Detailed Notes
Are you building a business — or just staying busy?
In this episode of Building Better Developers, we sit down with Army veteran and founder of Skillful Brands, Antwon Person, to talk about the real shift entrepreneurs need to make to move from side hustle to scalable company.
We cover: • Why being busy doesn’t build a business • The difference between a business coach and a niche mentor • When to hire a virtual assistant • The $10K/month leverage threshold • How to build systems before scaling • The mindset shift from business to company
If you’ve felt stuck, overwhelmed, or unsure when to scale — this episode breaks it down in practical terms.
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Follow-us on:
* [email protected] * https://develpreneur.com/ * https://www.youtube.com/@develpreneur * https://facebook.com/Develpreneur * https://x.com/develpreneur * https://www.linkedin.com/company/develpreneur/
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Season Setup 03:30 Meet Antwon Person 06:00 Eliminating Business Complexity 07:45 The Power of Mentorship 11:00 Business Coach vs Niche Mentor 12:45 Foundation Before Marketing 15:00 The $10K Leverage Phase 17:30 Mindset as the Biggest Blocker 19:30 Business vs Company 21:00 Transitioning From Military to Entrepreneurship 23:00 Finding Free Mastermind Groups 25:00 Networking Without Selling 28:00 Hiring and Managing Virtual Assistants
Transcript Text
Ow, that hurts. All right, there we go. As I was saying, Michael will join us uh momentarily here. I think he's joining. Yep, he's coming in. Um way we do the podcast is that we uh this is both audio and video. Uh we'll start here momentarily. basically we'll have like a you know hitting the record button on the video side of it and then we will uh that'll be out in um YouTube and then separately we'll have the audio that will go out on your normal you know podcast channels and things of that nature. Uh we'll do about an hourongish conversation. Uh we'll start with an introduction. I'll introduce myself, Michael introduce himself, I'll toss it to you to introduce yourself and really we'll just get going from there. Um, we've got a few good questions, but I have found very often that, um, really just in that that introduction, we have a lot of, you know, a couple jumping off points and we just start going from there. We'll just sort of go back and forth. >> Um, we try to keep it conversational. We try not to pepper you too much, but more than happy for you to share because people hear from us all the time. >> Okay. >> Uh, any questions? >> Uh, not right now. Okay. All right. Uh, Michael, audio all good. >> Uh, Antoine, would you mind speaking again? >> Uh, hello. >> Okay, you're a little low. Okay, that worked. I can make that work. >> Okay, we're all good. >> Yep. >> All right, then. We're just going to dive right into it with a little th uno. Well, hello and welcome back. We are continuing our season when we are What the heck are we doing? We're gonna have to restart this one. What is this season? >> Forward motion. >> Forward momentum. It's been too long. Wow. Keep that on the video for everybody gets that bonus. I have not blown that in a while. Wow. I was just ready. I was so excited to talk to Antoine, I forgot what we were doing. >> That's almost as bad as when you forget to hit record. >> Back it up. No forward motion on that one. One more time. Uno. Well, hello and welcome back. We are continuing our season. We are building on our foundation. We're taking step forwards. We are getting those blockers out of our way as we start into what is now a new year and actually fairly solidly into it. We are the building better developers podcast. We are developer. I am Rob Broadhead, one of the founders of developer, building better developers. also the founder of RB Consulting where we help you do a technology reality check. We help you sit down and figure out what it is you got and then what should you do moving forward. Good thing and bad thing. Good thing is I'm really excited about our guest today. A lot of cool stuff. Uh I think this is going to be a great conversation. It's a little different, a little more in the the entrepreneurial side than we've been in a little bit, but I think it's going to be great. Looking forward to it. bad thing is I was so excited that this is our second take for the introduction to this uh this time around which is very rare. Usually I just hit forget to hit record but this time totally flubbed it but now setting all that up. I'm not putting too much stress on Michael to not do the same. Go ahead and introduce yourself. Hey everyone, my name is Michael Malash. I'm one of the co-founders of Building Better Developers, also known as Developer. I'm also the founder of Envision QA, where we build and test custom software that eliminates the bottlenecks so your business runs smoother and grows faster. Good thing, bad thing. Uh, good thing, the weather may be cold, but we actually have sunshine. So, it's a beautiful day outside, but it's a balming 15°. At least we don't have the snow like we did last time. Uh, bad thing, it's 15° outside. It's We're still dealing with winter in Tennessee. Well, now I already said, you know, gave a little bit of a pump up here for our guest, but I'm going to let you go ahead and introduce yourself. Antoine, >> how you doing? My name is Antoine Pson. I'm an Army veteran of 22 years. Uh, I started a business called Skillful Brands and our focus is to help entrepreneurs eliminate the complexities of starting and running a business. >> Well, that's like perfect one. Uh, I just got to start with it is amazing to me and this may be a bias or something like that. Everybody I talk to that is ex-military and you say what do you do or what have you been doing? It is just like it is like a perfect answer is just like bam bam bam. They just rattle it right off. So if you hadn't if you hadn't said that you're ex-military I would have wondered I would maybe even have asked it's like do you have that in your background? There's just a level of of presentation that that has makes you want to like, you know, snap a salute or something like that. Sit up a little straighter. But I'm I'm digressing. I want to talk right into let like dive right into it. What is Let's go deeper into that. What are the complexities of of entrepreneurship and and starting a business that you guys really focus on? >> Uh yeah. So um one of the things so my journey uh started a little bit before you know entrepreneurship. So as as I spoke you know uh I spent 22 years in United States Army uh leading different type of organizations and when I transitioned out of the uniform I brought a lot of the principles that I learned there uh to shape and build the businesses that I'm currently doing at Skillful Brands. U my focus is to help you know entrepreneurs eliminate these complexities and what does that look like? So I understand what it feels like to be stuck in your business. I I understand the different things that you try um just to see if it will work. So I I will say the shift in my entrepreneur journey um started when I realized that you know being business being busy in your business does not build a business. Um you know the hustle that you have um you know I was hustling in my first business that I started um but I just I really