📺 Develpreneur YouTube Episode

Video + transcript

Dev Ops Overview - Part 3

2022-03-31 •Youtube

Detailed Notes

DevOps is a hot topic in recent years.  However, it is often misunderstood or ill-defined.  This presentation tries to correct that.  We look at its short history and how DevOps is used.  Likewise, we look at the pros and cons involved when your team embraces this facet of software development.

DevOps Is a Steadily Growing Area While a young way to look at a part of the software development process, it is still rapidly growing.  The tools available to assist in this area grow daily.  Also, the growth of the Cloud and systems deployed there make DevOps more and more a necessity for developing modern solutions.

Transcript Text
[Music]
so first benefits
one of the benefits we get probably one
of the major benefits we get from devops
is communication we have
we don't have as many silos because
devops sort of absorbs a lot of those
and so we're not dealing with developers
doing their thing testers are doing
their thing operations are doing their
thing
devops just sort of takes sits over all
of that and says hey we'll
we will help you out and so you guys
don't have to worry about your
platforms your environments we are going
to
own that
and help ensure that they are consistent
throughout the the team or the the
enterprise
we've talked about a lot of ways that
devops
is
a faster way to developers software
we're going to have a shorter time to
market we're going to get stuff out in
front of people faster because
we're not having to
reinvent the wheel when we move from one
environment to the next we've already
through code or whatever else through
automation we've already got a process
for building that out and so it's
oftentimes it's just a matter of point
it at a different location and then
press the button and it's off and
running and it's it's built it up it
deploys the things it needs to deploy
and
we have something in front of the users
the reproducibility of it is
should not be missed
there are
if you've spent any time developing
where you've had multiple developers on
a team
you probably run into the situation
where
hey we we need this
such and such a library or
this version of an application or
whatever it is and you spend a lot of
time trying to figure out what is it
that i have on my machine that you don't
have that will allow us to you know do
that hey it works on my machine
kind of you know solve that problem just
to make sure that we have consistency
and it could it could be as big as you
know you can say you're a java developer
and you've got
uh you you're running java 11 and
somebody else is running java 8
and things like that database versions
and all of these are things that i have
run into
in the last year
probably multiple times just because
their common problems is making sure
that everybody's on the
the same software page
be it libraries or
compilers or whatever it is
and actually in some cases now it's even
operating systems because your
developers maybe maybe they're on mac
maybe they're on windows maybe they're
on linux and it's
being able to provide a
a single consistent environment no
matter where you're at
so we can
get a lot of those
head-butting moments of you know my
thing is not quite configured configured
the same way as yours how do we get that
fixed
tracking all that down that goes away
and so that now is time that we can use
to work on features and
quicker read quicker and getting things
to market
that also combines that we're gonna have
less downtime or maintenance windows can
be smaller because we know what we're
dealing with we're not having to worry
about oh this is a new environment how's
this gonna work
and between the scripting and everything
else we
we are confident that this environment
is
almost identical if not
effectively identical to the environment
we're coming out of so we don't
we don't see environmental change or
difference issues as often
and that allows us to
you know when something's running we get
to the new one and that one can be
running as well we know that that's
going to work because it worked in the
other environment if something crashes
in an environment it's we're able to
just recode you know use code and just
launch a new
instance of it and we're off and running
again
automation
is always going to save us time well in
the long run is always going to save us
time but most importantly it saves us
from errors from typos and fat-fingered
entries and things like that
that when we do it manually we will see
if we script it if we automate it then
it becomes a non-issue and honestly and
it can be run
as often as you want or whenever you
want so you don't have to have somebody
awake at two in the morning
to run a bunch of scripts instead it
just automates it and lets us know so we
you know we'll get a warning if things
break
and this again there were people that
probably you know that were there was
night ops and there still are in some
places but it used to be there were a
lot of night ops people that they would
come in at
you know midnight or whatever and
be the operation side where they're
running backups and doing all the
different things that need to be done
from the operation side
and we can automate that now so you
don't have these people have to come in
in the middle of night to do
these things manually
we haven't really talked about
cons this has almost been selling you on
devops the whole point so
we need to think about also there's
concerns here
one
devops is a change they there's no way
around it it is a change to how you do
stuff if you haven't had it before and
you add devops in it
it's it's a whole different set of
skills that people are going to need
there are different roles there may be
different departments there may be
different managements different
processes
the whole
thing
you are bringing in
a
a new you're
cutting out of existing
groups
certain roles and certain
responsibilities and using that to
create a whole new group
it's a lot of changes
uh sometimes very
um
sizable like impactful as far as roles
