📺 Develpreneur YouTube Episode

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Top Essential Habits for Software Developers to Sharpen Skills and Drive Success

2025-07-03 •Youtube

Detailed Notes

Looking to become a more productive, skilled, and successful developer? 🚀 In this episode of Building Better Developers with AI, Rob Broadhead and Michael Meloche break down the Top Essential Habits for Software Developers that help you stay sharp, grow your career, and make an impact in your role.

✅ How AI tools can support your developer habits ✅ Daily routines that improve code quality and efficiency ✅ Time management tips using Pomodoro and task lists ✅ The power of continuous learning for software developers

These practical steps help you sharpen your skills, avoid burnout, and advance in your development career—whether you’re just starting out or looking to level up.

🎧 Listen to more episodes and claim your free developer career guide at https://develpreneur.com/

👉 Like, share, and subscribe for more ways to build better developers with AI!

Transcript Text
[Music]
We're going to Whoa, we just pressed
record in the middle of crazy days up.
Um
so we are back to
uh essential habits for software
developers boosting productivity and
career grow. Wow, this is
there are moments where I look at these
things and I'm like wow that is such a
let me see I'm going to say ask chat GBT
let's see now
provide topics and
focus for this title
essential habits for software developers
boosting productivity and career our
titles are such AI stuff it feels like
that's actually I think at the end of
this this would be a really fun episode
would be to wrap this up even maybe
before the season because there's a lot
of cool stuff we've gotten out of this
season. I'm sorry. Hello for everybody.
I I was reading and not saying hi to
those of you guys that have joined us.
Um
I think it would be really cool to have
an episode. one is I think just an
episode talking about the impact that AI
had on all of our topics is going to be
awesome,
but also I think an episode which I
think we've talked about this before,
but like go back to recognizing AI
because I think that's actually very
important. I was actually I almost
offended a person that we're not going
to name but what happens to be my
project manager because I said there's
an email that she drafted and I was like
I asked I I did you use AI? She said no.
And I said well that's actually pretty
cool because I said there is some
there's there is wording and there's
there's things that felt AI but the uh
the rhythm did not feel AI. So I think
there's some things that we can learn
and I think is very useful to us as
developers
um not only in general but also with the
code to figure out when we're looking at
AI generated code and there's there are
definitely some telltale marks and you
and I you probably know as well because
you've seen some AI generated code
you've used AI generated code I bet um
and you know there's like you get once
you do it you realize okay this is what
it looks like so It's very useful to
know that. It's It's always good to have
that context. Sorry everybody if I went
a little bit off field. No, but that'd
be a good topic to definitely have
because
I do use AI a lot um more for testing
though because
uh well testing and refactoring because
sometimes your code gets nasty and it's
like well how can I clean this up and
you can go too far. You could kind of go
in between and AI is a nasty little
I if you don't play with AI enough and
you just say, "Hey AI, go build me code
or go write me this." You're going to
get crap. Be careful. Uh basically,
buyer beware. Don't just assume it works
out of the box. You need to literally
understand what the hell you're doing.
So, if you want to play with AI, start
playing with AI now. But don't really
start pushing it into your development
environments for at least three months
or even six months.
I will say um use one of the training
there's a bunch of training sites out
there that use AI. Um what's the one I
use? Uh just because they're fun. I'm
gonna go look at them.
Um code signal codes signal.com. Uh
then there's a coty c o d a c y.com I
think is another one. Um they use AI to
generate
training material basically. Um use them
get use them and use AI to answer the
questions. Use like go I highly
recommend download the chat GPT client.
God this is so much bonus information.
So, sorry for everybody, but you limit
the after bonus, but yeah, it's
pre-bonus. Um,
download the chat GPT like desktop
client. It's a little bit faster, a
little bit better.
Use it for a while.
The other thing that I have found very,
very useful,
go out, you can even use AI to do it.
Build a chatbot. build an AI chatbot
and specifically
work with the
uh they call it it's basically it's like
the context or the settings. Um let me
see do they have an actual
I may be getting the name wrong so let
me go look real quick. As he's looking
I'm going to age myself. This is very
similar to the old dragon age for
speaking uh speech to text. Same idea.
You have to train what you're using to
understand what you want. Otherwise, you
might get something that looks right but
is wrong. Okay? It's called the system
prompts. Um, why did I forget that?
Because I've had a couple to drink. Um,
understand how prompts work. Um, what is
useful, what is not, what is uh retained
and what is not. Um, it is very much
like the old Google foo, the ability to
and I like I've mastered Google fu. I
asked Google stuff all the time. It's
why I didn't use AI for the longest time
because I could ask Google all kinds of
crap. I knew how to like leverage all of
its search engine stuff. AI is not much
different. Now, each AI engine is a
little bit different.
know which like pick one, master it,
understand its um the kind of answers
it's going to give you and how to tell
it to give you better answers
and that is going to be invaluable to
your career moving forward. I guarantee
you everybody wants to do AI. I went to
a startup meetup a week or two ago. I
was like a dozen companies like
founders, entrepreneurs that are
starting new companies. 11 out of the 12
had AI as part of it. And every one of
them was it was AI that made a lot of
sense. It's like you of course I'm going
to use AI to do that because it makes it
better.
Spend some time in doing this. Wow, this
is such bonus material. I almost feel
like we should have another uh episode
on it, but
please do so. I think building a chatbot
and give it a why. Don't just build a
chatbot to like do tech support or
something like that. Build a chatbot. I
will I will go ahead because I probably
had too much drink. Probably shouldn't
share all this. I built a chatbot
that was effectively a scraper of sorts
that is going out and using public
information to go find information about
companies because I need contact
information for those that are in the
seauite of these companies. I built this
chatbot. Now it's very valuable to learn
what it will provide you and what it
won't because they will AI will provide
you answers that are actually BS. For
example, I got back LinkedIn links for
contact information for these people.
They are not valid links because AI will
not go search the web or at least chat
GPT will not go search the web. And I
was using the AI the API
the AI API too many A's and I's in
there. Um but I think is it is very
educational. This is a great building
better developers things for you to do.
You can build a chatbot in probably an
hour or less and then go play with it.
That is where you'll become a better
developer. All right, bonus material
done. I did I already spit that out into
there. I want to make sure I did.
Essential habits for software developers
boosting productivity. Okay, go ahead.
Throw my last because we'll skip the
bonus at the end. We'll just do all the
bonus.
That doesn't mean quit before we get to
the end. There may still be bonus. I'm
just saying that's true. We We always
seem to do whatever we want. Um,
with what Rob mentioned, look at free
tools like AWS EC2 instances. these.
There's a lot of cool things out there,
a lot of free things out there for you
to play with cloud-based uh instances
where you can set these up and build
these chat bots live so you can actually
do more things online, bigger, better,
uh however you want to do them. Just
don't necessarily limit yourself if
you're strapped for money to what you
have because if you have a very old
machine, look at grabbing an EC2
instance and throwing it out there and
play with that. That was the only thing
I wanted to throw out there because some
people do have that. I've talked to a
couple people. It's like, I don't have
the money, so I can't play with AI. Yes,
you can. There's a lot of free tools out
there. You just have to tap into that.
I will give you a pro tip.
If you're using I'm sure um
wow, I've got a lot of thoughts on that.
All of the major cloud providers do have
all kinds of programs for nonprofits,
startups,
developers. There's a whole kind of
stuff. So, whatever your situation is,
feel free to spend a little bit of time
searching for
programs, uh,
discounts,
price, all kind pricing strategies,
stuff like that. Based on whatever your
business is, you may find something
that's really useful.
The other thing is AWS in particular. I
love ad AWS.
Okay. Yeah, I love AWS.
Sorry. Um, you guys may know because I
did a whole season on their services.
I've been very happy with it. Used it
for a long time.
They have reserved instances.
Whatever server you think you need or
that you need, you can get a reserved
instance and it cuts the cost by like
50% or more. It doesn't Yes. you're
committing to paying for it for like a
year or something like that. But
if you're a developer, it's not a bad
thing. If you'd like more information,
shoot me a just hit me up at info at
developer.com. I would love to like
point you to some stuff, give you some
information I found, customers I've
dealt with over the years. Um, because
we do help people like reduce costs and
things like that. And there are very
good cost-effective programs out there.
There's always the free tier.
Amazon have it has it. Uh GCP has
uh I think it's like I don't know what
it's up to now. I think it's like $300
of just like a bucket of free credits
when you first start. So there are
options out there depending on which one
you want to learn how to use. Honestly,
I I love AWS, but that doesn't mean that
I like Azure is really awesome as well.
GCP, I don't know you so well, but
that's okay. What I've dealt with it,
GCP is really cool as well. Um,
whatever is your, you know, whatever is
your brothers, as they say, go do it.
you can probably find a lower co a low
enough cost solution that unless you're
like scrambling to actually put food on
your table with a I mean I've done this
with a 10 $50 $100 a month budget.
I don't know where you're at, but you
can find things to do that. All right,
enough of that.
Did you have one more? No. Good. Because
I wasn't going to let you talk anyways.
Raspberry Pi.
All right. This is what happens when we
were on our second episode and we have
All right.
What are you drinking? Bourbon and Coke.
What's your bourbon? Uh uh Jim Beam. Uh
yeah, Jim Be uh yeah, Jim Beam Black.
Okay. So, Jim Beam, if you ever want to
uh like, you know, help us out, we're
out here. A little sponsorship wouldn't
hurt. Um,
if I can get
it doesn't want to like grab my bottle.
Put it closer in front of you. Maybe if
you put it in front of you. And maybe
that's what it is. It's like There you
go.
Uncle nearest my favorite. Uh, nearest
green. Uncle nearest rye is what I am
drinking right now. And obviously it's
towards the end of a bottle, but that's
how that works. That's not going to
help.
Oh, no. has to have a backing.
Um,
just doing that straight. There you go.
There we go. Jim Beam, Uncle Nearest, if
you'd like to sponsor a podcast, we are
here. Actually, it's not even a podcast
at this point. A YouTube channel, we
would be happy to do so. Building better
developers with alcohol. Hey, I'm sorry.
If you're under 21,
please don't drink. All right, I have to
uh make this one not child friendly.
We really we have to work on that. We've
used language that we shouldn't use as
well. Things like code testing
bugs. All right, I'm sorry.
Anyways, back to the episode with a
three, a two, and a one. Hello and
welcome back. We are here building
better developers with AI. We are
spending this season taking a prior
season and we are basically pushing our
prior episode topics through AI and
seeing what comes out. So far it's been
really good. I don't want to spoil
what's coming ahead. So first I will
introduce myself. My name is Rob
Broadhead. Happen to be one of the
founders of developer building better
developers.
I am also a founder of RB Consulting
where we help you wrangle technology. If
you have that technology sprawl that
everybody is like starting to get used
to, you have that technology junk drawer
that needs to be cleaned up, we sit down
with you, we talk about your business,
not your technology, but your business.
What is it that you are trying to do?
What is your why? What is your secret
sauce? We craft a special recipe just
for you.
take that technology and the technology
that's out there because sometimes you
don't even know what's available but we
do because we've spent decades over
three even though we're so young over
