or why or why not ML?

1452.48

Uh, social media snippets for Twitter X,

1455.44

LinkedIn threads. New episode drop. What

1458.159

the heck is AI really? Kicks off season

1459.919

one of developer. Perfect for devs who

1462

know code but not

1464.039

transformers. What's the difference

1465.76

between AI, ML, and deep learning? Hint,

1468

not just marketing. Season 1, episode

1469.84

one. Breaks it down in plain dev speak.

1472.32

Listen now with a link. And three, if

1475.2

your code is like a recipe, AI is a chef

1477.039

who figures it out just by tasting the

1478.88

dish. This and more metaphors in episode

1481.2

one of our new season, AI for the rest

1483.2

of us. So, thoughts on how AI has like

1487.12

laid out an episode for us.

1491.679

Yeah, I I've played around with AI a lot

1494.08

doing things like that and

1496.52

it's interesting how concise it kind of

1501.2

got down there probably because there's

1502.88

been a lot of conversations. I mean a

1504.64

lot of what we get out of the AIS like

1506.72

Czech GPT cop it's what's been fed into

1509.279

what it's been allowed to kind of scrape

1510.88

from the internet. So I think chat GPT

1514.24

is one of the fewer models that is a

1516.32

little more behind because I think it's

1518.96

I don't think that one's connected to

1520.72

the internet. So I don't think it can

1522.159

just go out at real time and just go

1524.159

scrape a site. Uh but Copilot and some

1526.96

of the other ones can. So I really like

1530.88

some of the ideas and topics it came up

1532.64

with. I I really like kind of that first

1535.039

uh first few top uh ideas because that's

1537.52

kind of what we've just done here,

1538.64

right? We just kind of walked through a

1540.799

brief overview what AI is. Uh some of

1544

those get a little deep though for kind

1546.96

of I think the direction of like the

1548.48

season should go like we I don't think

1550

we need to get

1552.279

too deep in the weeds with some of like

1555.6

the higher like the deep learning and

1557.2

machine learning. Uh outside of talking

1559.919

about them and giving some good

1561.12

examples. Uh, but I think for the first

1563.76

season, we should kind of keep it more

1565.12

at that interactive the the higher level

1567.279

AI. So, here's a thought I had as I was

1570.08

going through this one. I just checked I

1571.44

was in chat GPT and I was like, "Okay,

1573.039

what's the name of the latest post?"

1575.2

Because I figured that's, you know,

1576.4

newish and it actually went out to the

1578.64

web and then it gives me it basically, I

1580.4

guess, does its own effectively Google

1582.159

search or something like that, which is

1583.76

so it's pretty cool. It gives me some,

1585.2

you know, some good answers and stuff

1586.559

like that. Um, it doesn't give

1589.88

me it does give me like a a Wikipedia

1593.52

thing, a little bit of a and it comes

1595.279

from AP New. Oh, and it actually is

1596.72

giving me some good

1599.4

uh a nice little bibliography here. It's

1602.159

like, you know, here it is. Wikipedia

1603.84

plus 14, Reuters plus 7. Uh, a little

1606.799

bit more information. AP News plus two,

1608.64

Wikipedia plus one. Uh, here's something

1611.36

from Vox. So, it tells me where the

1612.799

sources are, which is really nice. Um,

1615.44

so you can always go back to those and

1616.88

it gives you some links to each of

1618.24

these. So, it does have some usefulness

1620.159

there. That being said, I don't want to

1622.24

digress too much. So, here's what I was

1624

thinking about that just sort of came to

1625.6

me for this season.

