Detailed Notes
In this episode of Building Better Developers, hosts Rob Broadhead and Michael Meloche talk with Kevin Adelsberger, founder of Adelsberger Marketing, about the branding basics that help small businesses grow.
Learn how to: ✅ Turn a side hustle into a real business ✅ Know when (and when not) to rebrand ✅ Focus your message and visual identity ✅ Avoid common marketing mistakes ✅ Build a brand that earns trust and recognition
🎧 Listen to the full podcast and explore more episodes at Develpreneur.com https://develpreneur.com/branding-basics-small-business-foundation/
A Little Background on Kevin https://www.linkedin.com/in/kadelsberger/
Kevin Adelsberger is the founder of Adelsberger Marketing, where they create work that grows their clients’ businesses, in a culture that values their team and the Jackson, Tennessee, community. After founding in 2014, Kevin went on to be a co-founder of Our Jackson Home and host its podcast from 2015 to 2019.Â
In 2016, Kevin was recognized as an emerging leader by Leadership Jackson. Then, in 2017, Adelsberger Marketing was named the Emerging Business of the Year by the Jackson Chamber. In 2019, Adelsberger Marketing sold partial ownership to Alexander, Thompson, and Arnold, CPAs. In 2020, Union University recognized Kevin with the Distinguished Achievement in Arts and Media award.Â
Kevin currently serves on advisory committees for Leadership Tennessee and Jackson State Community College and is a board member for theCO in Jackson, Tennessee.Â
He also hosts a podcast about business in West Tennessee called 40×45.Â
Kevin lives in Jackson with his wife and business partner, Renae, and their two children. They are active foster parents and are involved members of First Baptist Church, Jackson. They are also some of the few to cheer on the Minnesota Vikings from below the Mason-Dixon line. #Skol
#BrandingBasics #SmallBusinessMarketing #Develpreneur #BuildingBetterDevelopers #KevinAdelsberger
Transcript Text
[Music] All Right. There's Michael Malo. Do you have a set agenda for this or >> Oh, I thought I sent it to you in Slack. We kind of it uh hang on. >> You sent me kind of like what we'd be talking about, but not like I don't know if there was like a if you have a set thing that you're going to walk through or not. >> Um Rob typically just kind of goes with the flow. Um, we'll start with kind of introductions, things like that. >> Um, and then, >> uh, like we'll do our little spiel, then you jump in, do your introduction, and then we kind of do it. We kind of keep it more, uh, free flowing, so it's like Q&A. Um, >> okay. >> Rob will kickfully kick it off, and then, uh, we kind of flow into the, uh, interview. We typically try to do these in about an hour chunk and we'll split it into two episodes. So, we'll do a part one and a part two. >> Okay. I have a hard out at three. >> Okay. I'm trying to get him on right now. He's online. He just probably didn't see that we jumped in. >> Okay. >> We've been heads down. But, yeah, whenever we cut, but um when we're finished, uh once I get these cut, I will, uh send you the links, everything if you want to share on social media and all that. >> Yeah, absolutely. I would be happy to. you in your home office? >> I am. Yeah. >> I don't I don't think I've seen it from that perspective. >> Oh, >> I love that. I love that uh iron Iron Man glove or the Goth. Yes. Yeah, it's uh Infinity Gauntlet is the technical title. >> And then I've got some Lord of the Rings characters here. And I got my all my Viking stuff here. And then someone drew a picture of our team here. And my Westard graduate block here. Pretzel day. This is a client. That's for my hometown. you know, bunch of different fun stuff. And then I've gotten enough uh that's a waterproof camera housing and uh some fun mugs. >> Nice. There you are. >> Yeah. Having like trying to figure out why >> I know you notification. What? >> Oh, we've got white shirts to go with the red background. I'm just I'm at a client site today, so don't have the red shirt. >> Gotcha. Okay. Let me put my myself to do not disturb here. And >> All right. Do you uh Michael, you want to do the same way we did last time or you want us to do a break and restart in the middle of it? Did that work? Okay. >> No, that worked great. Um Okay. >> And just do our little intros and outros afterwards. um one >> start we'll start the first one we'll go all the way through and then um yeah we'll manufacture the end in the beginning uh afterwards. So uh I guess we'll do our little like pre here. Uh we are going to be talking with Kevin today for those of you guys joining in the video world. We have not started audio this time. Last time we actually just ran it all together. We're going to try this a little bit differently. Uh, so you guys will get to see uh probably a little bit of bonus material here and there. Uh, we're trying to figure out how we're going to do this around our interviews. Uh, still figuring all of that little those mechanics out. So, welcome. Thank you. And today, um, I don't want to get too far into it, too far ahead and steal his thunder, but Kevin is a marketing guy. We're going to talk about foundations of marketing and some of those kinds of great things. Uh, we have spoken with him in the past. Uh we will have links and such afterwards. He's a great guy. So uh and his team is so definitely reach out and we'll get contact information before all is said and done. That being said, get my little like get started here and we'll do our little dos. Oh no. Well, hello and welcome back. We are continuing our series, our season of developer, building better developers and we are building better foundations and we're once again bringing a guest on uh which if you're watching this you've already figured that out. Uh but we're going to be talking today about marketing and some of the foundations there. Before we dive in, I should introduce myself. My name is Rob Broadhead. I am one of the founders of developneur also the founder of RB consulting where we are boutique consulting company essentially we sit down with you we talk to you about your business we help you create a roadmap for success and then either help you execute on it or we can go execute for you whatever you need this is technology agnostic we use simplification integration automation innovation to help you find a the best way to go from here to where you want to be and make the most leverage out of that most expensive investment known as technology ology outside of people of course like the person I'm about about to pass it over to go ahead and introduce yourself. >> Hey everyone, my name is Michael Malash. I'm one of the co-founders of building better developers. I'm also the founder of Envision QA where we help businesses take back control with custom software that we build around your needs, not the other way around. We don't build cookie cutter software. We build custom software. Our focus is simple, great service, smart solutions, and a rockolid quality. We build tools that replace frustrating systems, streamline your operations, and are fully tested to work right the first time. Check us out at Envision QA. We combine development and quality assurance to give you software you can trust and support you can count on. Again, check us out at envisionqa.com. >> And because nobody does it better than him, I'm going to pass it on to Kevin to go ahead and introduce yourself, please. >> Well, thanks for that. Uh, Kevin Adlesberger with Adlesberger Marketing. We lead brands to conquer digital marketing and uh we're I'm excited to be here to talk to you guys about marketing today. >> Excellent. So see like this is a marketing kind of person. He's quick to the point and gives you exactly what you need to know. So I want to dive right into it. Uh we've even skipped the good thing, bad thing, all that kind of good bad stuff that we typically do. We want to dive right into this one. So I want to start right into like a foundation. Let's let's start with a and really what I want to do is back it all the way up to like side hustle level because I think that is where I find so many people struggle in the marketing and branding world and I know that we've had some of that as well where you start off on a side hustle and it grows into something that is either it has enough legs that it's a a product or a service that you're going to do on a regular basis or it's uh something to happen so it essentially flips from side hustle to day job or side hustle to an actual company. And now while you're side hustling, I think yeah, you know, there's there's