Detailed Notes
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of our podcast series on the developer journey. Today, we’re diving into a crucial topic: finding balance by knowing when to take a step back, pause, or even pivot. This is particularly significant in the tech world, where developers often find themselves deep in the weeds, laser-focused on their projects.
Read More ... https://develpreneur.com/finding-balance-the-importance-of-pausing-and-pivoting-in-tech
Stay Connected: Join the Developreneur Community We invite you to join our community and share your coding journey with us. Whether you’re a seasoned developer or just starting, there’s always room to learn and grow together. Contact us at [email protected] with your questions, feedback, or suggestions for future episodes. Together, let’s continue exploring the exciting world of software development.
Additional Resources * Avoid Burnout – Give Time To Yourself (https://develpreneur.com/avoid-burnout-give-time-to-yourself/)
* Detecting And Beating Burnout – An Interview with Victor Manzo (https://develpreneur.com/detecting-and-beating-burnout-an-interview-with-victor-manzo/)
* Three Signs Of Burnout – Address These Before Its Too Late (https://develpreneur.com/three-signs-of-burnout-address-these-before-its-too-late/)
* Three Ways To Avoid Burnout (https://develpreneur.com/three-ways-to-avoid-burnout/)
Transcript Text
[Music] I've got it wide enough so I can my button hello everybody we were right in the middle of a conversation literally and I clicked record cuz I could find the button this time because my window in Zoom was big enough that it actually showed up instead of me having to like dig around on stuff so we need to figure out some topics what I don't know have you thrown something out there in the world of slack that was well it started to and then I got pulled back on a production issue uh let's see what is is here we go here's podcast ideas oh NOP that was some of the stuff well no that was some of the things that we talked about a little bit um have we talked about when to walk away and take a break no not yet I don't think we really gotten into that and that's a it's more tip and trick than a developer Journey kind of thing but well it could be because it could be through your career you could hit a point where you're like I am right now you know life happens and then work piles on top of that and you're like I need to take time off and I even mentioned that to my boss two weeks ago that once we get done with this push I need to take time off well that push became another two sprints and I I'm well past that point so it's like he he actually told me today it's like uh you know take some time off so it's like fine I'll take time off but it's one of those where it's like sometimes you don't know you're so far in the weeds and I see that as a journey because we all go through this but a lot of people don't know the signs to look for or even realize that they're in that uh I guess negativity cycle or that downward cycle where you're kind of self-feeding like you know you you know what I'm trying to say here you just kind into that rude that cycle instead of things getting better you're just kind of keeping things balance you're just kind of cycling downward yeah there's sort of that diminishing point of Returns on that so that's probably not a bad one I think we seems like we've touched on it sometime but that's okay we'll see we'll go into it and then just sort of see where it goes because that often works out pretty darn well for us so I'm G to take a sip of my tea first there we go little audio test and and we'll get going well hello and welcome back we are continuing our season we're talking about the developer journey and this episode got right to the topic we're going to talk about effectively when to take a step back when to pause when to you know maybe even pivot a little bit and things of along those lines because sometimes we get a little too caught up you know we get it's part of the natures we get deep in the weeds we get really focused on whatever that project is that job is that we're working on those kinds of things and the next thing you know you're like wow you're just spinning your wheels and this isn't like death march stuff it's more like you're in a situation where you just need to you effectively take a break but before we get into that need to introduce myself my my name is Rob Broadhead I am one of the founders of developing building better developers also a founder of RB Consulting where we really focus on leveraging technology so find ways to take your technology sprawl and integrate automate simplify and turn it into a lean mean technology machine instead of the big honking ugly hulky thing that you've had in the past which also will be a topic I think at some point is like some of these which we've talked about a few times some of these situations where people have just stuck around with a technology way too long Windows XP I'm looking at you as one of those things I'm also looking at Michael who's on the other side I'm gonna let him introduce himself well hello everyone my name is Michael Mage I am another founder of developing ER building better developers and I'm also the founder of Envision QA so if you're a small and midsize business or clinic clinical U nurse doctor whatever looking to build custom software or you're like Rob said you have software that's like this monolith or old archaic that you don't know if it's working for you anymore give us a call so taking a step back this is we've touched on this in uh some in past seasons and things like that and it's really it's about it is about productivity versus activity there's a difference between being busy and being productive and in particular I think we as developers get into this situation particularly early on but even as we get you know late into our career sometimes where we are really focused we're it's I call it sometimes it's the 90% high or the 99% high it's like I'm I'm almost