just didn't have any structure. So, you know, I want to show entrepreneurs that, hey, you might need a mentor. You might need a mentor and you can't do everything yourself. You need help. You need to get guidance um early on in your business. >> Now, wow, there's a I wasn't expecting that one. That actually took us now in another different direction. So, what are you seeing? What is it? what should somebody look for um in in a mentor or getting that kind of guidance or getting somebody else to to help lead them a little bit, >> you know? So, I would say what I did um I started out, you know, being a real estate investor um and there was so many different uh gurus out there um that, you know, had different systems and techniques that they were using. What I did is I went to a local real estate investor meeting and I found the smartest person in the room and I started hanging around that person, seeing how they operated with clients and how they did that b their business. Um, and I tell everyone when you first start a business, having someone I will say hold your hand through the first transactions or first sales is very valuable because you it gives you the confidence to know that what you're doing is correct. Um, and I think that played um, dividends for you know me and gaining my confidence in the business world. Now, do you see that also as a way to help you as a as an entrepreneur to sort of know what you don't know by allowing somebody else that you can look up to like that to to sort of see what you want to be when you grow up? I guess for lack of better term, >> right? I would say, you know, the person that I connected with, I felt that they had the blueprint, you know, I did not know what I did not know. So I think when I connected with that person um I saw them do a few transactions and I was like okay this is how you you know structure this deal or this is the per paperwork that you need. So it just gave me the confidence to you know be a real estate investor and then that transition to other uh you know business endeavors as well. So, with the uh it's kind of interesting because what you're discussing is similar to what we've talked about in the past and what I've gone through because I relaunched my business 2 years ago and I went through um mentor uhish meetings. I went through like a co-starters program to kind of relaunch cuz I've been doing this for 25 years. One of the things you mentioned, you know, mentors and finding that person. Were you looking more for like a business mentor to help you like how were they successful or were you trying to find someone in your niche to help you perfect what you were trying to sell or promote as far as your business? >> Yeah, that's so funny that you um that you say that. So, I spoke to another client last week and they were asking me uh they were a new business and they were asking me, "Hey, do I need a a mentor in my niche or do I just need a business coach?" And my advice to that person is when you're first starting out your business, you're getting the mic the right mindset and structure in place. It does not have to be someone in your in your niche because uh at the foundation of any business uh is the same. So some sometimes uh you know people put the wrong step in the wrong phase of their business. So I truly believe that uh a business coach is a business coach at the foundation level and have to have a f strong foundation. All businesses need the same the proper mindset the proper structure and system. Then once you reach another phase of your business then you may want to leverage someone else that is in your industry. >> Nice. I I like that distinction because so many times throughout my career, I've run into situations where I found like the right person, but at the wrong time. It's like, yes, this is great, but it's not really helping me with the problem I have. It's helping me with that next problem or that next scenario. It it is very interesting to hear someone else put it down that way that yes, you need the business foundation first and the niche later. I I really understand that and love that. >> Um >> and I will say that um you know that's why I preach framework uh heavily because there are gurus out there but a lot of times they'll have you working on phase two or three of your business in phase one. So, you know, they might have you working on marketing, building your website, things that are pretty because, you know, it's tailored to their business, but really you need to be trying to get the mindset and just the structure down of your business first. Um, and that that may take a six months to a year. Um, and I consider that the proof of principle for your business. Get the foundation done first and then you can transition into phase two. That that's great. It's a very solid advice. Um so based on your experience and the different um scenarios we just laid out here, you know, working on the business or working on the niche, what are some of the things that you see new entrepreneurs or even experienced entrepreneurs struggle with or make the mistake with their business starting out or even, you know, they could be established, but they're still doing it wrong. they're not fully um reaching their full potential of their business. >> Uh so, you know, just like uh when I started my business, just like other entrepreneurs, I had a full-time job. Um I was I was also, you know, a husband and a father and I was trying to run a part-time business. Um but before you know it, I realized that uh the involvement of running that full-time business became a full-time requirement. Um, so you know, I use that lesson as I move forward. Um, and I realized that most a lot of other businesses are are facing the same thing. Um, you know, they're trying to build a business. Um, and they just don't have the right structure in place. Um, so I will say that, you know, one, uh, the passion that they have for that business, sometimes it takes a little more than passion because that passion can't, uh, run your calendar. Um, it can't close sales. um it can't you know promote your business. So you act you have to actually get a good system in place. You have to find a great mentor and then realize that you can't do it all on your own. You need a you need to hire a VA or someone that can help you actually manage your business. Now, what do you see as um this is a little bit of a loaded question because this is something I actually preach and and consult on on a regular basis, but um what do you see as the the point where you need to get as an entrepreneur where you need to start putting those systems in place or and I guess sort of in the same lines um I want to pair this a little bit to give you a little more runway with this is uh put systems in place but also bring in uh assistants or VAS or or something that fits that role. >> Yeah. So, um the system that I currently have um I usually talk about because all businesses are different and what they want to accomplish. So, you know, I usually set a monetary value with a lot of the clients that um I train. So, you know, proof of principle, I usually tell them up to 10K a month. If you want to make up to 10K a month, you really can do that on your own. Over 10K a month, you may transition into something different. So, it may not be because mindset and systems are probably the toughest