📺 Develpreneur YouTube Episode

Video + transcript

Product Placement Strategy : How to Position Your Product or Service for Success

2025-04-01 •Youtube

Detailed Notes

In the Building Better Developers podcast, in the season Building Better Businesses, hosts Rob Broadhead and Michael Meloche dive deep into one of the most important yet often overlooked aspects of building a successful business—product placement strategy. This episode explores how intentional product and service placement can shape your brand, attract the right customers, and set you up for long-term success.

Read More: https://develpreneur.com/product-placement-strategy-how-to-position-your-product-or-service-for-success/

*Building Your Product Placement Strategy*

To wrap up, Rob offers a practical challenge to the audience:

Identify and document your product or service placement strategy.

Ask yourself:

* What is my product or service? * Who is my ideal customer? * Am I positioned as premium, affordable, boutique, or mass-market? * How will my placement strategy influence my pricing and customer experience?

Understanding your placement will shape everything from your sales approach to scaling your business.

*Additional Resources*

* The Product Launch – Shipping Your Software Product (https://develpreneur.com/the-product-launch-shipping-your-software-product/) * Creating a Social Media Strategy (https://develpreneur.com/creating-a-social-media-strategy/) * How to Succeed with Digital Marketing for Small Businesses (https://develpreneur.com/how-to-succeed-with-digital-marketing-for-small-businesses/) * Introduction To Market Research – Interview with Anne Laffin (https://develpreneur.com/introduction-to-market-research-interview-with-anne-laffin/)

*Follow-us on:*

* https://develpreneur.com/ * https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZOuFN_LhczvGyT2KSItH_g/featured * https://facebook.com/Develpreneur * https://twitter.com/develpreneur * http://linkedin.com/develpreneur