1627.44

How about we take a past season, uh

1630.32

maybe we go two seasons back where we

1632.72

had the the challenges, the building

1634.88

better developer, you know, focused on

1637.36

building better developers, and we take

1639.12

each episode and we talk about the

1642.08

topic, but now we're going to go to AI

1644.08

and see what AI thinks about it. That's

1646.24

an interesting. we just basically repeat

1648

the season, same topics, but we're going

1650.32

to we're going to basically bring in

1652

we're going to interview AI for each one

1654.08

of those episodes and say, "Well, what

1655.919

do you think?" And I think it'd be

1657.36

really interesting to see with some of

1659.6

them is maybe we do it first with just

1661.84

like what does AI think about that

1663.44

topic? And then we take because we could

1665.52

we probably can take the um transcript I

1668.48

don't know if it's it may be too big or

1670.24

take part of the transcript of what we

1671.679

did maybe our blog summary and shove

1674.08

that into AI and say you know okay based

1676.799

on this what are your thoughts or

1678.96

something like that. So I think like I

1680.64

think a rehash of that prior season

1683.279

would be a really fun one to see and it

1686

also is going to I think it's going to

1687.2

spark some other ideas and things like

1689.279

maybe new challenges. So, thoughts on

1692.64

that? Yeah, it's a lot that's a lot of

1695.44

fun. And by the way, I believe the

1697.12

transcripts will fit um because our

1699.679

episodes are small enough that uh we

1701.52

could we shouldn't have a problem doing

1703.039

that.

1705.44

So, we have a season topic. This is

1709.76

awesome. We're going to take a prior

1711.12

season topic and we're going to pump it

1713.44

through AI and see what happens. I'm I'm

1716

already excited to see how this one

1717.52

goes. I have a feeling it's going to get

1720.159

really interesting really fast. We'll

1721.6

try to we're going to have to keep it

1722.559

short how much we integrate AI because I

1724.159

have a feeling we're going to have a

1725.12

commentary on every one of its answers

1728.039

essentially. All right. So, we have

1730.96

achieved our goal of a season topic. So,

1734.08

this season we're going to take the

1735.52

prior season building better developers

1737.44

with AI. So, like you could think of it

1739.279

with like a little uh super script like

1741.44

with AI now with AI or something like

1743.52

that. We're just going to we're like

1744.72

everybody else. We are jumping on the

1746

band bandwagon. We're going to do the

1747.76

same thing we did. Now, we're going to

1748.88

add AI and see what happens. And I have

1750.88

a feeling this is going to be really fun

1752.24

and and uh educational as well as far as

1755.44

what a what AI will give us and what

1757.679

maybe it may maybe where it could may

1759.76

lead us astray, things like that.

1761.679

Hopefully, we won't be starting up

1763.279

Skynet anytime soon based on these

1765.559

questions. That being said, we're going

1767.6

to wrap this one up. As always, love to

1769.919

hear your feedback, your thoughts.

1773.159

[email protected]. Shoot us an email.

1775.2

Leave us comments wherever you're

1776.799

watching this or listening to this,

1778

whether it's out on any wherever you

1779.279

listen to podcasts. If you're going

1781.36

somewhere where you don't hear us, we're

1783.12

not there, where you grab podcast and

1784.399

we're not there, let us know. This

1786

should be we should be everywhere, but

1787.36

hey, stuff pops up. We may not be there

1789.2

yet. Love to add it there. Uh YouTube,

1791.76

the developer channel, we have got oh

1794.559

gosh, we've got to have close to a

1796.72

hundred episodes of the podcast in video

1800.32

form. And then before that, we've got

1802.159

I'm I'm pretty sure over 100, maybe 200

1804.48

different episodes of howto's of mentor

1807.919

presentations. There's a lot of content

1810.24

back there. Was working with somebody

1811.919

just the other day and was just talking

1813.279

about like my the RV consulting site and

1815.919

happened to mention, oh, by the way,

1817.12

there's the developer site and they like

1818.88

their jaw hit the ground with like

1820.48

that's a lot of content that like that's

1822.48

a game-changing amount of content based

1824.559

on what you were just saying that well,

1826.08

you know, I've got a few blogs here and

1827.36

a few things. It's like no, there's a

1829.52

lot of stuff there. So, I'm just saying

1831.76

that so that you can go out there and

1833.039

and take advantage of it. You know,

1834.799

definitely. And if you have questions

1836

about any of that stuff, no matter how

1837.2

old it is, we're happy to, you know,

1838.96

feel that, update the comment, the

1840.48

content if we need to or whatever it is

1842.159

to help you become a better

1845.96

developer today. Go out there and just

1848.559

be a better human as well as a better

1850.48

developer. Go out there and have

1851.919

yourself a great day, a great week, and

1854.24

we will talk to you next time.

