Detailed Notes
Welcome back to our podcast series! In this episode, we're delving into the realm of technology certifications, building upon our previous discussion on the deep versus wide skill set dilemma. Certifications have long been a hallmark in the tech industry, offering professionals a tangible validation of their expertise. However, their significance and value have evolved over time, shaping the landscape of technological proficiency.
Understanding the Evolution of Technology Certifications
We start by tracing the trajectory of certifications, from the early days of Novell to the ubiquitous presence of Microsoft and Java certifications. Each era brought forth its own set of coveted certifications, reflecting the dominant technologies of the time. Today, these span many languages and platforms, with some, like those in the security and project management realms, being almost mandatory.
Navigating the Technology Certification Landscape
Our discussion highlights the nuanced role of certifications in different career paths within technology. While some sectors demand specific ones as prerequisites, others offer more flexibility. We emphasize the importance of aligning certification pursuits with individual career goals and interests, cautioning against pursuing them solely for title enhancement.
The Value of Application and Practical Learning
Certifications serve as valuable entry points into new technologies, providing a structured framework for learning. However, we underscore the significance of practical application alongside certification acquisition. Merely obtaining these certs without actively applying the knowledge gained can lead to skill deterioration and render the certificate obsolete.
Strategies for Maximizing the Impact of Your Technology Certificates
We delve into practical strategies for effectively leveraging certifications. Emphasizing the "use it or lose it" principle, we advocate for ongoing application and reinforcement of certified skills. Moreover, we explore the benefits of aligning certification pursuits with job roles and organizational objectives, thereby ensuring relevance and career advancement.
In conclusion, technology certifications are invaluable tools for skill validation and career advancement. However, their true value lies not in the credentials themselves but in the practical application of acquired knowledge. By strategically selecting certifications aligned with career aspirations and actively applying learned skills, professionals can maximize the impact of certifications and chart a path toward sustained growth and success in the dynamic tech industry.
Feedback and questions are welcome at [email protected]. We invite listeners to connect with Develpreneur on YouTube for more insights and discussions.
Additional Resources * Benefits of Certifications and Training - https://develpreneur.com/benefits-of-certifications-and-training/
* Expired Certifications And Stale Resume Items - https://develpreneur.com/expired-certifications-and-stale-resume-items/
* Three Technical Certifications To Advance Your Career - https://develpreneur.com/three-technical-certifications-to-advance-your-career/
Transcript Text
[Music] and we're back uh let's see so we talked about deep and wide and what else let's see where we want to so it's interesting about that one because where we kind of left off on the last episode we never really got into so that conversation could kind of lead into being deep in and an understanding of a technology or being certified in a technology we could um that's not a bad way to go because I don't think I've talked certification in a while um so I think that's probably a good that would be a good one for us to take on this time is talk about what's the what's the value of certification yet again it is a topic in the book do I have it sitting here I'm trying to think it like I think it may even be a chapter in the book where do I have I know got is that the source code of happiness or the other one yeah okay yeah that is this the source code of happiness is basically the developing or book is what I call it usually um so you don't have an appendix uh is there a table of contents no there's a table of contents uh is there oh yeah here it is okay no I don't have it I guess I just talk about because I don't have I've got like steud learning solving problems you learn mentors communication so iess I have I guess I didn't have it like that specific but yeah yeah I'm actually taking with me for some light reading this weekend since I'm house sitting for the kids I'll be taking care of three dogs and a cat for the next seven days oh fun times I will not and not g to be sad all right okay so yeah let's talk certifications because that is we had that kind and we've done stuff on it before it's been a while um it's worth it to to talk about that particularly in the uh the broad versus wide concept so hello and welcome back we are Contin and we're actually sort of dovetailing from the last episode we talked about deep versus wide and your skill set in this episode we're going to talk about certifications now certifications have been around for a while and don't worry I will introduce myself in a second um certifications have been around for a while and they have had varying values but from a technology point of view they have always had a value like a monetary value to being certified now I am certifiably saying not really but hey but I'm also Rob Broadhead one of the founders of develop andur on the other side is Michael go ahead and introduce yourself hey everyone my name is Michael molash also a co-founder of develop andur and just as crazy as Rob is he is not no one is um certifications now there are if you go back there have been uh we'll call them like Seasons or or Cycles or something like that where there are C there were certain certifications that were huge in certain time frames if you go back to when I was sort of starting out certification was just starting to become a a big thing and back in the day it was about certifications initially it was novel they had all these certifications so you were a CNA and a CN and a CN XYZ and all this kind of stuff and it it was literally a way to get better titles there were things like you know you were a you could be a network engineer but only if you had a certain certification in a lot of companies and then it moved into Microsoft got into the world and started doing uh you could be a certified developer initially you were a certified uh MSP or mCP uh programmer you're Microsoft certified programmer and then they had developers and dbas and engineers and you just it's grown and then when Java came around to do certifications and so you can be a certified Java guy and you can you can see all of these languages and things and there are certifications around them if you're in the security World those those are almost required certifications if in the project manager World they are almost required certifications to have there developer world is a little different but can be in a you can be in a a company an organization or Niche where the certification really is critical or is help you take that next step I want to talk about when we talk about that Broad and deep kind of approach one certification in my mind certification does not mean you're necessarily deep like I I have used and I think I even mentioned it in the book I know I've mentioned in the past I cranked out I think I got 10 certifications in 10 weeks because I just got in the mindset I was using the uh the simulators and I would this is where it's key I would use those to learn the certification technology and I went through and I did MC Microsoft certified database