Transcript Text
[Music]
the
cloud and we we are live
so just watching I had a bird just like
land right over here it's like two feet
away
um all right what are we talking about
this time do we I don't think we have
any leftovers do we so no I I tried to
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came out uh spell check or auto correct
really made it funny
uh where was it which one was that I
think I remember that something that was
very yeah I I tried to put you pursuing
the gold standards in your uh industry
or product but it came out
as that actually like yes are you
pursuing the gold standard in your
insults or product I'm like well of
course I'm pursuing the gold standard in
my insults my product I don't know but
the I'm like the Platinum standard on my
insults come
on are you P are you pursuing that gold
stand in your industry or product where
are you thinking to go with that
one uh so it's one of those where are
you like if you're building a product or
software are you building best in class
or are you basically just
another option in a sea of products does
that make sense sort of like product
positioning yeah okay I like that
um I think that's actually not a bad
start so what we're going to do is we're
just going to dive right into this
sucker and we will see what happens with
product positioning and we'll figure out
the next episode after this episode do
me a favor um because this is a weird
topic if we go slightly off topic uh
just kind of hand it off with like just
remember where or you know what are your
thoughts on X Y or Z
just cuz uh I think last one or one or
two back I kind of went a totally
different direction because you kind of
deviated from the topic slightly and I
took that and went a totally different
direction well as long as it turned out
entertaining then we're good I don't
think we have to
worry yeah we just have to cover that in
the uh in the editorial stuff is to make
sure we've got the right you know that
we aren't you know we don't say it's one
topic and then do another topic U
although sometimes I have done that it's
like start off and say hey we're gonna
talk and we never talk about I'm gonna
give a little three a two a one hey how
you doing we are back or this is you
know welcome home or welcome here if
this is the first time you've been here
we are develop and or we are the
building better developers podcast the
season is actually about building better
businesses and this episode we're going
to talk about product placement now
before we do that I'm going to introduce
myself myself being Rob Broadhead one of
the founders of develop andur also a
founder of RB Consulting where we
basically we help you figure out the
best way to Wrangle all of that
technology sprawl whether you're a
little business and you're trying to
figure out whether it's you what
accounting software you're using or
whether you're a larger organization
that's trying to figure out who your IT
staff needs to be what kind of skills do
you need to have what kind of you know
ERM or CRM or Erp or ABC all of those
things that you may not even know what
they are but you hear that you've got to
get them we help you figure out what is
the best solution for you not only today
but six months and six years down the
road and our you know if you call it our
secret sauce it's not very secret
basically what we do is we sit down and
talk to you understand your business
look at what you have where you at and
through whether it's integration
implementation Innovation simplification
automation any shun you can think of
basically we will work with that and go
out there help you find the best
solution to your problem or problem so
that your business can be focused on
business and not technology good thing
bad thing so good thing um I mentioned
in a previous episode that we had had a
house that was we got a offers on our
house right away had a nice little like
but it was like you got to be out in two
weeks well the good thing is have made
it past that out of the house got it
closed the bad thing is
is it was bad let's just say this is
like a portion of my life I just want to
like black out and forget because it was
a rough time it started coming back late
on a Monday night very like I think we
got home at like 11:30 or midnight and
then at 8:00 a.m. the next day we had
movers we had lost that whole three or
four days on a cruise which was not a
bad cruise but boy it it hit us right in
the chops when we came back so if you
have a choice I recommend not doing that
but you have no choice even though I do
recommend you listen to Michael as he
introduces
himself thanks Rob hey everyone my name
is Michael Mage welcome to building
better developers
developer uh I'm one of the co-founders
like Rob I'm also the founder of
Envision QA where we are a software
company that helps businesses look at
their software stack and help them
determine if they are working with the
correct technology for their business or
if they're working for their technology
meaning that they are having to
implement processes to make this cookie
cutter software work for them our ideal
solution is to come in help you do a
software assessment of your processes
and help you kind of build a road map or
build software put the pieces in place
place that you really need to be very
successful in your business help it grow
and if you are building software we also
can bring a software team in and help
you go from a small team or a struggling
development house to a full-fledged
development team and get your products
out quicker and happier good thing bad
thing uh good thing it is finally
warming up I'm finally not freezing
anymore downside I can't go outside
without wearing a mask right now there's
so much pollen in the air it is just
driving my sinus is
crazy so let's talk about product
placement and this is this is really
important I think for us when we're
doing the side hustle because with a in
a general business I think it's
hopefully it's more likely that we have
spent some time we've done some market
research we've thought about our product
we we've figured out what do we want to
do we've got a we'll say a culture or
something like that within our company
that is s about this is what we're going
to do this is what we're going to
produce some notable kinds of things
would be like and apple apple has always
been you know the the gold standard
whatever they don't care about price I
mean it it's going to be pricey but the
whole point is it's G to be pricey but
it's going to be a higher end product
versus if you go like think about uh
like
McDonald's they are very much like we
want to get you affordable food quickly
things like that so there's a you know
there's a wide range and obviously those
are two companies that are very
successful and there are examples
throughout you know from the the very uh
like the people that are the
lowcost Kings and the people that are
the you have to be a king to afford our
product kind of products like where will
you go with these now Within These are
also uh there's things particularly with
software and and digital
stuff there is a level of uh where in
physical in the physical world things
wear out things just you know will
degrade over time naturally it doesn't
matter what your product is however in
the digital world it's a little
different it doesn't necess you could
run your same application on the same
operating system same machine for quite
a while and never see any degradation
now the machine itself may change but
especially if you have a virtual machine
which is very easy to have these days
you don't really have to worry about it
so instead it's really more some of
things like is this going to be
maintainable is as for yourself maybe
depending on how you position the
product is this something that you want
to be able to do multiple uh versions
and enhancements and upgrades is it
really more of a
oneandone uh is it something that you
want to position as a an integr an
integral part of something else for
example like I said I mentioned earlier
a CRM maybe what you have is a let's say
you have a website that's really or you
have a product that is about mail
campaigns email campaigns and that's it
you don't really care about the customer
management side anymore than you
absolutely have to and so what you end
up doing is you have something sort of
like a plugin maybe that would run
beside pick your favorite CRM and so
maybe you do something like that so do
you want to be Standalone do you want to
be part of something else do you want to
be that high-end product do you want to
be a lower-end product and there is a
long list of pros and cons wherever you
pick these things if you want to be
higher in then you need to be higher end
you need to make sure that you have high
quality you need to have the right
processes all those things in place to
make sure that when somebody gets it
they've paid that extra you know that
high dollar amount for it but they are
going to expect certain things and you
better deliver on it if you do great if
