📺 Develpreneur YouTube Episode

Video + transcript

Developer Career Growth: Breaking Through Stagnation with AI

2025-08-21 •Youtube

Detailed Notes

Are you feeling stuck in your career as a developer? You’re not alone. In this episode of Building Better Developers with AI, Rob Broadhead and Michael Meloche revisit the topic of breaking through career plateaus with fresh insights and AI-driven strategies.

We discuss: * How to recognize career stagnation before it derails your growth * Why developer career growth is about more than just coding * Practical strategies like stretch projects, side hustles, and mentorship * How AI is shaping the future of developer roles * A weekly challenge to help you take control of your growth today

👉 Episode Challenge: Identify one area where your growth has stalled and take one intentional step forward this week.

🔗 Subscribe to Building Better Developers for more insights on technology, growth, and thriving as a modern developer.

*Follow-us on:*

* [email protected] * https://develpreneur.com/ * https://www.youtube.com/@develpreneur * https://facebook.com/Develpreneur * https://x.com/develpreneur * https://www.linkedin.com/company/develpreneur/

00:00 Preshow & Setup 02:12 Episode Start: Introduction & Overview 04:10 Podcast & Host Introductions 06:30 Good Thing / Bad Thing 08:45 Why Developer Career Growth Matters 12:20 Recognizing Career Growth Roadblocks 15:15 Growth Beyond Coding 18:30 Michael’s Story: Breaking Out of Stagnation 22:00 Strategies to Accelerate Developer Career Growth 26:10 The Role of AI in Career Development 29:20 Side Hustles, Mentorship & Teaching 31:30 Episode Challenge & Wrap-Up