administrator engineer programmer developer architect and Java developer and Java Java programmer Java developer or whatever their first two tiers of that was the reason I was able to crank through those things is one because I had a job where they said hey you're on the there's this thing called the bench at the time as a consultant where you weren't actively billable but they still kept you around and so it was a perfect time to go learn something and so uh bench very rarely exists anymore if you can get that great uh because what it did is like said hey it will be very helpful for our developer our Consultants to have certifications so me and a couple of the other guys that were there we got into this like certification frenzy where we were just going through and we were all learning at the same time we were all pushing each other and things like that with it though going through these uh the simulators what was great is that we would go through take a test just sort of like just to kick it off like what do I know okay take the test you fail at the never know that much but then go back through all the answers and learn why the answers are what they are why is it what are the ones that are if it's multiple choice why are those not the answer and for the correct answer why is that the answer with that sometimes depending on what you're dealing with you will have programming projects with as well that's what I loved about the Java certification is that they when I did it you had to build a Java app that was uh it used it had a a gooey front end so you're using um swing I think was the I got to remember but I think it was swing was their their UI you had events so you had to actually code events within that you had to be able to have like listeners so you could tie the events to the to the UI they had a database that was you had to build your own database you couldn't go you know use a template or something like that or jdbc what you did is you had a um a binary structure like ceve or beve or one of those kinds of things that you would shove all your stuff you would serialize stuff into and you put P it back out of and then you also had I think a network connectivity of some sort that you had to build so you're doing like bare metal stuff now that's all exists in libraries right now and you probably can still do it all in the core like pojos and stuff like that PL old Java objects for those you don't know um but it did get you deep the th deepish the thing is because again you've built an application you've used a lot of these tools when you're going through a certification it is at the very least going to help you get broad so if you're thinking I want to learn X whatever it is you I want to learn more about react then maybe what you want is go get a CT like look for certifications to react and go pick your you know entrylevel react certified developer programmer whatever their title is and go run through that process you don't have to run you can walk through that process take a leisurely stroll and you're going to learn as you go and it's going to help guide you particularly if you're somebody that struggles with figuring out what application should I build to utilize this language now I've talked way too much right now so I'm going to let you throw your 50 cents or more into that so that's an interesting approach to the certification process um I had a bit of a different experience than you so back when I first started trying to take the Java certifications exams uh the first one was a hot mess uh we're talking before Java 2 Java one uh like 09 or whatever the uh Elm and Oak and all that was pre-day those certifications were ugly I mean they were so technical or so trippy that you I don't care how many times I took it I could never pass the pre- modernized version of java uh and their pass ratio and they were proud of this it was something like 20% would pass the certification exam so if you could pass this supposedly you were a Java Superstar which was a joke because most of the people that I talked to that were able to pass that literally spent nothing more than three months in a book just memorizing content just so they could pass the certification they came out of that knowing nothing they couldn't even barely write the code so that was one of the other concerns with certifications that I have I spend more time in training classes versus certifications because I would rather go teach myself by writing an application versus go study up and be booksmart on the flip side of that years later I've taught multiple Java boot camps to teach people how to take the certification exams and I find it funny that there are certain types of people not necessarily photographic memories but just are very good at remembering what they read or remembering what they see and we had some people come through our course that weren't even developers we're talking lawyers accountants whatever they did not know programming they were being shifted um to learn how to use software how to write macros and things like that so they're like well let's learn Java and the funny part was almost every single one of the accountants passed the certification exam at the end of the boot camp maybe three out of 20 could actually write code so there is a distinction between being certified and being good at what you do yeah boot camps is a great uh a segue that we'll probably have another conversation about that at some point because that I have found that when I've taken courses in a language not necessar I'm usually it not because I want to be certified it will help me get there but it's really just more to to utiliz to have an application for that language no pun intended but to go through use learn how to code in that language because there's a difference between understanding the syntax and understanding the the best pra and how that language should be used and there's this is something that I learned when I was going through the um the python training series that is again you know out there in our developing or out on our YouTube world you know doing what was essentially going to be you know I think it was like 12 to 15 minute episodes sometimes it would take me 2 hours because I be digging through stuff it's like oh that's not how I've ever done it I wonder how how does that compare to how I usually would tackle this and there were a lot of things like that there were areas of the language that I was like I don't I don't ever need to use that there's value in them because now I'll look at some of them and go oh yeah I can do it that and that's in some cases more useful than whatever the other you know approach to doing it particularly when you look at all the different types of loops and particularly when there's uh all these different functions that you can work on sets and Collections and maps and things like that and understand how all of those work and where the strengths and and weaknesses are and then in get into the world of object oriented whether you you know how to actually do archit do the architecture around creating a an objectoriented solution or even a database you know things like that where it's like where do you where do you where do you under architect where do you utilize the language where do you not where do you take advantage of some of the structures and where do you say I don't really need to do that because there's a there's a better way and those things when you get into a class I think will help you quite a bit but I think in the boot camp world it's it does feel like too often and maybe not I don't want to take too broad a brush but there are definitely people that go through the boot camp just to be like I just get through it get