you don't you're G to have problems
because we're say I could buy the cheap
stuff and it would save me money and I'm
not going to get anything worse than you
do so you can you have challenges up
there depending on what you're building
and what your goal is now software
sometimes I will say that just getting a
product just solving a problem is in
itself almost the gold standard because
nobody else can do it maybe or nobody
else does it uh in a way that you do it
okay you can cut yourself some slack but
then you have on the other end is the I
want to be able to provide this at a low
cost to whoever wants it and then in
those cases you know it ends up being
like yes you're going to be able to
maybe have more people afford your
product more customers
but there with that comes the
expectation in the types of customers
that you're going to deal with we've
mentioned many times the 4our work week
and this is something that Tim Ferris
has mentioned before along with many
others that
are very all these it's about for like a
better term I'm trying to find out like
the politically correct way to do it but
just like some people are annoying more
than others and some people are really
you know are lower class or lower brow
however you want to do it and if usually
if you're buying the cheapest product
you're probably not you know you you're
more likely to be like P pinching
pennies and things like that you're
going to be more costc conscious so
you're going to be arguing that hey
instead of $10 can you get it to me for
$9 and the support of it there's there's
a wide range just a broad range of
issues that come with that now I don't
want to say that that's not necessarily
the right way to go it depends on what
your bent is it depends on what your
product is a lot of it does depend on
things like Automation and mass
production and things like that because
if you can automate your uh your
customer service so that it's maybe just
you but there's an automated piece that
could handle hundreds of thousands of
complaints and customer calls and a
given hour then go for it like roll that
dice throw that stuff out there if it's
affordable go for it if that's not what
you want to do if you want to have like
that very Personal Touch for everybody
then maybe think about maybe I don't
want to have as many customers as much
as I want to have like more of my ideal
customer less customers overall but the
ones that I have are going to be you
know more near to dear to my heart as we
would say and therefore much more a
better fit for what you're providing now
I know I've I've gone pretty broad on
this uh but I want to just sort of think
like what are your thoughts in product
placement and maybe even some of your
experiences with it Michael yeah so it's
interesting you really focused kind of
on the product itself but sometimes as a
business owner or as a uh you know we
are service providers we're not
necessarily product providers so we
don't have a physical product or
software we're actually selling our
services so that still Falls within the
conversation of product placement though
because your product in it of itself is
your services you know how are you
selling yourself or what it is that you
offer to your customers now before I
dive into that though I do want to touch
on one thing with the product placement
though so if you are building a product
as mentioned you know price point is
critical but the other problem you run
into potentially is competition is your
product something that is too generic or
too General that you are one of hundreds
so the problem you're going to have is
how are you going to stand out how is
your product going to differentiate from
those other uh competitors and price
points one of the big things Rob
mentioned using automation uh things to
improve you know time to Market you know
lower your cost there's still some
issues with that because if you are
trying to sell a product in a vast
industry or with vast competition you
have to be very careful to position
yourself in a way that people don't
forget about you or you're going to run
into what Rob was mentioning where
you're going to have those Penny
Pinchers or not even really that but one
customer saying well why is your product
50 bucks but this person over here is
$10 so you've got to be very careful
where you place your product now if you
are more of a niche more of a um Etsy
kind of person Etsy is a great place but
Etsy still has its competition the other
thing you could look at is maybe smaller
markets like your local uh towns flea
markets uh other areas like that but in
the digital world most of your customers
are going to be online so you're going
to have to figure out how to place
yourself in a position where you stand
out so either it is better quality
product use higher quality materials
which does justify the cost but you need
to make sure that the cost is still
something that you can pass on to your
customer that your customer can afford
your product so just some caveats there
to be careful of if you're doing a
product based um company and you're
trying to position it all right I want
to flip over to the service side now
because Services is a little more of
what me and Rob kind of do uh from a
Consulting from a developer perspective
we're out there providing software
services to companies we build software
we provide services we help them analyze
do assessments things of that nature the
problem is if your customer is non
technical or your customer is very
technical you're going to run into a
couple situations one how are you going
to justify your cost to sell your
product to someone that knows nothing
about what you do what what is the value
of what you're providing so the first
thing I want to talk about is value how
are you going to show your service will
provide value to their business so if
you're a software company I build
software that can improve your
production time so if you have this
clunky old 30-year old system that is
working but it takes you two hours to do
something that you can do in 5 minutes
right there you can show a Justified
here if I come in I can help you do this
which will eliminate 45 minutes 2 and 1
half hours whatever from your day
multiply that by a week and suddenly
your cost savings are going to be
justified that hey if I provide you four
weeks of work at X I'm going to save you
6 months worth of value over time so
those are just some calculations you can
do to kind of help justify the cost of
reducing service times you know your
cost coming in will reduce red their
overall return on their investment or
increase their return on investment the
other thing is trying to talk to
customers well not necessarily as a
service but when you're talking about
building them software like websites are
a very good example I don't like really
building websites for customers because
a lot of times there's too much
competition out there you can go to like
Fiverr you can go to uh freelancer
there's so many places where people can
just quickly throw up a website and AI
is making that even more difficult with
all these uh like Wix uh Ary or all
these like host Gators they all have ai
now so basically you just go fill in a
couple questionnaire boom you've got a
website how are you going to compete
with that so be careful when you're
offering services that you're also like
the product you're not offering
something that is too generic or too has
too much competition in the industry one
of the interesting ways I heard someone
explain how they essentially build and
sell websites is they offer like Rob
actually mentions in some of his uh
pitches they they offer a boutique
experience they come in they walk
through the life of a customer and then
they build the website from a customer's
experience totally different approach
it's still building a website but the
pitch is different enough that it makes
them stand out so the second thing here
is your pitch how are you presenting to
your customers and are you presenting to
the right customer base so you again
this is like the products you want to
make sure that the price you're charging
for your service for the product that
you're going to build is in the right
price range for that Target Market
because if you're too low you're going
to get the people well hey I want this
and you're going to run into situations
where it costs you too much in time not
enough in returns you actually lose
money on the deal so those are a couple
of things that I think of when I talk
think about product placement any
additional thoughts on sorry yeah and I
think you know
really there is a difference in the
service side versus the product side
definitely and on the service side it is
um I think it's a little more dangerous
a little bit because as Michael alluded
to is that there is a there's a Time
cost that can often be hidden that maybe
you want to spend as I mentioned like
you want to have a better connection a
better relationship with your customers
well that is going to require time that