thing that I see business owners need to wrap their head around. Once they get the mindset and the structure right, if they're doing it correctly, following our system, you know, they'll be about at 10K a month. Once you get over that, you want to transition to maybe doing some type of marketing and maybe hire a VA to assist you. Um, and I I consider that as the uh leverage um phase of the business. Um, where you really would need to maybe hire a VA, but up to 10K a month based on your business, you more than likely could do that on your own without burnout, you know, without confusion and things like that. >> I love that is where you get to that leverage point. I love using that how you use that uh phrase for that because I think that's great. I've I've often heard of it referred to as like going into growth mode or something like that. But I love the leverage because that that I think ties it back down to like you need somebody to help with that leverage. You need something to you know push on that lever. >> Now how do you see you mentioned that it's uh entrepreneurs have a hard time getting their head around this you know this step. what are some of like the blockers or the mental uh you know challenges that they have in doing so? Uh so one they listen to multiple different people um because there's multiple different systems out there and you know and what I what I share with a lot of people is uh a lot of the systems are really the same but gurus put their own spin on the same information and maybe word it differently or give it a different name. So you know uh that's that you know the first thing just understanding that like getting started is the main point. Uh a lot of people are nervous they don't get started but getting started talking to other investors just being on mentor u podcast being in uh mastermind groups and other groups there's a lot of free tools out there um that they could use just to get confidence in their in their ability to run their business. And I think that's the one of the biggest things just having the confidence to be able to move forward. >> Wow. That is perfect for our season focus of you know getting unstuck and moving forward is just some you just got to take that step. Um I I highly agree then and sometimes it feels like just any step just making that decision to make a step is better than you know no step at all is you getting that forward momentum. So, is that something is it do you find that that's challenging or is it usually something that that goes over pretty quickly and and entrepreneurs are like, "Yeah, that makes sense. I'm just going to go ahead and and dive in." Or is there is it is it in itself a big challenge? I >> I think uh in in the in the model of business, the mindset is probably the toughest thing that uh entrepreneurs need to get uh over um to actually make their their business grow. Once they can get the proper mindset, uh I think everything else is very simple. The mindset that they can't do it all by theirel. They need to hire get the proper help. Uh once they realize that, uh I think they're they can, you know, have a successful business. But a lot of businesses fail because one, they don't get started or they just can't get the mindset of that, hey, I'm actually running a business versus, you know, a side hustle. Oh, that's a that's a great uh transition I think and one that I think a lot of people in our audience can can somewhat relate to or that challenge is and I'd love you to go a little deeper in that is the mindset of we talk about the the side hustle mindset versus the like you know launching a business or entrepreneurial mindset. >> Uh yes. So I I know a lot of people use these terms u interchangeable. So a b a business versus a company. So, um, what I try to, um, tell individuals like when you're running a business, you're definitely involved in the day-to-day operations, but I ask them, is your goal to transition that into a company for, you know, legacy where you can step away and organization, continue to run? Um, so, you know, if you you're just trying to do it for a side hustle and just have a business, I understand that because you have a passion. But if you want to step away and leave that for generational wealth, you your goal should be able to establish a company where you can step away and your organization can continue to run. >> So looking at your journey, so you talked about when you started out, you were working part-time on your business and you were working full-time. Um there's a lot of people I know that have gone through that situation are still in that situation and they're running, you know, headlong into both situations. When did you find it time to pull the the plug, quit the day job and solely focus on the business and grow it into that company? >> So I I will say that when I realized that I I was stuck and I didn't know where else to go. So you know, for me, I had an obligation to the military. So, um, I actually got a partner for, uh, one of the businesses that I was running that was very informative and we kind of like worked together to while I was still still in the military. When I transitioned out of the military, I just knew that I didn't want to go work for another company and I had a passion for helping other people. So, you know, that for me, uh, I knew at that point I needed to actually get a coach in the industry that I that I wanted to work in. So I went and hired a actual business coach to make sure that what I was transitioning from the military the principles you know and things like that would transitioning in leadership values would transition into being a business coach. Um so I will say that you know when your your business is stuck and not progressing um it's probably time for to get a business coach. >> Nice. Uh so you've talked a lot about these mastermind meetings and finding these coaches. What is your suggestion to people to help find them? You know, because a lot of people are virtual. It there's, you know, lots of noise on the internet. Everyone's shouting, you know, I'm a great coach, you know, and even locally, you know, there's certain um areas I found beneficial. Like I've mentioned before, I found a co-starters program here locally. I was able to plug into local businesses. But what's your recommendation for, you know, startups or even those established? how to help them find coaches and find people that they need to talk to to help grow their business. >> Yes. So, there's there is a lot of programs out there that have paid that are paid programs. And I'm I'm not advocating for a paid versus a free program, but you just have to get out there, you know, get online, start searching. I actually, you know, within the last two weeks from just networking with other people have found two very um great programs that are free. um you just show up and you share information and all programs are not the same but I feel like you could learn something from every program. One of the takeaways from my last uh meeting that I just I've only attended it one time because you know another uh person told me about it is for example when you're doing Zoom meetings and things like I never thought about this but um you know when you're doing a a meeting or you're in a mastermind everyone says say so tell me about a little bit about you and then post your information