and uh like management and titles and
things like that that people can get
you know nervous about
so it that's always going to be a
challenge you know we're dealing with
big change is
going to be
big work
sometimes devops can be expensive there
are
when you think of the tools um
[Music]
they're not cheap it's not necessarily
cheap to do this automation and that's
not just the tool itself but the time
required the
expertise the resources that you may
have to hire to
put these things in place
to
the time you're going to invest to look
at what is it we do
how do we ramp up a devops team to the
point where they can understand and
reproduce our environments in some cases
that especially if you've been around
for a long time building software
then you haven't had devops
there are situations where
you're almost blocked
building an environment from scratch is
some cases impossible i've been in more
than a few environments where
there is no like the database there's
really no way to build it from scratch
you just have to back up and restore
that's the only way that you move a
database from one another
i've been in situations where there is
source code that has been compiled and
built into an executable or dll
and the source code was lost
so you don't have a way really to
rebuild
uh some of those pieces
but
doing so and so getting yourself to a
point where you can do that that can be
time consuming it can be costly
with all of this because we are doing
things a little differently as far as
cicd and automation and scripting
there's going to be more
tools uh probably more um like
development languages and stuff like
that your tech stack is going to expand
almost always it's very rare that that
doesn't happen which in itself can be
an issue because now as you have an
expanded tech stack you have to have a
broader skill set for your team or you
have to hire a broader
team
to
to match those needs
there is a
there's a risk to
this
this increased speed
it's just like
if you're walking on a sidewalk
a completely healthy normal not klutzy
person or whatever but if you run
there is a risk that's incurred because
if something you know that you don't see
it shows up last second you have more
momentum it's harder to change your pace
um and it there is a risk to that you
know that's why you don't run with
scissors you know things like that
when you move faster
there is a risk involved and actually
when you automate stuff
there is
it's sometimes referred to as you know
versus
the difference between having a gun or
you can shoot yourself in a foot versus
having a shotgun where you can blow your
whole leg off
automation tools sometimes do that is
they give us the ability to
well we can fail fast because of the
automation we will see it quickly
sometimes we also are going to fail
bigger because
those scripts
propagated stuff further
and
you also have
because the
the devops group
uh and this is a particular one that
developers can complain about at times
if you do it completely then the devops
group is essentially controlling the
don't the development environments
they're saying here you go here's a
script for it
if you need to change it
then you need to let us know so we can
incorporate that into our scripts so
that can propagate through
to testing into
production that means there are
situations
where you could have your development
team down
because
some tool is there
another good example is
the the pros and cons when you think of
developers not working on a local
machine but having a vm
that they they work on
if those vms are unavailable or the
network's down so they can't get to them
they're down
they are not going to be productive and
so there is a there's definitely a risk
to all of this and there's the rewards
but there's also risks to doing so
and then while you may think
you know looking at it just
off the top of your head say wow this
should probably be pretty easy to scale
scaling up based on
the automation and
the
infrastructures of code and things like
that is
is pretty good
but when you have to use
that across multiple projects in complex
environments it can be
it can be quite a challenge
and when you think about like just that
developer example i use this is another
one where
you may have a development team that
you've got
it's very big so you've got
windows developers you have apple
developers you have people in
web development languages you have
people doing mobile development and all
these are different languages different
tools and different environments
if the
if you push it back on developers and
they just sort of figure it out and they
make it work when you have devops that
means they have to find a way to get all
these things to be scripted to work
to integrate with each other it's just
it becomes more
complex
and can be
very challenging particularly from a
cost-effective point of view
because sometimes it is
easier or more
more reproducible
to have these specialized individual
environments
that you've scripted out
as opposed to
you may have these like
i don't know almost like frankenstein
environments that can occur
when you have these developers working
on a lot of different tools at a time
and
they're able to do it because they've
you know got all of these libraries and
everything in place and
they just made it work as opposed to
having to do it and reproduce it
there's sometimes it's it's going to
take longer
you know doing a one-off is almost
always going to be faster than doing
something where you need to
be able to reproduce it
so that's another concern when you get
to big complex environments
so in this little
summary
overview what do we what
should we take away from this but one
devops is pretty new you know worst case
it's you know 15 maybe ish years old
it's a new way to think about software
development
and it has come from though
very
consistent ways to produce software in
the past it's people have seen that we
need a development environment we need a
testing environment we need a production
environment and we need to you know keep
those
sort of in silos and make sure that we