certification to be done and then that's going to get me a job and I'll be able to go do it and that cuses problems because then they they will get a job and they suck at it because they didn't learn how to you know be a developer this is why it's we're building better developers not more coders or something like that because we do see a difference between just writing code and developing a solution follow up on that so I think you touched on where I was I almost interjected at one point through that um so one of the things that I find certifications are useful is if you're learning a new technology start with the certification start with the hello world figure out the entry path for that certification now if you're at the beginning of your career I don't recommend going out like Rob said and uh go learn and get certified in like 12 different things before you actually start applying it the moment you get a certification something figure out how to start applying it figure out how to start using it if you just get 20 certifications and you've just gone through like a small vocational school and you have their very basic skills but you have all these certifications that you look great on paper but you can't do a lick of what you say you can do you're going to fail very quickly be very stressed out and not necessarily have to JW hop but you're going to build up a bad reputation and could get blacklisted and then depending upon where you live and what industries you're in you don't want that so be conscious of the certifications they are very beneficial boot camps are very helpful they almost go hand inand there's a lot of places online YouTube videos developer n videos start again just start with the basics start with a simple certification and then walk your way through it I just had to take one recently for my job which we didn't understand why we had to take this one but we had to basically take the basic AWS uh Cloud Foundation certification which is more a business certific if ation than a technical certification it was more for learning the tech speak to talk about AWS all the different Services the different components of it and I was a little petrified because I'm like this isn't a programming certification why am I having to learn this it it's a lot of jargon and actually as I started reading it and learning it I was like I already know this this isn't so bad so there is a little bit of fear with certifications there's a little bit of misconception with certifications but as as a developer or as someone learning or wanting to grow in this industry kind of pick up an idea a language whatever it is you want to learn look at what certifications are offered start with the simplest first and then tie that to a road map of learning that technology so you can kind of do it in parallel yeah I follow up on that is that it's regardless of what you're learning and how you're learning it is there is a use it or lose it fast to stuff and so yeah like I look at this a lot of times when I'm putting stuff together on a resume because I've got literally I they like four or five dozen languages that I can I can look at projects and say yes I did that I did that I did that I did that I did that and I can vaguely in some cases remember is or I could go back to the look at it and you give me a little time I can knock the rust off and I can figure it out one do I want to two the only reason I that only reason that has any staying pow is because I did it it's not that I did the certification it's that I learned the language and then built something in it so that helped solidify some of that knowledge in my head and a lot of it becomes stuff where it's as we've talked about when you go where it allows you to go broader is because you understand the concepts you understand that there is what the idea of like the phrases I've used you understand what sets and Collections and the object-oriented terms and you know iterators and the pattern terms and those kinds of things is that you understand what you understand the language of patterns and anti patterns and F procedures and objectoriented stuff and database related stuff and like all of these things that we may talk about all the time as developers but when you're starting out it's much more complicated because you don't know all those terms you you know you haven't been exposed to them it will help you have that common language but again if you're drinking from the fire hose and you turn around you don't use any of that experience or that knowledge you're going to end up losing it because it's not going to stick if you get ification and you turn around and apply that then it's going to help that stick I agree it's like if you go get 15 highly certified and all of that stuff but if you don't use it you're going to forget about it so there were things within almost no time that I was and AWS is a good example I went I did it certification a couple years ago and remember some of the things but a lot of it's like I'm just going to go look it up on Amazon because and a lot of it's changed by you know since then anyways and of the certifications and that's why I I was actually very pleased when I started seeing that most the vast majority of certifications I see out there now have an expiration date so it's like technically I've yeah I've got I don't know 15 or 20 certifications over the years but what I have right now is Big F because they've all expired somewhere along the way because I didn't feel like renewing them I mean it was like stuff like I was a Microsoft certified programmer back in like the early late 90s and then I updated it and I was like a Microsoft 2003 developer and then I haven't touched it since which is now over years I digress a little bit okay A Lot the key of this is utilizing those certifications because then the knowledge is really what you want you don't the piece of paper doesn't matter the knowledge and the application of that knowledge does and that's where it's going to be important to you so if you're driving for a certification which is great it's a great way to learn a language and to really have a a formal formal understanding of that language but make sure that you have on your road map a followup that's some sort of application or way that you're going to use that so you can really help drive that home closing thoughts so I would like to close with this if you are starting out or even at a midlevel point in your career you're already doing something you're or you're learning something on the job a lot of companies today will actually pay for you to get certified in whatever it is that you're working on utilize that get someone else to pay you to get certified in what you're already doing the other benefit of that too is if you like the organization you're with typically if they have that and they and you pass these and they invested in you typically they'll keep you around for a while uh if you don't like it I recommend finding something else you do like and focus on that and look at certifications in that don't go down a rabbit hole that you're going to hate or you don't like doing uh that's just a recipe for disaster stick to what you know stick to what you like and get certified in those particular areas yeah I think that's just that my last thought on that is the worst thing is to be heavily certified in something that you hate to do that's what I talked about earlier I said there's all these languages and environments that I'll look back on and there's yeah it's nice to have those on a resume to go get a job but there's times where I'm taking that off because I do not ever want to see that again I did not enjoy doing it no offense for example to the Ruby