in the chat. One of the things that one of the guys did that I took away, he he created a QR code. He put it on his Zoom background. So, as as he was talking, he was like, "Hey, if you want to find out about me a little bit more, you can scan this QR code here and all of my information uh comes up." And I know that might be small, but that was something that I took away from, you know, uh a meeting that was free um and everyone shared valuable information. So you can always get uh valuable information from free uh you know uh groups. You don't have to pay you know but they do have BNI um and a couple of other um programs that are out there. >> One other thing. Go ahead. >> Uh just one other thing. So I love that. So I I love the tip about the Zoom that that QR code. That's a great idea and we've actually talked about doing that to our YouTube page because you know you can add those cards and things for additional uh pop. What is a suggestion? So something like that. Uh, sorry. Are there any other suggestions like that um that come to mind that would help startups or businesses kind of promote themselves unintrusively but still get the message out as to who they are, what they are, and uh hopefully attract more people or at least get the conversation going. >> Uh, yes. So, you know, in in our course, what we teach a lot of our our um students um is all about how to network. Um and one of the things that we've taken away um is how you present yourself when you're initially speaking to people and how you're connecting with them. And and what we teach is all about the value upfront. So the way we instruct our um students is a lot of times people get tired of people approaching them about selling something to them. So our focus is is all about creating a network. So when we um you know meet clients we really don't talk about what we um offer. we kind of talk about how we can help the client or how we can help the the individual that we're talking to and we share with them uh strategic partners that we're looking for and we want them to share with us strategic partners that they're looking for. So, you know, we are not really then selling stuff to the actual person we're speaking to. We're just kind of leveraging our network to help them out and then they're helping us out as well. I wanted to I guess tag on to that before we move off of it is the um the the experience you had with the QR code on the Zoom. Um I found that those and particularly any of the the networking groups much like you sort of mentioned before there's a lot of um all these gurus that basically take the same thing they repackage it and you know they they'll change a couple names but it's roughly the same. It's sort of like there's, you know, families of networking groups. But one of the things that I found about those at at any level of it is that when you're talking to these other people, when they are in a a networking mode, there's it's amazing how many little things you can read off of these other people. Whether it's, you know, Zoom meetings are great. I've seen all kinds of interesting stuff that are Zoom backgrounds that are just, you know, you'll notice you're like, "Oh, wow. That's a really cool way to to self-promote." or people that have certain there's a lot of different business card approaches I've seen. I know people don't use business cards much anymore, but just that you have one these days can be a in itself can be something that's an icebreaker of sorts. Uh so there's a lot of stuff that comes out of that I'll call it that community of of networking and just getting around other like-minded people. Now, I'm going to switch a little bit because I I want to dig a little bit more into um the entrepreneur entrepreneurial mindset a little bit because I think these are some things that resonate a lot with with entrepreneurs and some of the stuff they struggle with and one of the things you mentioned a couple times is uh we've talked about systems and virtual assistants. How do you especially because I think it's it's a weird little like watershed moment when somebody realizes that a a VA is actually useful to them. I think there's almost a mental block a lot of times and this may be just because of what I had but I think there's sort of a mental block and you get to a certain point where you're like oh wow this is an investment this is a leverage it isn't you know another cost center or something like that. What are some of the things that you do to sort of help adjust that mindset and particularly on how to as an entrepreneur to interact with the VA if you if you haven't done it before particularly if you haven't managed or led before. >> So I would say that um so we've hired and let go of multiple VAS. Um so it drove me to create a system to be able to identify the right VA and then how to engage with that VA. So um I think uh having a onboarding process for any VA uh is very helpful where you're laying out your mission, your goals to get that VA to be part of your team. Um so we've created a onboarding uh program uh where we have a series of different slides and courses that we put the VA through and then also we have a system um where you can use Monday or a sauna where we list all of our tasks in the actual system for our VA because when we first started hiring a VA almost felt like an additional job because we didn't had a proper structure to be able to communicate with that VA. So then that was another task um that I dreaded doing. But once I was able to come up with a great system. Um so what we kind of do now um is we have a screen record. Um so any task that I give to the VA, I'll list the task in there, but then I'll also create a screen recording of exactly what I'm looking for and post that in the actual task. So, you know, that that makes sure that the VA usually is not confused on what I'm asking for. And we've seen that um be very helpful. And then another thing is we also make sure that the VAS take ownership um in what they're doing and make them part of the team. Um so we I I felt that that has been very helpful um on the way that we leverage our VAS. >> And that is where we're going to pause. But don't worry, we are not done with Antoine. We are coming back uh next episode. We're going to continue with part two. And uh yes, this time it's not me. I'm not going to say who it is, but somebody will ask the AI question and uh we'll see how that one goes. We'll see what the answer is because we've talked about a lot of things that touched on it, but didn't exactly get directly to it. Uh thank you so much for your time and hang out with us. Uh appreciate that you're you're spending your time here. I hope that you've gotten as much out of this as we have. This was really a great conversation, particularly the those of us that are, you know, when you're doing side hustles, when you're running businesses, when you're in that entrepreneurial mindset, uh there's a lot of these things that I think just need to be said. Even though even if you know it, even if you've heard it, it helps to be reminded about it. That being said, I'm going to remind you to get out there and have yourself a great day, a great week, and we will talk to you next time.
Transcript Segments
Ow, that hurts. All right, there we go.
As I was saying, Michael will join us uh
momentarily here. I think he's joining.