certain attitude that people have towards it, the way they advertise it, the way they talk about it. But I want to sort of see if there are maybe some things that we should think about when we are in that that startup mode, that side hustle mode. >> Yeah. >> That will help us from a marketing and branding point of view down the road because we're not really like we're not really in that marketing think right now. We're really more in the just the thinking through the process and creative piece, but I'm wondering if there's not some things that you that you would recommend that maybe we could do to to put ourselves in a good position for the future. >> Well, I'll go to my own story for that even though I'm not a developer. Uh never claimed to be one. Um but uh when I started uh my firm a little over 10 years ago, a little over 11 years ago at this point, um I started as a side hustle. Um, I was working at a nonprofit in Jackson. So, I'm in Jackson, Tennessee, uh, near Michael. And, uh, I, um, started doing a side hustle, more marketing. Funny, I started working for burritos. Um, which is how I got started. There was a burrito shop called the burrito meal, which is like this like Jackson used to be at Jackson institution and used to go there during college. And he got to be friends with the owner and I was like, "Hey, uh, can I help you do some marketing in exchange for burritos?" So for and that started a beautiful friendship. Had lunch with him a couple days ago. He said the business has been closed for a few years. But um I started working for burritos. So I had a lot of good free food for many years doing that. But when I started as a side hustle everything I would do anything for anyone at any time if that makes any sense. Right. So um >> there's a quote by Leonard Bernstein that when I talk about starting a business I use this reference a lot. It said, uh, I'm no longer quite sure what the uh question is, but I know that the answer is yes. And so when I when you're starting out, uh, I feel like frequently, unless you're coming from decades of experience, if you're newer in a field or younger and you're trying to figure out what you're going to be doing, um, I think the answer is yes to everything that comes your way. the just to you know make some money um build some connections get some work done to show to other people. The problem with that is that uh when you start to become more serious about it and it takes up more of your time uh you're going to be spread too thin doing different things that maybe aren't in your best strength area and so you are setting yourself up for um not having the highest and best use of your time in the future. So, an example of that is we have a client who's a friend and he started working with me before a lot of people were working with me and um and I was grateful for that and he needed a cooler with his logo on it. Um, now this was this was uh you know 10 years ago. So Yeti was just becoming a a thing and uh and so I you know I didn't know you had to like have a minimum order to buy customized coolers and stuff. So I figured out how to buy a cooler and buy a sticker and then put it together and give it to them. uh I wouldn't do that today um because swag is not our area of specialties specialty uh expertise or specialty and so that's kind of an example of like hey at that time anything to make the client happy that was going to move the project down the field and build that relationship a little bit deeper now I can hand those people off to different areas that they can be that is better suited for them to to work with um and I'm okay with that because I know that um I am being more successful in these other areas. So as so and I think that kind of mentality would apply to you to the developer world as well. Um the further you get the more specialized you can get and really the more specialized you are over time um you can usually charge more too and so uh who's ever mad about that? >> Exactly. And I I think yeah I think we've just coined a new word that specialties is specialty and then expertise at the things. >> Uh sorry to be clear I coined that word. Uh I think the recording will show. >> So uh uh just when the checks come in keep me in mind. >> Oh definitely. Yeah. You'll be at the top of the we'll be like further down on the the author list of that. So actually all the way at the bottom. So I love that. Thank you for So you've even brought us a new word that we can start using. That is always awesome. what do you and so I guess one of the things is what are your thoughts on um in doing these kinds of things from and particularly let's let's consider a a side hustle business that's been around for a couple years. So you do have some uh you have some customers, you have some history. It's not like you just like made this up in your your head and nobody knows about it. It's like there's it has >> some level of people know what you know people know that it's there >> and then you're getting into this point sort which is often like you say is you you know you start out you do everything and now you start figuring out okay this is sort of where I want to go and so how do you see or or what are some maybe some some thoughts on doing like a either a relaunch or rebranding or something where you say okay what I did do I just get rid of it do I want to create something completely new or maybe what are some some thoughts that would possibly go in if you're when you're talking to somebody about that? >> Yeah. So, the first thing I'd think about is like audience versus brand. So, if if you are uh if your new focus area is different uh a different audience than the one that you've been working with uh for the last five let's say you've been in business for 5 years. Let's be side hustling for 5 years and you've been working a lot of different things and you've figured out the thing that you want to focus on has nothing to do with your pre-existing customer base. Yeah. No, probably a decent idea. You could do a rebrand without a lot of cost. If there's a lot of overlap in those two things, which there probably will be, I think it's a harder decision to make. Why is that? Uh branding is valuable for a reason. like the most powerful companies in the world, the most expensive companies in the world. It's not just they have a great product is they have a brand that people want to interact with. Now, not to say that the Adlesburgger marketing brand is worth a ton, but like our name is known in West Tennessee for good marketing. Um, and so what I why would I want to change that? um there's a there's a unspecified value in having a name in an industry or in an area for an extended period of time. And so when you're thinking about changing your name or your brand or your logo, u visual brand, whatever you might want to call it, you should think, am I am I hurting my dollar value? Am I hurting my networking opportunities? Am I hurting my my exposure in the community by doing this? And so that's a real cost that you have to think about. Um, now I'm talking about mostly a visual brand or a name here. If we were to get into like messaging um and verbal branding and talking about your focus and that that's a for sure thing that can happen within the existing brand framework that doesn't um that would not hurt you to uh focus in on that. Um, now I think a good part of that is being able to then communicate clearly what your new focus is. Uh, and then being willing to when a customer, older customer comes to you to do something that's not your focus, we say, "Hey, I'm sorry. I'd love to help you with this, but we're working on just this now. Call my friend Rob. Rob does that and he'll do take care of you." Sort of thing. So is that sort of to follow up that is it when you're doing it more from a the messaging side of it is it is it typically going to be better to just sort of ignore what you did in the past or is it more like a hey you one of those like hey we're we're new we're changing we're evolving and so we're moving into this area and to to sort of pull people along with it or do a little more of a I guess a harder cut or does it does it is it situational I think it's a lawyer's a good marketer should answer things like a lawyer. Uh it depends, right? There's a lot of situational components to that. Um the I would my encouragement is very rarely like a hard change. Um because uh you're going to lose some of that brand equity that you've built up uh if you just do this really drastic change. Um, if you are doing a lot of continuous business with the same people um like um once a