three decades in technology learning how
it works learning what's out there
learning what works for our customers
whether they're big or small and then we
help you craft a roadmap going forward
we can hand that off to you and you guys
can go forward or we can help you
implement it whether it's building a
team, adding technology, RFPs, you name
it. We start with that technology
assessment and then we go from there
based on what you are served best by.
Good thing, bad thing for this week,
uh, good thing is sunshine. I love
sunshine. I left the north of the US,
Chicago. I'm not going to name names,
but I just did. uh because it's too cold
and too dark for like eight months out
of the year and I came to a sunnier part
of the world. Love it. Great. I feel
better. I'm getting my vitamin C, D,
whatever. All E, F, Z, all of those.
Yes, I'm not a biology major, but
getting all that good stuff out of the
sunshine, it makes me happy, brings me
joy.
The bad thing is it is freaking hot out
there and I'm one of these people that
if you put put me in a room that's hot
like 75 or 76° I will sweat. You put me
in 90 to 95 degrees in like you know and
a 99% humidity it drives me nuts. I am
like dripping water and that is the bad
thing right now. But you know what? I
will take it because it is actually
pretty nice. Also, what I will take
because he drives me nuts, but he's not
that bad a guy is Michael. So, go ahead
and introduce yourself. Hey everyone, my
name is Michael Malashsh. I'm one of the
co-founders of developer building better
developers. I'm also the founder of
Envision QA where if you're a passionate
entrepreneur or business looking for
help with software solutions, we
recognize your desire for a reliable,
high-erforming solution that sets you
apart from the competitors. We offer
tailored software and quality assurance
solutions to optimize the performance
and reliability of your e-commerce
platform, pitcher flawless user
experience, increase sales, and a
competitive edge in the market. Now,
it's hard going after RAW because a lot
of times I just want to say ditto, but
anyway, good and bad. Good and bad this
week. the good uh couple weeks ago there
was a lot of like uh good previews
online for upcoming software releases,
video games, things of that nature. Bad.
I have no time to play any of them. It's
like there's so many cool things coming
out. It's like, "Oh, I want to play
that. I want to play that. I want to
play that. I want to play it." I'm like,
"I don't have time. What the hell am I
thinking?" So, it's like, "Okay, which
one of the three and when are they
coming out?" It's like, "Cool. This
year, my wife might actually have a
chance to buy me a Christmas present
because I will not have a chance to buy
it for myself before the end of the
year, unless it happens to be a Switch
if I can happen to find one between now
and then because I doubt she will. Back
to you.
U switch two,
I'll geek out for a second. Switch to my
list. I'm going to get one for my wife
first because she has zero switches,
which is probably why she's such a sad
individual. If she had just one, she
would be a happier person,
but I'm going to go ahead as soon as I
can get her one. Yes. Smack upside the
head. Um,
try to get her one if I can.
She's choking me now. Segue there. Don't
buy used. Oh, definitely. I know
apparently has bricked those, so be
careful with that. Yeah, they've they've
taken a very That's a whole another
topic, a whole another world. Maybe
we'll talk about that like in
Thanksgiving or Christmas episodes. Um
Nintendo took a really interesting uh
stance on the Switch 2 uh release, which
has been very interesting. Um anyways,
would love to get one get one for my
wife first. I am just waiting for
I know I'm probably the only person that
does this, but Oblivion the like new
release on the Steam Deck is still
driving me nuts. Sometimes it crashes
sometimes. Like as soon as I do a quick
travel to somewhere, it's like no,
you're not going to do that. And the
heat that pours off of that is
phenomenal. Okay, geek mode off. Let's
get back to our topic for this episode
because
we need to actually get back to building
better developers and not gamers. Okay,
so this episode I asked him
what about essential habits for software
developers boosting productivity and
career growth and of course because GPT
loves me chat GPT said great choice for
your developer podcast and this is what
it gave me. Okay, first it actually gave
me a core message. I don't think I've
had this one before. Core message.
Success as a developer isn't just about
what you know. It's about what you
consistently do. The right habits
compound over time into productivity,
expertise, and opportunities. Oh my
gosh, that is
so much the message that we have built
for almost a decade now.
the momentum of
sh I want to finish I'm gonna finish my
thought and I'm gonna throw it to you.
So
see I told you we're like an old married
couple.
We talk about momentum. We talk about
the like just do a little bit every day.
That message is so much about
consistently doing every day. And now
I'm going to pass it to my partner who
apparently has something to say about I
was going to have you reiterate that a
little bit slower so that everyone could
hear you because you went through that
very quickly.
Wow. My wife just said, "Okay, I'm just
kidding. Success I'm going to go I'm
going to go very slow
because this is really important.
Success as a developer isn't just about
what you know. It's about what you
consistently
do. The right habits compound over time
into productivity, expertise, and
opportunities.
This is the core of the developure book.
It is about you will stay every day in
your job learning stuff, making
progress. You don't have to spend hours
and hours and hours. Just a little bit
every day moves you forward and
eventually that journey of a thousand
miles when you do it a step at a time
you eventually get there. All right. Now
I'll tack on to that. So building better
habits the core of this.
If you do something for more than 10
days repetitively it becomes a habit. If
you do well are you kicking your head
now? But I find that if you force
yourself to do a task daily for at least
10 days almost a week and a half it
generally you will pick it up and it
becomes a habit. There's good and bad to
that. You can pick up bad habits during
that while you're trying to do a good
habit you could pick up a bad habit. So
habits
are habitual but be by the nature of
habit. But
one of the things that I'm very
conscious of and I've talked about this
a lot is make sure you make lists. Write
down Whoops. Write down what it is you
want to do in a day. Get it done. If
you're not getting it done, you have a
bad habit. You have a habit of saying
I'm going to do this and not do it. The
question is why? You need to ask
yourself, why are you not doing it? Are
you not doing it? Because what you're
writing on your little notepad, your
little sheet here, is not what's
important. Are you putting
are you putting being are you putting
busy tasks ahead of important tasks?
And that is the key distinction here.
Make sure that what you're working on,
what habits you want to build are
focused on the things that keep the dial
moving, that are really what it is you
need to accomplish, not what you need to
do to make it look like you're being
busy and you're accomplishing things.
All right. So, first off, for those of
you that are watching the YouTube
channel, you saw me going, "No, it's not
10 days. It's actually I've heard it's
21 days." And then I've heard speakers
that are habit experts that say it's
actually more than that.
I the key
is and I can't remember who s told me
this or didn't tell me this specifically
but I heard a speaker that they said the
key is not that you miss a day, it's
that you don't miss two days in a row.
And I I want to say it's the Atomic
Habits guy. I'm not sure who it is, but
that's the key is to build momentum. If
you miss a day, it's not going to kill
you. If you miss two days in a row, you
will lose momentum.
That is the key. I'm going to jump ahead
to a couple, but I do want to come back
to this because I think this is so so
important. So the first thing it
suggested we didn't even get to the
first topic was daily coding discipline
habit write or review code every day
even for 30 minutes why it matters keeps
skills sharp builds muscle memory
reduces mental cold starts how to do it
many challenges open source
contributions or small side project
sprints pro trip uh track coding streaks
or use a developer journal to stay
consistent
This
is so much I will give you a second.
This is so much what we preach. This is
why we do the 15 minutes of learning and
stuff like that that we do.
This is something that has
has been such an incredible benefit to
me in particular as a developer. I'm
going to throw this out and I'm going to
let Michael actually talk because I've
been cutting him off for so long. Um,
this is so important to do with the
technologies that you're not actually
working on. So, if you are sitting in a
Java developer job, but you want to keep
your Python skills sharp, have a side
project that is Python development. Or
likewise, if you are in a C sharp job
and you don't want to lose your job,
your your C will be kept sharp for no
pun intended through your day job, but
you need to make sure that you're still
keeping current. And it's not even
current, but just not letting Rust build
on the Java side of it. And I'm going to
go ahead and throw it right to you. All
right.
Plain and simple. You're a developer.
There are code repositories. At the end
of the day, whatever you're working on,
you need to commit to your code
repository. Take five minutes, go look
at GitHub, whatever. Create a temporary
PR. I don't care. Go look and see what
you did for the day in your code and
does it make sense? If it doesn't make
sense, two things need to happen. One,
you need to quickly fix it. Or two, you
need to document your code quickly so
that when you push it back up, you know
what you did. Because if you're looking
at that co PR or that code review and
you immediately cannot understand what
the hell you did, you have a problem.
And that is the first thing that jumped
in my mind when you brought this up. So
I was like, I wanted to jump the gun.
That is a mega bonus because that
actually is not in our book. That is a
very very useful tip to have.
If you don't re like we've never I don't
know that we've ever talked about
reviewing your own code.
This is
something we have recently. Um I have
never used Sonar Cube before with my git
with GitHub.
I've used it with like you know here and
there and I've used other code uh static
code analysis tools like that but to use
it in a regular basis has actually been
a very informative
process for me because every time I do a
commit and a push it barks at me about
whatever it likes or dislikes and that
forces me to go back and actually review
my own code more often. often that I
would like to admit
that is an incredibly useful habit to
get into is commit your code. Even if
it's your own little repository and side
hustle, PR yourself and then code review
your own code.
Just that extra set of eyes when it's
your own stinking eyes will help
immensely. It is amazing what you will
catch in those kinds of things.
particularly, and this is why I love so
much the static code analysis tools that
are out there, all the way back to uh
some of the like the very high-end tools
that are out there. And I forget the
names off the top of my head. They're
very expensive, but they're very useful
because they will give you feedback.
That is exactly what you need as a
developer because we get into our little
silos. We have our way to solve
problems. We have our way to write code.
We have all of our uh preferences built
out into our IDE.
Use the if you're Python, use the uh the
PEP.
I'm getting choked up. I'm so emotional
about this. Use Pep 8 uh in Java.
Go and use the various Java sites that
are out there. PHP has got its own uh
version. I wish I could think of all of
these that are out there. They're I'm
missing them right now. go to the
standards.
How is the most current version used
being that's out there that's being used
that's being developed? How is that
being written? What are the styles that
are out there? And this includes like
naming standards and stuff like that.
Go look at those because they will make
you a better developer. I'm going to
move on. We have time for one. Wait, I'm
not gonna move on because Michael has
something to say. I think we have time
for one more topic. We do.
All right. What's the next bullet point?
Yes, we've gone too far. Effective time
management. This is so a and Michael
doesn't know. I'm just going to let you
know. He did not know that. That is the
next bullet point. Effective time
management habit. Use time blocks or
pomodoro. Oh, I love this. to avoid
burnout and context switching tools.
calendar blocking toggle to o gg l
notion or visual studio code timers
side hustle angle maximize limited hours
protect your maker time uh discussion
prompt when are you most productive and
how do you defend that time I am going
to use this before I toss it back to
Michael to say that I still I have
adjusted if you if you go back to last
season you will hear how much I loved
the pomodora stuff it was because of the
place I was in workwise at that mo
moment. But I still I use a very