Yep, he's coming in. Um way we do the
podcast is that we uh this is both audio
and video. Uh we'll start here
momentarily. basically we'll have like a
you know hitting the record button on
the video side of it and then we will uh
that'll be out in um YouTube and then
separately we'll have the audio that
will go out on your normal you know
podcast channels and things of that
nature. Uh we'll do about an hourongish
conversation. Uh we'll start with an
introduction. I'll introduce myself,
Michael introduce himself, I'll toss it
to you to introduce yourself and really
we'll just get going from there. Um,
we've got a few good questions, but I
have found very often that, um, really
just in that that introduction, we have
a lot of, you know, a couple jumping off
points and we just start going from
there. We'll just sort of go back and
forth.
>> Um, we try to keep it conversational. We
try not to pepper you too much, but more
than happy for you to share because
people hear from us all the time.
>> Okay.
>> Uh, any questions?
>> Uh, not right now. Okay. All right. Uh,
Michael, audio all good.
>> Uh,
Antoine, would you mind speaking again?
>> Uh, hello.
>> Okay, you're a little low. Okay, that
worked. I can make that work.
>> Okay, we're all good.
>> Yep.
>> All right, then. We're just going to
dive right into it with a little th
uno. Well, hello and welcome back. We
are continuing our season when we are
What the heck are we doing? We're gonna
have to restart this one. What is this
season?
>> Forward motion.
>> Forward momentum. It's been too long.
Wow. Keep that on the video for
everybody gets that bonus. I have not
blown that in a while. Wow. I was just
ready. I was so excited to talk to
Antoine, I forgot what we were doing.
>> That's almost as bad as when you forget
to hit record.
>> Back it up. No forward motion on that
one. One more time.
Uno. Well, hello and welcome back. We
are continuing our season. We are
building on our foundation. We're taking
step forwards. We are getting those
blockers out of our way as we start into
what is now a new year and actually
fairly solidly into it. We are the
building better developers podcast. We
are developer. I am Rob Broadhead, one
of the founders of developer, building
better developers. also the founder of
RB Consulting where we help you do a
technology reality check. We help you
sit down and figure out what it is you
got and then what should you do moving
forward. Good thing and bad thing. Good
thing is I'm really excited about our
guest today. A lot of cool stuff. Uh I
think this is going to be a great
conversation. It's a little different, a
little more in the the entrepreneurial
side than we've been in a little bit,
but I think it's going to be great.
Looking forward to it. bad thing is I
was so excited that this is our second
take for the introduction to this uh
this time around which is very rare.
Usually I just hit forget to hit record
but this time totally flubbed it but now
setting all that up. I'm not putting too
much stress on Michael to not do the
same. Go ahead and introduce yourself.
Hey everyone, my name is Michael Malash.
I'm one of the co-founders of Building
Better Developers, also known as
Developer. I'm also the founder of
Envision QA, where we build and test
custom software that eliminates the
bottlenecks so your business runs
smoother and grows faster. Good thing,
bad thing. Uh, good thing,
the weather may be cold, but we actually
have sunshine. So, it's a beautiful day
outside, but it's a balming 15°. At
least we don't have the snow like we did
last time. Uh, bad thing, it's 15°
outside. It's We're still dealing with
winter in Tennessee.
Well, now I already said, you know, gave
a little bit of a pump up here for our
guest, but I'm going to let you go ahead
and introduce yourself. Antoine,
>> how you doing? My name is Antoine Pson.
I'm an Army veteran of 22 years. Uh, I
started a business called Skillful
Brands and our focus is to help
entrepreneurs eliminate the complexities
of starting and running a business.
>> Well, that's like perfect one. Uh, I
just got to start with it is amazing to
me and this may be a bias or something
like that. Everybody I talk to that is
ex-military and you say what do you do
or what have you been doing? It is just
like it is like a perfect answer is just
like bam bam bam. They just rattle it
right off. So if you hadn't if you
hadn't said that you're ex-military I
would have wondered I would maybe even
have asked it's like do you have that in
your background? There's just a level of
of presentation that that has makes you
want to like, you know, snap a salute or
something like that. Sit up a little
straighter.
But I'm I'm digressing. I want to talk
right into let like dive right into it.
What is Let's go deeper into that. What
are the complexities of of
entrepreneurship and and starting a
business that you guys really focus on?
>> Uh yeah. So um one of the things so my
journey uh started a little bit before
you know entrepreneurship. So as as I
spoke you know uh I spent 22 years in
United States Army uh leading different
type of organizations and when I
transitioned out of the uniform I
brought a lot of the principles that I
learned there uh to shape and build the
businesses that I'm currently doing at
Skillful Brands. U my focus is to help
you know entrepreneurs eliminate these
complexities and what does that look
like? So I understand what it feels like
to be stuck in your business. I I
understand the different things that you
try um just to see if it will work. So I
I will say the shift in my entrepreneur
journey um started when I realized that
you know being business being busy in
your business does not build a business.
Um you know the hustle that you have um
you know I was hustling in my first
business that I started um but I just I
really just didn't have any structure.
So, you know, I want to show
entrepreneurs that, hey, you might need
a mentor. You might need a mentor and
you can't do everything yourself. You
need help. You need to get guidance um
early on in your business.
>> Now, wow, there's a I wasn't expecting
that one. That actually took us now in
another different direction. So, what
are you seeing? What is it? what should
somebody look for um in in a mentor or
getting that kind of guidance or getting
somebody else to to help lead them a
little bit,
>> you know? So, I would say what I did um
I started out, you know, being a real
estate investor um and there was so many
different uh gurus out there um that,
you know, had different systems and
techniques that they were using. What I
did is I went to a local real estate
investor meeting and I found the
smartest person in the room and I
started hanging around that person,
seeing how they operated with clients
and how they did that b their business.