done I've almost got this figured out and so you you feel the in like the the line is just about there you're almost to the finish line and because it's technology or it's programming or whatever it is the line moves so you're like I am one configur Iration file correction from making this all works and then you do and then you realize that oh that was actually a layer of an onion you unpeeled it and now you're back in but you're almost done again and while that can carry us for a while that the Endorphin head of basically like I'm almost there I'm almost there I'm almost there there's a point where it's just like you're like a crack addict or something is you've just had too much of that and it doesn't work and it's really the the challenge is figuring out when have you hit a point where you're not being productive anymore and you're really starting to spin your wheels now it doesn't mean that you aren't moving the ball forward a little bit but what happens is like when you're fresh you can just you know you can hit it and you can be moving the ball forward quite a bit but then as you get further into these kinds of Cycles you're not as effective you're not as productive and so now you're slowing down your ability to move the ball forward and it could eventually get to a point where you you know you burn out or something like that and it just you hit that wall but even without hitting the wall and burning out there is you know definitely periods of time where you just need to walk away to take a break whether it is during a day and it's just you know during your work day and you've got some problem that's really bugging you or it could be over a longer period of time where you know maybe you haven't had a vacation in Forever you know maybe you can't even remember the last time you took a break you took a day off or anything like that and you do need to it's we are not built we're not machines we are not built to run 247 and no matter how important your project is or your your task is there are going to be times where it's like you it's been too important for too long it's like firefighting sometimes you get in a situation at your job it's like there's a bug there's an error there's a bug there's an era it's critical it's critical it's critical and then you've just like you've been running around chasing fires putting them out saving lives basically for who knows how long and you get to a point where you just can't do it anymore you've got to no matter sometimes this no matter how critical stuff is you will be better off everybody will be better off if you step back and take a break and I think that is one of the hardest things for us to learn is where that line is between determined and driven and driving yourself insane there you go that's a good little talk it over to you Mike oh sanity oh very much so you know like you were saying you know this is like that within our developer journey and to me when I hear you know walking away or you know burn out things like that I picture a person taking a bottle of water walking out into the desert and as they start running out of water they start slowing down they start crawling and then eventually you hit that Oasis and it's like oh I can relax I can and then you have to walk all the way back in your Slug and and and then you finally make it but that's just an analogy for what really happens in this journey you know if you haven't hit it yet you're going to experience this at some point I mean unless you're just one of these people that is always happy go-lucky and somehow just doesn't you know can really not have anything really stick to and you just really don't stress it too much interestingly enough through this process I actually have put up some kind of guard rails and kind of I guess temperature test to kind of keep me on track personally as I'm going through this process and one of the big things is okay how long have I been working on a particular issue or Sprint repeatedly like how many times am I working on the same issue again and again you know you mentioned that but the funny thing is if you're in this firefighting mode so long and you're making all these little changes the problem is you eventually lose sight of what the big picture was you're now way down that rabbit hole and you might have completely Rewritten what was supposed to be there into something else and now you got to take a step back and it's like well now what does it do um how do we fix this how do we and you're in a whole different bucket uh of water you know hot water the other thing is personally if I like I like playing video games I like going to the gym I like reading books listening to audio books you know working in the art occasionally if I start finding out that I'm not doing that as much and I'm stuck right here in this chair more times than I like that's another red flag so when I start seeing those things it's like okay I need to start getting up I need to go back to the gym for a little bit I mean there are times in your life where you need to walk away and there are times where yes the appliance is on fire you have to sit there until it's out or at least fixed enough that the world isn't falling apart so personally it's a balancing act and more times out of not you miss you see the signs but you miss that critical Tipping Point where it's like I really should have walked away a week ago or yesterday or an hour ago uh it just start looking at your conversations the people you're talking to are you starting to see more problems in what they're doing are you seeing more problems in what you're doing like is the code is the environment are you like oh I made this change now it's not working and and you just kind of get in these cycles of blame you're either blaming yourself you're blaming the co code that's another kind of like really red flag at that point you need to take a day off or you need to stop and walk away for a little bit you know these are just some of the things I run into what are some of the signs