quarter they're coming to you for the same thing sort of thing. That's going to be a harder conversation to have for them. And you might even need to tell them to say, "Hey, we're going to help you out for the next year, but beyond that, we can't we're not doing this anymore. We're not going to like we're not going to we're not going to throw you to the curb." Uh cuz I've seen that happen. I've seen people make pivots in their business and throw people to the curb and I would never send that company business ever again, right? Like even if even if I understand why they made their decision, but when you cold turkey someone and you leave people holding the bag, like that tells me a lot about how you do business. Um, but if you gave them a warning to say, "Hey, in a year, you know, this is a vital part of your business. In a year, we're going to not do this, so you need to and we'll help you find someone to help you transition." um is more of what I would think would be the appropriate uh path for that. Of course, if you're doing something completely different, there's no crossover. You're not going to burn any bridges. You're not going to lose any business. Making a identity that's more specialized to the application would would be a reasonable um process to take. And when we talk about branding um we like to think about in four elements. Can I share my screen in here? Is that going to be acceptable? No, go ahead. >> Sure. >> For those of you that are listening, you're you're not going to be able to see as much. >> I'm going to talk through it. I'm going to talk through it, though. >> So, this is just a from a PDF that we use internally. Um, when we talk about branding, that branding is actually four things. So, branding is your visual identity, which is what you guys think of as a logo, right? Um, it's your positioning. It's what you bring to the market and how you bring to the market. It's your identity. It's your mission, vision, core values, who you are as a company at your core beyond any colors that you have on the side of your your truck or uh on your shirts or whatever. And then there's the messaging. It's the how we communicate who the company is and our tone of voice and our elevator pitch and those sorts of things. Uh and so uh changing any one of these elements is a big deal. It should be a big deal in your company. like these should be solidified things, but as you make pivots, um charging changing parts of these things may make a lot of sense to present a more true um a true approach to the world for who you are and what you want to do in business. >> So, it's interesting that you brought this up because my question actually was going to be about this, but more for kind of the side hustlers going into becoming a more formal business. um at what point do they need to start looking at these points? You know, when do they need to really start focusing on like who am I? Things of that. Um can you give us some examples of where you've seen this be successful and see where people make mistakes? >> I the the if I'm being real uh I I'm this is a side note. I'm I'm I'm trying to retire the phrase, "Let me be honest with you," or if I'm being honest. Uh cuz I hate that phrase cuz it's like, "I was lying to you previously." So, I'm trying to switch that out with um if I'm forthright or if I'm transparent in this answer, you can be successful in a lot of businesses without a lot of these things dialed in. like you can make money uh especially a lot of boring businesses, you know, quote unquote boring businesses uh can make a lot of money not doing these things. But I think if you want to have a culture that is a competitive advantage, if you want to have a business that is uh that is going to win in a competitive environment as opposed to a commodity, uh you've got to have these things figured out. Um, so it's a part of being successful, but also you don't have to have it to be successful, if that makes any sense. Uh, in the the world that I want to live in, the businesses that I would want to grow, these things are super important to get nailed in. Right? Now, that being said, for my company in particular, we didn't have mission, vision, core, values for a few years in. Uh, we were still figuring out who we were. And so, while you don't need all of these things right away, uh the two that I would recommend you get right out of the door is the visual branding and the positioning and the messaging. Uh I the identity is probably a little bit more important to wait and figure out over time. Um the the the positioning is important when you figure out what you're taking to market and how you take it to market. For example, uh you know, if if someone was to introduce in our market, uh a guy that would come to your house and do your oil change for you instead of having to go to the oil change uh dealer or the mechanic is what they would be called. Most people would call mechanic. I just I can't I don't know. My brain doesn't work sometimes. Uh you know, that would be a unique positioning that you would want to build your messaging around. Um, and so as you figure out what you're doing, I think some of these things become more clear. So I don't know that you have to have them day one. Uh, you need a name or some sort of visual brand to identify yourself. Uh, and and and help people see who you are. Uh, but the other components, uh, I mean, the positioning, ideally, positioning comes really early cuz you figured out that there's a niche here that I can expose and make some money at. Um, but that doesn't necessarily because sometimes you might just be getting a side project from an existing customer or so there's a lot of there's a lot like you might might not be doing anything different. You might just be doing the same thing over on the side uh and then you slowly figure out your positioning over time. So it a little bit depends. If I had a preference like if I was to like design this in a lab and do this the exact right way, you would start with identity. you would then go to positioning, you would then go to messaging and then finally you would do the visual branding. Um, but frequently it happens I think in the exact opposite order of that. >> Now, oh go right ahead. >> Uh, so so you're given a good example of this with u, so you've been in business over 10 years. Can you give us some examples of where you've seen some bad marketing attempts or where business has just gotten it wrong completely? Um, and like how to avoid that. >> Um, avoiding bad marketing um is uh part of bad marketing is in the eye of the beholder. So there's that's the first challenge. There may be things that we think are really bad that make a lot of sense for that customer and their audience because keep in mind we are not always the customer of these particular efforts. And so keeping that in mind is really important. Now that being said, there's been some really dumb stuff that I've seen. Um, do you guys use Slack? >> Man, I hate that they changed their logo so many years ago. I'm still mad about it. Uh, and but you know, talking to my friend William Donald, William's like, "Well, you don't know what design challenges they were trying to solve with that rebrand." And he's I was like, "You know what? I don't stop trying to make me sound reasonable. I'm mad about this, William." Um, and so knowing what the customer base is and what their needs are is a super important thing to deciding whether marketing is good or bad. Here's an example. We worked with an HVAC company here and we knew that the owner was not super marketing savvy. Okay. Um had built a good business but not super marketing savvy. So, uh, he was not thinking his our marketing was being very effective because he wasn't seeing it, which is a red flag for any marketing person that's ever would ever have heard that me say that. Like, they've seen that before where the customer doesn't see the marketing, so they assume it's not working. Well, here's the thing. He's not the target market. Uh and so what we did to appease him though was we ended up buying a set of ads, spending company money, uh a little bit of it on ads on stations we knew that he watched um so that we could uh appease that concern from him. And so uh while it was not the best use of money uh it saved us all a lot of headache. So um so sometimes uh so bad marketing may not be bad marketing sometimes it is and usually that is because um you don't have enough people having input and what I mean by that is um what we've seen the worst marketing like for example recently Nike had um an ad in for the WNBA da that