1859.52

I'm going to start with what would be a

1862.96

good bonus

1867.32

content for episode one. Let's see what

1871.44

that is. So, that's our bonus content

1873.2

this time around. A great bonus content

1876.24

idea would be something fun, practical,

1877.919

and immediately useful helping listeners

1880.399

reinforce what they've learned or

1882.24

explore beyond the episode. Here's a few

1884

great options tailored for your casual,

1885.44

fun, and educational tone. So I'm just

1888.159

going to go there's like bullet points

1889.279

with each of these which actually I'll

1890.96

give you the first one then we'll go

1892

into others. I don't want to get too

1893.12

far. One play with AI mini lab PDF plus

1896.64

GitHub link. Provide a downloadable mini

1899.039

project a simple Python notebook or

1900.72

sprint or script using transformers

1903.039

scikitlearn or open AI libraries.

1905.279

Example build a basic chatbot with GPT

1907.679

or create an AI generated poem from your

1909.76

name. It's funny I've used both of those

1911.679

in some of the stuff I was just going

1912.96

through. Add comments and links to

1914.72

resources for each section. GitHub link

1916.88

with a few branches beginner version

1918.72

plus stretch goals title playground AI a

1921.76

15 minute chatbot chatbot

1924.2

project uh other one extended interview

1927.44

clip or AMA an extra 5 to 10 minute clip

1930.559

uh basically some discussion stuff like

1932.159

that we normally do uh AI glossery quick

1935.679

uh quick guide a onepage downloadable

1938

PDF with a lot of terms and definitions

1940.799

uh interactive AI tool list for devs a

1943.039

curated notion Google doc markdown list

1945.44

kind of thing. Um, so that's actually

1947.919

some pretty cool little bonus things.

1949.519

So, we may have to we may even like ping

1952.96

AI for our bonus stuff going out of

1954.799

that. Your thoughts, bonus material from

1956.799

you? Yeah. So, one of the things uh I

1959.6

like the playground idea, but uh the

1962.24

bonus of this, if you are writing

1964.88

software and you you're just not sure

1967.679

where to begin with using AI, start with

1970.72

take a section of code, throw it into

1973.519

AI, and say, "Write me a test for this."

1976.559

So, if you're in Java, say, "Write me a

1978.88

unit JUnit test." If you're in Python, a

1981.44

pi test, whatever. But start with

1984.24

testing. see what it does for testing

1986.72

because you're less likely to break

1988.48

something through a test than actually

1991.279

modifying your existing code. So if

1993.12

you're going to kind of get into AI, I

1996.24

think coming at it with a test-driven

1998.679

approach is kind of me a more fun way

2001.919

because one, you're testing your code,

2004.159

but two, you find ways of how to test

2006.159

your code that maybe you never thought

2008.24

to test or oh, I didn't know the user

2010.559

could do that. And and you find you

2012.64

uncover things that you didn't think of.