Um, and I tell everyone when you first
start a business, having someone I will
say hold your hand through the first
transactions or first sales is very
valuable because you it gives you the
confidence to know that what you're
doing is correct. Um, and I think that
played um, dividends for you know me and
gaining my confidence in the business
world.
Now, do you see that also as a way to
help you as a as an entrepreneur to sort
of know what you don't know by allowing
somebody else that you can look up to
like that to to sort of see what you
want to be when you grow up? I guess for
lack of better term,
>> right? I would say, you know, the person
that I connected with, I felt that they
had the blueprint, you know, I did not
know what I did not know. So I think
when I connected with that person um I
saw them do a few transactions and I was
like okay this is how you you know
structure this deal or this is the per
paperwork that you need. So it just gave
me the confidence to you know be a real
estate investor and then that transition
to other uh you know business endeavors
as well.
So, with the uh it's kind of interesting
because what you're discussing is
similar to what we've talked about in
the past and what I've gone through
because I relaunched my business 2 years
ago and I went through um mentor uhish
meetings. I went through like a
co-starters program to kind of relaunch
cuz I've been doing this for 25 years.
One of the things you mentioned, you
know, mentors and finding that person.
Were you looking more for like a
business mentor to help you like how
were they successful or were you trying
to find someone in your niche to help
you perfect what you were trying to sell
or promote as far as your business?
>> Yeah, that's so funny that you um that
you say that. So, I spoke to another
client last week and they were asking me
uh they were a new business and they
were asking me, "Hey, do I need a a
mentor in my niche or do I just need a
business coach?" And my advice to that
person is when you're first starting out
your business, you're getting the mic
the right mindset and structure in
place. It does not have to be someone in
your in your niche because uh at the
foundation of any business uh is the
same. So some sometimes uh you know
people put the wrong step in the wrong
phase of their business. So I truly
believe that uh a business coach is a
business coach at the foundation level
and have to have a f strong foundation.
All businesses need the same the proper
mindset the proper structure and system.
Then once you reach another phase of
your business then you may want to
leverage someone else that is in your
industry.
>> Nice. I I like that distinction because
so many times throughout my career, I've
run into situations where
I found like the right person, but at
the wrong time. It's like, yes, this is
great, but it's not really helping me
with the problem I have. It's helping me
with that next problem or that next
scenario. It it is very
interesting to hear someone else put it
down that way that yes, you need the
business foundation first and the niche
later. I I really understand that and
love that.
>> Um
>> and I will say that um you know that's
why I preach framework uh heavily
because there are gurus out there but a
lot of times they'll have you working on
phase two or three of your business in
phase one. So, you know, they might have
you working on marketing, building your
website, things that are pretty because,
you know, it's tailored to their
business, but really you need to be
trying to get the mindset and just the
structure down of your business first.
Um, and that that may take a six months
to a year. Um, and I consider that the
proof of principle for your business.
Get the foundation done first and then
you can transition into phase two.
That that's great. It's a very solid
advice. Um
so based on your experience and
the different um scenarios we just laid
out here, you know, working on the
business or working on the niche, what
are some of the things that you see new
entrepreneurs or even experienced
entrepreneurs struggle with or make the
mistake with their business starting out
or even, you know, they could be
established, but they're still doing it
wrong. they're not fully um reaching
their full potential of their business.
>> Uh so, you know, just like uh when I
started my business, just like other
entrepreneurs, I had a full-time job. Um
I was I was also, you know, a husband
and a father and I was trying to run a
part-time business. Um but before you
know it, I realized that uh the
involvement of running that full-time
business became a full-time requirement.
Um, so you know, I use that lesson as I
move forward. Um, and I realized that
most a lot of other businesses are are
facing the same thing. Um, you know,
they're trying to build a business. Um,
and they just don't have the right
structure in place. Um, so I will say
that, you know, one, uh, the passion
that they have for that business,
sometimes it takes a little more than
passion because that passion can't, uh,
run your calendar. Um, it can't close
sales. um it can't you know promote your
business. So you act you have to
actually get a good system in place. You
have to find a great mentor and then
realize that you can't do it all on your
own. You need a you need to hire a VA or
someone that can help you actually
manage your business.
Now, what do you see as um this is a
little bit of a loaded question because
this is something I actually preach and
and consult on on a regular basis, but
um what do you see as the the point
where you need to get as an entrepreneur
where you need to start putting those
systems in place or and I guess sort of
in the same lines um I want to pair this
a little bit to give you a little more
runway with this is uh put systems in
place but also bring in uh assistants or
VAS or or something that fits that role.
>> Yeah. So, um the system that I currently
have um I usually talk about because all
businesses are different and what they
want to accomplish. So, you know, I
usually set a monetary value with a lot
of the clients that um I train. So, you
know, proof of principle, I usually tell
them up to 10K a month. If you want to
make up to 10K a month, you really can
do that on your own. Over 10K a month,
you may transition into something
different. So, it may not be because
mindset and systems are probably the
toughest thing that I see business
owners need to wrap their head around.
Once they get the mindset and the
structure right, if they're doing it
correctly, following our system, you
know, they'll be about at 10K a month.
Once you get over that, you want to
transition to maybe doing some type of
marketing and maybe hire a VA to assist
you. Um, and I I consider that as the uh
leverage um phase of the business. Um,
where you really would need to maybe
hire a VA, but up to 10K a month based
on your business, you more than likely
could do that on your own without
burnout, you know, without confusion and
things like that.