said let her cook. Um now uh let her cook in in let them cook or let them cook in sports parliament or in modern parliament is like hey let them do their thing. They're doing something awesome. Let them cook. Uh but putting it in juxtaposed to a WNBA game all of a sudden feels very sexist. Um likely two situations happened there. one, you had uh a manager of some sort think this was a great idea and didn't listen to another soul saying, "This is going to end poorly. Don't do this." Or you had a room of people who thought it was a great idea and there's probably not a middle-aged woman sitting there to say, "Hey, uh maybe don't say this phrase cuz it's not going to land the way you want it to." Um, we've also seen some things where there might be something that comes across as racially insensitive and it was likely a room of white older white men making that that ad pitch without having someone that has a diverse set of viewpoints in the room. And so, uh, so one, you may not be able to have a team of people in a room making that decision, especially as a side hustle. But you can try to think, uh, if I've got a friend down the street that thinks about the world differently than I do, um, how are they going to respond to this? Am I am I am I stepping over any boundaries that I Now, there may be people who want to step over boundaries on purpose, right? But if I'm not trying to start fights, am I doing something that's going to start a fight? And you know, they say that every day there's a main character on Twitter and you don't want it to be you. Um, you know, am I saying anything that's going to make me be the main character on Twitter tomorrow? Um, and, uh, and so thinking through it that way, uh, is one of the key things. Um, but the biggest thing that people do wrong with marketing is they stop thinking about their customer, right? And so if you are doing something just to brag um, and not providing any value to your customer, you're going to have a bad time. And so that's you sometimes the easiest way to fix um bad marketing is by focusing on your customer. >> So you mentioned u in some of the like getting started in that is that you know like the the coloring and the logos and stuff like that. How might I I've and there are stories of you I've seen of huge amounts of money spent on logos and colors and corporate you know fonts and the whole kitten kaboodleoodle. >> Sure. >> Um and then sometimes and there are some that you know they are in themselves you can tell that there's like there's a level of iconic or or ingenuity into like I the one that jumps to mind is like the Amazon where it's got like the smile from the A to Z kind of thing. So you've got the the hidden messages in them. >> How much is that is that is that something that sometimes where we over and I know I'm asking a marketing person this may be like asking the wrong person but is that sometimes overthinking it a little bit? is that especially when I mean I guess if you're going to be like a you know a Nike or something and maybe if that's your goal then yeah you want to have something that's you know lifealtering for people to see that logo but if you're you know a marketing company in western Tennessee is it really how much do those things factor in do you think? >> Yeah. So uh let's talk about Nike for just a second. Um, if I branded a new shoe company today, Nike didn't exist with that swoosh. I would probably get shot at by the customer. Be like, "What does that mean? That doesn't mean anything." Whatever. So, so Nike's logo is completely devoid of any meaning except for the meaning that they've built. Um, and and that's really what the power of the brand is, is like they have created the value to go with the icon. Now, your question was, you know, uh do you have to have this showstoppping logo to um a good, and you're right, you're asking a man with a hammer, does the problem look like a nail? And so, the question is yes. Uh but, uh but a couple things to think about. >> Uh a good logo, maybe not even a great logo, but a good logo used well, adds professionalism to your product. And so if you are in a competitive space or you're new and you've got a professionallook brand, you're like, okay, maybe they you get some credit for that. Also over time, if you have a professional logo and you use it consistently, you ha you add some brand uh value. You add some brand equity to yourself where you can lean on that and tell you people will begin to identify in the right customer space. If you're marketing yourself to the a certain demographic of customers, uh, a bad logo can get you confused with other people, could have some imagery that you don't want to have in it, you don't even know about. Um, the biggest thing that we see is I I can spot a Fiverr logo from a mile away. Like I can generally know, yeah, they went to Fiverr for a logo pretty quickly. And and so I may have a certain feeling about that, but what that means is is like other people, they might not know that it's a fiber logo, but they might be able to be like, "This looks like 30 other mechanic shops that I've seen." Um, how am I supposed to tell them apart? Sort of thing. Um, and mechanic shops are generally mechanic shops and real estate agents are generally the worst. Like I see um I see Fiverr logos constantly. And a mechanic shop doesn't necessarily need to have great branding to be successful. Uh, real estate agents need good branding to be successful. And so it's kind of funny to me that they've um invested in it that way. So, do you have to have this showstoppping logo? No. You should have a good logo that represents your business. And uh in a in an ideal brand kit like from a if you work with a professional, you get a brand kit. So you'll have uh vector and raster images. You'll have uh um different color samples so that let's say you sponsor a local high school softball game or whatever. Your logo can get printed on the jersey the same color as it should look. It should look right on that jersey whether it's full color or not, right? Uh a professional set you up with that. And so, uh it's a little bit more on the front end to have a professional do it, but the the payoff is like you're going to have a logo that will be relevant for the next 20 years, uh maybe if you're if you're lucky, I guess, 20 years. and you'll have a kit that will give you all the tools that you need to utilize it properly. Um, and a lot of times the cheaper ends don't do that and it's uh very frustrating from a design standpoint when you when someone doesn't have what they need and then you have to go make it uh because they they were uh cheap on the front end. >> And that is going to be where we're going to pause our conversation with Kevin Adlesberger this time around. Don't worry, we will unpause and we're not holding our breath until it we like went right on through it. So, don't worry. We're safe. We're being healthy here. Uh we'll come back with part two and we're going to continue the conversation and get into uh it really I think this is really good like one and two split of how we do this is because really got some foundation and basic stuff, but then we're going to get into like applying that a little bit more uh in the next episode. So, come back and join us for that one. Uh, as always, uh, I have to start off with if you have comments on this, if you have feedback of any sort, shoot us an email at [email protected]. You can check us out on at developer.com. There's contact forms. You can leave uh, com comments, feedback on any of the blog articles, anywhere that you see podcasts or, you know, listen to podcasts out on YouTube on the developer channel, Facebook on the developer page. We are pretty much everywhere we can think of. X it is developer. You can follow us there. Follow us on all these different places so you can hear about all of the latest stuff we do. Uh we are as you've noticed getting a little deeper into interviews and stuff like that. We may have to even update our schedule a little bit and do a little bit more because we just are starting to pile up a lot of stuff potentially. And uh also we've got, you know, the seasonal specials coming up uh pretty darn soon. We are in October right now as we're recording this and uh pretty soon we're going to be doing the November Thanksgiving specials and the end of year and Christmas specials. So, always some stuff to look forward to. Hopefully you are looking forward to your day. Go out there and have yourself a great day, a great week, and we will talk to you next time. [Music]
Transcript Segments
[Music]
All Right.