2014.799

I think that's actually a perfect

2016.159

example. I got I I know I gave my bonus

2018.48

stuff, but I want to add to that. That

2020.08

is something that I found that is that

2021.679

kind of repetitive coding stuff that if

2025.039

you're thinking about it, you sort of

2026.32

know how you want to, you know, you

2028.72

there's that sort of list we've talked

2030.159

about with testing where you want to

2031.36

test like, you know, the happy path and

2033.2

when there's missing variables and

2034.799

there's stuff out of range and stuff

2036.08

like

2036.84

that. AI is not going to necessarily get

2039.36

all of those, but you can add those by

2041.44

starting with here's my code. write some

2044.08

tests for it and it's going to give you

2045.84

a good start. It's going to give you a

2047.6

good framework and then you can always

2049.44

say also add tests for A, B, C and D and

2052.32

it will give you those additional ones

2053.919

and it's really a good way to get

2055.879

through testing that can take it can

2058.56

take a while to write the test. Now I

2060.32

will warn you sometimes the tests that

2062.96

it generates are going to cause you

2064.919

problems but a lot of times the reason

2067.04

going to cause you problem is because

2068

your code isn't right. that there's

2069.599

something your code's not catching or

2071.28

the code's not thinking about and then

2073.2

it's going to catch it and now suddenly

2074.399

it's like well that test doesn't succeed

2076.32

correct because it's not supposed to

2078.32

because you didn't write the code right.

2080.8

So there's a lot of things like that

2082.159

that are uh like the testing thing that

2084.96

I think are great for AI where it's like

2087.679

you know there's a bulk of code. It's a

2090.24

it's a classic create a class that has

2092.8

these properties and has these methods

2094.56

and stuff like that. You can get AI to

2097.28

generate that from a sentence or two

2099.28

very quickly and then go back and then

2101.599

tweak the code as you need to. And then

2103.119

there's there's so many other little

2104.8

things like that where it's it seems

2107.04

little. It may save you five or 10

2109.119

minutes, but if you can, you know, go

2110.8

from 10 minutes to one minute on a

2113.28

couple of tasks a day, the next thing

2114.56

you know, you've saved a half hour, an

2115.92

hour. So, there really is a lot of value

2117.76

in that. And I think that's a that's a

2119.119

perfect place to start is, especially if

2120.96

you haven't written unit tests, if you

2122.56

don't know how to test in whatever your

2124.32

language

2125.32

is, it will give you a great start on

2128.72

that and then you can go from there to

2130.56

build out something that is is much more

2133.16

valuable. We are going to wrap this one

2135.359

up. I'm I'm already pumped. I'm so

2137.599

excited to get into see, you know, two

2139.44

and three and we've got to go back and

2140.72

and grab those episode topics and make

2142.72

sure that we're ready with them next

2144

time around. It's also going to really

2145.68

mess up though our pre-show because

2147.2

we're actually going to know what we're

2149.119

going to talk about each week. This I

2150.96

haven't done this in gosh, I don't know

2152.96

how long since the interviews. The

2154.8

interviews and even then I didn't know

2155.92

what we're going to talk about. I just

2156.88

knew who we were going to talk to. So,

2158.8

it's been a long time since we've come

2160.64

into an episode essentially knowing what

2162.8

the episode's going to be about

2164.079

beforehand. This may test like our

2166.4

marketing skills because now we can say

2167.92

next week we're going to talk about this

2170.16

and we actually know what we're going to

2171.839

talk about as opposed to join us next

2173.92

week and see what crazy topic we come up

2177.4

with. Thank you again for your time,

2180

your patience for putting up with us. I

2183.119

hope that you are entertained as as we

2185.04

are with this and moving forward because

2186.88

I think this is going to be a really

2187.92

good one. So, if you especially if you

2189.92

haven't really messed around with AI or

2191.68

you're not really sure what it can do, I

2193.599

think it's going to be this season for

2194.8

you. I think it's going to be really uh

2196.56

a great introduction into it. It's not

2198.32

necessarily going to get super deep,

2199.599

although we might I may go share out

2201.2

like I've got a a chatbot that I grabbed

2203.44

from somewhere that was mostly built

2204.88

through some AI stuff and things like

2206.48

that. It's like, well, hey, how about

2207.52

adding this, how about adding that? Uh,

2209.44

and it uses just that's why I have the

2210.96

paid version of uh the open AAI of chat

2214.24

GPT is so that I can use that API and

2217.119

make some calls and there's some really

2218.48

cool stuff that comes out of it. So, uh,

2220.64

we'll see how far we get into it. I've

2223.359

spent too much time. This is almost off

2225.599

the rails if not completely. So, go out

2228

there and have yourself a good one and

2229.28

we will talk to you next time.

2233.43

[Music]