requires investing in those
relationships and your customers and all
of the things that that you know involve
that and it can be something that if
it's not part of your uh your billable
hours or your contracts or things like
that then it's essentially free time
it's comp it's time that you are not
charging for and over time that can
actually become um you know
unsustainable basically because you can
only be split so many ways now you can
you know hire people and things like
that but then there's a cost and all of
those things continue so I think that's
with a service it's it is definitely
something that you want to and again
this goes back to the developer side of
this whole
thing what from a service point of view
there are you can position yourself in
uh technology stacks and things like
that you can be somebody that is a uh a
a big provider on like your upworks or
your gurus or you know those kinds of
sites or you can be somebody that is uh
very active in maybe LinkedIn or one of
the job sites that is you know like a
monster or somebody like that where
you're you're working with lot of stuff
or as Michael alluded maybe you're part
of your local you know rotary club or
something like that you're part of one
of these local organizations or meetups
and things like that where that's really
where you're your Niche is is you're
just going to go with that you know sort
of that geographically small area you
may also want to go with something
technology or or line of business small
so instead of uh I'm in healthc care
maybe you are in um devices for heart
transplants Health Care you know
something that's like very much more
Niche but then you can also maybe you
know charge a little better charge a
little more but also you don't have to
you you don't have to have a pitch to
large numbers of people you can actually
have a more much more personal pitch to
to maybe potentially every single
customer and I think that is a value we
provide as when we're sending out we're
going out there to provide a
service part of that is how we build
that relationship how we maintain that
relationship and where that fits in and
so you know some of it you want to think
about and this gets into the challenge
is your challenge is what is your
primary product and where if you had to
get give let's say five bullet points
that are placement points on your
product what would they be would it be
something around um pricing for example
like we you know we give you the best
deal or
we you know we are the the Porsche of
this product or the service is it have
to do with the the customer experience
you know some places that's the whole
thing is like is it all about the
customer walking away and your product
may or may not be great but their
experience with you in your product or
your service is great uh does it have to
do with um like a niche or something
like that like are you as part of it is
that you place your product in a area
where others don't maybe you're a
combination of things that others aren't
you know maybe you're the first um you
create shoes that have you know for
example uh you shoes could have bells on
them but maybe you have shoes that have
fidget Spinners on them if somebody
wants to sit there and fidget spin their
shoes I don't know there's you know you
look look for some different combination
some unique problem that you're solving
that can be part of your placement but I
think there's there's a couple factors
into it so that becomes the challenge
this time around is list those out be
you know be self-aware in your
businesses like what is your product
what is your service and this is going
to help you with things like identifying
your ideal customer uh and even pricing
and things like that um for those of you
that are watching this I think that
would be part of my bonus material that
we do offer on the YouTube side is I
want to talk a little bit about pricing
as we get into the bonus
material that being said our overtime is
coming soon because this one's wrapping
up as always should send email at info
devel or.com Reach Out Us in all the
different ways that we provide it's
whether it's a a review here where
you're listening to wherever you listen
to podcast or out on YouTube and the
developer Channel if you want to go out
to developer.com we have contact forms
we have feed Back available on every one
of our articles and all of the kind of
stuff that we've got there you can catch
us on X develop andure you can get us on
Facebook we have a developer develop
preneur page there as
well that all being said harder than it
seems sometimes go out there and have
yourself a great day a great week and we
will talk to you next
time all right bonus material before I
forget it
pricing the key to pricing is I you sort
of talked about it but I want to go back
and revisit that a little bit is the key
to pricing is not what the market will
bear necessarily or uh sometimes I mean
there is supply and demand obviously
have some level in that um but it really
is I think it comes down to what
particular with Services what is the
actual value to the customer of what you
are providing now it could be something
that's very hard number like you're
saving them time like Michael gave in
his example that it's you know you're
going to cut their processing time from
an hour to 5 minutes those are very nice
to show because it's they're hard
numbers it's you're going to save in
that case 55 minutes a day five days a
week blah blah blah what's their hourly
rate you can do these things and you can
say this is what the value is and then
figure out you the the good and the bad
is like if you know if the value is $100
a week then your
price still have to deal with your price
point do you want to save them then you
know charge them $90 a week and so
they're only saving $10 you want to
charge them $50 a week so it's only you
know it's saving $50 there's there's
things like that that come into play but
I think the first the first step is
always what truly is the value of this
to my customer uh and if it's a service
yeah sometimes it is a little easier
because it's just like this is the rate
this is the cost of doing business in
this area you're going to you know
you're going to spend X dollars an hour
for somebody that does this kind of work
and that kind of stuff you can find
through you know do some comp
competition research see what other
people Bill how they work and maybe
that's part of your you know what your
special sauce is is that you can change
your uh your cost structure so that you
can actually charge you know a little
less or you will adjust it and you
charge a little more but it shows in the
the service you provide bonus material
from you Mike yeah so it kind of tacking
on to that so one of the ways to help
you especially if you're in the service
business is go out and look at things
like freelancer.com go look at your
competition go look for services that
you provide online and find out what
other people are charging but also make
sure that you're looking at these in
your market so if you have a specific
Niche where hey I build iPhone apps look
for people that are building apps for
the iPhone if you're looking for people
that are building or if you're looking
to build a service where your app is on
every platform now you're in a bigger
market and chances are you're going to
have a lot more competition so even
there you look and see hey how can I
tailor what I do into a smaller pocket
of customers now it does reduce your
customer size but it could potentially
even increase the cost of your service
because you can provide better quality
and support a specific uh industry or
product better because you're not trying
to compete with
everyone think that's that's probably
just a good point to wrap up there I
think that is you know those are those
are a couple of key things that we
definitely want to keep in mind it's the
the market itself what's the competition
that we're going up against how are we
going to differentiate it can be a price
it can be in quality it can be in you
know all time time to delivery it could
be that you you know your goal is you
you're going to compete against maybe
even AI where you're going to say hey we
can turn this around in 24 hours or
something like that uh all of those are
things to keep in in consideration as
you're putting these together and if you
have those and you're struggling in uh
AC ing customers then maybe that's one
of the things you do is look at what
these points are that you put together
and is there something that you can
adjust that will shift you into a
different Niche um maybe suddenly
eliminate some of the competition
because they're not going to go there
but you have a value that does there
things like that to keep up with but for
now we'll wrap this one up thank you as
always for joining us we'll be back with
yes yet another episode because we've
got a ways to go in the season and we
will talk to you next time
[Music]
Transcript Segments
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[Music]