different Pomodoro technique. I use a uh
a focus app which I'm going to look up
right now called Brain FM. Brain.fm.
There's other ones like that. It's got a
lot of different settings essentially,
but it is just it is music that is it is
sound and music that is intended on like
enhancing certain mental aspects.
I use that on a regular basis as my
pomodoro basically and I have grown. I
use a 1 hour 60inute pomodoro on a
regular basis and it has been very very
effective. But now I own my time more
than I did before. before that 25
minutes is what I needed because I
needed to actually do like a little bit
of everything. I have uh I have less
chunks right now and so it works very
well to do a one hour. I am literally
exhausted in a mental sense by the time
I'm done with the one hour and I get so
much accomplished. So, I I I'm sorry
that I keep singing the praises of that
technique, but it really is if you can
sit down and focus for a set number of
minutes. I don't care if it's 25, 45,
60, 90, whatever your focus is, you will
be amazed at how productive you will
get. Now, I'm going to pass it on to
somebody that has always struggled with
saying that word, but that's okay. He's
gonna work on his Italian. Go for it,
Michael. All right, I'm not even going
to say it.
That is a safe approach. Um,
my biggest problem with this is in a lot
of companies I've worked for or in a lot
of situations, they do not foster the
culture or the environment for you to
thrive in the Pomodoro technique to
actually do what Rob is suggesting.
which is why I've gone with the list
approach where I write down what I need
to get done in the day and I try to
stick to it. Project management tools
are great for this, Jiren, Trello,
things like that. But the problem you
run into with those is still you get
scope creep. You need to commit to
something say I'm going to get this
done. If you don't get it done, make a
note as to why. Was it because you ran
into scope creep? Is it because oh this
problem you're trying to solve is bigger
than it is. This is a big problem in
software development.
If you work on a ticket and you pointed
it as a team as a one because it looked
simple but you get into it and it starts
blowing up you need to bring that to
everyone's attention. So, the next
standup you have, comment the ticket.
Say, "Hey, I've uncovered this."
Document what you found and then bring
it up. Do not try to bring it up without
documenting it because if you sleep on
it, you're going to forget about it and
the next day you're going to be like, "I
have no idea." Um,
just be clear and concise and document,
document, document.
Keep in mind the cover your ass CYA
approach to everything.
Even if you're on the pomodoro
technique,
make sure that what you're working on is
what you're working on. And if it starts
bloating or expanding, bring that up
immediately. That means that what you're
focused on is not focused enough and you
may need some additional direction to
make sure you get to where you need to
be to get it completed.
Gosh, that is is rare that I say that,
but that is really in an incred No, I'm
kidding. That was that is an incredible
point to make.
Part of what I find so much valuable
with the Pomodoro technique, and I will
note that Michael said it correctly,
didn't stumble over it, and he's been
drinking. Um,
if you're on the podcast, no, he hasn't.
Um, go check the YouTube channel. Um,
it is very useful to have that pomodoro
because it really does time box stuff
and I think that is what as I have
expanded the pomodoro length that I use,
it has been really helpful with me and
helping me understand even more my
estimates for work. Because honestly,
most of what I do, I think I can cover
in a 1-hour pomodoro.
If I get to the end of it, whatever my
point is basic, well, my points, this is
like a little secret behind the thing.
My points when I'm doing um scrum
pointing and stuff like that,
it's basically the number of pomodoros
it's going to take me to get that thing
done. And if I take like if I if I point
it as one and it takes me more than one
pomodoro to get it done, then I note
that. And Michael has really nailed what
we need to do as developers. Whether you
do it, however you do it, you need to
document. You need to know
where you misestimated it. It's not
necessarily where it was misestimated by
somebody else because you can only
control what you estimate and what your
abilities are, but this is what will
help you become a better estimator. If
you understand that
this took longer than I expected, and of
course with your team, if it impacts
them, you need to let them know. Say,
"Hey, this took longer than I expected."
Like, throw that out there. That helps
you. that helps the team. This there are
so many levels of value that that brings
to you. Now, I'm going to move on
because I want to at least jump into one
other and I have no idea how long we've
gone because I apologize. I didn't look
at the time before we started this one.
We are too long. But I'm going to jump
into this real quick and then I'm going
to wrap this one up. Continuous
learning. I love this even before I read
it. Habit. Read or watch something
technical weekly book, document, blog,
YouTube or podcast.
Hey. Hey. Um, growth edge. Stay current
with frameworks, languages, and soft
skills. My gosh, this is the bulk of
what our book is. Career boost. Learning
equals leverage. It's how you move from
junior to lead. The best way to move
from junior to lead is to read our
freaking book and listen to our podcast
on a regular basis because this is what
we live and we are there with you. I
will throw out hey brain FM if you need
a sponsorship. Give us a call. We would
love to talk to you. Love your app.
Would love to like boost you guys on a
regular basis.
As always shoot us an email at
[email protected].
I will even offer you right now. You
shoot me an email in uh it is the end of
June. You send me an email by the end of
July. Me being [email protected]
I will send you a copy of our book.
Gratus free all of those other word
libé. Uh I don't even know if that's
actually the word that I'm trying to
think of but we will give it to you
free. We'll shoot you one. just give us
your email address or actually your
physical mailing address um or your
email address. We'll shoot you the
digital copy. I I would love to offer
that for now because
it is really got a lot of the stuff that
we've talked about. I think it's very
valuable particularly if you're trying
to figure out how do you map out your
career? Maybe you've topped out, maybe
you plateaued, maybe you're struggling
to figure out where you go from here. It
is actually a very useful book. If you
don't think so, I would love to get that
feedback because we'll do a version two
and we will do a better version of it.
As always, we have Facebook uh we have
developer.com developer Facebook page
developer.com if you want to leave us
feedback. Uh developer on X, you know,
used to be Twitter. I think we've
finally gotten so we can just call it X.
Thank you Elon Musk for that to get a
year later or whatever it is. Uh also
developer.com we have a contact us form.
Every single article, every podcast,
there's ways to leave us feedback. We
will get it. We would love to hear it.
We would love to make this better
because we are also building a better
podcast for you, not for ourselves.
Thank you so much. Thank you for your
time. As always, go out there and have
yourself a great day, a great week, and
we will talk to you next time.
Bonus material. Go watch the pre-show
cuz there was a whole lot before the
show. Uh, just one last thing,
check out the website, check out our
podcast, check out YouTube if you're,
you know, if you're watching us, great.
Um, seriously,
thank you for being a follower of us.
Like, share, repeat, and give us your
feedback. Have a great day. I will say
as bonus material, this is like behind
the scenes. Apparently, there is behind
the scenes a I guess it's a slack
message. Yes, a slack message of get him
food. So, apparently I've had too much
fun this episode.
I I actually don't apologize because you
know sometimes we got to have fun. This
is like episode Do you even know what
episode this is? Is like eight nine.
Nine. We're on nine. No. Overall like
800 900. What? Yeah. Give me 10 seconds.
Uh pull that up. Pull that up. You are
on
[Music]
884.
Oh my gosh. This is 884
episodes that we have done. So, for me
to have a little bit of fun, we're
crazy. Yeah.
And I say that this is bonus material. I
will once again I will hang my hat on.
If you have not gone through the
interview season like it's like now
about three or four seasons back it's
like 20 21 something like that. Uh it
was 90 something episode. It was a lot
of episodes. The first couple of
interviews were okay but by the time we
got even like the fifth to 10th episode
there are some of the most fascinating
people I have ever met that we got to
interview. I had so much fun. I hate
that I stopped recording so many times
before the end of like the conversation.
I had great conversations. Uh Greg and I
wish I could think of his name that was
a piano player that had was worried
about losing his voice. I hope it's
Greg. Um
incredible conversation there. The guy
that worked with the Blue Man Group that
is out with uh working with Google right
now. Awesome. Incredible conversations
and those are just pieces of it. Well, I
was gonna say and if a lot of these
podcasts aren't still out there cuz some
of the platforms cut them off after a
certain level of episodes, let us know.
We have a lot of these archived, not
necessarily all of them. We have most of
them. So, if you want to follow up on an
old episode, let us know. We'll send it
to you. We will do that. And also I
think the developer.com site I think has
every single episode in some way form or
fashion. We'll we'll find out because if
you define one that is not pointing to
an episode let us know because we will
go like connect you know we'll correct
that link and things like that. Um
obviously 800 plus episodes in the first
100 so episodes may not be as good. This
is speaking as a guy that created like
directed, exe, you know, director,
producer, all of that, edited. Yes, it's
gotten better. Um, I go back to the
interview episodes to me still the
pinnacle of some of what we did. No
offense to Michael. We've actually had
some really good uh you know the last
couple seasons have had a lot of really
good episodes, a lot of really good
content, but the stuff we got in the
interviews
I that is topnotch. I cannot I cannot
even, you know, say enough good stuff
about it. So that's your bonus. I mean,
we're still going to do interviews. I
mean, we're still going to do
interviews. Don't don't throw that out.
I mean, it may be with you. You right
there, you might be the next one we
interview. Um, yes, we still have those
on there. It may even be her back there
that's in the like, you know, back in
the, you know, the crowd that's yelling,
"Hey."
Um,
the peanut gallery is full of people
that want to be part of our interview
guests. Um, I I will I will be honest to
all you guys because you guys are, you
know, me familia, you guys are like
right there, Minte.
Um,
I love doing interviews. If you want to
do an interview and you're not the most
boring person in the world, and yes, I
have interviewed like two or three of
those people. But for the most part, I
think I literally have one interview
that never actually went to production.
It was that bad. Uh, but
that being said, I would love to talk to
you and I have confidence that we will
make an interesting conversation out of
that. Um, I would love to talk to you.
Shoot us a, as always, shoot us an email
[email protected].
Uh, let us know. We would love to talk
to you. Uh, Michael and I have not done
the dual host interview thing. It is on
our list of things to do. I have people
that I want to talk to. he has people he
wants to talk to. At some point, we'll
do this. If it if it interrupts the AI
uh season, I apologize so much. Um, that
being said, I apparently have had more
to drink and not enough to eat right
now. And, uh, that's that behind the
scenes stuff you get as part of the
YouTube. Michael's doing the cut cut.
We'll fix it. We'll fix it in editing.
You guys have had more bonus than you
wanted at this point. Thank you always.
I really do appreciate you. What was it?
892.
Uh we're 800 plus. I mean, we're well uh
884.
884 is a lot of episodes. I will say
100.
One of my
favorites, Gary Vaynerchuk, did 1,000
and he quit. And I almost cried during
that last week of uh Wine Library TV
when he got to the thousand part because
we knew we the crowd knew it was coming.
Um I don't know that we're going to do
that in a thousand, but
hundreds is a lot. And you guys are
there. I'm sure there's at least one of
you. There probably only one of you
that's been here from the start and
that's actually me. But hey, um thank
you so much for your time. We really do
appreciate what you've invested in us.
We would love to invest back into you.
Let us know any way that we can do so
that we can help you out uh or that we
can improve our content. We're always
we're always looking for ways as well.
Always looking for ways to build a
better podcast as well as building
better developers ourselves and use.
Thank you. So use thank you so much.
Have a great evening. Have a great week.
And we will talk to you next time.
[Music]
Transcript Segments
1.35