you typically see Rob as you you know you go through this as well well it's interesting that you you know there's two things there that I wanted to touch on is you you mentioned guard rails and the other thing is the you know sometimes it's on fire and you have to deal with it and I'll go with that one first is it's you have to be cognizant of how often that thing is on fire a good example was we were having issues with a customer this is you know years ago we had issues with this customer that was like they would send us stuff and we there was never really prioritization or anything and so we really didn't know like it's like you just got to do everything and it's got to be done tomorrow kind of thing and it just we we said hey we've got to like back off we have to pace ourselves we can't just you know you can't work 24/7 and just every time there's something it's critical and you got to go fix it it's not life or death and so we said hey we're going to have a list of issues they're all there and then we need you to help us out and help us prioritize you know what are we going to what needs to be done like what's immediately what's critical and what isn't and she proceeds to set every single thing is critical and we're like okay we had to push back we said okay let's walk through this this thing how critical is that and it was like you know this thing is a different color blue than I want or something say okay it's not that critical okay well we're going to pull it off the critical list because we don't need that we don't need you cannot run around and saying the world is on fire and the sky is falling with every little thing and I know it may feel that way and it may but that's where we have to push back sometimes because there are going to be and we talked about this actually just before this we got into this is there is a perception that our customers or our boss or people like that will have because they touch a certain you know they they work with an application or software we've built they don't understand because they just see it it works or it doesn't just black or white they don't see the difference between oh that's a typo that we can fix in two seconds versus that's a critical system like that's a architectural flaw that's got to be Rewritten it's going to take months and they don't know necessarily sometimes how important it is and sometimes we don't which is where we have to have that conversation is how critical really is this thing it's things like if you're stopping a critical release if you come into a go or no go go and you're stopping it because the text on this alert message is a little off you may want to rethink that you may want like is it really that critical particularly if you could roll that out and then you could just pick pick it right back up in the next release cycle or you know something like that that doesn't even require a full release so don't be afraid to push back in those kinds of situations and as as Michael said I think one of them is when you're when you find yourself doing the same thing over and over and over again A lot of times it's because you've gone down a rabbit hole and at some point you have to look at it and say wait a minute I I need to reset because I'm chasing this thing and I'm not I'm chasing symptoms I'm not actually going after the core problem and that's that's very critical and I'll toss it back to you but first I want to talk a little bit about the guard rails it helps a lot to use your calendar to your advantage schedule like regular workouts schedule time you know downtime and it could be at the beginning or the end of your day uh it can also be stuff like have a day that's you know either depending on what your schedule is and things you do either have like your weekends are always booked as far as anybody's concerned so that you can go do stuff or maybe it's just you know your Saturdays or your Sundays or your you know your Thursday nights or whatever a guy I worked with years ago that was a total workaholic still had you know 5:00 P PM Sunday until he went to bed was family time that was you know that was the key as he was like I'm going to that is time that I'm not going to give up to anybody else and he stuck with it and it's it's hard not to respect that when you're say it's a five-day work week if you're already demanding stuff of them on Saturday and Sunday morning you can take a couple hours off and so don't be afraid to to push back on that a little bit and the reality that we can't work 7 247 that we do need downtime that we do need time to to be able to even to like you know assess what we're working on and to Think Through the problems and it can't just be firefighting all the time thoughts on those yeah I like the counter idea but unfortunately in this day and age calendars can be overused or ignored it's just another you know another tool in our Arsenal that it it's could potentially be another notification overload where if you're already burned out that's just one more thing to add to it so if you do go that route recommend definitely look at using additional tools with that that we've talked about before like maybe putting your phone on Focus or turning other things off so that while you're in that period you're not getting you're not still getting bombarded by other avenues by other uh externals um Avenues the other thing that was kind of interesting there is you talked about you know going down the rabbit hole um is seeing the big picture sometimes and it's interesting cuz you and I have both worked together on multiple projects and for similar bosses in the past we have had cases where it's not even just that the manager knows about coding they actually know the code they may have been people that have written the code in the past so in their mind they see what this how the code is or conceptionally was not necessarily where it is today and as they start giving out requirements you start getting things that might mismatch so as you get into the code and you start