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the

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cloud and we we are live

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so just watching I had a bird just like

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land right over here it's like two feet

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away

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um all right what are we talking about

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this time do we I don't think we have

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any leftovers do we so no I I tried to

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throw one out there but apparently it

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came out uh spell check or auto correct

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really made it funny

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uh where was it which one was that I

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think I remember that something that was

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very yeah I I tried to put you pursuing

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the gold standards in your uh industry

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or product but it came out

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as that actually like yes are you

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pursuing the gold standard in your

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insults or product I'm like well of

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course I'm pursuing the gold standard in

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my insults my product I don't know but

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the I'm like the Platinum standard on my

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insults come

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on are you P are you pursuing that gold

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stand in your industry or product where

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are you thinking to go with that

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one uh so it's one of those where are

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you like if you're building a product or

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software are you building best in class

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or are you basically just

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another option in a sea of products does

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that make sense sort of like product

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positioning yeah okay I like that

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um I think that's actually not a bad

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start so what we're going to do is we're

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just going to dive right into this

116.079

sucker and we will see what happens with

118.159

product positioning and we'll figure out

120.52

the next episode after this episode do

123.56

me a favor um because this is a weird

126.719

topic if we go slightly off topic uh

130.319

just kind of hand it off with like just

132.44

remember where or you know what are your

134.48

thoughts on X Y or Z

137.16

just cuz uh I think last one or one or

140.519

two back I kind of went a totally

142.519

different direction because you kind of

146.08

deviated from the topic slightly and I

148.879

took that and went a totally different

151.44

direction well as long as it turned out

153.319

entertaining then we're good I don't

154.72

think we have to

156.92

worry yeah we just have to cover that in

159.28

the uh in the editorial stuff is to make

162.08

sure we've got the right you know that

164.28

we aren't you know we don't say it's one

165.879

topic and then do another topic U

168.36

although sometimes I have done that it's

169.8

like start off and say hey we're gonna

171.44

talk and we never talk about I'm gonna

173.76

give a little three a two a one hey how

177.36

you doing we are back or this is you

180.64

know welcome home or welcome here if

182.12

this is the first time you've been here

183.12

we are develop and or we are the

185.12

building better developers podcast the

187.04

season is actually about building better

189.159

businesses and this episode we're going

191.12

to talk about product placement now

194.08

before we do that I'm going to introduce

195.48

myself myself being Rob Broadhead one of

197.959

the founders of develop andur also a

200.319

founder of RB Consulting where we

203.84

basically we help you figure out the

206.12

best way to Wrangle all of that

208.48

technology sprawl whether you're a

210.239

little business and you're trying to

211.56

figure out whether it's you what

213.239

accounting software you're using or

214.599

whether you're a larger organization

215.84

that's trying to figure out who your IT

217.76

staff needs to be what kind of skills do

219.239

you need to have what kind of you know

221.879

ERM or CRM or Erp or ABC all of those

225.76

things that you may not even know what

227.239

they are but you hear that you've got to

229.879

get them we help you figure out what is

231.319

the best solution for you not only today

233.76

but six months and six years down the

235.36

road and our you know if you call it our

237.36

secret sauce it's not very secret

239.04

basically what we do is we sit down and

240.64

talk to you understand your business

243

look at what you have where you at and

244.72

through whether it's integration

247.28

implementation Innovation simplification

250.4

automation any shun you can think of

253.12

basically we will work with that and go

255.84

out there help you find the best

257.519

solution to your problem or problem so

259.959

that your business can be focused on

261.84

business and not technology good thing

264.199

bad thing so good thing um I mentioned

268.36

in a previous episode that we had had a

269.96

house that was we got a offers on our

272.199

house right away had a nice little like

274.68

but it was like you got to be out in two

276.039

weeks well the good thing is have made

278.759

it past that out of the house got it

280.84

closed the bad thing is

283.8

is it was bad let's just say this is

286.6

like a portion of my life I just want to

288.16

like black out and forget because it was

291

a rough time it started coming back late

293.84

on a Monday night very like I think we

296.199

got home at like 11:30 or midnight and

298.52

then at 8:00 a.m. the next day we had

300.36

movers we had lost that whole three or

302.479

four days on a cruise which was not a

304.44

bad cruise but boy it it hit us right in

307.68

the chops when we came back so if you

310.4

have a choice I recommend not doing that

313.08

but you have no choice even though I do

314.88

recommend you listen to Michael as he

316.52

introduces

317.84

himself thanks Rob hey everyone my name

320.36

is Michael Mage welcome to building

322.16

better developers

323.56

developer uh I'm one of the co-founders

326.479

like Rob I'm also the founder of

328.319

Envision QA where we are a software

331.16

company that helps businesses look at

333.639

their software stack and help them

336.039

determine if they are working with the

338.6

correct technology for their business or

340.72

if they're working for their technology

342.919

meaning that they are having to

344.4

implement processes to make this cookie

346.44

cutter software work for them our ideal

350.6

solution is to come in help you do a

352.919

software assessment of your processes

355.24

and help you kind of build a road map or

357.56

build software put the pieces in place

359.68

place that you really need to be very

361.84

successful in your business help it grow

364.039

and if you are building software we also

366.36

can bring a software team in and help

368.84

you go from a small team or a struggling

371.599

development house to a full-fledged

373.52

development team and get your products

375.599

out quicker and happier good thing bad

378.12

thing uh good thing it is finally

380.4

warming up I'm finally not freezing

382.4

anymore downside I can't go outside

385.24

without wearing a mask right now there's

387

so much pollen in the air it is just

389.84

driving my sinus is

393.28

crazy so let's talk about product

396

placement and this is this is really