they are
called clean environments in each of
those areas
so it's new it's a different way to
think about software development
it's powerful we're talking about
automation we're talking about scripting
but it can be very complex
when you look at some of these scripts
you know even just like a simple doctor
script can seem like oh this will be
great it's awesome but if you wanted to
pull in
a
you know a certain version of a language
and then certain libraries and versions
for the bat language as well you've got
to set up certain structures and maybe
import database and certain files and
it can start getting complex quickly you
will
find that yes there's
whenever you have the ability to
configure stuff
heavily
then it can take a while to configure it
properly
as we looked in the pros and cons part
you know automation can go a long way
towards helping us
but
you know and it can reduce errors
but it can also
be almost like a crutch and we have to
make sure that we are validating that
automation along the way
so that we don't automate our way into
a lot of
damage that needs to be redone
a good example in in the database world
is the idea of you know deleting one
record is one thing but if you've got
these scripts that are going out and
trying to figure out all these records
to delete you can delete your entire
database before you you know if you have
a couple typos in there at the wrong
place
this has been done a lot there are a lot
of teams and people and some very smart
people that are have been doing devops
for
over a decade now
but even even at this point even with
all these tools and the advances and all
the in
you will see there are
steady advances like this month it's
going to be different from next month as
far as what's available out there
but there's still there's a lot of pros
and cons to the world of devops
questions and comments
that was pretty good rob
yes it was but um
so you need uh pretty much in like the
skill set since this is kind of a new
i'll call it a phenomena software
development in companies like
uh
you need to train
since we kind of used in uh the old way
of developing software like uh do this
without the dev ops like
does somebody need the skill set for the
devops it's all it's pretty much
automatic like uh somebody can just pick
it uh just like that oh no it's
definitely a there's definitely a skill
set to it um
it is currently probably the
i think it's probably an area that is
most
uh i say impacted by certification
programs
and certificates because there's not
really
it's really it's it's young enough that
you i don't know that there's schools
that have you know dev ops degrees
but there are definitely
tool specific dev ops kinds of things
you can get if you if you go out and do
a certification in google or azure or
aws
there is going to be
for the ones i've seen at least there's
going to be some level of devops that
that are part of that
part of using those environments and
being able to
automate and configure those
and there are definitely
certificates that are built around a lot
of these tools and how to
automate and code your way into
environments
so it's it's a different it is a
different tool set a different skill set
a different experience and focus
a lot of the the devops people have come
out of configuration management and even
some of the development world
but it is not
it's definitely not developer skills
there's coding involved but it's a
different type of coding
that
i don't know and i
i don't know how much
uh coding skills would translate over to
devops because devops is much is almost
it really is more of a hardware
kind of a
perspective on the world as opposed to
software because you're thinking about
memory and
resources like that and you know space
and
processing and
those kinds of things that you don't
really think about normally in the in
the development world
other questions and comments
like that said though one thing to think
about though with the containerization
like docker more cloud-based um
a lot of it is
i want to say more vm
so you're thinking a little bit more in
a virtual sense and you're a hardware
sense
but
it's kind of both it's a different type
of resource uh collection and
kind of resource allocation so to speak
yeah yeah there's definitely a
a crossing of those lines you think like
you're thinking the same way you would
if you were building hardware it's just
you don't have to do it physically
you're just doing it now in a virtual
machine
it's the same things if you had to price
the server
20 years ago you're going to look at
things like okay how many processors am
i going to need how much memory do i
need how much disk space do i need
uh if you want to get complex you know
how much
power supply do i need to do this and
things like that
now
you still have essentially a lot of
those same concerns it's just
you're not thinking about it from a
hardware point of view and you're able
to
do it almost more a la carte than you
would have you know in the past
other questions and comments
all right
so as always thanks for listening in for
following along uh always appreciate and
are thankful for the time that you guys
give
just for us it gives us an excuse to
learn some more stuff for yourselves to
make the industry better to become a
better developer
if you have questions you can always
shoot an email at info developernorm.com
throw something out on the contact us
form on developer.com
we have a youtube channel if you look up
developer door spot right you see we've
got
oh
i don't know 200 videos out there now
something like that growing every week
vimeo we've got a lot of the same
youtubers smaller or shorter format 15
to 20 minutes typically vimeo can run an
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and we still have somewhere out there
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if you would like to you know throw
anything out there
and
give us feedback as well
as always thank you for your investment
in yourself and helping us with our goal
of making every developer better
have a good one
Transcript Segments
0.48