making these changes you get into that cycle of it's broken it's broken it's broken or they don't give you all the requirements I I love this one you touched on this uh briefly before we jumped into the podcast side where you know you get into writing the code you're getting ready to deliver you've gone through the so-called test period uat with the users and you find out there's more requirements that weren't talked about so now here you are rushing to get maybe some critical pieces in before you can even go live and that is you know that can occur with this and but these are things that you just have to kind of be careful of and be mindful of because the big thing is as you go through this journey it is a journey you will have ups and downs it's a matter of kind of figuring out that Tipping Point when you're starting to slide too far down to pull yourself back up and that could be pivoting to reading books playing video games writing something else maybe teaching just do something else maybe go for a walk but just find the time to recognize I need to take a pause you know we talked about the promotive U I can never say that right Pomodoro folks pomodoro this is a running joke we have but um but use tools like that to help you reset especially when you start feeling that you're in those Cycles yeah and I think I think a good example uh that we've got we do have people that can you know can point to us and and we've got uh our bosses our co-workers and things like that that can help us out a little bit and and help us know when we've like you know crossed lines and stuff a good example of things that we need to be uh cognizant of I guess as we sort of wrap this one up is when people are trying to reach out and help us out a perfect example was last night I had spent I'd been heads down all day and it was sort of funny because my wife was like Hey we're gonna have a date night we're just going to go have some drinks and play pool and I was like that sounds great two hours later I was still heads down and I was because I was going to make dinner and I was like okay now we're going to have dinner because I didn't even get dinner made but it was was one of those when I like I got up off out of my desk and I was like we need to go and she like and she could tell it's like I need to go now I need to get away from my desk I need to get away from the work I need to go away and it's it it didn't really impact like the stuff I wanted to do yes I was a little bit in the zone and I but I went away had a couple drinks played pool took a big long nap woke up in the middle of night basically ready to work again and then and dove into it for a while it's like and I'm old I'm not a young person I'm not like 20 years old where you do this all the time some of you can and when I was that young I could so don't be afraid to just like sometimes pull yourself out particularly when you're working long hours and you've got stuff that are natural rhythms whether it's taking a lunch break or it's time for dinner or time to go to bed or have a weekend or something like that is is finding way to take advantage of those because yes we overdo those all the time and we want to show off how awesome we are that we didn't you know we didn't sleep for three weeks and we got that project done but it is not the way to go the way to go however is to give us feedback on this is to provide us comments to send us emails let us know what you think let us know the topics that you like if you have any requests we are open to those you can shoot us an email at info@ developer.com you can go out to Dev veneur dcom that is d v p ne.com you can also find us on the YouTube you can find school. developer.com you can find some more content and stuff to go through there however you subscribe to podcast Please Subscribe and uh you know send us some give us some feedback let us know where you want to go and where you find Value and where we can give you more because we are here not only for us but also for you that being said we are still going to be here we're not done this is not our last episode not even the one of the season so we're going to come back and continue talking about the developer Journey as always though go out there and have yourself a great day a great week and we will talk to you next time bonus material yeah the I guess one other thing to consider that we didn't touch on is sometimes it's okay to just pause if you spend more like if you have a Tas that you think should take an hour and you're into your second hour walk away go take 15 minute break 20 minute break walk away come back spend about 15 more minutes on it if you're still getting nowhere time to ask for help go out talk to your boss talk to your co-workers talk to the project manager see if maybe revisiting what the requirements are what this problem is might not jog something or even give you a different perspective on what it is that you're trying to do sometimes that little pivot is enough to be like ah okay I'm unblocked and you're smooth sailing again you're out of that downward cycle I would add to that um in modern days your favorite search engine whether that's Google or somebody like that or chat GPT or something like that because there's while those things may not be they may not be specific enough for your problem it is amazing how many times I've just done like random Google searches based on something and it will it will trigger something where it's like oh yeah that's what I need to do it's like you know it's like it is it's like almost a second set of eyes where somebody's like hey did you look at that over there and you're like oh shoot I missed that because I've been focused over here it's things like that that it just it helps you sometimes even if you just go for a walk and talk to yourself while you're doing it obviously people are going to stare at you a little bit but those kind of things it just helps to get away for a minute to get so that you're not like you know you're not so focused on that and you start getting the blinders on instead that you open up and suddenly there are going to be some opportunities that will will jump out in front of you opportunities for you guys are to leave us qu comments questions all that kind of good feedback stuff we are always going to provide some almost always I think we've missed once so we're almost always going to provide bonus material for you guys out here in the YouTube world because that's the you know the value for Value we give that you have to look at our face longer than these other people just get to hear our awesome voices so go out there and have yourself a good one and we'll come back next time around and dive right back into some bonus material a little pre pre-show work and then off to that next podcast episode have yourself a good one [Music]