people out there it's like Ruby and Ruby on Rails is sort of cool but it is such a nightmare for me of like collecting all that make sure all the libraries are right and all that kind of stuff and it's because I don't know the tools because I know Java's got that problem and Net's got that problem and Python's got everybody's got that problem these days but if you're not comfortable with it if you don't use it perfect example then you're going to struggle with it a lot more than you should so you know you may want to push your way out of that and get to something you enjoy doing I'm going to allow you to get something you enjoy doing even more than listen to us can't imagine that even exists and we're going to do something more enjoyable than looking at each other on on this on the zoom calls and such and we're going to wrap this one up so we are not done with the season though we're going to continue going through this this has just been uh it's been cathartic and educational for us as we've gone through some of these pieces it's really helpful sometimes to have that talking through a problem and and getting that other set of eyes on it if you would like that from us feel free to shoot us an email at info develop ur.com check us out at the website developer.com uh you can check out Invision qa. or Herby sns.com or check us out on YouTube Just wherever you can find developing or stuff check us out send us questions send us feedback send us comments we would love to just continue these discussions with you or continue them on through uh comments and likes and stuff like that on our blogs and such that being said go out there and have yourselfself a great day a great week and we will talk to you next time any bonus material you want to throw out on this yeah one of the things I we we talked about it during the podcast but the other thing I'd like to kind of stress again for those of you that do want to get certified or look at certifications for your particular career in the last episode we talked about your road map planning out ahead and figuring out what you want to do down down the road and kind of being Broad and deep in your particular uh area as you do that look and see what certifications stack with that because there are many different certifications that are very technical but there are some that are very broad like Rob said project managers there could be like Network managers just different areas and different um sectors have different focus and certifications so you could potentially find a certification in a particular role not necessarily technology but your technology could be applied to that yeah I think that's very key particularly when you're starting out and I've actually I still do it sometimes I now sometimes I bail on it so for example I was really doing a lot of python stuff there's a lot out there and I just was like I I was enjoying the projects I was doing that work and I said you know what I think I want to get a a python certification and so that turned into a whole series of of YouTube videos where I just sort of like clicked record well I was work walking through the official python certification syllabus and like well what should I know if I'm going to go get certified so I went through all of that stuff I've got samples I've got codes I've all of this cool stuff and then I never followed through and actually got the certification however I got more because I was walking through like really learning those pieces and that's the kind of thing if you're starting out is just if there's something you see it's like I want to do more of this I want to do more frontend work backend work I want to do more in this language or that language that environment look for certifications like Michael said and start pursuing it because even if even if you don't get all the way through certification you can start looking for jobs and say hey I am working on a certification in this and it's going to help you if you're working on it it's going to help you get more comfortable with that language or that environment because now you're you're making that more a regular part of your life even if actually I think almost more importantly if it's not in your day job if you're in your day job doing something you don't like and you see a a path you want to take that you're going to start getting certified so you can go down that path getting certified in that just going through that process is going to now have you learning the language understanding that so you can talk to that new technology or environment and go win that job thoughts yeah the last thought I'd like to bring on this is so flip it around so what if you're more the midlevel like you you've been doing this for a couple years you're starting to learn it you're you're in it you've got say five years on your belt in Java should you go back and take the entrylevel Java certification exam to me I would say no because I've already learned that and the Technology's probably already moved ahead so for me to go back and take the next version I would have to basically go back and do a lot of dredging through the basics again that I'm past that I need to learn the more advanced stuff I need or just the basics um to me following up on some certifications as you age into your career don't make sense but if you're going into new sectors within your career or learning something new then I would say continue to push forward for newer uh certifications in other sectors I do think that's a I guess I'll follow up to that as well sort of a wrap up on that is the idea of sometimes you're going to have prerequisites so if you wanted to now start getting certifications you may have to go back and start from Scrat you know the beginning level stuff but sometimes looking at how certifications progress what their progress their prerequisites are and then what they sort of grow into is a way for you to look at well okay how do I want to advance my career look at maybe you know if you're five or 10 years in and say well what are the certifications I probably could I should probably already have because I've done that a lot and then figure out where where did they stop and then what are the certifications you haven't gotten yet and that if nothing else you can go look at the syllabus and go oh I should go learn that because that looks fun or where my career should be progressing or you know there's there's a lot of that kind of information that you can get that goes back to yes certifications are nice to have it's sort of cool little sheet of paper or icon or whatever you get to do with it but the knowledge behind it the process behind it a lot of times is much more valuable because now you're you've got something that it's a it's a road map for you to put on your road map on your career road map and say I want to advance in this area go look at a certification even if you're not set up to take the certification find the materials find the syllabus whatever it is and use that like that was perfect example is what I did with python is I grabbed a syllabus and said what would be an entrylevel certification I know a lot that stuff but I'm like you know what there's a lot of syntax and a lot of language Concepts that I want to make sure I've seen them how does python do it so that's how I did it and you'll see the same thing in Java you're going to see a lot of certifications out there because there's there's broad ones and then there's very specific ones and if you want to go in a certain area you can probably find the certification that like suits your next steps and go pursue that even if it's unofficially because I do think that's it's a great training guide if you're especially if you