[Music]

26.96

so first benefits

29.76

one of the benefits we get probably one

31.279

of the major benefits we get from devops

34

is communication we have

36.079

we don't have as many silos because

38.239

devops sort of absorbs a lot of those

41.36

and so we're not dealing with developers

43.28

doing their thing testers are doing

44.64

their thing operations are doing their

46.48

thing

47.44

devops just sort of takes sits over all

49.28

of that and says hey we'll

51.6

we will help you out and so you guys

53.12

don't have to worry about your

55.039

platforms your environments we are going

57.12

to

58.399

own that

59.44

and help ensure that they are consistent

61.84

throughout the the team or the the

64

enterprise

66.24

we've talked about a lot of ways that

67.92

devops

69.119

is

70

a faster way to developers software

72.56

we're going to have a shorter time to

73.84

market we're going to get stuff out in

75.119

front of people faster because

77.759

we're not having to

79.6

reinvent the wheel when we move from one

81.759

environment to the next we've already

84.32

through code or whatever else through

85.92

automation we've already got a process

88.72

for building that out and so it's

91.439

oftentimes it's just a matter of point

92.96

it at a different location and then

95.119

press the button and it's off and

96.32

running and it's it's built it up it

98.72

deploys the things it needs to deploy

100.96

and

101.759

we have something in front of the users

104

the reproducibility of it is

106.399

should not be missed

109.84

there are

111.28

if you've spent any time developing

113.439

where you've had multiple developers on

115.04

a team

116

you probably run into the situation

117.759

where

118.64

hey we we need this

120.64

such and such a library or

123.04

this version of an application or

124.719

whatever it is and you spend a lot of

126.56

time trying to figure out what is it

129.039

that i have on my machine that you don't

131.599

have that will allow us to you know do

133.84

that hey it works on my machine

136.319

kind of you know solve that problem just

138.4

to make sure that we have consistency

141.12

and it could it could be as big as you

143.76

know you can say you're a java developer

145.599

and you've got

147.04

uh you you're running java 11 and

148.8

somebody else is running java 8

151.12

and things like that database versions

154.319

and all of these are things that i have

155.92

run into

157.519

in the last year

159.44

probably multiple times just because

162.4

their common problems is making sure

164.239

that everybody's on the

166.239

the same software page

168.48

be it libraries or

170.72

compilers or whatever it is

173.44

and actually in some cases now it's even

175.04

operating systems because your

176.48

developers maybe maybe they're on mac

178.159

maybe they're on windows maybe they're

179.92

on linux and it's

182.4

being able to provide a

185.44

a single consistent environment no

187.76

matter where you're at

189.44

so we can

191.04

get a lot of those

193.28

head-butting moments of you know my

195.68

thing is not quite configured configured

197.68

the same way as yours how do we get that

199.599

fixed

200.8

tracking all that down that goes away

202.56

and so that now is time that we can use

204.48

to work on features and

206.64

quicker read quicker and getting things

208.239

to market

212

that also combines that we're gonna have

213.44

less downtime or maintenance windows can

215.76