There's Michael Malo.
Do you have a
set
agenda for this or
>> Oh, I thought I sent it to you in Slack.
We kind of it uh hang on.
>> You sent me kind of like what we'd be
talking about, but not like I don't know
if there was like a if you have a set
thing that you're going to walk through
or not.
>> Um Rob typically just kind of goes with
the flow. Um, we'll start with kind of
introductions, things like that.
>> Um, and then,
>> uh, like we'll do our little spiel, then
you jump in, do your introduction, and
then we kind of do it. We kind of keep
it more, uh, free flowing, so it's like
Q&A. Um,
>> okay.
>> Rob will kickfully kick it off, and
then, uh, we kind of flow into the, uh,
interview. We typically try to do these
in about an hour chunk and we'll split
it into two episodes. So, we'll do a
part one and a part two.
>> Okay. I have a hard out at three.
>> Okay. I'm trying to get him on right
now. He's online. He just probably
didn't see that we jumped in.
>> Okay.
>> We've been heads down. But, yeah,
whenever we cut, but um when we're
finished, uh once I get these cut, I
will, uh send you the links, everything
if you want to share on social media and
all that.
>> Yeah, absolutely. I would be happy to.
you in your home office?
>> I am. Yeah.
>> I don't I don't think I've seen it from
that perspective.
>> Oh,
>> I love that. I love that uh iron Iron
Man glove or the Goth. Yes.
Yeah, it's uh Infinity Gauntlet is the
technical title.
>> And then I've got some Lord of the Rings
characters here. And I got my all my
Viking stuff here.
And then someone drew a picture of our
team here. And my Westard graduate block
here.
Pretzel day. This is a client. That's
for my hometown.
you know, bunch of different fun stuff.
And then I've gotten enough uh that's a
waterproof camera housing and uh some
fun mugs.
>> Nice.
There you are.
>> Yeah. Having like trying to figure out
why
>> I know you notification.
What?
>> Oh, we've got white shirts to go with
the red background. I'm just I'm at a
client site today, so don't have the red
shirt.
>> Gotcha.
Okay. Let me put my myself to do not
disturb here. And
>> All right. Do you uh Michael, you want
to do the same way we did last time or
you want us to do a break and restart in
the middle of it? Did that work? Okay.
>> No, that worked great. Um Okay.
>> And just do our little intros and outros
afterwards. um one
>> start we'll start the first one we'll go
all the way through and then um yeah
we'll manufacture the end in the
beginning uh afterwards. So uh I guess
we'll do our little like pre here. Uh we
are going to be talking with Kevin today
for those of you guys joining in the
video world. We have not started audio
this time. Last time we actually just
ran it all together. We're going to try
this a little bit differently. Uh, so
you guys will get to see uh probably a
little bit of bonus material here and
there. Uh, we're trying to figure out
how we're going to do this around our
interviews. Uh, still figuring all of
that little those mechanics out. So,
welcome. Thank you. And today, um, I
don't want to get too far into it, too
far ahead and steal his thunder, but
Kevin is a marketing guy. We're going to
talk about foundations of marketing and
some of those kinds of great things. Uh,
we have spoken with him in the past. Uh
we will have links and such afterwards.
He's a great guy. So uh and his team is
so definitely reach out and we'll get
contact information before all is said
and done. That being said,
get my little like get started here
and we'll do our little dos. Oh no.
Well, hello and welcome back. We are
continuing our series, our season of
developer, building better developers
and we are building better foundations
and we're once again bringing a guest on
uh which if you're watching this you've
already figured that out. Uh but we're
going to be talking today about
marketing and some of the foundations
there. Before we dive in, I should
introduce myself. My name is Rob
Broadhead. I am one of the founders of
developneur also the founder of RB
consulting where we are boutique
consulting company essentially we sit
down with you we talk to you about your
business we help you create a roadmap
for success and then either help you
execute on it or we can go execute for
you whatever you need this is technology
agnostic we use simplification
integration automation innovation to
help you find a the best way to go from
here to where you want to be and make
the most leverage out of that most
expensive investment known as technology
ology outside of people of course like
the person I'm about about to pass it
over to go ahead and introduce yourself.
>> Hey everyone, my name is Michael Malash.
I'm one of the co-founders of building
better developers. I'm also the founder
of Envision QA where we help businesses
take back control with custom software
that we build around your needs, not the
other way around. We don't build cookie
cutter software. We build custom
software. Our focus is simple, great
service, smart solutions, and a rockolid
quality. We build tools that replace
frustrating systems, streamline your
operations, and are fully tested to work
right the first time. Check us out at
Envision QA. We combine development and
quality assurance to give you software
you can trust and support you can count
on. Again, check us out at
envisionqa.com.
>> And because nobody does it better than
him, I'm going to pass it on to Kevin to
go ahead and introduce yourself, please.
>> Well, thanks for that. Uh, Kevin
Adlesberger with Adlesberger Marketing.
We lead brands to conquer digital
marketing and uh we're I'm excited to be
here to talk to you guys about marketing
today.
>> Excellent. So see like this is a
marketing kind of person. He's quick to
the point and gives you exactly what you
need to know. So I want to dive right
into it. Uh we've even skipped the good
thing, bad thing, all that kind of good
bad stuff that we typically do. We want
to dive right into this one. So I want
to start right into like a foundation.
Let's let's start with a and really what
I want to do is back it all the way up
to like side hustle level because I
think that is where I find so many
people struggle in the marketing and
branding world and I know that we've had
some of that as well where you start off
on a side hustle and it grows into
something that is either it has enough
legs that it's a a product or a service
that you're going to do on a regular
basis or it's uh something to happen so
it essentially flips from side hustle to
day job or side hustle to an actual
company. And now while you're side
hustling, I think yeah, you know,
there's there's certain attitude that
people have towards it, the way they
advertise it, the way they talk about
it.
But I want to sort of see if there are
maybe some things that we should think
about when we are in that that startup
mode, that side hustle mode.
>> Yeah.
>> That will help us from a marketing and
branding point of view down the road
because we're not really like we're not
really in that marketing think right
now. We're really more in the just the
thinking through the process and
creative piece, but I'm wondering if
there's not some things that you that
you would recommend that maybe we could
do to to put ourselves in a good
position for the future.