struggle figuring out how do I take the next steps in my career final thoughts final final thoughts yeah just you know if you are new to your career advanced in your career like Rob said the certifications can act as a guideline for what path you want to take the other thing is again look at the Technologies look at their road maps and see where they're at in their process because sometimes jumping out to take a certification it might make more sense to wait six months take that time and prep for the next certification because then you're going to be certified for the next five years versus being certified for a year and then have to do it again awesome parting thoughts and I think that'll wrap it up so um as always we're going to continue just cranking this stuff out you can check us out on our obviously on this channel feel free to check out the podcast too because it is a little different from what you're going to you know you get from this side because it gets a little different editing and things like that uh if you have ideas recommendations comments anything like that definitely there plus all the other places we've talked about and I just want to thank you guys GS peoples all you out there you peeps Mente all of that kind of stuff don't complain if you're you speak Spanish and I suck at it sorry um you know all just thank you so much for your time for hanging out with us and we will be back again same developer n Channel same developer no show and all that kind of good stuff same backdrops and we'll check you guys out next time until then have a great one [Music]
Transcript Segments
[Music]
and we're
back uh let's see so we talked about
deep and
wide and what else let's
see where we want
to so it's interesting about that one
because where we kind of left off on the
last episode we never really got
into so that conversation could kind of
lead into being deep in and an
understanding of a technology or being
certified in a
technology we
could
um
that's not a bad way to go because I
don't think I've talked certification in
a while um so I think that's probably a
good that would be a good one for us to
take on this time is talk about what's
the what's the value of certification
yet again it is a topic in the book do I
have it sitting here I'm trying to think
it like I think it may even be a chapter
in the book where do I have I know got
is that the source code of happiness or
the other one yeah okay
yeah that is this the source code of
happiness is basically the developing or
book is what I call it
usually um so you don't have an appendix
uh is there a table of contents no
there's a table of contents uh is there
oh yeah here it is okay no I don't have
it I guess I just talk about because I
don't have I've got like steud learning
solving
problems you learn mentors communication
so iess I have I guess I didn't have it
like that specific
but yeah yeah I'm actually taking with
me for some light reading this weekend
since I'm house sitting for the kids
I'll be taking care of three dogs and a
cat for the next seven days oh fun times
I will
not and not g to be sad all right okay
so yeah let's talk certifications
because that is we had that kind and
we've done stuff on it before it's been
a while um it's worth it to to talk
about that particularly in
the uh the broad versus wide concept so
hello and welcome back we are Contin and
we're actually sort of dovetailing from
the last episode we talked about deep
versus wide and your skill set in this
episode we're going to talk about
certifications now certifications have
been around for a while
and don't worry I will introduce myself
in a second um certifications have been
around for a while and they have had
varying values but from a technology
point of view they have always had a
value like a monetary value to being
certified now I am certifiably saying
not really but hey but I'm also Rob
Broadhead one of the founders of develop
andur on the other side is Michael go
ahead and introduce yourself
hey everyone my name is Michael molash
also a co-founder of develop andur and
just as crazy as Rob is he is not no one
is um
certifications now there are if you go
back there have been uh we'll call them
like Seasons or or Cycles or something
like that where there are C there were
certain certifications that were huge in
certain time frames if you go back to
when I was sort of starting out
certification was just starting to
become a a big thing and back in the day
it was about certifications initially it
was novel they had all these
certifications so you were a CNA and a
CN and a CN XYZ and all this kind of
stuff and it it was
literally a way to get better titles
there were things like you know you were
a you could be a network engineer but
only if you had a certain certification
in a lot of companies and then it moved
into Microsoft got into the world and
started doing uh you could be a
certified developer initially you were a
certified uh MSP or mCP uh programmer
you're Microsoft certified programmer
and then they had developers and dbas
and engineers and you just it's grown
and then when Java came around to do
certifications and so you can be a
certified Java guy and you can you can
see all of these languages and things
and there are certifications around them
if you're in the security World those
those are almost required certifications
if in the project manager World they are
almost required certifications to have
there developer world is a little
different but can be in a you can be in
a a company an organization or Niche
where the certification really is
critical or is help you take that next
step I want to talk about when we talk
about that Broad and deep kind of
approach one certification in my mind
certification does not mean you're
necessarily deep like I I have used and
I think I even mentioned it in the book
I know I've mentioned in the past I
cranked out I think I got 10
certifications in 10 weeks because I
just got in the mindset I was using the
uh the simulators and I would this is
where it's key I would use those to
learn the certification technology and I
went through and I did MC Microsoft
certified database administrator
engineer programmer developer architect
and Java developer and Java Java
programmer Java developer or whatever
their first two tiers of that was the
reason I was able to crank through those
things is one because I had a job where
they said hey you're on the there's this
thing called the bench at the time as a
consultant where you weren't actively
billable but they still kept you around
and so it was a perfect time to go learn
something and
so uh bench very rarely exists anymore
if you can get that great uh because
what it did is like said hey it will be
very helpful for our developer our
Consultants to have certifications so me
and a couple of the other guys that were
there we got into this like
certification frenzy where we were just
going through and we were all learning
at the same time we were all pushing
each other and things like that with it
though going through these uh the
simulators what was great is that we
would go through take a test just sort
of like just to kick it off like what do
I know okay take the test you fail at
the never know that much but then go
back through all the answers and learn
why the answers are what they are why is
it what are the ones that are if it's
multiple choice why are those not the
answer and for the correct answer why is
that the answer with that sometimes
depending on what you're dealing with
you will have programming projects with
as well that's what I loved about the
Java certification is that they when I
did it you had to build a Java app that
was uh it used it had a a gooey front
end so you're using um swing I think was