be smaller because we know what we're

218.56

dealing with we're not having to worry

220

about oh this is a new environment how's

221.92

this gonna work

223.28

and between the scripting and everything

225.2

else we

226.64

we are confident that this environment

228.72

is

229.76

almost identical if not

232.159

effectively identical to the environment

234.56

we're coming out of so we don't

236.48

we don't see environmental change or

238.72

difference issues as often

241.519

and that allows us to

243.92

you know when something's running we get

245.599

to the new one and that one can be

247.599

running as well we know that that's

248.959

going to work because it worked in the

250.319

other environment if something crashes

252.48

in an environment it's we're able to

254.72

just recode you know use code and just

257.359

launch a new

258.72

instance of it and we're off and running

260.479

again

262.32

automation

264.56

is always going to save us time well in

267.199

the long run is always going to save us

268.8

time but most importantly it saves us

271.52

from errors from typos and fat-fingered

274.479

entries and things like that

276.72

that when we do it manually we will see

279.44

if we script it if we automate it then

281.759

it becomes a non-issue and honestly and

283.84

it can be run

285.199

as often as you want or whenever you

286.88

want so you don't have to have somebody

288.4

awake at two in the morning

290.32

to run a bunch of scripts instead it

292.96

just automates it and lets us know so we

295.36

you know we'll get a warning if things

296.88

break

298.639

and this again there were people that

300.88

probably you know that were there was

302.08

night ops and there still are in some

303.52

places but it used to be there were a

305.12

lot of night ops people that they would

306.72

come in at

307.84

you know midnight or whatever and

309.6

be the operation side where they're

311.199

running backups and doing all the

313.12

different things that need to be done

314.88

from the operation side

316.72

and we can automate that now so you

318.24

don't have these people have to come in

319.52

in the middle of night to do

321.12

these things manually

324.96

we haven't really talked about

327.44

cons this has almost been selling you on

329.28

devops the whole point so

331.44

we need to think about also there's

332.72

concerns here

334.32

one

335.199

devops is a change they there's no way

337.919

around it it is a change to how you do

340.8

stuff if you haven't had it before and

342.72

you add devops in it

344.8

it's it's a whole different set of

346.4

skills that people are going to need

347.84

there are different roles there may be

349.44

different departments there may be

350.8

different managements different

352.08

processes

353.44

the whole

354.639

thing

355.52

you are bringing in

357.36

a

359.199

a new you're

360.88

cutting out of existing

363.28

groups

364.4

certain roles and certain

365.68

responsibilities and using that to

367.919

create a whole new group

370.8

it's a lot of changes

372.88

uh sometimes very

375.12

um

376.08

sizable like impactful as far as roles

378.56

and uh like management and titles and

381.28

things like that that people can get

383.919

you know nervous about

385.52

so it that's always going to be a

386.88

challenge you know we're dealing with

388.639

big change is

390.56

going to be

391.759

big work

392.84

sometimes devops can be expensive there

395.84

are

397.759

when you think of the tools um

399.71

[Music]