>> I love that is where you get to that
leverage point. I love using that how
you use that uh phrase for that because
I think that's great. I've I've often
heard of it referred to as like going
into growth mode or something like that.
But I love the leverage because that
that I think ties it back down to like
you need somebody to help with that
leverage. You need something to you know
push on that lever.
>> Now how do you see
you mentioned that it's uh entrepreneurs
have a hard time getting their head
around this you know this step. what are
some of like the blockers or the mental
uh you know challenges that they have in
doing so? Uh so one they listen to
multiple different people um because
there's multiple different systems out
there and you know and what I what I
share with a lot of people is uh a lot
of the systems are really the same but
gurus put their own spin on the same
information and maybe word it
differently or give it a different name.
So you know uh that's that you know the
first thing just understanding that like
getting started is the main point. Uh a
lot of people are nervous they don't get
started but getting started talking to
other investors just being on mentor u
podcast being in uh mastermind groups
and other groups there's a lot of free
tools out there um that they could use
just to get confidence in their in their
ability to run their business. And I
think that's the one of the biggest
things just having the confidence to be
able to move forward.
>> Wow. That is perfect for our season
focus of you know getting unstuck and
moving forward is just some you just got
to take that step. Um I I highly agree
then and sometimes it feels like just
any step just making that decision to
make a step is better than you know no
step at all is you getting that forward
momentum. So, is that something is it do
you find that that's challenging or is
it usually something that that goes over
pretty quickly and and entrepreneurs are
like, "Yeah, that makes sense. I'm just
going to go ahead and and dive in." Or
is there is it is it in itself a big
challenge? I
>> I think uh in in the in the model of
business, the mindset is probably the
toughest thing that uh entrepreneurs
need to get uh over um to actually make
their their business grow. Once they can
get the proper mindset, uh I think
everything else is very simple. The
mindset that they can't do it all by
theirel. They need to hire get the
proper help. Uh once they realize that,
uh I think they're they can, you know,
have a successful business. But a lot of
businesses fail because one, they don't
get started or they just can't get the
mindset of that, hey, I'm actually
running a business versus, you know, a
side hustle.
Oh, that's a that's a great uh
transition I think and one that I think
a lot of people in our audience can can
somewhat relate to or that challenge is
and I'd love you to go a little deeper
in that is the mindset of we talk about
the the side hustle mindset versus the
like you know launching a business or
entrepreneurial mindset.
>> Uh yes. So I I know a lot of people use
these terms u interchangeable. So a b a
business versus a company. So, um, what
I try to, um, tell individuals like when
you're running a business, you're
definitely involved in the day-to-day
operations, but I ask them, is your goal
to transition that into a company for,
you know, legacy where you can step away
and organization, continue to run? Um,
so, you know, if you you're just trying
to do it for a side hustle and just have
a business, I understand that because
you have a passion. But if you want to
step away and leave that for
generational wealth, you your goal
should be able to establish a company
where you can step away and your
organization can continue to run.
>> So looking at your journey, so you
talked about when you started out, you
were working part-time on your business
and you were working full-time. Um
there's a lot of people I know that have
gone through that situation are still in
that situation and they're running, you
know, headlong into both situations.
When did you
find it time to pull the the plug, quit
the day job and solely focus on the
business and grow it into that company?
>> So I I will say that when I realized
that I I was stuck and I didn't know
where else to go. So you know, for me, I
had an obligation to the military. So,
um, I actually got a partner for, uh,
one of the businesses that I was running
that was very informative and we kind of
like worked together to while I was
still still in the military. When I
transitioned out of the military, I just
knew that I didn't want to go work for
another company and I had a passion for
helping other people. So, you know, that
for me, uh, I knew at that point I
needed to actually get a coach in the
industry that I that I wanted to work
in. So I went and hired a actual
business coach to make sure that what I
was transitioning from the military the
principles you know and things like that
would transitioning in leadership values
would transition into being a business
coach. Um so I will say that you know
when your your business is stuck and not
progressing um it's probably time for to
get a business coach.
>> Nice. Uh so you've talked a lot about
these mastermind meetings and finding
these coaches.
What is your suggestion to people to
help find them? You know, because a lot
of people are virtual. It there's, you
know, lots of noise on the internet.
Everyone's shouting, you know, I'm a
great coach, you know, and even locally,
you know, there's certain um areas I
found beneficial. Like I've mentioned
before, I found a co-starters program
here locally. I was able to plug into
local businesses. But what's your
recommendation for, you know, startups
or even those established? how to help
them find coaches and find people that
they need to talk to to help grow their
business.
>> Yes. So, there's there is a lot of
programs out there that have paid that
are paid programs. And I'm I'm not
advocating for a paid versus a free
program, but you just have to get out
there, you know, get online, start
searching. I actually, you know, within
the last two weeks from just networking
with other people have found two very um
great programs that are free. um you
just show up and you share information
and all programs are not the same but I
feel like you could learn something from
every program. One of the takeaways from
my last uh meeting that I just I've only
attended it one time because you know
another uh person told me about it is
for example when you're doing Zoom
meetings and things like I never thought
about this but um you know when you're
doing a a meeting or you're in a
mastermind everyone says say so tell me
about a little bit about you and then
post your information in the chat. One
of the things that one of the guys did
that I took away, he he created a QR
code. He put it on his Zoom background.