the I got to remember but I think it was
swing was their their UI you had events
so you had to actually code events
within that you had to be able to have
like listeners so you could tie the
events to the to the UI they had a
database that was you had to build your
own database you couldn't go you know
use a template or something like that or
jdbc what you did is you had a um a
binary structure like ceve or beve or
one of those kinds of things that you
would shove all your stuff you would
serialize stuff into and you put P it
back out of and then you also had I
think a network connectivity of some
sort that you had to build so you're
doing like bare metal stuff now that's
all exists in libraries right now and
you probably can still do it all in the
core like pojos and stuff like that PL
old Java objects for those you don't
know um but it did get you deep the th
deepish the thing is because again
you've built an application you've used
a lot of these tools when you're going
through a certification it is at the
very least going to help you get broad
so if you're thinking I want to learn X
whatever it is you I want to learn more
about react then maybe what you want is
go get a CT like look for certifications
to react and go pick your you know
entrylevel react certified developer
programmer whatever their title is and
go run through that process you don't
have to run you can walk through that
process take a leisurely stroll and
you're going to learn as you go and it's
going to help guide you particularly if
you're somebody that struggles with
figuring out what application should I
build to utilize this language now I've
talked way too much right now so I'm
going to let you throw your 50 cents or
more into that so that's an interesting
approach to the certification process um
I had a bit of a different experience
than you so back when I first started
trying to take the Java certifications
exams uh the first one was a hot mess uh
we're talking before Java 2 Java one uh
like 09 or whatever the uh Elm and Oak
and all that was pre-day those
certifications were ugly I mean they
were so technical or so trippy that you
I don't care how many times I took it I
could never pass the pre- modernized
version of java uh and their pass ratio
and they were proud of this it was
something like 20% would pass the
certification exam so if you could pass
this supposedly you were a Java
Superstar which was a joke because most
of the people that I talked to that were
able to pass that literally spent
nothing more than three months in a book
just memorizing content just so they
could pass the certification they came
out of that knowing nothing they
couldn't even barely write the code so
that was one of the
other concerns with certifications that
I have I spend more
time in training classes versus
certifications because I would rather go
teach myself by writing an application
versus go study up and be
booksmart on the flip side of that years
later I've taught multiple Java boot
camps to teach people how to take the
certification exams and I find it funny
that there are certain types of people
not necessarily photographic memories
but just are very good at remembering
what they read or remembering what they
see and we had some people come through
our course that weren't even developers
we're talking lawyers accountants
whatever they did not know programming
they were being shifted um to learn how
to use software how to write macros and
things like that so they're like well
let's learn Java and the funny part was
almost every single one of the
accountants passed the certification
exam at the end of the boot camp maybe
three out of 20 could actually write
code so there is a distinction between
being certified and being good at what
you do yeah boot camps is a great uh a
segue that we'll probably have another
conversation about that at some point
because that I have found that when I've
taken courses in a language not necessar
I'm usually it not because I want to be
certified it will help me get there but
it's really just more to to utiliz to
have an application for that language no
pun intended but to go through use learn
how to code in that language because
there's a difference between
understanding the syntax and
understanding the the best pra and how
that language should be used and there's
this is something that I learned when I
was going through the um the python
training series that is again you know
out there in our developing or out on
our YouTube world you know doing what
was essentially going to be you know I
think it was like 12 to 15 minute
episodes sometimes it would take me 2
hours
because I be digging through stuff it's
like oh that's not how I've ever done it
I wonder how how does that compare to
how I usually would tackle this and
there were a lot of things like that
there were areas of the language that I
was like I don't I don't ever need to
use that there's value in them because
now I'll look at some of them and go oh
yeah I can do it that and that's in some
cases more useful than whatever the
other you know approach to doing it
particularly when you look at all the
different types of loops and
particularly when there's uh all these
different functions that you can work on
sets and Collections and maps and things
like that and understand how all of
those work and where the strengths and
and weaknesses are and then in get into
the world of object oriented whether you
you know how to actually
do archit do the architecture around
creating a an objectoriented solution or
even a database you know things like
that where it's like where do you where
do you where do you under architect
where do you utilize the language where
do you not where do you take advantage
of some of the structures and where do
you say I don't really need to do that
because there's a there's a better way
and those things when you get into a
class I think will help you quite a bit
but I think in the boot camp world it's
it does feel like too often and maybe
not I don't want to take too broad a
brush but there are definitely people
that go through the boot camp just to be
like I just get through it get
certification to be done and then that's
going to get me a job and I'll be able
to go do it and that cuses problems
because then they they will get a job
and they suck at it because they didn't
learn how to you know be a developer
this is why it's we're building better
developers not more coders or something
like that because we do see a difference
between just writing code and developing
a solution follow up on that so I think
you touched on where I was I almost
interjected at one point through that um
so one of the things that I find
certifications are useful
is if you're learning a new technology
start with the certification start with
the hello world figure out the entry
path for that certification now if
you're at the beginning of your career I
don't recommend going out like Rob said
and uh go learn and get certified in
like 12 different things before you
actually start applying it the moment
you get a certification something figure
out how to start applying it figure out
how to start using it if you just get 20
certifications and you've just gone
through like a small vocational school
and you have their very basic skills but
you have all these certifications that
you look great on paper but you can't do
a lick of what you say you can do you're
going to fail very quickly be very
stressed out
and not necessarily have to JW hop but
you're going to build up a bad
reputation and could get blacklisted and
then depending upon where you live and
what industries you're in you don't want
that so be conscious of the
certifications they are very beneficial