401.039

they're not cheap it's not necessarily

402.88

cheap to do this automation and that's

405.12

not just the tool itself but the time

406.8

required the

409.36

expertise the resources that you may

411.28

have to hire to

412.96

put these things in place

415.12

to

415.919

the time you're going to invest to look

418.24

at what is it we do

419.84

how do we ramp up a devops team to the

422

point where they can understand and

423.44

reproduce our environments in some cases

426

that especially if you've been around

428.16

for a long time building software

430.479

then you haven't had devops

432.319

there are situations where

435.039

you're almost blocked

436.72

building an environment from scratch is

439.68

some cases impossible i've been in more

442.16

than a few environments where

444.08

there is no like the database there's

446.72

really no way to build it from scratch

449.199

you just have to back up and restore

451.36

that's the only way that you move a

452.72

database from one another

454.479

i've been in situations where there is

455.84

source code that has been compiled and

457.52

built into an executable or dll

460.24

and the source code was lost

463.039

so you don't have a way really to

465.599

rebuild

466.639

uh some of those pieces

469.44

but

470.8

doing so and so getting yourself to a

472.56

point where you can do that that can be

474.08

time consuming it can be costly

476.56

with all of this because we are doing

479.039

things a little differently as far as

481.28

cicd and automation and scripting

484

there's going to be more

485.68

tools uh probably more um like

489.199

development languages and stuff like

490.96

that your tech stack is going to expand

494.479

almost always it's very rare that that

496.639

doesn't happen which in itself can be

500.56

an issue because now as you have an

502.72

expanded tech stack you have to have a

504.879

broader skill set for your team or you

507.759

have to hire a broader

510.16

team

511.039

to

511.759

to match those needs

514.8

there is a

517.599

there's a risk to

520.8

this

521.919

this increased speed

524.08

it's just like

526

if you're walking on a sidewalk

528.88

a completely healthy normal not klutzy

531.839

person or whatever but if you run

535.6

there is a risk that's incurred because

537.12

if something you know that you don't see

538.88

it shows up last second you have more

540.8

momentum it's harder to change your pace

543.2

um and it there is a risk to that you

545.92

know that's why you don't run with

547.279

scissors you know things like that

550.16

when you move faster

552.48

there is a risk involved and actually

555.2

when you automate stuff

557.44

there is

559.6

it's sometimes referred to as you know

561.44

versus

562.399

the difference between having a gun or

563.839

you can shoot yourself in a foot versus

565.519

having a shotgun where you can blow your

566.88

whole leg off

568.64

automation tools sometimes do that is

570.399

they give us the ability to

573.68

well we can fail fast because of the

575.76

automation we will see it quickly

577.92

sometimes we also are going to fail

579.839

bigger because

582.48

those scripts

583.92

propagated stuff further

586.08

and

587.2

you also have

589.2

because the

590.72

the devops group

592.48

uh and this is a particular one that

595.92

developers can complain about at times

599.36

if you do it completely then the devops

601.6

group is essentially controlling the

603.519

don't the development environments

605.2

they're saying here you go here's a

606.32

script for it

607.519

if you need to change it

609.2

then you need to let us know so we can

611.12

incorporate that into our scripts so

613.2

that can propagate through

614.88

to testing into

616.839

production that means there are

618.64

situations

620

where you could have your development

621.519

team down

622.8

because

624.24

some tool is there

626.88

another good example is

629.36

the the pros and cons when you think of

631.279

developers not working on a local

633.2

machine but having a vm

635.04

that they they work on

636.959

if those vms are unavailable or the

638.8

network's down so they can't get to them

640.959

they're down

642.399

they are not going to be productive and

644.8

so there is a there's definitely a risk

646.72

to all of this and there's the rewards

648.72

but there's also risks to doing so

652.88

and then while you may think

654.8

you know looking at it just

656.48

off the top of your head say wow this

658

should probably be pretty easy to scale

660.959

scaling up based on

663.519

the automation and

664.959

the

666

infrastructures of code and things like

667.6

that is

668.88

is pretty good

670.24

but when you have to use

672.88

that across multiple projects in complex

675.92

environments it can be

678.32

it can be quite a challenge

680.88

and when you think about like just that

682.8

developer example i use this is another

684.8

one where

686.72

you may have a development team that