[Music]

27.519

We're going to Whoa, we just pressed

29.359

record in the middle of crazy days up.

33.36

Um

35.36

so we are back to

38.559

uh essential habits for software

42.079

developers boosting productivity and

44.239

career grow. Wow, this is

47.12

there are moments where I look at these

48.8

things and I'm like wow that is such a

51.52

let me see I'm going to say ask chat GBT

54.32

let's see now

56.32

provide topics and

60.32

focus for this title

64.479

essential habits for software developers

66.64

boosting productivity and career our

68.32

titles are such AI stuff it feels like

71.76

that's actually I think at the end of

73.119

this this would be a really fun episode

75.439

would be to wrap this up even maybe

79.36

before the season because there's a lot

81.2

of cool stuff we've gotten out of this

82.479

season. I'm sorry. Hello for everybody.

84.72

I I was reading and not saying hi to

88.08

those of you guys that have joined us.

89.439

Um

92.079

I think it would be really cool to have

93.6

an episode. one is I think just an

96.159

episode talking about the impact that AI

98.24

had on all of our topics is going to be

100.64

awesome,

103.119

but also I think an episode which I

105.759

think we've talked about this before,

106.799

but like go back to recognizing AI

110.479

because I think that's actually very

112.32

important. I was actually I almost

114.399

offended a person that we're not going

116.64

to name but what happens to be my

118.159

project manager because I said there's

120.159

an email that she drafted and I was like

121.84

I asked I I did you use AI? She said no.

125.92

And I said well that's actually pretty

127.2

cool because I said there is some

129.759

there's there is wording and there's

132.64

there's things that felt AI but the uh

135.92

the rhythm did not feel AI. So I think

138.319

there's some things that we can learn

140.16

and I think is very useful to us as

142.239

developers

144.239

um not only in general but also with the

147.599

code to figure out when we're looking at

150.239

AI generated code and there's there are

153.04

definitely some telltale marks and you

154.8

and I you probably know as well because

156.72

you've seen some AI generated code

158.4

you've used AI generated code I bet um

161.36

and you know there's like you get once

163.599

you do it you realize okay this is what

165.92

it looks like so It's very useful to

168.4

know that. It's It's always good to have

170.16

that context. Sorry everybody if I went

172.4

a little bit off field. No, but that'd

173.68

be a good topic to definitely have

175.36

because

177.44

I do use AI a lot um more for testing

183.28

though because

185.04

uh well testing and refactoring because

187.12

sometimes your code gets nasty and it's

189.04

like well how can I clean this up and

191.04

you can go too far. You could kind of go

193.2

in between and AI is a nasty little

197.76

I if you don't play with AI enough and

199.92

you just say, "Hey AI, go build me code

201.84

or go write me this." You're going to

203.44

get crap. Be careful. Uh basically,

207.04

buyer beware. Don't just assume it works

211.04

out of the box. You need to literally

213.84

understand what the hell you're doing.

215.599

So, if you want to play with AI, start

218.4

playing with AI now. But don't really

220.72

start pushing it into your development

222.4

environments for at least three months

224.4

or even six months.

228.159

I will say um use one of the training

232.72

there's a bunch of training sites out

234.4

there that use AI. Um what's the one I

237.439

use? Uh just because they're fun. I'm

240.72

gonna go look at them.

243.76

Um code signal codes signal.com. Uh

250.239

then there's a coty c o d a c y.com I

254.08

think is another one. Um they use AI to

258

generate

259.919

training material basically. Um use them

265.28

get use them and use AI to answer the

269.04

questions. Use like go I highly

272.4

recommend download the chat GPT client.

275.04

God this is so much bonus information.

276.72

So, sorry for everybody, but you limit

279.12

the after bonus, but yeah, it's

282.639

pre-bonus. Um,

285.919

download the chat GPT like desktop

288.24

client. It's a little bit faster, a

290.479

little bit better.

292.8

Use it for a while.

295.52

The other thing that I have found very,

297.919

very useful,

300.24

go out, you can even use AI to do it.

303.44

Build a chatbot. build an AI chatbot

307.919

and specifically

310.88

work with the

313.6

uh they call it it's basically it's like

315.039

the context or the settings. Um let me

318.479

see do they have an actual

320.96

I may be getting the name wrong so let

322.639

me go look real quick. As he's looking

324.479

I'm going to age myself. This is very

326.479

similar to the old dragon age for

328.72

speaking uh speech to text. Same idea.

333.6

You have to train what you're using to

336.24

understand what you want. Otherwise, you

339.039

might get something that looks right but

341.28

is wrong. Okay? It's called the system

343.68

prompts. Um, why did I forget that?

346.639

Because I've had a couple to drink. Um,

351.68

understand how prompts work. Um, what is

356.639

useful, what is not, what is uh retained

359.84

and what is not. Um, it is very much

363.52

like the old Google foo, the ability to

366.639

and I like I've mastered Google fu. I

369.12

asked Google stuff all the time. It's

370.88

why I didn't use AI for the longest time

372.479

because I could ask Google all kinds of

374.24

crap. I knew how to like leverage all of

377.28

its search engine stuff. AI is not much

380.88

different. Now, each AI engine is a

383.919

little bit different.

386.16

know which like pick one, master it,

390.4

understand its um the kind of answers

393.919

it's going to give you and how to tell

396.319

it to give you better answers

399.36

and that is going to be invaluable to

402.639

your career moving forward. I guarantee

404.639

you everybody wants to do AI. I went to

407.52

a startup meetup a week or two ago. I

411.6

was like a dozen companies like

413.68

founders, entrepreneurs that are

416.24

starting new companies. 11 out of the 12

419.36

had AI as part of it. And every one of

422.639

them was it was AI that made a lot of

425.36

sense. It's like you of course I'm going

426.88

to use AI to do that because it makes it

428.8

better.