boot camps are very helpful they almost
go hand inand there's a lot of places
online YouTube videos developer n videos
start again just start with the basics
start with a simple certification and
then walk your way through it I just had
to take one recently for my job which we
didn't understand why we had to take
this one but we had to basically take
the basic AWS uh Cloud Foundation
certification which is more a business
certific if ation than a technical
certification it was more for learning
the tech speak to talk about AWS all the
different Services the different
components of it and I was a little
petrified because I'm like this isn't a
programming certification why am I
having to learn this it it's a lot of
jargon and actually as I started reading
it and learning it I was like I already
know this this isn't so bad so there is
a little bit of fear with certifications
there's a little bit of misconception
with certifications but as as a
developer or as someone learning or
wanting to grow in this
industry kind of pick up an idea a
language whatever it is you want to
learn look at what certifications are
offered start with the simplest first
and then tie that to a road map of
learning that technology so you can kind
of do it in
parallel yeah I follow up on that is
that it's regardless of what you're
learning and how you're learning it is
there is a use it or lose it fast to
stuff and so yeah like I look at this a
lot of times when I'm putting stuff
together on a resume because I've got
literally I they like four or five dozen
languages that I can I can look at
projects and say yes I did that I did
that I did that I did that I did that
and I can vaguely in some cases remember
is or I could go back to the look at it
and you give me a little time I can
knock the rust off and I can figure it
out one do I want to
two the only reason I that only reason
that has any staying pow is because I
did it it's not that I did the
certification it's that I learned the
language and then built something in it
so that helped solidify some of that
knowledge in my head and a lot of it
becomes stuff where it's as we've talked
about when you go where it allows you to
go broader is because you understand the
concepts you understand that there is
what the idea of like the phrases I've
used you understand what sets and
Collections and the object-oriented
terms and you know iterators and the
pattern terms and those kinds of things
is that you understand what you
understand the language of patterns and
anti patterns and F procedures and
objectoriented stuff and database
related stuff and like all of these
things that we may talk about all the
time as developers but when you're
starting out it's much more complicated
because you don't know all those terms
you you know you haven't been exposed to
them it will help you have that common
language but again if you're drinking
from the fire hose and you turn around
you don't use any of that experience or
that knowledge you're going to end up
losing it because it's not going to
stick if you get ification and you turn
around and apply that then it's going to
help that stick I agree it's like if you
go get
15 highly certified and all of that
stuff but if you don't use it you're
going to forget about it so there were
things within almost no time that I was
and AWS is a good example I went I did
it certification a couple years ago and
remember some of the things but a lot of
it's like I'm just going to go look it
up on Amazon because and a lot of it's
changed by you know since then anyways
and of the certifications and that's why
I I was actually very pleased when I
started seeing that most the vast
majority of certifications I see out
there now have an expiration date so
it's like technically I've yeah I've got
I don't know 15 or 20 certifications
over the years but what I have right now
is Big F because they've all expired
somewhere along the way because I didn't
feel like renewing them I mean it was
like stuff like I was a Microsoft
certified programmer back in like the
early late 90s and then I updated it and
I was like a Microsoft 2003 developer
and then I haven't touched it since
which is now over
years I digress a little bit okay A Lot
the key of this is utilizing those
certifications because then the
knowledge is really what you want you
don't the piece of paper doesn't matter
the knowledge and the application of
that knowledge does and that's where
it's going to be important to you so if
you're driving for a certification which
is great it's a great way to learn a
language and to really have a a formal
formal understanding of that language
but make sure that you have on your road
map a followup that's some sort of
application or way that you're going to
use that so you can really help drive
that home closing thoughts so I would
like to close with this if you are
starting out or even at a midlevel point
in your
career you're already doing something
you're or you're learning something on
the job a lot of companies today will
actually pay for you to get certified in
whatever it is that you're working on
utilize that get someone else to pay you
to get certified in what you're already
doing the other benefit of that too is
if you like the organization you're with
typically if they have that and they and
you pass these and they invested in you
typically they'll keep you around for a
while uh if you don't like it I
recommend finding something else you do
like and focus on that and look at
certifications in that don't go down a
rabbit hole that you're going to hate or
you don't like doing uh that's just a
recipe for disaster stick to what you
know stick to what you like and get
certified in those particular
areas yeah I think that's just that my
last thought on that is the worst thing
is to be heavily certified in something
that you hate to do that's what I talked
about earlier I said there's all these
languages and environments that I'll
look back on and there's yeah it's nice
to have those on a resume to go get a
job but there's times where I'm taking
that off because I do not ever want to
see that again I did not enjoy doing it
no offense for example to the Ruby
people out there it's like Ruby and Ruby
on Rails is sort of cool but it is such
a nightmare for me of like collecting
all that make sure all the libraries are
right and all that kind of stuff and
it's because I don't know the tools
because I know Java's got that problem
and Net's got that problem and Python's
got everybody's got that problem these
days but if you're not comfortable with
it if you don't use it perfect example
then you're going to struggle with it a
lot more than you should so you know you
may want to push your way out of that
and get to something you enjoy doing I'm
going to allow you to get something you
enjoy doing even more than listen to us
can't imagine that even exists and we're
going to do something more enjoyable
than looking at each other on on this on
the zoom calls and such and we're going
to wrap this one up so we are not done
with the season though we're going to
continue going through this this has
just been uh it's been cathartic and
educational for us as we've gone through
some of these pieces it's really helpful
sometimes to have that talking through a
problem and and getting that other set
of eyes on it if you would like that
from us feel free to shoot us an email
at info develop ur.com check us out at
the website developer.com uh you can
check out Invision qa. or Herby sns.com
or check us out on YouTube Just wherever
you can find developing or stuff check
us out send us questions send us
feedback send us comments we would love
to just continue these discussions with
you or continue them on through uh
comments and likes and stuff like that