688.24

you've got

690.16

it's very big so you've got

692.16

windows developers you have apple

694.079

developers you have people in

696.32

web development languages you have

697.92

people doing mobile development and all

699.519

these are different languages different

700.959

tools and different environments

704

if the

705.04

if you push it back on developers and

706.56

they just sort of figure it out and they

707.76

make it work when you have devops that

709.76

means they have to find a way to get all

711.68

these things to be scripted to work

714.399

to integrate with each other it's just

716.8

it becomes more

718.56

complex

720.88

and can be

722.56

very challenging particularly from a

724.399

cost-effective point of view

726.399

because sometimes it is

729.279

easier or more

733.279

more reproducible

735.04

to have these specialized individual

737.519

environments

738.88

that you've scripted out

740.639

as opposed to

742.32

you may have these like

744.959

i don't know almost like frankenstein

746.48

environments that can occur

748.16

when you have these developers working

749.6

on a lot of different tools at a time

751.76

and

752.88

they're able to do it because they've

754.72

you know got all of these libraries and

756.399

everything in place and

759.04

they just made it work as opposed to

760.639

having to do it and reproduce it

762.959

there's sometimes it's it's going to

764.32

take longer

765.76

you know doing a one-off is almost

767.2

always going to be faster than doing

768.32

something where you need to

770.48

be able to reproduce it

772.639

so that's another concern when you get

774.48

to big complex environments

778.48

so in this little

780.24

summary

781.519

overview what do we what

783.839

should we take away from this but one

785.76

devops is pretty new you know worst case

788

it's you know 15 maybe ish years old

791.12

it's a new way to think about software

792.48

development

793.519

and it has come from though

795.92

very

798.399

consistent ways to produce software in

800.48

the past it's people have seen that we

802.56

need a development environment we need a

804.16

testing environment we need a production

805.68

environment and we need to you know keep

808

those

809.839

sort of in silos and make sure that we

812.48

they are

813.44

called clean environments in each of

815.44

those areas

817.44

so it's new it's a different way to

818.88

think about software development

820.959

it's powerful we're talking about

822.16

automation we're talking about scripting

824.399

but it can be very complex

826.88

when you look at some of these scripts

828.639

you know even just like a simple doctor

830.24

script can seem like oh this will be

832.48

great it's awesome but if you wanted to

834.72

pull in

836.16

a

837.199

you know a certain version of a language

839.199

and then certain libraries and versions

841.04

for the bat language as well you've got

843.04

to set up certain structures and maybe

845.12

import database and certain files and

848.079

it can start getting complex quickly you

850.56

will

851.44

find that yes there's

853.6

whenever you have the ability to

855.12

configure stuff

856.399

heavily

857.92

then it can take a while to configure it

860.079

properly

862.24

as we looked in the pros and cons part

863.839

you know automation can go a long way

865.76

towards helping us

867.199

but

868.48

you know and it can reduce errors

870.88

but it can also

873.6

be almost like a crutch and we have to

875.44

make sure that we are validating that

877.519

automation along the way

879.04

so that we don't automate our way into

881.68

a lot of

882.959

damage that needs to be redone

884.959

a good example in in the database world

887.36

is the idea of you know deleting one

889.36

record is one thing but if you've got

890.639

these scripts that are going out and

891.839

trying to figure out all these records

893.519

to delete you can delete your entire

894.959

database before you you know if you have

896.8

a couple typos in there at the wrong

898.32

place

900.959

this has been done a lot there are a lot

902.959

of teams and people and some very smart

906

people that are have been doing devops

908.24

for

909.12

over a decade now

910.72

but even even at this point even with

912.88

all these tools and the advances and all

915.04

the in

916.079

you will see there are

918

steady advances like this month it's

920.079

going to be different from next month as

921.44

far as what's available out there

923.44

but there's still there's a lot of pros

924.8

and cons to the world of devops

930.24

questions and comments

937.92

that was pretty good rob

942.32

yes it was but um

944.88

so you need uh pretty much in like the

947.44

skill set since this is kind of a new

950.399

i'll call it a phenomena software

952.32

development in companies like

954.48

uh

955.44

you need to train

957.839

since we kind of used in uh the old way

959.92

of developing software like uh do this

962