430.319

Spend some time in doing this. Wow, this

432.24

is such bonus material. I almost feel

433.84

like we should have another uh episode

435.68

on it, but

437.599

please do so. I think building a chatbot

441.599

and give it a why. Don't just build a

444.639

chatbot to like do tech support or

447.52

something like that. Build a chatbot. I

449.199

will I will go ahead because I probably

452

had too much drink. Probably shouldn't

453.12

share all this. I built a chatbot

456.4

that was effectively a scraper of sorts

460

that is going out and using public

461.919

information to go find information about

464.72

companies because I need contact

466.639

information for those that are in the

468.56

seauite of these companies. I built this

471.12

chatbot. Now it's very valuable to learn

474.639

what it will provide you and what it

476.479

won't because they will AI will provide

479.759

you answers that are actually BS. For

483.28

example, I got back LinkedIn links for

486.319

contact information for these people.

488.56

They are not valid links because AI will

491.28

not go search the web or at least chat

493.599

GPT will not go search the web. And I

496.479

was using the AI the API

499.36

the AI API too many A's and I's in

502.24

there. Um but I think is it is very

505.68

educational. This is a great building

508.8

better developers things for you to do.

511.039

You can build a chatbot in probably an

514.159

hour or less and then go play with it.

517.839

That is where you'll become a better

519.839

developer. All right, bonus material

522.479

done. I did I already spit that out into

526.16

there. I want to make sure I did.

528.8

Essential habits for software developers

530.64

boosting productivity. Okay, go ahead.

533.6

Throw my last because we'll skip the

534.959

bonus at the end. We'll just do all the

536.24

bonus.

538.8

That doesn't mean quit before we get to

540.8

the end. There may still be bonus. I'm

542.88

just saying that's true. We We always

544.72

seem to do whatever we want. Um,

548.88

with what Rob mentioned, look at free

552.56

tools like AWS EC2 instances. these.

557.68

There's a lot of cool things out there,

559.519

a lot of free things out there for you

560.959

to play with cloud-based uh instances

563.36

where you can set these up and build

565.68

these chat bots live so you can actually

568.32

do more things online, bigger, better,

571.76

uh however you want to do them. Just

573.92

don't necessarily limit yourself if

576

you're strapped for money to what you

577.839

have because if you have a very old

580.56

machine, look at grabbing an EC2

582.959

instance and throwing it out there and

584.16

play with that. That was the only thing

586

I wanted to throw out there because some

588

people do have that. I've talked to a

589.68

couple people. It's like, I don't have

590.88

the money, so I can't play with AI. Yes,

592.64

you can. There's a lot of free tools out

594.959

there. You just have to tap into that.

598.32

I will give you a pro tip.

601.44

If you're using I'm sure um

607.2

wow, I've got a lot of thoughts on that.

610.399

All of the major cloud providers do have

614.8

all kinds of programs for nonprofits,

618.399

startups,

620.399

developers. There's a whole kind of

621.6

stuff. So, whatever your situation is,

625.92

feel free to spend a little bit of time

629.12

searching for

631.519

programs, uh,

634.72

discounts,

636.72

price, all kind pricing strategies,

639.519

stuff like that. Based on whatever your

641.6

business is, you may find something

643.519

that's really useful.

645.76

The other thing is AWS in particular. I

648.48

love ad AWS.

651.12

Okay. Yeah, I love AWS.

654

Sorry. Um, you guys may know because I

656.32

did a whole season on their services.

659.279

I've been very happy with it. Used it

661.2

for a long time.

663.6

They have reserved instances.

667.36

Whatever server you think you need or

671.04

that you need, you can get a reserved

673.519

instance and it cuts the cost by like

676.399

50% or more. It doesn't Yes. you're

680.32

committing to paying for it for like a

682.32

year or something like that. But

685.04

if you're a developer, it's not a bad

687.12

thing. If you'd like more information,

690

shoot me a just hit me up at info at

692.959

developer.com. I would love to like

695.36

point you to some stuff, give you some

697.6

information I found, customers I've

699.519

dealt with over the years. Um, because

701.6

we do help people like reduce costs and

704.079

things like that. And there are very

706.399

good cost-effective programs out there.

708.64

There's always the free tier.

711.44

Amazon have it has it. Uh GCP has

716.079

uh I think it's like I don't know what

717.12

it's up to now. I think it's like $300

719.2

of just like a bucket of free credits

721.12

when you first start. So there are

723.76

options out there depending on which one

725.6

you want to learn how to use. Honestly,

728.8

I I love AWS, but that doesn't mean that

731.76

I like Azure is really awesome as well.

734.88

GCP, I don't know you so well, but

737.36

that's okay. What I've dealt with it,

739.44

GCP is really cool as well. Um,

743.519

whatever is your, you know, whatever is

746.56

your brothers, as they say, go do it.

749.6

you can probably find a lower co a low

751.839

enough cost solution that unless you're

754.72

like scrambling to actually put food on

756.399

your table with a I mean I've done this

759.12

with a 10 $50 $100 a month budget.

764.399

I don't know where you're at, but you

765.68

can find things to do that. All right,

768.32

enough of that.

770.72

Did you have one more? No. Good. Because

773.2

I wasn't going to let you talk anyways.

777.04

Raspberry Pi.

778.959

All right. This is what happens when we

781.2

were on our second episode and we have

784.48

All right.

786.079

What are you drinking? Bourbon and Coke.

789.04

What's your bourbon? Uh uh Jim Beam. Uh

792.16

yeah, Jim Be uh yeah, Jim Beam Black.

794.88

Okay. So, Jim Beam, if you ever want to

796.88

uh like, you know, help us out, we're

799.12

out here. A little sponsorship wouldn't

801.12

hurt. Um,

803.6

if I can get

807.44

it doesn't want to like grab my bottle.

810.079

Put it closer in front of you. Maybe if

812.48

you put it in front of you. And maybe

813.68

that's what it is. It's like There you

816.079

go.

817.92

Uncle nearest my favorite. Uh, nearest

820.32

green. Uncle nearest rye is what I am

822.639

drinking right now. And obviously it's

824.88

towards the end of a bottle, but that's

826.32

how that works. That's not going to

827.6

help.

830

Oh, no. has to have a backing.

832.8

Um,

835.519

just doing that straight. There you go.

837.12

There we go. Jim Beam, Uncle Nearest, if

839.04

you'd like to sponsor a podcast, we are

842.32

here. Actually, it's not even a podcast

844.24

at this point. A YouTube channel, we

846.8

would be happy to do so. Building better

849.36

developers with alcohol. Hey, I'm sorry.

854.079

If you're under 21,

856.8

please don't drink. All right, I have to

858.959

uh make this one not child friendly.

862.48

We really we have to work on that. We've

865.12

used language that we shouldn't use as

866.72

well. Things like code testing

870.8

bugs. All right, I'm sorry.

874.24

Anyways, back to the episode with a

877.36

three, a two, and a one. Hello and

880.399

welcome back. We are here building

883.519

better developers with AI. We are

886.959

spending this season taking a prior

889.04

season and we are basically pushing our

892.399

prior episode topics through AI and

894.959

seeing what comes out. So far it's been

897.279

really good. I don't want to spoil

899.44

what's coming ahead. So first I will

901.839

introduce myself. My name is Rob

903.44

Broadhead. Happen to be one of the

905.12

founders of developer building better

907.36

developers.

908.959

I am also a founder of RB Consulting

911.519

where we help you wrangle technology. If

915.839

you have that technology sprawl that

917.92

everybody is like starting to get used

921.12

to, you have that technology junk drawer

924.079

that needs to be cleaned up, we sit down

926.48

with you, we talk about your business,

928.48

not your technology, but your business.

930.56

What is it that you are trying to do?

932.8

What is your why? What is your secret

934.639

sauce? We craft a special recipe just

937.92

for you.

939.68

take that technology and the technology

941.6

that's out there because sometimes you

943.6

don't even know what's available but we

945.519

do because we've spent decades over

948.399

three even though we're so young over

951.12

three decades in technology learning how

954.24

it works learning what's out there

956

learning what works for our customers

957.6

whether they're big or small and then we

960.079

help you craft a roadmap going forward

963.04

we can hand that off to you and you guys

965.6

can go forward or we can help you

967.12

implement it whether it's building a

969.04

team, adding technology, RFPs, you name

971.759

it. We start with that technology

973.68

assessment and then we go from there

976

based on what you are served best by.

980.24

Good thing, bad thing for this week,

983.279

uh, good thing is sunshine. I love

987.92

sunshine. I left the north of the US,

991.759

Chicago. I'm not going to name names,

993.519

but I just did. uh because it's too cold

995.68

and too dark for like eight months out

997.759

of the year and I came to a sunnier part

1000.32

of the world. Love it. Great. I feel

1004.32

better. I'm getting my vitamin C, D,

1007.44

whatever. All E, F, Z, all of those.

1010.959

Yes, I'm not a biology major, but

1014

getting all that good stuff out of the

1015.44

sunshine, it makes me happy, brings me

1018.48

joy.