Transcript Segments
[Music]
I've got it wide enough so I can my
button hello everybody we were right in
the middle of a conversation literally
and I clicked record cuz I could find
the button this time because my window
in Zoom was big enough that it actually
showed up instead of me having to like
dig around on stuff
so we need to figure out some topics
what I don't know have you thrown
something out there in the world of
slack that was well it started to and
then I got pulled back on a production
issue uh let's see what is
is here we go here's podcast
ideas oh NOP that was some of the stuff
well no that was some of the things that
we talked about a little bit
um have we talked about when to walk
away and take a break no not yet I don't
think we really gotten into that and
that's
a it's more tip and trick than a
developer Journey kind of thing
but well it could be because it could be
through your career you could hit a
point where you're like I am right now
you know life happens and then work
piles on top of that and you're
like I need to take time off
and I even mentioned that to my boss two
weeks ago that once we get done with
this push I need to take time off well
that push became another two sprints
and I I'm well past that point so it's
like he he actually told me today it's
like uh you know take some time off so
it's like fine I'll take time off but
it's one of those where it's like
sometimes you don't know you're so far
in the
weeds and I see that as a journey
because we all go through this but a lot
of people don't know the signs to look
for or even realize that they're in
that uh I guess negativity cycle or that
downward cycle where you're kind of
self-feeding like you know you you know
what I'm trying to say here you just
kind into that rude that cycle instead
of things getting better you're just
kind of keeping things balance you're
just kind of cycling downward yeah
there's sort of that diminishing point
of Returns on that so that's probably
not a bad one I think we seems like
we've touched on it sometime but that's
okay we'll see we'll go into it and then
just sort of see where it goes because
that often works out pretty darn well
for us so I'm G to take a sip of my tea
first there we go little audio test
and and we'll get going well hello and
welcome back we are continuing our
season we're talking about the developer
journey and this episode got right to
the topic we're going to talk about
effectively when to take a step back
when to pause when to you know maybe
even pivot a little bit and things of
along those lines because sometimes we
get a little too caught up you know we
get it's part of the natures we get deep
in the weeds we get really focused on
whatever that project is that job is
that we're working on those kinds of
things and the next thing you know
you're like wow you're just spinning
your wheels and this isn't like death
march stuff it's more like you're in a
situation where you just need to you
effectively take a break but before we
get into that need to introduce myself
my my name is Rob Broadhead I am one of
the founders of developing building
better developers also a founder of RB
Consulting where we really focus on
leveraging technology so find ways to
take your technology sprawl and
integrate automate simplify and turn it
into a lean mean technology machine
instead of the big honking ugly hulky
thing that you've had in the past which
also will be a topic I think at some
point is like some of these which we've
talked about a few times some of these
situations where people have just stuck
around
with a technology way too long Windows
XP I'm looking at you as one of those
things I'm also looking at Michael who's
on the other side I'm gonna let him
introduce
himself well hello everyone my name is
Michael Mage I am another founder of
developing ER building better developers
and I'm also the founder of Envision QA
so if you're a small and midsize
business or clinic clinical U nurse
doctor whatever looking to build custom
software or you're like Rob said you
have software that's like this monolith
or old archaic that you don't know if
it's working for you anymore give us a
call so taking a step back this is we've
touched on this in uh some in past
seasons and things like that and it's
really it's
about it is about productivity versus
activity there's a difference between
being busy and being productive and in
particular I think we as developers get
into this situation particularly early
on but even as we get you know late into
our career sometimes where we
are really focused we're it's I call it
sometimes it's the 90% high or the 99%
high it's like I'm I'm almost done I've
almost got this figured out and so you
you feel the in like the the line is
just about there you're almost to the
finish line and because it's technology
or it's programming or whatever it is
the line moves so you're like I am one
configur Iration file correction from
making this all works and then you do
and then you realize that oh that was
actually a layer of an onion you
unpeeled it and now you're back in but
you're almost done again and
while that can carry us for a while that
the Endorphin head of basically like I'm
almost there I'm almost there I'm almost