on our blogs and such that being said go
out there and have yourselfself a great
day a great week and we will talk to you
next
time any bonus material you want to
throw out on
this yeah one of the things I we we
talked about it during the podcast but
the other thing I'd like to kind of
stress again for those of you that do
want to get certified or look at
certifications for your particular
career in the last episode we talked
about your road map planning out ahead
and figuring out what you want to do
down down the road and kind of being
Broad and deep in your particular uh
area as you do that look and see what
certifications stack with that because
there are many different certifications
that are very technical but there are
some that are very broad like Rob said
project managers there could be like
Network managers just different areas
and different um sectors have different
focus and certifications so you could
potentially find a certification in a
particular role not necessarily
technology but your technology could be
applied to
that yeah I think
that's very key particularly when you're
starting out and I've actually I still
do it sometimes I now sometimes I bail
on it so for example I was really doing
a lot of python stuff there's a lot out
there and I just was like I I was
enjoying the projects I was doing that
work and I said you know what I think I
want to get a a python certification and
so that turned into a whole series of of
YouTube videos where I just sort of like
clicked record well I was work walking
through the official python
certification syllabus and like well
what should I know if I'm going to go
get certified so I went through all of
that stuff I've got samples I've got
codes I've all of this cool stuff and
then I never followed through and
actually got the
certification however I got more because
I was walking through like really
learning those pieces and that's the
kind of thing if you're starting out is
just if there's something you see it's
like I want to do more of this I want to
do more frontend work backend work I
want to do more in this language or that
language that environment look for
certifications like Michael said and
start pursuing it because even
if even if you don't get all the way
through certification you can start
looking for jobs and say hey I am
working on a certification in this and
it's going to help you if you're working
on it it's going to help you get more
comfortable with that language or that
environment because now you're you're
making that more a regular part of your
life even if actually I think almost
more importantly if it's not in your day
job if you're in your day job doing
something you don't like and you see a a
path you want to take that you're going
to start getting certified so you can go
down that path getting certified in that
just going through that process is going
to now have you learning the language
understanding that so you can talk to
that new technology or environment and
go win that job
thoughts yeah the last thought I'd like
to bring on this is so flip it around so
what if you're more the midlevel like
you you've been doing this for a couple
years you're starting to learn it you're
you're in it you've got say five years
on your belt in Java should you go back
and take the entrylevel Java
certification exam to me I would say no
because I've already learned that and
the Technology's probably already moved
ahead so for me to go back and take the
next version I would have to basically
go back and do a lot of dredging through
the basics again that I'm past that I
need to learn the more advanced stuff I
need or just the basics um to
me following up on some certifications
as you age into your career don't make
sense but if you're going into new
sectors within your career or learning
something new then I would say continue
to push forward for newer uh
certifications in other sectors I do
think that's a I guess I'll follow up to
that as well sort of a wrap up on that
is the idea of sometimes you're going to
have prerequisites so if you wanted to
now start getting certifications you may
have to go back and start from Scrat you
know the beginning level stuff but
sometimes looking at how certifications
progress what their progress their
prerequisites are and then what they
sort of grow into is a way for you to
look at well okay how do I want to
advance my career look at maybe you know
if you're five or 10 years in and say
well what are the certifications I
probably could I should probably already
have because I've done that a lot and
then figure out where where did they
stop and then what are the
certifications you haven't gotten yet
and that if nothing else you can go look
at the syllabus and go oh I should go
learn that because that looks fun or
where my career should be progressing or
you know there's there's a lot of that
kind of information that you can get
that goes back to yes certifications are
nice to have it's sort of cool little
sheet of paper or icon or whatever you
get to do with it but the knowledge
behind it the process behind it a lot of
times is much more valuable
because now you're you've got something
that it's a it's a road map for you to
put on your road map on your career road
map and say I want to advance in this
area go look at a certification even if
you're not set up to take the
certification find the materials find
the syllabus whatever it is and use that
like that was perfect example is what I
did with python is I grabbed a syllabus
and said what would be an entrylevel
certification I know a lot that stuff
but I'm like you know what there's a lot
of syntax and a lot of language Concepts
that I want to make sure I've seen them
how does python do it so that's how I
did it and you'll see the same thing in
Java you're going to see a lot of
certifications out there because there's
there's broad ones and then there's very
specific ones and if you want to go in a
certain area you can probably find the
certification that like suits your next
steps and go pursue that even if it's
unofficially because I do think that's
it's a great training guide if you're
especially if you struggle figuring out
how do I take the next steps in my
career final thoughts final final
thoughts yeah just you know if you are
new to your career advanced in your
career like Rob said the certifications
can act as a guideline for what path you
want to take the other thing is again
look at the Technologies look at their
road maps and see where they're at in
their process because sometimes jumping
out to take a certification it might
make more sense to wait six months take
that time and prep for the next
certification because then you're going
to be certified for the next five years
versus being certified for a year and
then have to do it
again awesome parting thoughts and I
think that'll wrap it up so um as always
we're going to continue just cranking
this stuff out you can check us out on
our obviously on this channel feel free
to check out the podcast too because it
is a little different from what you're
going to you know you get from this side
because it gets a little different
editing and things like that uh if you
have ideas recommendations comments
anything like that definitely there plus
all the other places we've talked about
and I just want to thank you guys GS
peoples all you out there you peeps
Mente all of that kind of stuff don't
complain if you're you speak Spanish and
I suck at it sorry um you know all just
thank you so much for your time for
hanging out with us and we will be back
again
same developer n Channel same developer
no show and all that kind of good stuff
same backdrops and we'll check you guys
out next time until then have a great
one
[Music]