1020.24

The bad thing is it is freaking hot out

1024.24

there and I'm one of these people that

1025.839

if you put put me in a room that's hot

1029.12

like 75 or 76° I will sweat. You put me

1033.52

in 90 to 95 degrees in like you know and

1037.839

a 99% humidity it drives me nuts. I am

1042.16

like dripping water and that is the bad

1045.679

thing right now. But you know what? I

1047.12

will take it because it is actually

1049.52

pretty nice. Also, what I will take

1052.799

because he drives me nuts, but he's not

1054.559

that bad a guy is Michael. So, go ahead

1056.559

and introduce yourself. Hey everyone, my

1058.72

name is Michael Malashsh. I'm one of the

1060.08

co-founders of developer building better

1061.919

developers. I'm also the founder of

1063.6

Envision QA where if you're a passionate

1065.919

entrepreneur or business looking for

1067.919

help with software solutions, we

1069.84

recognize your desire for a reliable,

1071.84

high-erforming solution that sets you

1073.84

apart from the competitors. We offer

1076.24

tailored software and quality assurance

1077.919

solutions to optimize the performance

1079.6

and reliability of your e-commerce

1081.44

platform, pitcher flawless user

1083.44

experience, increase sales, and a

1085.6

competitive edge in the market. Now,

1087.36

it's hard going after RAW because a lot

1088.96

of times I just want to say ditto, but

1091.039

anyway, good and bad. Good and bad this

1094.64

week. the good uh couple weeks ago there

1099.12

was a lot of like uh good previews

1101.36

online for upcoming software releases,

1103.6

video games, things of that nature. Bad.

1106.72

I have no time to play any of them. It's

1109.44

like there's so many cool things coming

1110.72

out. It's like, "Oh, I want to play

1111.919

that. I want to play that. I want to

1112.88

play that. I want to play it." I'm like,

1114.64

"I don't have time. What the hell am I

1116.16

thinking?" So, it's like, "Okay, which

1117.36

one of the three and when are they

1118.64

coming out?" It's like, "Cool. This

1121.039

year, my wife might actually have a

1123.28

chance to buy me a Christmas present

1125.039

because I will not have a chance to buy

1126.88

it for myself before the end of the

1128.88

year, unless it happens to be a Switch

1131.6

if I can happen to find one between now

1133.84

and then because I doubt she will. Back

1136.799

to you.

1138.4

U switch two,

1141.76

I'll geek out for a second. Switch to my

1144.24

list. I'm going to get one for my wife

1145.6

first because she has zero switches,

1147.44

which is probably why she's such a sad

1150.08

individual. If she had just one, she

1151.679

would be a happier person,

1153.919

but I'm going to go ahead as soon as I

1156.559

can get her one. Yes. Smack upside the

1158.32

head. Um,

1161.039

try to get her one if I can.

1165.919

She's choking me now. Segue there. Don't

1168.96

buy used. Oh, definitely. I know

1171.76

apparently has bricked those, so be

1173.44

careful with that. Yeah, they've they've

1176.72

taken a very That's a whole another

1178.559

topic, a whole another world. Maybe

1180.88

we'll talk about that like in

1182.08

Thanksgiving or Christmas episodes. Um

1184.799

Nintendo took a really interesting uh

1187.6

stance on the Switch 2 uh release, which

1191.12

has been very interesting. Um anyways,

1193.919

would love to get one get one for my

1196.48

wife first. I am just waiting for

1200.32

I know I'm probably the only person that

1202

does this, but Oblivion the like new

1204.4

release on the Steam Deck is still

1207.28

driving me nuts. Sometimes it crashes

1209.44

sometimes. Like as soon as I do a quick

1211.52

travel to somewhere, it's like no,

1213.52

you're not going to do that. And the

1215.44

heat that pours off of that is

1217.919

phenomenal. Okay, geek mode off. Let's

1221.36

get back to our topic for this episode

1224.4

because

1226

we need to actually get back to building

1227.6

better developers and not gamers. Okay,

1230.32

so this episode I asked him

1234.72

what about essential habits for software

1237.44

developers boosting productivity and

1239.52

career growth and of course because GPT

1242.24

loves me chat GPT said great choice for

1245.44

your developer podcast and this is what

1248.159

it gave me. Okay, first it actually gave

1250

me a core message. I don't think I've

1251.28

had this one before. Core message.

1253.44

Success as a developer isn't just about

1255.52

what you know. It's about what you

1257.039

consistently do. The right habits

1259.919

compound over time into productivity,

1262.159

expertise, and opportunities. Oh my

1266

gosh, that is

1268.64

so much the message that we have built

1271.679

for almost a decade now.

1275.84

the momentum of

1279.679

sh I want to finish I'm gonna finish my

1283.36

thought and I'm gonna throw it to you.

1285.84

So

1287.919

see I told you we're like an old married

1290.559

couple.

1292.559

We talk about momentum. We talk about

1295.84

the like just do a little bit every day.

1298.96

That message is so much about

1301.52

consistently doing every day. And now

1304.64

I'm going to pass it to my partner who

1306.799

apparently has something to say about I

1308.559

was going to have you reiterate that a

1310.559

little bit slower so that everyone could

1312.559

hear you because you went through that

1314.24

very quickly.

1317.52

Wow. My wife just said, "Okay, I'm just

1320.88

kidding. Success I'm going to go I'm

1323.44

going to go very slow

1325.679

because this is really important.

1328.159

Success as a developer isn't just about

1331.36

what you know. It's about what you

1334.24

consistently

1335.84

do. The right habits compound over time

1340.159

into productivity, expertise, and

1343.76

opportunities.

1345.28

This is the core of the developure book.

1349.44

It is about you will stay every day in

1353.679

your job learning stuff, making

1355.84

progress. You don't have to spend hours

1358.24

and hours and hours. Just a little bit

1360.799

every day moves you forward and

1363.039

eventually that journey of a thousand

1365.52

miles when you do it a step at a time

1367.52

you eventually get there. All right. Now

1370.24

I'll tack on to that. So building better

1372.799

habits the core of this.

1376.64

If you do something for more than 10

1379.36

days repetitively it becomes a habit. If

1384.159

you do well are you kicking your head

1386.159

now? But I find that if you force

1389.12

yourself to do a task daily for at least

1394

10 days almost a week and a half it

1398.32

generally you will pick it up and it

1400.08

becomes a habit. There's good and bad to

1402.96

that. You can pick up bad habits during

1405.679

that while you're trying to do a good

1407.6

habit you could pick up a bad habit. So

1410.08

habits

1412

are habitual but be by the nature of

1414.24

habit. But

1417.2

one of the things that I'm very

1419.12

conscious of and I've talked about this

1420.4

a lot is make sure you make lists. Write

1423.36

down Whoops. Write down what it is you

1426.08

want to do in a day. Get it done. If

1428.799

you're not getting it done, you have a

1430.4

bad habit. You have a habit of saying

1432.4

I'm going to do this and not do it. The

1435.36

question is why? You need to ask

1437.679

yourself, why are you not doing it? Are

1440.159

you not doing it? Because what you're

1441.6

writing on your little notepad, your

1443.52

little sheet here, is not what's

1446.48

important. Are you putting

1452.64

are you putting being are you putting

1454.48

busy tasks ahead of important tasks?

1459.44

And that is the key distinction here.

1461.52

Make sure that what you're working on,

1463.76

what habits you want to build are

1465.52

focused on the things that keep the dial

1467.84

moving, that are really what it is you

1470.799

need to accomplish, not what you need to

1472.96

do to make it look like you're being

1474.559

busy and you're accomplishing things.

1478.559

All right. So, first off, for those of

1480.24

you that are watching the YouTube

1481.279

channel, you saw me going, "No, it's not

1482.96

10 days. It's actually I've heard it's

1485.36

21 days." And then I've heard speakers

1488.72

that are habit experts that say it's

1491.36

actually more than that.

1493.52

I the key

1496

is and I can't remember who s told me

1498.96

this or didn't tell me this specifically

1501.6

but I heard a speaker that they said the

1504.32

key is not that you miss a day, it's

1508

that you don't miss two days in a row.

1510.559

And I I want to say it's the Atomic

1512.559

Habits guy. I'm not sure who it is, but

1516.64

that's the key is to build momentum. If

1520.08

you miss a day, it's not going to kill

1522.559

you. If you miss two days in a row, you

1525.279

will lose momentum.

1527.679

That is the key. I'm going to jump ahead

1530.159

to a couple, but I do want to come back

1531.76

to this because I think this is so so

1535.279

important. So the first thing it

1538

suggested we didn't even get to the

1539.44

first topic was daily coding discipline

1542.799

habit write or review code every day

1545.679

even for 30 minutes why it matters keeps

1548.32

skills sharp builds muscle memory

1550.4

reduces mental cold starts how to do it

1553.279

many challenges open source

1554.96

contributions or small side project

1558.799

sprints pro trip uh track coding streaks

1562.88

or use a developer journal to stay

1564.799

consistent

1566.4

This

1568.24

is so much I will give you a second.

1572

This is so much what we preach. This is

1576.24

why we do the 15 minutes of learning and

1580.48

stuff like that that we do.

1583.44

This is something that has

1586.4

has been such an incredible benefit to

1588.559

me in particular as a developer. I'm

1591.52

going to throw this out and I'm going to

1592.559

let Michael actually talk because I've

1594.24

been cutting him off for so long. Um,

1597.44

this is so important to do with the

1599.36

technologies that you're not actually

1601.2

working on. So, if you are sitting in a

1603.52

Java developer job, but you want to keep

1607.039

your Python skills sharp, have a side

1611.039

project that is Python development. Or

1614.4

likewise, if you are in a C sharp job

1618.08

and you don't want to lose your job,

1620

your your C will be kept sharp for no

1624.4

pun intended through your day job, but

1627.6

you need to make sure that you're still

1629.44

keeping current. And it's not even

1631.279

current, but just not letting Rust build

1634.4

on the Java side of it. And I'm going to

1636.96

go ahead and throw it right to you. All

1638.559

right.

1640.72

Plain and simple. You're a developer.

1643.52

There are code repositories. At the end

1645.84

of the day, whatever you're working on,

1648.559

you need to commit to your code

1650

repository. Take five minutes, go look

1652.559

at GitHub, whatever. Create a temporary

1656.08

PR. I don't care. Go look and see what

1659.039

you did for the day in your code and

1662

does it make sense? If it doesn't make

1664.48

sense, two things need to happen. One,

1666.4

you need to quickly fix it. Or two, you

1668.64

need to document your code quickly so

1671.279

that when you push it back up, you know

1672.96

what you did. Because if you're looking

1674.799

at that co PR or that code review and

1677.36

you immediately cannot understand what

1678.96

the hell you did, you have a problem.