there there's a point where it's just
like you're like a crack addict or
something is you've just had too much of
that and it doesn't work and it's really
the the challenge is figuring out when
have you hit a point where you're not
being productive anymore and you're
really starting to spin your wheels now
it doesn't mean that you aren't moving
the ball forward a little bit but what
happens is like when you're fresh you
can just you know you can hit it and you
can be moving the ball forward quite a
bit but then as you get further into
these kinds of Cycles you're not as
effective you're not as productive and
so now you're slowing down your ability
to move the ball forward and it could
eventually get to a point where you you
know you burn out or something like that
and it just you hit that wall but even
without hitting the wall and burning out
there is you know definitely periods of
time where you just need to walk away to
take a break whether it is during a day
and it's just you know during your work
day and you've got some problem that's
really bugging you or it could be over a
longer period of time where you know
maybe you haven't had a vacation in
Forever you know maybe you can't even
remember the last time you took a break
you took a day off or anything like that
and you do need to it's we are not built
we're not machines we are not built to
run
247 and no matter how important your
project is or your your task
is there are going to be times where
it's like you it's been too important
for too long it's like firefighting
sometimes you get in a situation at your
job it's like there's a bug there's an
error there's a bug there's an era it's
critical it's critical it's critical and
then you've just like you've been
running around chasing fires putting
them out saving lives basically for who
knows how long and you get to a point
where you just can't do it anymore
you've got to no matter sometimes this
no matter how critical stuff is you will
be better off everybody will be better
off if you step back and take a break
and I think that is one of the hardest
things for us to learn is where that
line is
between determined and driven and
driving yourself insane there you go
that's a good little talk it over to you
Mike oh sanity oh very much so you know
like you were saying you know this is
like that within our developer journey
and to me when I hear you know walking
away or you know burn out things like
that I picture a person taking a bottle
of water walking out into the desert and
as they start running out of water they
start slowing down they start crawling
and then eventually you hit that Oasis
and it's like oh I can relax I can and
then you have to walk all the way back
in your Slug and and and then you
finally make it but that's just an
analogy for what really happens in this
journey you know if you haven't hit it
yet you're going to experience this at
some point I mean unless you're just one
of these people that is always happy
go-lucky and somehow just doesn't you
know can really not have anything really
stick to and you just really don't
stress it too
much interestingly enough through this
process I actually have put up some kind
of guard
rails and kind of I guess temperature
test to kind of keep me on track
personally as I'm going through this
process and one of the big things is
okay how long have I been working on a
particular issue or
Sprint repeatedly like how many times am
I working on the same issue again and
again you know you mentioned that but
the funny thing is if you're in this
firefighting mode so long and you're
making all these little changes the
problem is you eventually lose sight of
what the big picture was you're now way
down that rabbit hole and you might have
completely Rewritten what was supposed
to be there into something else and now
you got to take a step back and it's
like well now what does it do um how do
we fix this how do we and you're in a
whole different bucket uh of water you
know hot water the other thing
is personally if I like I like playing
video games I like going to the gym I
like reading books listening to audio
books you know working in the art
occasionally if I start finding out that
I'm not doing that as much and I'm stuck
right here in this chair more times than
I like that's another red flag so when I
start seeing those things it's like okay
I need to start getting up I need to go
back to the gym for a little bit I mean
there are times in your life where you
need to walk away and there are times
where yes the appliance is on fire you
have to sit there until it's out or at
least fixed enough that the world isn't
falling apart so personally it's a
balancing act and more times out of not
you miss you see the signs but you miss
that critical Tipping Point where it's
like I really should have walked away a
week ago or yesterday or an hour ago uh
it just start looking at your
conversations the people you're talking
to are you starting to see more problems
in what they're doing are you seeing
more problems in what you're doing like
is the code is the environment are you
like oh I made this change now it's not
working and and you just kind of get in
these cycles of blame you're either
blaming yourself you're blaming the co
code that's another kind of like really
red flag at that point you need to take
a day off or you need to stop and walk
away for a little bit you know these are
just some of the things I run into what
are some of the signs you typically see
Rob as you you know you go through this
as well well it's interesting that you
you know there's two things there that I
wanted to touch on is you you mentioned
guard rails and the other thing is the
you know sometimes it's on fire and you
have to deal with it and I'll go with
that one first is it's
you have to
be cognizant of how often that thing is
on fire a good example was we were
having issues with a customer this is
you know years ago we had issues with
this customer that was like they would
send us stuff and we there was never