398.759

important I think for us when we're

401.319

doing the side hustle because with a in

404.479

a general business I think it's

406.52

hopefully it's more likely that we have

409

spent some time we've done some market

410.68

research we've thought about our product

412.919

we we've figured out what do we want to

414.44

do we've got a we'll say a culture or

417.039

something like that within our company

418.56

that is s about this is what we're going

420.599

to do this is what we're going to

421.919

produce some notable kinds of things

424.16

would be like and apple apple has always

426.599

been you know the the gold standard

429.68

whatever they don't care about price I

431.479

mean it it's going to be pricey but the

433.24

whole point is it's G to be pricey but

435.12

it's going to be a higher end product

438.12

versus if you go like think about uh

440.44

like

441.44

McDonald's they are very much like we

443.8

want to get you affordable food quickly

446.8

things like that so there's a you know

448.599

there's a wide range and obviously those

450.72

are two companies that are very

452.24

successful and there are examples

454.84

throughout you know from the the very uh

458.16

like the people that are the

459.759

lowcost Kings and the people that are

462.639

the you have to be a king to afford our

464.96

product kind of products like where will

466.56

you go with these now Within These are

468.72

also uh there's things particularly with

471.08

software and and digital

473.56

stuff there is a level of uh where in

477.24

physical in the physical world things

478.879

wear out things just you know will

480.96

degrade over time naturally it doesn't

482.759

matter what your product is however in

485.36

the digital world it's a little

487.8

different it doesn't necess you could

489.68

run your same application on the same

491.8

operating system same machine for quite

494.56

a while and never see any degradation

496.84

now the machine itself may change but

499

especially if you have a virtual machine

500.56

which is very easy to have these days

502.159

you don't really have to worry about it

504.12

so instead it's really more some of

506.639

things like is this going to be

508.479

maintainable is as for yourself maybe

511.12

depending on how you position the

513.24

product is this something that you want

514.919

to be able to do multiple uh versions

518.32

and enhancements and upgrades is it

520.599

really more of a

521.839

oneandone uh is it something that you

523.959

want to position as a an integr an

528.04

integral part of something else for

529.76

example like I said I mentioned earlier

531.76

a CRM maybe what you have is a let's say

535.68

you have a website that's really or you

537.68

have a product that is about mail

539.6

campaigns email campaigns and that's it

541.839

you don't really care about the customer

544.36

management side anymore than you

545.72

absolutely have to and so what you end

548

up doing is you have something sort of

549.48

like a plugin maybe that would run

550.88

beside pick your favorite CRM and so

553.959

maybe you do something like that so do

555.6

you want to be Standalone do you want to

557.04

be part of something else do you want to

558.959

be that high-end product do you want to

560.48

be a lower-end product and there is a

563.64

long list of pros and cons wherever you

566.48

pick these things if you want to be

568.04

higher in then you need to be higher end

570.16

you need to make sure that you have high

571.399

quality you need to have the right

572.68

processes all those things in place to

574.76

make sure that when somebody gets it

576.48

they've paid that extra you know that

578.04

high dollar amount for it but they are

580.2

going to expect certain things and you

582.76

better deliver on it if you do great if

585.279

you don't you're G to have problems

587.2

because we're say I could buy the cheap

588.68

stuff and it would save me money and I'm

591.2

not going to get anything worse than you

592.519

do so you can you have challenges up

594.8

there depending on what you're building

596.2

and what your goal is now software

600.04

sometimes I will say that just getting a

602.92

product just solving a problem is in

606.2

itself almost the gold standard because

608.279

nobody else can do it maybe or nobody

609.92

else does it uh in a way that you do it

613.24

okay you can cut yourself some slack but

615.56

then you have on the other end is the I

618.6

want to be able to provide this at a low

620.76

cost to whoever wants it and then in

623.48

those cases you know it ends up being

625.12

like yes you're going to be able to

626.32

maybe have more people afford your

627.92

product more customers

630.24

but there with that comes the

633.48

expectation in the types of customers

635.72

that you're going to deal with we've

637.399

mentioned many times the 4our work week

639.2

and this is something that Tim Ferris

641.12

has mentioned before along with many

642.839

others that

645.48

are very all these it's about for like a

650.76

better term I'm trying to find out like

652.12

the politically correct way to do it but

653.959

just like some people are annoying more

657.6

than others and some people are really

659.839

you know are lower class or lower brow

662.68

however you want to do it and if usually

663.92

if you're buying the cheapest product

666.44

you're probably not you know you you're

669.48

more likely to be like P pinching

671.24

pennies and things like that you're

672.44

going to be more costc conscious so

673.76

you're going to be arguing that hey

675.72

instead of $10 can you get it to me for

677.48

$9 and the support of it there's there's

680.36

a wide range just a broad range of

682.12

issues that come with that now I don't

683.92

want to say that that's not necessarily

686.04

the right way to go it depends on what

687.48

your bent is it depends on what your

688.839

product is a lot of it does depend on

691.16

things like Automation and mass

693.399

production and things like that because

695.44

if you can automate your uh your

697.76

customer service so that it's maybe just

700.16

you but there's an automated piece that

701.519

could handle hundreds of thousands of

703.079

complaints and customer calls and a

704.959

given hour then go for it like roll that

707.8

dice throw that stuff out there if it's

709.32

affordable go for it if that's not what

711.399

you want to do if you want to have like

712.639

that very Personal Touch for everybody

715.399

then maybe think about maybe I don't

717.12

want to have as many customers as much

719.079

as I want to have like more of my ideal

722.32

customer less customers overall but the

724.519

ones that I have are going to be you

725.839

know more near to dear to my heart as we

727.56

would say and therefore much more a

730.6

better fit for what you're providing now

732.68

I know I've I've gone pretty broad on

734.639

this uh but I want to just sort of think

736.639

like what are your thoughts in product

737.88

placement and maybe even some of your

739.079

experiences with it Michael yeah so it's

742.32

interesting you really focused kind of

745.72

on the product itself but sometimes as a

748.56

business owner or as a uh you know we

752.079

are service providers we're not

753.48

necessarily product providers so we

754.88

don't have a physical product or

756.839

software we're actually selling our

758.48

services so that still Falls within the

761.519

conversation of product placement though

763.24

because your product in it of itself is

765.839

your services you know how are you

767.6

selling yourself or what it is that you

769.92

offer to your customers now before I

772.839

dive into that though I do want to touch

774.44

on one thing with the product placement

776

though so if you are building a product

778.8

as mentioned you know price point is

781.32

critical but the other problem you run

783.519

into potentially is competition is your

786.36

product something that is too generic or

788.8

too General that you are one of hundreds

793.44

so the problem you're going to have is

795.24

how are you going to stand out how is

796.959

your product going to differentiate from

798.959

those other uh competitors and price

802.32

points one of the big things Rob

803.72

mentioned using automation uh things to

806.36

improve you know time to Market you know

809.12

lower your cost there's still some

811.72

issues with that because if you are

814.399

trying to sell a product in a vast