So, as as he was talking, he was like,
"Hey, if you want to find out about me a
little bit more, you can scan this QR
code here and all of my information uh
comes up." And I know that might be
small, but that was something that I
took away from, you know, uh a meeting
that was free um and everyone shared
valuable information. So you can always
get uh valuable information from free uh
you know uh groups. You don't have to
pay you know but they do have BNI
um and a couple of other um programs
that are out there.
>> One other thing. Go ahead.
>> Uh just one other thing. So I love that.
So
I I love the tip about the Zoom that
that QR code. That's a great idea and
we've actually talked about doing that
to our YouTube page because you know you
can add those cards and things for
additional uh pop.
What is a suggestion? So something like
that. Uh,
sorry. Are there any other suggestions
like that um that come to mind that
would help startups or businesses kind
of promote themselves unintrusively but
still get the message out as to who they
are, what they are, and uh hopefully
attract more people or at least get the
conversation going.
>> Uh, yes. So, you know, in in our course,
what we teach a lot of our our um
students um is all about how to network.
Um and one of the things that we've
taken away um is how you present
yourself when you're initially speaking
to people and how you're connecting with
them. And and what we teach is all about
the value upfront. So the way we
instruct our um students is a lot of
times people get tired of people
approaching them about selling something
to them. So our focus is is all about
creating a network. So when we um you
know meet clients we really don't talk
about what we um offer. we kind of talk
about how we can help the client or how
we can help the the individual that
we're talking to and we share with them
uh strategic partners that we're looking
for and we want them to share with us
strategic partners that they're looking
for. So, you know, we are not really
then selling stuff to the actual person
we're speaking to. We're just kind of
leveraging our network to help them out
and then they're helping us out as well.
I wanted to I guess tag on to that
before we move off of it is the um the
the experience you had with the QR code
on the Zoom. Um I found that those and
particularly any of the the networking
groups much like you sort of mentioned
before there's a lot of um all these
gurus that basically take the same thing
they repackage it and you know they
they'll change a couple names but it's
roughly the same. It's sort of like
there's, you know, families of
networking groups. But one of the things
that I found about those at at any level
of it is that when you're talking to
these other people, when they are in a a
networking mode, there's it's amazing
how many little things you can read off
of these other people. Whether it's, you
know, Zoom meetings are great. I've seen
all kinds of interesting stuff that are
Zoom backgrounds that are just, you
know, you'll notice you're like, "Oh,
wow. That's a really cool way to to
self-promote." or people that have
certain there's a lot of different
business card approaches I've seen. I
know people don't use business cards
much anymore, but just that you have one
these days can be a in itself can be
something that's an icebreaker of sorts.
Uh so there's a lot of stuff that comes
out of that I'll call it that community
of of networking and just getting around
other like-minded people.
Now, I'm going to switch a little bit
because I I want to dig a little bit
more into um the entrepreneur
entrepreneurial mindset a little bit
because I think these are some things
that resonate a lot with with
entrepreneurs and some of the stuff they
struggle with and one of the things you
mentioned a couple times is uh we've
talked about systems and virtual
assistants. How do you especially
because I think it's it's a weird little
like watershed moment when somebody
realizes that a a VA is actually useful
to them. I think there's almost a mental
block a lot of times and this may be
just because of what I had but I think
there's sort of a mental block and you
get to a certain point where you're like
oh wow this is an investment this is a
leverage it isn't you know another cost
center or something like that. What are
some of the things that you do to sort
of help adjust that mindset and
particularly on how to as an
entrepreneur to interact with the VA if
you if you haven't done it before
particularly if you haven't managed or
led before.
>> So I would say that um so we've hired
and let go of multiple VAS. Um so it
drove me to create a system to be able
to identify the right VA and then how to
engage with that VA. So um I think uh
having a onboarding process for any VA
uh is very helpful where you're laying
out your mission, your goals to get that
VA to be part of your team. Um so we've
created a onboarding uh program uh where
we have a series of different slides and
courses that we put the VA through and
then also we have a system um where you
can use Monday or a sauna where we list
all of our tasks in the actual system
for our VA because when we first started
hiring a VA almost felt like an
additional job because we didn't had a
proper structure to be able to
communicate with that VA. So then that
was another task um that I dreaded
doing. But once I was able to come up
with a great system. Um so what we kind
of do now um is we have a screen record.
Um so any task that I give to the VA,
I'll list the task in there, but then
I'll also create a screen recording of
exactly what I'm looking for and post
that in the actual task. So, you know,
that that makes sure that the VA usually
is not confused on what I'm asking for.
And we've seen that um be very helpful.
And then another thing is we also make
sure that the VAS take ownership um in
what they're doing and make them part of
the team. Um so we I I felt that that
has been very helpful um on the way that
we leverage our VAS.
>> And that is where we're going to pause.
But don't worry, we are not done with
Antoine. We are coming back uh next
episode. We're going to continue with
part two. And uh yes, this time it's not
me. I'm not going to say who it is, but
somebody will ask the AI question and uh
we'll see how that one goes. We'll see
what the answer is because we've talked
about a lot of things that touched on
it, but didn't exactly get directly to
it. Uh thank you so much for your time
and hang out with us. Uh appreciate that
you're you're spending your time here. I
hope that you've gotten as much out of
this as we have. This was really a great
conversation, particularly the those of
us that are, you know, when you're doing
side hustles, when you're running
businesses, when you're in that
entrepreneurial mindset, uh there's a
lot of these things that I think just
need to be said. Even though even if you
know it, even if you've heard it, it
helps to be reminded about it. That
being said, I'm going to remind you to
get out there and have yourself a great
day, a great week, and we will talk to
you next time.