really prioritization or anything and so
we really didn't know like it's like you
just got to do everything and it's got
to be done tomorrow kind of thing and it
just we we said hey we've got to like
back off we have to pace ourselves we
can't just you know you can't work 24/7
and just every time there's something
it's critical and you got to go fix it
it's not life or death and so we said
hey we're going to have a list of issues
they're all there and then we need you
to help us out and help us prioritize
you know what are we going to what needs
to be done like what's immediately
what's critical and what isn't and she
proceeds to set every single thing is
critical and we're like okay we had to
push back we said okay let's walk
through this this thing how critical is
that and it was like you know this thing
is a different color blue than I want or
something say okay it's not that
critical okay well we're going to pull
it off the critical list because we
don't need that we don't need you cannot
run around and saying the world is on
fire and the sky is falling with every
little thing and I know it may feel that
way and it may but that's where we have
to push back sometimes because there are
going to be and we talked about this
actually just before this we got into
this is
there is a perception that our customers
or our boss or people like that will
have because they touch a certain you
know they they work with an application
or software we've built they don't
understand because they just see it it
works or it doesn't just black or white
they don't see the difference between oh
that's a typo that we can fix in two
seconds versus that's a critical system
like that's a architectural flaw that's
got to be Rewritten it's going to take
months and they don't know necessarily
sometimes how important it is and
sometimes we don't which is where we
have to have that conversation is how
critical really is this
thing it's things like if you're
stopping a critical release if you come
into a go or no go go and you're
stopping it because the text on this
alert message is a little
off you may want to rethink that you may
want like is it really that critical
particularly if you could roll that out
and then you could just pick pick it
right back up in the next release cycle
or you know something like that that
doesn't even require a full
release so don't be afraid to push back
in those kinds of situations and as as
Michael said I think one of them is when
you're when you find yourself doing the
same thing over and over and over again
A lot of times it's because you've gone
down a rabbit hole and at some point you
have to look at it and say wait a minute
I I need to reset because I'm chasing
this thing and I'm not I'm chasing
symptoms I'm not actually going after
the core problem and
that's that's very critical and I'll
toss it back to you but first I want to
talk a little bit about the guard
rails it helps a lot to use your
calendar to your advantage schedule like
regular workouts schedule time you know
downtime and it could be at the
beginning or the end of your day uh it
can also be stuff like have a day that's
you know either depending on what your
schedule is and things you do either
have like your weekends are always
booked as far as anybody's concerned so
that you can go do stuff or maybe it's
just you know your Saturdays or your
Sundays or your you know your Thursday
nights or whatever a guy I worked with
years ago that was a total workaholic
still had you know 5:00 P PM Sunday
until he went to bed was family time
that was you know that was the key as he
was like I'm going to that is time that
I'm not going to give up to anybody else
and he stuck with it and it's it's hard
not to respect that when you're say it's
a five-day work week if you're already
demanding stuff of them on Saturday and
Sunday morning you can take a couple
hours off and so don't be afraid to to
push back on that a little bit and the
reality that we can't work 7 247 that we
do need downtime that we do need time to
to be able to even to like you know
assess what we're working on and to
Think Through the problems and it can't
just be firefighting all the time
thoughts on
those yeah I like the counter idea but
unfortunately in this day and age
calendars can be overused or ignored
it's just another you know another tool
in our Arsenal that it it's could
potentially be another notification
overload where if you're already burned
out that's just one more thing to add to
it so if you do go that route recommend
definitely look at using additional
tools with that that we've talked about
before like maybe putting your phone on
Focus or turning other things off so
that while you're in that period you're
not getting you're not still getting
bombarded by other avenues by other uh
externals um Avenues the other thing
that was kind of interesting there is
you talked about you know going down the
rabbit hole um is seeing the big
picture sometimes and it's interesting
cuz you and I have both worked together
on multiple projects and for similar
bosses in the
past we have had cases where it's not
even just that the manager knows about
coding they actually know the code they
may have been people that have written
the code in the past so in their mind
they see what this how the code is or
conceptionally was not necessarily where
it is today and as they start giving out
requirements you start getting things
that might mismatch so as you get into
the code and you start making these
changes you get into that cycle of it's
broken it's broken it's broken or they
don't give you all the requirements I I
love this one you touched on this uh
briefly before we jumped into the
podcast side where you know you get into
writing the code you're getting ready to
deliver you've gone through the
so-called test period uat with the users
and you find out there's more
requirements that weren't
talked about so now here you are rushing
to get maybe some critical pieces in
before you can even go
live and that is you know that can occur