818.12

industry or with vast competition you

820.959

have to be very careful to position

824.279

yourself in a way that people don't

825.72

forget about you or you're going to run

827.6

into what Rob was mentioning where

829.44

you're going to have those Penny

830.959

Pinchers or not even really that but one

832.88

customer saying well why is your product

834.88

50 bucks but this person over here is

836.759

$10 so you've got to be very careful

840.399

where you place your product now if you

843.279

are more of a niche more of a um Etsy

848.44

kind of person Etsy is a great place but

850.36

Etsy still has its competition the other

853.16

thing you could look at is maybe smaller

854.92

markets like your local uh towns flea

857.92

markets uh other areas like that but in

860.92

the digital world most of your customers

862.88

are going to be online so you're going

864.079

to have to figure out how to place

866.24

yourself in a position where you stand

868.48

out so either it is better quality

871.199

product use higher quality materials

873.36

which does justify the cost but you need

875.6

to make sure that the cost is still

877.92

something that you can pass on to your

879.6

customer that your customer can afford

881.16

your product so just some caveats there

882.959

to be careful of if you're doing a

884.519

product based um company and you're

888.44

trying to position it all right I want

891.04

to flip over to the service side now

892.8

because Services is a little more of

896.12

what me and Rob kind of do uh from a

898.279

Consulting from a developer perspective

900.959

we're out there providing software

903.48

services to companies we build software

905.8

we provide services we help them analyze

908.8

do assessments things of that nature the

911.32

problem is if your customer is non

915.48

technical or your customer is very

917.8

technical you're going to run into a

919.399

couple situations one how are you going

922.279

to justify your cost to sell your

924.759

product to someone that knows nothing

926.839

about what you do what what is the value

929.839

of what you're providing so the first

932.279

thing I want to talk about is value how

934.56

are you going to show your service will

939

provide value to their business so if

942

you're a software company I build

944.72

software that can improve your

946.959

production time so if you have this

948.44

clunky old 30-year old system that is

952.12

working but it takes you two hours to do

954.639

something that you can do in 5 minutes

957.36

right there you can show a Justified

959.319

here if I come in I can help you do this

962.639

which will eliminate 45 minutes 2 and 1

965.12

half hours whatever from your day

967.12

multiply that by a week and suddenly

970.759

your cost savings are going to be

972.399

justified that hey if I provide you four

974.48

weeks of work at X I'm going to save you

977.199

6 months worth of value over time so

980.519

those are just some calculations you can

982

do to kind of help justify the cost of

985.399

reducing service times you know your

987.48

cost coming in will reduce red their

989.319

overall return on their investment or

991.72

increase their return on investment the

994.079

other thing is trying to talk to

997.839

customers well not necessarily as a

1000

service but when you're talking about

1001.36

building them software like websites are

1003.8

a very good example I don't like really

1006.48

building websites for customers because

1009.12

a lot of times there's too much

1010.519

competition out there you can go to like

1011.88

Fiverr you can go to uh freelancer

1014.12

there's so many places where people can

1015.72

just quickly throw up a website and AI

1018.24

is making that even more difficult with

1020.839

all these uh like Wix uh Ary or all

1025.52

these like host Gators they all have ai

1027.919

now so basically you just go fill in a

1029.48

couple questionnaire boom you've got a

1032.559

website how are you going to compete

1034.959

with that so be careful when you're

1037.679

offering services that you're also like

1040.679

the product you're not offering

1042.12

something that is too generic or too has

1045.079

too much competition in the industry one

1048.24

of the interesting ways I heard someone

1050.36

explain how they essentially build and

1053.12

sell websites is they offer like Rob

1055.919

actually mentions in some of his uh

1057.84

pitches they they offer a boutique

1060.679

experience they come in they walk

1063.36

through the life of a customer and then

1065

they build the website from a customer's

1067.64

experience totally different approach

1069.919

it's still building a website but the

1071.84

pitch is different enough that it makes

1074.16

them stand out so the second thing here

1078.24

is your pitch how are you presenting to

1081.799

your customers and are you presenting to

1084.64

the right customer base so you again

1087.559

this is like the products you want to

1089.12

make sure that the price you're charging

1091.64

for your service for the product that

1093.48

you're going to build is in the right

1096.159

price range for that Target Market

1098.32

because if you're too low you're going

1099.84

to get the people well hey I want this

1102

and you're going to run into situations

1103.6

where it costs you too much in time not

1106

enough in returns you actually lose

1107.52

money on the deal so those are a couple

1109.96

of things that I think of when I talk

1111.919

think about product placement any

1114.2

additional thoughts on sorry yeah and I

1116.48

think you know

1117.919

really there is a difference in the

1120.84

service side versus the product side

1122.76

definitely and on the service side it is

1126.32

um I think it's a little more dangerous

1128.24

a little bit because as Michael alluded

1130.2

to is that there is a there's a Time

1132.44

cost that can often be hidden that maybe

1135.919

you want to spend as I mentioned like

1137.36

you want to have a better connection a

1139.84

better relationship with your customers

1142.159

well that is going to require time that

1144.36

requires investing in those

1146.559

relationships and your customers and all

1148.36

of the things that that you know involve

1151.36

that and it can be something that if

1153.88

it's not part of your uh your billable

1157.76

hours or your contracts or things like

1159.72

that then it's essentially free time

1161.559

it's comp it's time that you are not

1163

charging for and over time that can

1165.44

actually become um you know

1167.919

unsustainable basically because you can

1169.679

only be split so many ways now you can

1173.799

you know hire people and things like

1175.2

that but then there's a cost and all of

1177.44

those things continue so I think that's

1179.72

with a service it's it is definitely

1181.799

something that you want to and again

1184.159

this goes back to the developer side of

1186.159

this whole

1187.28

thing what from a service point of view

1190.48

there are you can position yourself in

1193.2

uh technology stacks and things like

1195.24

that you can be somebody that is a uh a

1198.44

a big provider on like your upworks or

1200.64

your gurus or you know those kinds of

1202.559

sites or you can be somebody that is uh

1204.6

very active in maybe LinkedIn or one of

1206.88

the job sites that is you know like a

1208.52

monster or somebody like that where

1209.88

you're you're working with lot of stuff

1211.44

or as Michael alluded maybe you're part

1213.12

of your local you know rotary club or

1215.96

something like that you're part of one

1217.12

of these local organizations or meetups

1220.44

and things like that where that's really

1221.84

where you're your Niche is is you're

1224

just going to go with that you know sort

1225.72

of that geographically small area you

1229.08

may also want to go with something

1230.24

technology or or line of business small

1233.12

so instead of uh I'm in healthc care

1235.44

maybe you are in um devices for heart

1242.039

transplants Health Care you know

1243.919

something that's like very much more

1245.36

Niche but then you can also maybe you

1248.559

know charge a little better charge a

1250.24

little more but also you don't have to

1253.159

you you don't have to have a pitch to

1255.2

large numbers of people you can actually

1256.84

have a more much more personal pitch to

1258.6

to maybe potentially every single

1260.679

customer and I think that is a value we

1263.08

provide as when we're sending out we're