>> Well, I'll go to my own story for that
even though I'm not a developer. Uh
never claimed to be one. Um but uh when
I started uh my firm a little over 10
years ago, a little over 11 years ago at
this point, um I started as a side
hustle. Um, I was working at a nonprofit
in Jackson. So, I'm in Jackson,
Tennessee, uh, near Michael. And, uh, I,
um, started doing a side hustle, more
marketing. Funny, I started working for
burritos. Um, which is how I got
started. There was a burrito shop called
the burrito meal, which is like this
like Jackson used to be at Jackson
institution and used to go there during
college. And he got to be friends with
the owner and I was like, "Hey, uh, can
I help you do some marketing in exchange
for burritos?" So for and that started a
beautiful friendship. Had lunch with him
a couple days ago. He said the business
has been closed for a few years. But um
I started working for burritos. So I had
a lot of good free food for many years
doing that. But when I started as a side
hustle
everything I would do anything for
anyone at any time if that makes any
sense. Right. So um
>> there's a quote by Leonard Bernstein
that when I talk about starting a
business I use this reference a lot.
It said, uh, I'm no longer quite sure
what the uh question is, but I know that
the answer is yes. And so when I when
you're starting out, uh, I feel like
frequently, unless you're coming from
decades of experience, if you're newer
in a field or younger and you're trying
to figure out what you're going to be
doing, um, I think the answer is yes to
everything that comes your way. the just
to you know make some money um build
some connections get some work done to
show to other people.
The problem with that is that uh when
you start to become more serious about
it and it takes up more of your time uh
you're going to be spread too thin doing
different things that maybe aren't in
your best strength area and so you are
setting yourself up for um not having
the highest and best use of your time in
the future. So, an example of that is we
have a client who's a friend
and he started working with me before a
lot of people were working with me and
um and I was grateful for that and he
needed a cooler with his logo on it. Um,
now this was this was uh you know 10
years ago. So Yeti was just becoming a a
thing
and uh and so I you know I didn't know
you had to like have a minimum order to
buy customized coolers and stuff. So I
figured out how to buy a cooler and buy
a sticker and then put it together and
give it to them.
uh I wouldn't do that today um because
swag is not our area of specialties
specialty uh expertise or specialty and
so that's kind of an example of like hey
at that time anything to make the client
happy that was going to move the project
down the field and build that
relationship a little bit deeper now I
can hand those people off to different
areas that they can be that is better
suited for them to to work with um and
I'm okay with that because I know that
um I am being more successful in these
other areas. So as so and I think that
kind of mentality would apply to you to
the developer world as well. Um the
further you get the more specialized you
can get and really the more specialized
you are over time um you can usually
charge more too and so uh who's ever mad
about that?
>> Exactly. And I I think yeah I think
we've just coined a new word that
specialties is specialty and then
expertise at the things.
>> Uh sorry to be clear I coined that word.
Uh I think the recording will show.
>> So uh uh just when the checks come in
keep me in mind.
>> Oh definitely. Yeah. You'll be at the
top of the we'll be like further down on
the the author list of that. So actually
all the way at the bottom. So I love
that. Thank you for So you've even
brought us a new word that we can start
using. That is always awesome. what do
you and so I guess one of the things is
what are your thoughts on
um in doing these kinds of things from
and particularly let's let's consider a
a side hustle business that's been
around for a couple years. So you do
have some uh you have some customers,
you have some history. It's not like you
just like made this up in your your head
and nobody knows about it. It's like
there's it has
>> some level of people know what you know
people know that it's there
>> and then you're getting into this point
sort which is often like you say is you
you know you start out you do everything
and now you start figuring out okay this
is sort of where I want to go and so how
do you see or or what are some maybe
some some thoughts on doing like a
either a relaunch or rebranding or
something where you say okay what I did
do I just get rid of it do I want to
create something completely new or maybe
what are some some thoughts that would
possibly go in if you're when you're
talking to somebody about that?
>> Yeah. So, the first thing I'd think
about is like audience versus brand. So,
if if you are uh if your new focus area
is different uh a different audience
than the one that you've been working
with uh for the last five let's say
you've been in business for 5 years.
Let's be side hustling for 5 years and
you've been working a lot of different
things and you've figured out the thing
that you want to focus on has nothing to
do with your pre-existing customer base.
Yeah. No, probably a decent idea. You
could do a rebrand without a lot of
cost. If there's a lot of overlap in
those two things, which there probably
will be, I think it's a harder decision
to make. Why is that? Uh branding is
valuable for a reason. like the most
powerful companies in the world, the
most expensive companies in the world.
It's not just they have a great product
is they have a brand that people want to
interact with. Now, not to say that the
Adlesburgger marketing brand is worth a
ton, but like our name is known in West
Tennessee for good marketing. Um, and so
what I why would I want to change that?
um
there's a there's a unspecified value in
having a name in an industry or in an
area for an extended period of time. And
so when you're thinking about changing
your name or your brand or your logo, u
visual brand, whatever you might want to
call it, you should think, am I am I
hurting my dollar value? Am I hurting my
networking opportunities? Am I hurting
my my exposure in the community by doing
this? And so that's a real cost that you
have to think about. Um, now I'm talking
about mostly a visual brand or a name
here. If we were to get into like
messaging um and verbal branding and
talking about your focus and that that's
a for sure thing that can happen within
the existing brand framework that
doesn't um that would not hurt you to uh
focus in on that. Um, now I think a good
part of that is being able to then
communicate clearly what your new focus
is. Uh, and then being willing to when a
customer, older customer comes to you to
do something that's not your focus, we
say, "Hey, I'm sorry. I'd love to help
you with this, but we're working on just
this now. Call my friend Rob. Rob does
that and he'll do take care of you."
Sort of thing.
So is that sort of to follow up that is
it when you're doing it more from a the
messaging side of it is it is it
typically going to be better to just
sort of ignore what you did in the past
or is it more like a hey you one of
those like hey we're we're new we're
changing we're evolving and so we're
moving into this area and to to sort of
pull people along with it or do a little
more of a I guess a harder cut or does
it does it is it situational
I think it's a lawyer's a good marketer
should answer things like a lawyer. Uh
it depends, right? There's a lot of
situational components to that. Um the I
would my encouragement is very rarely
like a hard change. Um because uh you're
going to lose some of that brand equity
that you've built up uh if you just do
this really drastic change. Um, if you
are doing a lot of continuous business
with the same people
um like um once a quarter they're coming
to you for the same thing sort of thing.