with this and but these are things that
you just have to kind of be careful of
and be mindful of because the big thing
is as you go through this journey it is
a journey you will have ups and downs
it's a matter
of kind of figuring out that Tipping
Point when you're starting to slide too
far down to pull yourself back up and
that could be pivoting to reading books
playing video games writing something
else maybe teaching just do something
else maybe go for a walk but just find
the time to recognize I need to take a
pause you know we talked about the
promotive U I can never say that right
Pomodoro folks
pomodoro this is a running joke we have
but um but use tools like that to help
you reset especially when you start
feeling that you're in those
Cycles yeah and I think I think a good
example uh that we've got we do have
people that can you know can point to us
and and we've got uh our bosses our
co-workers and things like that that can
help us out a little bit and and help us
know when we've like you know crossed
lines and stuff a good example of things
that we need to
be uh cognizant of I guess as we sort of
wrap this one up is when people are
trying to reach out and help us out a
perfect example was last night I had
spent I'd been heads down all day and it
was sort of funny because my wife was
like Hey we're gonna have a date night
we're just going to go have some drinks
and play pool and I was like that sounds
great two hours later I was still heads
down and I was because I was going to
make dinner and I was like okay now
we're going to have dinner because I
didn't even get dinner made but it was
was one of those when I like I got up
off out of my desk and I was like we
need to go and she like and she could
tell it's like I need to go now I need
to get away from my desk I need to get
away from the work I need to go away and
it's it it didn't really impact like the
stuff I wanted to do yes I was a little
bit in the zone and I but I went away
had a couple drinks played pool took a
big long nap woke up in the middle of
night basically ready to work again and
then and dove into it for a while it's
like and I'm old I'm not a young person
I'm not like 20 years old where you do
this all the time some of you can and
when I was that young I could so don't
be afraid to just like sometimes pull
yourself out
particularly when you're working long
hours and you've got stuff that are
natural rhythms whether it's taking a
lunch break or it's time for dinner or
time to go to bed or have a weekend or
something like that is is finding way to
take advantage of those because yes we
overdo those all the time and we want to
show off how awesome we are that we
didn't you know we didn't sleep for
three weeks and we got that project done
but it is not the way to go the way to
go however is to give us feedback on
this is to provide us comments to send
us emails let us know what you think let
us know the topics that you like if you
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you can shoot us an email at info@
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Value and where we can give you more
because we are here not only for us but
also for you that being said we are
still going to be here we're not done
this is not our last episode not even
the one of the season so we're going to
come back and continue talking about the
developer
Journey as always though go out there
and have yourself a great day a great
week and we will talk to you next
time bonus
material yeah the I guess one other
thing to consider that we didn't touch
on
is sometimes it's okay to just pause if
you spend more like if you have a Tas
that you think should take an hour and
you're into your second hour walk away
go take 15 minute break 20 minute break
walk away come back spend about 15 more
minutes on it if you're still getting
nowhere time to ask for help go out talk
to your boss talk to your co-workers
talk to the project manager see if maybe
revisiting what the requirements are
what this problem is might not jog
something or even give you a different
perspective on what it is that you're
trying to do sometimes that little pivot
is enough to be like ah okay I'm
unblocked and you're smooth sailing
again you're out of that downward cycle
I would add to that um in modern days
your favorite search engine whether
that's Google or somebody like that or
chat GPT or something like that because
there's while those things may not be
they may not be specific enough for your
problem it is amazing how many times
I've just done like random Google
searches based on something and it will
it will trigger something where it's
like oh yeah that's what I need to do
it's like you know it's like it is it's
like almost a second set of eyes where
somebody's like hey did you look at that
over there and you're like oh shoot I
missed that because I've been focused
over here it's things like that that it
just it helps you sometimes even if you
just go for a walk and talk to yourself
while you're doing it obviously people
are going to stare at you a little bit
but those kind of things it just helps
to get away for a minute to get so that
you're not like you know you're not so
focused on that and you start getting
the blinders on instead that you open up
and suddenly there are going to be some
opportunities that will will jump out in
front of you opportunities for you guys
are to leave us qu comments questions
all that kind of good feedback stuff we
are always going to provide some almost
always I think we've missed once so
we're almost always going to provide
bonus material for you guys out here in
the YouTube world because that's the you
know the value for Value we give that
you have to look at our face longer than
these other people just get to hear our
awesome voices so go out there and have
yourself a good one and we'll come back
next time around and dive right back
into some bonus material a little pre
pre-show work and then off to that next
podcast episode have yourself a good one
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