1265.36

going out there to provide a

1267.32

service part of that is how we build

1270.64

that relationship how we maintain that

1272.88

relationship and where that fits in and

1276.039

so you know some of it you want to think

1277.679

about and this gets into the challenge

1279.32

is your challenge is what is your

1282.36

primary product and where if you had to

1285.72

get give let's say five bullet points

1287.76

that are placement points on your

1290.08

product what would they be would it be

1292.72

something around um pricing for example

1295.72

like we you know we give you the best

1297.96

deal or

1300.279

we you know we are the the Porsche of

1304.2

this product or the service is it have

1306.48

to do with the the customer experience

1309.679

you know some places that's the whole

1311.44

thing is like is it all about the

1313.36

customer walking away and your product

1315.559

may or may not be great but their

1317.559

experience with you in your product or

1319.64

your service is great uh does it have to

1322.6

do with um like a niche or something

1326.279

like that like are you as part of it is

1328.6

that you place your product in a area

1330.44

where others don't maybe you're a

1331.88

combination of things that others aren't

1334.159

you know maybe you're the first um you

1336.559

create shoes that have you know for

1338.799

example uh you shoes could have bells on

1341.24

them but maybe you have shoes that have

1342.799

fidget Spinners on them if somebody

1344.159

wants to sit there and fidget spin their

1345.919

shoes I don't know there's you know you

1348.32

look look for some different combination

1350.4

some unique problem that you're solving

1352.76

that can be part of your placement but I

1355.48

think there's there's a couple factors

1357.4

into it so that becomes the challenge

1359.48

this time around is list those out be

1363.36

you know be self-aware in your

1364.76

businesses like what is your product

1366.2

what is your service and this is going

1368.159

to help you with things like identifying

1370.799

your ideal customer uh and even pricing

1373.6

and things like that um for those of you

1376.72

that are watching this I think that

1378.159

would be part of my bonus material that

1380.12

we do offer on the YouTube side is I

1382.24

want to talk a little bit about pricing

1384.2

as we get into the bonus

1385.72

material that being said our overtime is

1390.08

coming soon because this one's wrapping

1391.72

up as always should send email at info

1394.279

devel or.com Reach Out Us in all the

1396.559

different ways that we provide it's

1398.159

whether it's a a review here where

1399.72

you're listening to wherever you listen

1401.52

to podcast or out on YouTube and the

1403.6

developer Channel if you want to go out

1405.279

to developer.com we have contact forms

1407.48

we have feed Back available on every one

1409.679

of our articles and all of the kind of

1411.72

stuff that we've got there you can catch

1413.08

us on X develop andure you can get us on

1415.72

Facebook we have a developer develop

1417.84

preneur page there as

1420.08

well that all being said harder than it

1423.679

seems sometimes go out there and have

1425.52

yourself a great day a great week and we

1427.6

will talk to you next

1430

time all right bonus material before I

1432.48

forget it

1435.52

pricing the key to pricing is I you sort

1439.159

of talked about it but I want to go back

1440.96

and revisit that a little bit is the key

1442.799

to pricing is not what the market will

1445.4

bear necessarily or uh sometimes I mean

1448.88

there is supply and demand obviously

1450.64

have some level in that um but it really

1453.6

is I think it comes down to what

1455.2

particular with Services what is the

1457.679

actual value to the customer of what you

1460.96

are providing now it could be something

1462.76

that's very hard number like you're

1464.12

saving them time like Michael gave in

1465.799

his example that it's you know you're

1467.24

going to cut their processing time from

1468.919

an hour to 5 minutes those are very nice

1471.24

to show because it's they're hard

1472.76

numbers it's you're going to save in

1474.36

that case 55 minutes a day five days a

1476.919

week blah blah blah what's their hourly

1478.44

rate you can do these things and you can

1480.279

say this is what the value is and then

1482.399

figure out you the the good and the bad

1484.52

is like if you know if the value is $100

1486.48

a week then your

1489.279

price still have to deal with your price

1491.48

point do you want to save them then you

1493.52

know charge them $90 a week and so

1495.559

they're only saving $10 you want to

1497

charge them $50 a week so it's only you

1498.919

know it's saving $50 there's there's

1500.72

things like that that come into play but

1503.48

I think the first the first step is

1506

always what truly is the value of this

1509.52

to my customer uh and if it's a service

1513.279

yeah sometimes it is a little easier

1514.76

because it's just like this is the rate

1516.48

this is the cost of doing business in

1518.52

this area you're going to you know

1519.919

you're going to spend X dollars an hour

1521.84

for somebody that does this kind of work

1523.76

and that kind of stuff you can find

1525

through you know do some comp

1526.48

competition research see what other

1528.559

people Bill how they work and maybe

1531.08

that's part of your you know what your

1532.799

special sauce is is that you can change

1534.72

your uh your cost structure so that you

1537.64

can actually charge you know a little

1539.279

less or you will adjust it and you

1541.2

charge a little more but it shows in the

1543.76

the service you provide bonus material

1546

from you Mike yeah so it kind of tacking

1549.84

on to that so one of the ways to help

1551.84

you especially if you're in the service

1553.36

business is go out and look at things

1554.919

like freelancer.com go look at your

1556.799

competition go look for services that

1559.36

you provide online and find out what

1561.48

other people are charging but also make

1564.799

sure that you're looking at these in

1567.2

your market so if you have a specific

1569.32

Niche where hey I build iPhone apps look

1573.919

for people that are building apps for

1576.159

the iPhone if you're looking for people

1578.24

that are building or if you're looking

1579.84

to build a service where your app is on

1581.799

every platform now you're in a bigger

1584

market and chances are you're going to

1585.64

have a lot more competition so even

1587.84

there you look and see hey how can I

1590

tailor what I do into a smaller pocket

1593.919

of customers now it does reduce your

1596.279

customer size but it could potentially

1598.08

even increase the cost of your service

1600.72

because you can provide better quality

1602.799

and support a specific uh industry or

1605.919

product better because you're not trying

1608.12

to compete with

1612

everyone think that's that's probably

1614.36

just a good point to wrap up there I

1615.76

think that is you know those are those

1617.08

are a couple of key things that we

1618.399

definitely want to keep in mind it's the

1620.679

the market itself what's the competition

1622.6

that we're going up against how are we

1623.96

going to differentiate it can be a price

1626.279

it can be in quality it can be in you

1627.88

know all time time to delivery it could

1630.399

be that you you know your goal is you

1633.44

you're going to compete against maybe

1634.48

even AI where you're going to say hey we

1635.96

can turn this around in 24 hours or

1638.279

something like that uh all of those are

1640.279

things to keep in in consideration as

1643.279

you're putting these together and if you

1645.44

have those and you're struggling in uh

1647.88

AC ing customers then maybe that's one

1649.679

of the things you do is look at what

1650.72

these points are that you put together

1652.159

and is there something that you can

1654.159

adjust that will shift you into a

1655.64

different Niche um maybe suddenly

1658.2

eliminate some of the competition

1659.48

because they're not going to go there

1660.6

but you have a value that does there

1662.919

things like that to keep up with but for

1665.64

now we'll wrap this one up thank you as

1668.12

always for joining us we'll be back with

1670.64

yes yet another episode because we've

1672.36

got a ways to go in the season and we

1674.039

will talk to you next time

1678.07

[Music]