1682.32

And that is the first thing that jumped

1683.84

in my mind when you brought this up. So

1685.679

I was like, I wanted to jump the gun.

1688.559

That is a mega bonus because that

1690.48

actually is not in our book. That is a

1694.72

very very useful tip to have.

1697.76

If you don't re like we've never I don't

1700.24

know that we've ever talked about

1701.44

reviewing your own code.

1704.799

This is

1706.559

something we have recently. Um I have

1709.679

never used Sonar Cube before with my git

1713.679

with GitHub.

1715.52

I've used it with like you know here and

1717.36

there and I've used other code uh static

1720.72

code analysis tools like that but to use

1724.399

it in a regular basis has actually been

1727.52

a very informative

1729.919

process for me because every time I do a

1732.799

commit and a push it barks at me about

1736.24

whatever it likes or dislikes and that

1739.84

forces me to go back and actually review

1742.72

my own code more often. often that I

1745.76

would like to admit

1747.919

that is an incredibly useful habit to

1751.76

get into is commit your code. Even if

1755.6

it's your own little repository and side

1758.08

hustle, PR yourself and then code review

1761.6

your own code.

1763.76

Just that extra set of eyes when it's

1766

your own stinking eyes will help

1769.279

immensely. It is amazing what you will

1772.24

catch in those kinds of things.

1773.84

particularly, and this is why I love so

1776.32

much the static code analysis tools that

1778.48

are out there, all the way back to uh

1781.76

some of the like the very high-end tools

1784.559

that are out there. And I forget the

1786.72

names off the top of my head. They're

1788.24

very expensive, but they're very useful

1790.32

because they will give you feedback.

1793.52

That is exactly what you need as a

1795.76

developer because we get into our little

1797.44

silos. We have our way to solve

1799.279

problems. We have our way to write code.

1801.52

We have all of our uh preferences built

1804.399

out into our IDE.

1807.679

Use the if you're Python, use the uh the

1810.559

PEP.

1815.44

I'm getting choked up. I'm so emotional

1817.12

about this. Use Pep 8 uh in Java.

1821.12

Go and use the various Java sites that

1823.36

are out there. PHP has got its own uh

1826.24

version. I wish I could think of all of

1828.08

these that are out there. They're I'm

1829.679

missing them right now. go to the

1831.919

standards.

1834

How is the most current version used

1837.279

being that's out there that's being used

1839.52

that's being developed? How is that

1841.84

being written? What are the styles that

1845.2

are out there? And this includes like

1847.12

naming standards and stuff like that.

1850.399

Go look at those because they will make

1852.799

you a better developer. I'm going to

1855.44

move on. We have time for one. Wait, I'm

1857.039

not gonna move on because Michael has

1858.159

something to say. I think we have time

1859.44

for one more topic. We do.

1862.559

All right. What's the next bullet point?

1867.2

Yes, we've gone too far. Effective time

1869.679

management. This is so a and Michael

1872.399

doesn't know. I'm just going to let you

1873.76

know. He did not know that. That is the

1875.36

next bullet point. Effective time

1877.679

management habit. Use time blocks or

1880.24

pomodoro. Oh, I love this. to avoid

1883.76

burnout and context switching tools.

1886.64

calendar blocking toggle to o gg l

1890.96

notion or visual studio code timers

1894.88

side hustle angle maximize limited hours

1898.24

protect your maker time uh discussion

1900.96

prompt when are you most productive and

1902.64

how do you defend that time I am going

1904.64

to use this before I toss it back to

1906.32

Michael to say that I still I have

1909.36

adjusted if you if you go back to last

1911.84

season you will hear how much I loved

1913.76

the pomodora stuff it was because of the

1916.72

place I was in workwise at that mo

1919.2

moment. But I still I use a very

1922.799

different Pomodoro technique. I use a uh

1925.76

a focus app which I'm going to look up

1928.88

right now called Brain FM. Brain.fm.

1933.2

There's other ones like that. It's got a

1935.519

lot of different settings essentially,

1937.519

but it is just it is music that is it is

1940.64

sound and music that is intended on like

1942.96

enhancing certain mental aspects.

1946.88

I use that on a regular basis as my

1950

pomodoro basically and I have grown. I

1953.039

use a 1 hour 60inute pomodoro on a

1956.64

regular basis and it has been very very

1959.76

effective. But now I own my time more

1962.96

than I did before. before that 25

1965.519

minutes is what I needed because I

1967.12

needed to actually do like a little bit

1969.039

of everything. I have uh I have less

1972.64

chunks right now and so it works very

1974.96

well to do a one hour. I am literally

1978.88

exhausted in a mental sense by the time

1981.12

I'm done with the one hour and I get so

1983.76

much accomplished. So, I I I'm sorry

1986.08

that I keep singing the praises of that

1988.64

technique, but it really is if you can

1991.6

sit down and focus for a set number of

1994.48

minutes. I don't care if it's 25, 45,

1997.36

60, 90, whatever your focus is, you will

2002

be amazed at how productive you will

2004

get. Now, I'm going to pass it on to

2006.48

somebody that has always struggled with

2008.32

saying that word, but that's okay. He's

2011.039

gonna work on his Italian. Go for it,

2013.2

Michael. All right, I'm not even going

2015.44

to say it.

2018.32

That is a safe approach. Um,

2021.76

my biggest problem with this is in a lot

2025.279

of companies I've worked for or in a lot

2028.08

of situations, they do not foster the

2031.519

culture or the environment for you to

2034.32

thrive in the Pomodoro technique to

2040.48

actually do what Rob is suggesting.

2043.279

which is why I've gone with the list

2045.84

approach where I write down what I need

2047.84

to get done in the day and I try to

2049.359

stick to it. Project management tools

2052

are great for this, Jiren, Trello,

2054.079

things like that. But the problem you

2055.76

run into with those is still you get

2058.639

scope creep. You need to commit to

2060.96

something say I'm going to get this

2063.76

done. If you don't get it done, make a

2066.96

note as to why. Was it because you ran

2069.04

into scope creep? Is it because oh this

2072.24

problem you're trying to solve is bigger

2074.8

than it is. This is a big problem in

2077.28

software development.

2079.28

If you work on a ticket and you pointed

2082.32

it as a team as a one because it looked

2085.839

simple but you get into it and it starts

2088.079

blowing up you need to bring that to

2090.639

everyone's attention. So, the next

2092.399

standup you have, comment the ticket.

2094.639

Say, "Hey, I've uncovered this."

2096.8

Document what you found and then bring

2100.079

it up. Do not try to bring it up without

2102.4

documenting it because if you sleep on

2104.4

it, you're going to forget about it and

2105.92

the next day you're going to be like, "I

2107.119

have no idea." Um,

2110

just be clear and concise and document,

2113.359

document, document.

2116

Keep in mind the cover your ass CYA

2119.04

approach to everything.

2121.839

Even if you're on the pomodoro

2124.24

technique,

2125.76

make sure that what you're working on is

2128.16

what you're working on. And if it starts

2130.56

bloating or expanding, bring that up

2134.16

immediately. That means that what you're

2136

focused on is not focused enough and you

2140.64

may need some additional direction to

2142.32

make sure you get to where you need to

2143.68

be to get it completed.

2147.44

Gosh, that is is rare that I say that,

2150.56

but that is really in an incred No, I'm

2152.96

kidding. That was that is an incredible

2156

point to make.

2158

Part of what I find so much valuable

2160.16

with the Pomodoro technique, and I will

2161.92

note that Michael said it correctly,

2163.839

didn't stumble over it, and he's been

2165.52

drinking. Um,

2168

if you're on the podcast, no, he hasn't.

2170.24

Um, go check the YouTube channel. Um,

2174.4

it is very useful to have that pomodoro

2178.079

because it really does time box stuff

2182.079

and I think that is what as I have

2185.76

expanded the pomodoro length that I use,

2189.76

it has been really helpful with me and

2193.119

helping me understand even more my

2196.32

estimates for work. Because honestly,

2200.88

most of what I do, I think I can cover

2204

in a 1-hour pomodoro.

2206.8

If I get to the end of it, whatever my

2209.599

point is basic, well, my points, this is

2212.64

like a little secret behind the thing.

2214.96

My points when I'm doing um scrum

2218.32

pointing and stuff like that,

2221.119

it's basically the number of pomodoros

2222.88

it's going to take me to get that thing

2224.24

done. And if I take like if I if I point

2228

it as one and it takes me more than one

2230.88

pomodoro to get it done, then I note

2234.4

that. And Michael has really nailed what

2238.48

we need to do as developers. Whether you

2240.64

do it, however you do it, you need to

2243.52

document. You need to know

2246.48

where you misestimated it. It's not

2249.839

necessarily where it was misestimated by

2251.76

somebody else because you can only

2253.68

control what you estimate and what your

2256.96

abilities are, but this is what will

2259.68

help you become a better estimator. If

2262.24

you understand that

2265.2

this took longer than I expected, and of

2267.76

course with your team, if it impacts

2269.599

them, you need to let them know. Say,

2271.44

"Hey, this took longer than I expected."

2274.72

Like, throw that out there. That helps

2277.76

you. that helps the team. This there are

2281.2

so many levels of value that that brings

2284

to you. Now, I'm going to move on

2287.359

because I want to at least jump into one

2289.2

other and I have no idea how long we've

2291.2

gone because I apologize. I didn't look

2292.88

at the time before we started this one.

2294.88

We are too long. But I'm going to jump

2296.64

into this real quick and then I'm going

2298.4

to wrap this one up. Continuous

2300.4

learning. I love this even before I read

2303.44

it. Habit. Read or watch something

2305.599

technical weekly book, document, blog,

2307.92

YouTube or podcast.