without the dev ops like

964.16

does somebody need the skill set for the

966.16

devops it's all it's pretty much

967.839

automatic like uh somebody can just pick

970.24

it uh just like that oh no it's

972.32

definitely a there's definitely a skill

973.92

set to it um

976.48

it is currently probably the

980.88

i think it's probably an area that is

982.88

most

985.12

uh i say impacted by certification

987.759

programs

989.04

and certificates because there's not

991.12

really

993.04

it's really it's it's young enough that

994.56

you i don't know that there's schools

996.639

that have you know dev ops degrees

1000

but there are definitely

1003.04

tool specific dev ops kinds of things

1005.44

you can get if you if you go out and do

1008.88

a certification in google or azure or

1012.24

aws

1013.519

there is going to be

1016

for the ones i've seen at least there's

1017.36

going to be some level of devops that

1020.16

that are part of that

1021.839

part of using those environments and

1023.519

being able to

1026.16

automate and configure those

1028.559

and there are definitely

1030.319

certificates that are built around a lot

1032.799

of these tools and how to

1036.319

automate and code your way into

1038.959

environments

1040.24

so it's it's a different it is a

1042.16

different tool set a different skill set

1044.559

a different experience and focus

1047.28

a lot of the the devops people have come

1049.6

out of configuration management and even

1051.76

some of the development world

1054.24

but it is not

1056

it's definitely not developer skills

1057.84

there's coding involved but it's a

1059.36

different type of coding

1061.52

that

1063.84

i don't know and i

1065.44

i don't know how much

1067.919

uh coding skills would translate over to

1070.32

devops because devops is much is almost

1073.36

it really is more of a hardware

1075.44

kind of a

1076.72

perspective on the world as opposed to

1078.64

software because you're thinking about

1081.52

memory and

1083.919

resources like that and you know space

1086.4

and

1087.44

processing and

1089.76

those kinds of things that you don't

1091.44

really think about normally in the in

1093.2

the development world

1098.4

other questions and comments

1102.96

like that said though one thing to think

1104.64

about though with the containerization

1107.12

like docker more cloud-based um

1110.48

a lot of it is

1114.08

i want to say more vm

1116.32

so you're thinking a little bit more in

1118.08

a virtual sense and you're a hardware

1119.84

sense

1120.799

but

1122

it's kind of both it's a different type

1123.919

of resource uh collection and

1126.88

kind of resource allocation so to speak

1129.76

yeah yeah there's definitely a

1132.72

a crossing of those lines you think like

1135.12

you're thinking the same way you would

1136.32

if you were building hardware it's just

1137.6

you don't have to do it physically

1138.799

you're just doing it now in a virtual

1140.96

machine

1143.039

it's the same things if you had to price

1144.64

the server

1145.84

20 years ago you're going to look at

1147.6

things like okay how many processors am

1149.52

i going to need how much memory do i

1150.64

need how much disk space do i need

1152.88

uh if you want to get complex you know

1154.48

how much

1155.52

power supply do i need to do this and

1157.76

things like that

1159.36

now

1160.88

you still have essentially a lot of

1162.08

those same concerns it's just

1164.559

you're not thinking about it from a

1166.16

hardware point of view and you're able

1167.52

to

1168.559

do it almost more a la carte than you

1170.24

would have you know in the past

1174.799

other questions and comments

1180.48

all right

1182.799

so as always thanks for listening in for

1185.52

following along uh always appreciate and

1188.24

are thankful for the time that you guys

1189.84

give

1191.039

just for us it gives us an excuse to

1193.28

learn some more stuff for yourselves to

1194.96

make the industry better to become a

1197.039

better developer

1198.64

if you have questions you can always

1200.08

shoot an email at info developernorm.com

1202.799

throw something out on the contact us

1204.24

form on developer.com

1206.159

we have a youtube channel if you look up

1208.32

developer door spot right you see we've

1210.559

got

1211.84

oh

1212.72

i don't know 200 videos out there now

1214.88

something like that growing every week

1217.76

vimeo we've got a lot of the same

1220.08

youtubers smaller or shorter format 15

1222.32

to 20 minutes typically vimeo can run an

1225.36

hour or more on some of those

1227.84

and we still have somewhere out there

1229.6

facebook.com we've got a developer page

1231.679

if you would like to you know throw

1233.2

anything out there

1234.559

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1235.44

give us feedback as well

1238.159

as always thank you for your investment

1240

in yourself and helping us with our goal

1242.559

of making every developer better

1245.6

have a good one