That's going to be a harder conversation
to have for them. And you might even
need to tell them to say, "Hey, we're
going to help you out for the next year,
but beyond that, we can't we're not
doing this anymore. We're not going to
like we're not going to we're not going
to throw you to the curb." Uh cuz I've
seen that happen. I've seen people make
pivots in their business and throw
people to the curb and I would never
send that company business ever again,
right? Like even if even if I understand
why they made their decision, but when
you cold turkey someone and you leave
people holding the bag, like that tells
me a lot about how you do business. Um,
but if you gave them a warning to say,
"Hey, in a year, you know, this is a
vital part of your business. In a year,
we're going to not do this, so you need
to and we'll help you find someone to
help you transition." um is more of what
I would think would be the appropriate
uh path for that. Of course, if you're
doing something completely different,
there's no crossover. You're not going
to burn any bridges. You're not going to
lose any business. Making a identity
that's more specialized to the
application would would be a reasonable
um process to take. And when we talk
about branding
um we like to think about in four
elements. Can I share my screen in here?
Is that going to be acceptable? No, go
ahead.
>> Sure.
>> For those of you that are listening,
you're you're not going to be able to
see as much.
>> I'm going to talk through it. I'm going
to talk through it, though.
>> So, this is just a from a PDF that we
use internally. Um, when we talk about
branding, that branding is actually four
things. So, branding is your visual
identity, which is what you guys think
of as a logo, right? Um, it's your
positioning. It's what you bring to the
market and how you bring to the market.
It's your identity. It's your mission,
vision, core values, who you are as a
company at your core beyond any colors
that you have on the side of your your
truck or uh on your shirts or whatever.
And then there's the messaging. It's the
how we communicate who the company is
and our tone of voice and our elevator
pitch and those sorts of things. Uh and
so uh changing any one of these elements
is a big deal. It should be a big deal
in your company. like these should be
solidified things, but as you make
pivots, um charging changing parts of
these things may make a lot of sense to
present a more true um a true approach
to the world for who you are and what
you want to do in business.
>> So, it's interesting that you brought
this up because my question actually was
going to be about this, but more for
kind of the side hustlers going into
becoming a more formal business.
um at what point do they need to start
looking at these points? You know, when
do they need to really start focusing on
like who am I? Things of that. Um can
you give us some examples of where
you've seen this be successful and see
where people make mistakes?
>> I the the if I'm being real uh I I'm
this is a side note. I'm I'm I'm trying
to retire the phrase, "Let me be honest
with you," or if I'm being honest. Uh
cuz I hate that phrase cuz it's like, "I
was lying to you previously." So, I'm
trying to switch that out with um if I'm
forthright or if I'm transparent in this
answer, you can be successful in a lot
of businesses without a lot of these
things dialed in. like you can make
money uh especially a lot of boring
businesses, you know, quote unquote
boring businesses uh can make a lot of
money not doing these things. But I
think if you want to have a culture that
is a competitive advantage, if you want
to have a business that is uh that is
going to win in a competitive
environment as opposed to a commodity,
uh you've got to have these things
figured out. Um, so it's a part of being
successful, but also you don't have to
have it to be successful, if that makes
any sense. Uh, in the the world that I
want to live in, the businesses that I
would want to grow, these things are
super important to get nailed in. Right?
Now, that being said, for my company in
particular, we didn't have mission,
vision, core, values for a few years in.
Uh, we were still figuring out who we
were. And so, while you don't need all
of these things right away, uh the two
that I would recommend you get right out
of the door is the visual branding and
the positioning and the messaging. Uh I
the identity is probably a little bit
more important to wait and figure out
over time. Um the the the positioning is
important when you figure out what
you're taking to market and how you take
it to market. For example, uh you know,
if if someone was to introduce in our
market, uh a guy that would come to your
house and do your oil change for you
instead of having to go to the oil
change uh dealer or the mechanic is what
they would be called. Most people would
call mechanic. I just I can't I don't
know. My brain doesn't work sometimes.
Uh
you know, that would be a unique
positioning that you would want to build
your messaging around. Um, and so as you
figure out what you're doing, I think
some of these things become more clear.
So I don't know that you have to have
them day one. Uh, you need a name or
some sort of visual brand to identify
yourself. Uh, and and and help people
see who you are. Uh, but the other
components, uh, I mean, the positioning,
ideally, positioning comes really early
cuz you figured out that there's a niche
here that I can expose and make some
money at. Um, but that doesn't
necessarily because sometimes you might
just be getting a side project from an
existing customer or so there's a lot of
there's a lot like you might might not
be doing anything different. You might
just be doing the same thing over on the
side uh and then you slowly figure out
your positioning over time. So it a
little bit depends.
If I had a preference like if I was to
like design this in a lab and do this
the exact right way, you would start
with identity. you would then go to
positioning, you would then go to
messaging and then finally you would do
the visual branding. Um, but frequently
it happens I think in the exact opposite
order of that.
>> Now, oh go right ahead.
>> Uh, so so you're given a good example of
this with u, so you've been in business
over 10 years. Can you give us some
examples of where
you've seen some bad marketing attempts
or where business has just gotten it
wrong completely? Um, and like how to
avoid that.
>> Um, avoiding bad marketing
um is uh part of bad marketing is in the
eye of the beholder. So there's that's
the first challenge. There may be things
that we think are really bad that make a
lot of sense for that customer and their
audience
because keep in mind we are not always
the customer of these particular
efforts. And so keeping that in mind is
really important. Now that being said,
there's been some really dumb stuff that
I've seen. Um, do you guys use Slack?
>> Man, I hate that they changed their logo
so many years ago. I'm still mad about
it. Uh, and but you know, talking to my
friend William Donald, William's like,
"Well, you don't know what design
challenges they were trying to solve
with that rebrand." And he's I was like,
"You know what? I don't stop trying to
make me sound reasonable. I'm mad about
this, William." Um, and so knowing what
the customer base is and what their
needs are is a super important thing to
deciding whether marketing is good or
bad. Here's an example. We worked with
an HVAC company here
and we knew that the owner was
not super marketing savvy. Okay.
Um had built a good business but not
super marketing savvy.
So, uh, he was not thinking his our
marketing was being very effective
because he wasn't seeing it, which is a
red flag for any marketing person that's
ever would ever have heard that me say
that. Like, they've seen that before
where the customer doesn't see the
marketing, so they assume it's not
working. Well, here's the thing. He's
not the target market. Uh and so what we
did to appease him though was we ended
up buying a set of ads, spending company
money, uh a little bit of it on ads on
stations we knew that he watched um so
that we could uh appease that concern
from him. And so uh while it was not the
best use of money uh it saved us all a
lot of headache. So um so
sometimes uh so bad marketing may not be
bad marketing sometimes it is and
usually that is because um you don't
have enough people having input and what
I mean by that is um
what we've seen the worst marketing like
for example recently Nike had um an ad
in for the WNBA da that said let her
cook. Um now uh let her cook in in let
them cook or let them cook in sports
parliament or in modern parliament is
like hey let them do their thing.