2310.64

Hey. Hey. Um, growth edge. Stay current

2313.839

with frameworks, languages, and soft

2315.599

skills. My gosh, this is the bulk of

2317.839

what our book is. Career boost. Learning

2320.8

equals leverage. It's how you move from

2322.88

junior to lead. The best way to move

2325.68

from junior to lead is to read our

2328.16

freaking book and listen to our podcast

2330.8

on a regular basis because this is what

2332.32

we live and we are there with you. I

2335.52

will throw out hey brain FM if you need

2338.48

a sponsorship. Give us a call. We would

2341.119

love to talk to you. Love your app.

2343.119

Would love to like boost you guys on a

2346.4

regular basis.

2348.4

As always shoot us an email at

2352.96

I will even offer you right now. You

2355.76

shoot me an email in uh it is the end of

2358.96

June. You send me an email by the end of

2361.2

July. Me being [email protected]

2365.04

I will send you a copy of our book.

2367.2

Gratus free all of those other word

2370.8

libé. Uh I don't even know if that's

2372.88

actually the word that I'm trying to

2374.079

think of but we will give it to you

2375.839

free. We'll shoot you one. just give us

2377.76

your email address or actually your

2380.16

physical mailing address um or your

2382.72

email address. We'll shoot you the

2383.92

digital copy. I I would love to offer

2386.24

that for now because

2389.76

it is really got a lot of the stuff that

2392.32

we've talked about. I think it's very

2393.76

valuable particularly if you're trying

2395.68

to figure out how do you map out your

2398.72

career? Maybe you've topped out, maybe

2400.32

you plateaued, maybe you're struggling

2402.48

to figure out where you go from here. It

2404.48

is actually a very useful book. If you

2406.72

don't think so, I would love to get that

2408.72

feedback because we'll do a version two

2411.76

and we will do a better version of it.

2414.24

As always, we have Facebook uh we have

2418.079

developer.com developer Facebook page

2421.119

developer.com if you want to leave us

2423.119

feedback. Uh developer on X, you know,

2426.88

used to be Twitter. I think we've

2428.24

finally gotten so we can just call it X.

2430.8

Thank you Elon Musk for that to get a

2433.52

year later or whatever it is. Uh also

2436.64

developer.com we have a contact us form.

2440

Every single article, every podcast,

2442.96

there's ways to leave us feedback. We

2445.2

will get it. We would love to hear it.

2447.28

We would love to make this better

2448.96

because we are also building a better

2451.359

podcast for you, not for ourselves.

2455.04

Thank you so much. Thank you for your

2457.44

time. As always, go out there and have

2459.92

yourself a great day, a great week, and

2462.319

we will talk to you next time.

2466.079

Bonus material. Go watch the pre-show

2469.599

cuz there was a whole lot before the

2471.52

show. Uh, just one last thing,

2477.52

check out the website, check out our

2480.319

podcast, check out YouTube if you're,

2483.28

you know, if you're watching us, great.

2485.28

Um, seriously,

2488.079

thank you for being a follower of us.

2490.96

Like, share, repeat, and give us your

2493.839

feedback. Have a great day. I will say

2496.96

as bonus material, this is like behind

2499.119

the scenes. Apparently, there is behind

2502.4

the scenes a I guess it's a slack

2505.04

message. Yes, a slack message of get him

2508.079

food. So, apparently I've had too much

2510.88

fun this episode.

2513.119

I I actually don't apologize because you

2516.24

know sometimes we got to have fun. This

2517.68

is like episode Do you even know what

2519.68

episode this is? Is like eight nine.

2522.16

Nine. We're on nine. No. Overall like

2526.88

800 900. What? Yeah. Give me 10 seconds.

2530.64

Uh pull that up. Pull that up. You are

2534.24

on

2535.84

[Music]

2539.2

884.

2541.04

Oh my gosh. This is 884

2545.359

episodes that we have done. So, for me

2548

to have a little bit of fun, we're

2550.16

crazy. Yeah.

2554.16

And I say that this is bonus material. I

2557.52

will once again I will hang my hat on.

2561.119

If you have not gone through the

2563.839

interview season like it's like now

2566.72

about three or four seasons back it's

2568.24

like 20 21 something like that. Uh it

2572.24

was 90 something episode. It was a lot

2574.96

of episodes. The first couple of

2577.52

interviews were okay but by the time we

2580.72

got even like the fifth to 10th episode

2583.92

there are some of the most fascinating

2586.56

people I have ever met that we got to

2589.359

interview. I had so much fun. I hate

2592.96

that I stopped recording so many times

2596.48

before the end of like the conversation.

2599.2

I had great conversations. Uh Greg and I

2602.24

wish I could think of his name that was

2603.44

a piano player that had was worried

2606

about losing his voice. I hope it's

2608.48

Greg. Um

2611.28

incredible conversation there. The guy

2614.24

that worked with the Blue Man Group that

2616

is out with uh working with Google right

2618.079

now. Awesome. Incredible conversations

2622.48

and those are just pieces of it. Well, I

2624.64

was gonna say and if a lot of these

2627.119

podcasts aren't still out there cuz some

2629.359

of the platforms cut them off after a

2631.359

certain level of episodes, let us know.

2634.24

We have a lot of these archived, not

2637.119

necessarily all of them. We have most of

2638.8

them. So, if you want to follow up on an

2641.359

old episode, let us know. We'll send it

2643.2

to you. We will do that. And also I

2645.92

think the developer.com site I think has

2648.48

every single episode in some way form or

2650.8

fashion. We'll we'll find out because if

2653.68

you define one that is not pointing to

2655.52

an episode let us know because we will

2657.68

go like connect you know we'll correct

2659.68

that link and things like that. Um

2662.4

obviously 800 plus episodes in the first

2666.56

100 so episodes may not be as good. This

2669.599

is speaking as a guy that created like

2671.839

directed, exe, you know, director,

2674.24

producer, all of that, edited. Yes, it's

2678.079

gotten better. Um, I go back to the

2682.24

interview episodes to me still the

2687.44

pinnacle of some of what we did. No

2689.68

offense to Michael. We've actually had

2691.359

some really good uh you know the last

2693.44

couple seasons have had a lot of really

2695.839

good episodes, a lot of really good

2697.28

content, but the stuff we got in the

2699.52

interviews

2701.2

I that is topnotch. I cannot I cannot

2705.52

even, you know, say enough good stuff

2707.2

about it. So that's your bonus. I mean,

2709.68

we're still going to do interviews. I

2711.2

mean, we're still going to do

2712.16

interviews. Don't don't throw that out.

2714.48

I mean, it may be with you. You right

2717.359

there, you might be the next one we

2719.28

interview. Um, yes, we still have those

2721.599

on there. It may even be her back there

2724.56

that's in the like, you know, back in

2726.24

the, you know, the crowd that's yelling,

2728.56

"Hey."

2730.079

Um,

2732.48

the peanut gallery is full of people

2734.079

that want to be part of our interview

2735.92

guests. Um, I I will I will be honest to

2740.319

all you guys because you guys are, you

2742.24

know, me familia, you guys are like

2744.4

right there, Minte.

2746.4

Um,

2748.8

I love doing interviews. If you want to

2751.92

do an interview and you're not the most

2753.839

boring person in the world, and yes, I

2755.599

have interviewed like two or three of

2757.52

those people. But for the most part, I

2759.68

think I literally have one interview

2761.2

that never actually went to production.

2764.16

It was that bad. Uh, but

2767.839

that being said, I would love to talk to

2770.079

you and I have confidence that we will

2773.599

make an interesting conversation out of

2776.16

that. Um, I would love to talk to you.

2778.16

Shoot us a, as always, shoot us an email

2782.88

Uh, let us know. We would love to talk

2785.359

to you. Uh, Michael and I have not done

2787.839

the dual host interview thing. It is on

2791.68

our list of things to do. I have people

2794.079

that I want to talk to. he has people he

2795.76

wants to talk to. At some point, we'll

2798

do this. If it if it interrupts the AI

2801.68

uh season, I apologize so much. Um, that

2805.76

being said, I apparently have had more

2808.88

to drink and not enough to eat right

2810.8

now. And, uh, that's that behind the

2813.52

scenes stuff you get as part of the

2815.359

YouTube. Michael's doing the cut cut.

2819.119

We'll fix it. We'll fix it in editing.

2824.64

You guys have had more bonus than you

2826.8

wanted at this point. Thank you always.

2829.44

I really do appreciate you. What was it?

2832.4

892.

2834.56

Uh we're 800 plus. I mean, we're well uh

2837.44

884.

2840.16

884 is a lot of episodes. I will say

2844.56

100.

2846.319

One of my

2848.48

favorites, Gary Vaynerchuk, did 1,000

2851.76

and he quit. And I almost cried during

2854.88

that last week of uh Wine Library TV

2858.16

when he got to the thousand part because

2860.16

we knew we the crowd knew it was coming.

2863.44

Um I don't know that we're going to do

2864.8

that in a thousand, but

2868.319

hundreds is a lot. And you guys are

2871.52

there. I'm sure there's at least one of

2873.68

you. There probably only one of you

2875.52

that's been here from the start and

2877.2

that's actually me. But hey, um thank

2880.319

you so much for your time. We really do

2882.319

appreciate what you've invested in us.

2884.079

We would love to invest back into you.

2885.76

Let us know any way that we can do so

2887.839

that we can help you out uh or that we

2890.8

can improve our content. We're always

2892.48

we're always looking for ways as well.

2894

Always looking for ways to build a

2895.76

better podcast as well as building

2897.76

better developers ourselves and use.

2900.56

Thank you. So use thank you so much.

2903.44

Have a great evening. Have a great week.

2905.92

And we will talk to you next time.

2910.63

[Music]