They're doing something awesome. Let
them cook. Uh but putting it in
juxtaposed to a WNBA game all of a
sudden feels very sexist. Um likely two
situations happened there. one, you had
uh a manager of some sort think this was
a great idea and didn't listen to
another soul saying, "This is going to
end poorly.
Don't do this." Or you had a room of
people who thought it was a great idea
and there's probably not a middle-aged
woman sitting there to say, "Hey, uh
maybe don't say this phrase cuz it's not
going to land the way you want it to."
Um, we've also seen some things where
there might be something that comes
across as racially insensitive and it
was likely a room of white older white
men making that that ad pitch without
having someone that has a diverse set of
viewpoints in the room. And so, uh, so
one, you may not be able to have a team
of people in a room making that
decision, especially as a side hustle.
But you can try to think, uh, if I've
got a friend down the street that thinks
about the world differently than I do,
um, how are they going to respond to
this? Am I am I am I stepping over any
boundaries that I Now, there may be
people who want to step over boundaries
on purpose, right? But if I'm not trying
to start fights, am I doing something
that's going to start a fight? And you
know, they say that every day there's a
main character on Twitter and you don't
want it to be you. Um, you know, am I
saying anything that's going to make me
be the main character on Twitter
tomorrow? Um, and, uh, and so thinking
through it that way, uh, is one of the
key things. Um, but the biggest thing
that people do wrong with marketing is
they stop thinking about their customer,
right? And so if you are doing something
just to brag um, and not providing any
value to your customer, you're going to
have a bad time. And so that's you
sometimes the easiest way to fix um bad
marketing is by focusing on your
customer.
>> So you mentioned u in some of the like
getting started in that is that you know
like the the coloring and the logos and
stuff like that. How might I I've and
there are stories of you I've seen of
huge amounts of money spent on logos and
colors and corporate you know fonts and
the whole kitten kaboodleoodle.
>> Sure.
>> Um and then sometimes and there are some
that you know they are in themselves you
can tell that there's like there's a
level of iconic or or ingenuity into
like I the one that jumps to mind is
like the Amazon where it's got like the
smile from the A to Z kind of thing. So
you've got the the hidden messages in
them.
>> How much is that
is that is that something that sometimes
where we over and I know I'm asking a
marketing person this may be like asking
the wrong person but is that sometimes
overthinking it a little bit? is that
especially when I mean I guess if you're
going to be like a you know a Nike or
something and maybe if that's your goal
then yeah you want to have something
that's you know lifealtering for people
to see that logo but if you're you know
a marketing company in western Tennessee
is it really how much do those things
factor in do you think?
>> Yeah. So uh let's talk about Nike for
just a second. Um, if I branded a new
shoe company today, Nike didn't exist
with that swoosh. I would probably get
shot at by the customer. Be like, "What
does that mean? That doesn't mean
anything." Whatever. So, so Nike's logo
is completely devoid of any meaning
except for the meaning that they've
built. Um, and and that's really what
the power of the brand is, is like they
have created the value to go with the
icon. Now,
your question was, you know, uh do you
have to have this showstoppping logo to
um a good, and you're right, you're
asking a man with a hammer, does the
problem look like a nail? And so, the
question is yes. Uh but, uh but a couple
things to think about.
>> Uh a good logo, maybe not even a great
logo, but a good logo used well, adds
professionalism to your product. And so
if you are in a competitive space or
you're new and you've got a
professionallook brand, you're like,
okay, maybe they you get some credit for
that. Also over time, if you have a
professional logo and you use it
consistently,
you ha you add some brand uh value. You
add some brand equity to yourself where
you can lean on that and tell you people
will begin to identify in the right
customer space. If you're marketing
yourself to the a certain demographic of
customers,
uh, a bad logo can get you confused with
other people, could have some imagery
that you don't want to have in it, you
don't even know about. Um, the biggest
thing that we see is I I can spot a
Fiverr logo from a mile away. Like I can
generally know, yeah, they went to
Fiverr for a logo pretty quickly. And
and so I may have a certain feeling
about that, but what that means is is
like other people, they might not know
that it's a fiber logo, but they might
be able to be like, "This looks like 30
other mechanic shops that I've seen."
Um, how am I supposed to tell them
apart? Sort of thing. Um, and mechanic
shops are generally mechanic shops and
real estate agents are generally the
worst. Like I see um I see Fiverr logos
constantly.
And a mechanic shop doesn't necessarily
need to have great branding to be
successful. Uh, real estate agents need
good branding to be successful. And so
it's kind of funny to me that they've um
invested in it that way. So, do you have
to have this showstoppping logo? No. You
should have a good logo that represents
your business. And uh in a in an ideal
brand kit like from a if you work with a
professional, you get a brand kit. So
you'll have uh vector and raster images.
You'll have uh um different color
samples so that let's say you sponsor a
local high school softball game or
whatever. Your logo can get printed on
the jersey the same color as it should
look. It should look right on that
jersey whether it's full color or not,
right? Uh a professional set you up with
that. And so, uh it's a little bit more
on the front end to have a professional
do it, but the the payoff is like you're
going to have a logo that will be
relevant for the next 20 years, uh maybe
if you're if you're lucky, I guess, 20
years. and you'll have a kit that will
give you all the tools that you need to
utilize it properly. Um, and a lot of
times the cheaper ends don't do that and
it's uh very frustrating from a design
standpoint when you when someone doesn't
have what they need and then you have to
go make it uh because they they were uh
cheap on the front end.
>> And that is going to be where we're
going to pause our conversation with
Kevin Adlesberger this time around.
Don't worry, we will unpause and we're
not holding our breath until it we like
went right on through it. So, don't
worry. We're safe. We're being healthy
here. Uh we'll come back with part two
and we're going to continue the
conversation and get into uh it really I
think this is really good like one and
two split of how we do this is because
really got some foundation and basic
stuff, but then we're going to get into
like applying that a little bit more uh
in the next episode. So, come back and
join us for that one. Uh, as always, uh,
I have to start off with if you have
comments on this, if you have feedback
of any sort, shoot us an email at
You can check us out on at
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Follow us on all these different places
so you can hear about all of the latest
stuff we do. Uh we are as you've noticed
getting a little deeper into interviews
and stuff like that. We may have to even
update our schedule a little bit and do
a little bit more because we just are
starting to pile up a lot of stuff
potentially. And uh also we've got, you
know, the seasonal specials coming up uh
pretty darn soon. We are in October
right now as we're recording this and uh
pretty soon we're going to be doing the
November Thanksgiving specials and the
end of year and Christmas specials. So,
always some stuff to look forward to.
Hopefully you are looking forward to
your day. Go out there and have yourself
a great day, a great week, and we will
talk to you next time.
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