Transcript Text
[Music]
All right. So, let me go back to Oh, we
just hit record and we are going to find
this episode
title podcast ideas. Here we go.
Breaking through career plateaus tips to
accelerate your growth as a developer.
Wow, this will be a fun one. Um, let's
see.
>> We must have done these close to GLS
last year.
>> Oh, I don't know when we did this.
I would have to look at how far back
this was.
>> Oh, three seasons
might have been
>> because we had I mean we've done a lot
of that kind of stuff. I think I trying
to remember what came out of GLS last
year.
Episode title, Breaking the Plateau.
Level up your dev career like it's the
final boss.
[Laughter]
>> All right. It's going to be fun. Oh, no.
No, you don't get to share. Thanks for
mentioning that because I wasn't about
to.
There's you. Let's do this one.
We go. Cool.
>> And let's do this. Let's do this. And
we're going to do our little countdown.
What was the original one? That's what
it was. We're going to go th Oh, no.
Ola. We are back again. We are
continuing our season where we are doing
a prior season doing all of our uh
topics that had to do with becoming a
better developer basically and now we're
doing it with AI. We're taking those
topics and we are putting them through
AI. We're getting its results, its
recommendations, and we're basically
telling it what we think about it. We're
adding on to uh that conversation just
like we've added a new guest to talk
about that subject. So far, it's been
working really well. We'll see how it
goes today. Uh this time, we're going to
talk about breaking through career
plateaus, tips to accelerate your growth
as a developer. But before we do that,
this is the developer podcast. Building
better developers is also our name. I am
one of the founders. My name is Rob
Broadhead. I'm a founder of developer,
but also the founder of RB Consulting,
where we help you do technology better.
Let's face it, technology is a big ugly
must out there. If you go to
developer.com, you're going to see all
these different topics, all these
different things that have evolved over
the years. uh whether it's AI, whether
it's the latest in you know streaming
technology, whether it's the latest in
UIs, all of that stuff. There's a lot of
technology out there. We spent a lot of
time with it. We've also spent a lot of
time in businesses across a wide range
of of areas and lines of business. We
sit down with you, help you un like
really define your business. Make sure
first that you get that stuff out of
your head, get it on, you know, paper or
digitally. And then we can talk through
your processes, your procedures, and
through simplification, integration,
automation, and even innovation, we can
help you craft a plan, special recipe.
We're going to call it a road technology
roadmap that comes out of this
technology assessment that helps you get
a good plan for today but also for
tomorrow and growing forward to match
the needs of your business. Good thing
and bad thing. Oh boy, this is like I
got to think of what has been going on
lately because it has been it has been a
lot of stuff. Um
very much in this thing. So, good thing
is is that I have been uh as I've been
shifting gears a little bit at the RB
consulting world and and doing a little
more working on my business. Um there
are a lot of those things that I enjoy
and that suck me in. Even some of
aspects of networking. I'm an introvert.
I'm not normally I'm not into the whole
networking thing. Forget that. But there
are pieces of it I do like. there is
like the the problem solver in me, the
you know get to know the deep details of
a problem, that kind of stuff. It's
really fun. I've been doing a lot of
that and so I've been able to do some
things that are different as we've
talked about in the past. Helps me out
because now I'm doing a little bit of
different work. Uh the downside is that
is sucking up a lot of my time. And so
like every day I will get stuck into
something where I'm like, "Oh, I got all
these meetings that I've lined up that I
really need to do, but also I've got
this other work that I need to do. So,
I'm actually working on my business when
at times I like I really need some time
to work in my business. So, I'm getting
into that good thing, bad thing. Uh, the
good thing though right now is that
Michael is going to introduce himself
and allow me to take a breath. Hey
everyone, my name is Michael Malash. I'm
one of the co-founders of Building
Better Developers, also known as
Developer. I'm also the owner of
Envision QA. We help startups and
growing businesses build software that
works the way it's supposed to from day
one. You probably heard stories of
software projects going over budget,
launching late, or breaking once the
user gets their hands on it. That's
where we come in. At Envision QA, we
make sure that your project is tested,
stable, and ready for the customers. We
handle the behind-the-scenes quality
checks, and support development so you
can launch faster, avoid costly
mistakes, and protect your reputation.
In short, we help you build software
that doesn't break your business. Learn
more at envisionqa.com.
Good thing, bad thing. Uh, let's see.
Good thing, bad thing. Uh, well,
I'll go with good thing this time
because really I talked about the bad
thing and thankfully so far nothing else
bad has happened since that. Um, good
thing we finally got some rain
yesterday. Uh, the grass was looking
dead, looking dry. Uh, got just enough
rain, not for the grass to grow, but for
it to be a little bit greener. So, that
was very cool. And then I got a little
notification that in a couple months
Pokemon Legends comes out. So I'm very
stoked for that.
I am stoked to go through this
conversation today because
it started out with okay. It recommended
a different topic. So it recommended
breaking the plateau. Level up your dev
career like it's the final boss. Opening
hook. You've been coding for years.
You're good at your job, but lately it
feels like you're stuck on the same
level. Today we're talking cheat codes
for your career and no, not the kind
that gets you banned from the server.
Episode flow, first part, setting the
stage. The comfortable but stuck
feeling. Projects are fine, paychecks
fine, but growth growth feels flat. Why
plateaus happen? Routine work, lack of
challenge, or not marketing yourself
internally. Analogy. Your career's XP
bar is filling, but the level up screen
never pops. Now, there's a lot of gamer
stuff there that if you don't understand
that, that's okay. We're going to
question you a little bit because most
developers have some sort of gaming
knowledge, but that is a different
topic. Um, this is this is part of why
the developer site of all of this stuff
that we do exists is because
we are knowledge workers. We if we're
going to be better developers, we have
to be lifetime learners. We also need to
be challenged ourselves on a regular
basis to grow because if you're not
growing, you're dying. Especially with
technology because technology is just
marching, marching, marching, marching
and so you can be able to keep up with
that. You need to set a pace that you
know you don't have to know everything
but if you can be regularly growing and
learning new things that are available,
it's going to help you out quite a bit.
And this is this comfortable but stuck.
I was literally talking with somebody
about this not too long ago that did a
complete career change and was at a
company that they left a good job.
Part of it was because of this is
there's a certain point where um you're
going to look at it, you're like, "Okay,
I'm doing the same thing I did last year
or you know, two years ago or six months
ago even sometimes to say I'm not really
growing." Now, it doesn't mean that you
have to like always be doing the latest
whisbang fancy stuff and be on the
bleeding edge, but you do need to be
growing. And that it's not necessarily
in technology. So, it may be that you're
maybe you're not coding as much as you
were before, but maybe now you're doing
more design work or maybe you're doing
some mentoring or leadership or things
like that. There needs to be a growth
path for wherever it is that you're at,
whether it's your company or whether you
know, whoever your employer is or
whether you're doing it yourself through
your side hustles and the things that
you do outside of work. Now, if you're
doing it outside of work, then that may
be enough. you may be able to like just
continue moving forward, which is maybe
the best of all worlds is because now
you have a safe, you know, safe job, a
steady paycheck and all that goodness
and you're able to grow as well. The
problem is that takes time and if you're
spending 40 to 50 or 60 or 70 or 80
hours of work, you know, on your regular
job and you're trying to spend even 10
or 15 hours extra on your other job and
you have, I don't know, this thing
called a family, whatever the heck that
is. I heard those exist somewhere. um
stuff's going to fall apart. It is not
going to work well. Just trust me on
that. You need to be able to find that
balance. And this goes back to some of
the things we've talked to, some of the
things we've talked about in the past.
It's like you've got to change gears
sometimes. You're going to end up
burning out or getting stuck in a rut.
You're just not going to be as good. So,
you need to be looking for ways to
steadily grow. If your company, if your
employer doesn't provide it, then look
for some ways to do so. And if it's
something that's too much of a strain,
then maybe it's time to start looking
for a job that will allow you to grow.
Thoughts on that?
>> Yeah, you kind of set the stage really
well for this one. Um, interestingly
enough though, you know, the comfortable
feeling stuck. One of the things you
have to be careful about if you are
feeling comfortable in your job but not
going anywhere,
you may want to do a little bit of
self-reflection first. make sure that
you are doing
basically are you doing the bare minimum
to make to do the job or are you really
trying to challenge yourself with the
job because I've been in some positions
where
um they gave me tasks and I got bored. I
would get my work done and I would have
hours and I have to sit there at my desk
um before the work from home situation
helps. But you run into situations where
you might feel comfortable in the job,
you know, is it going anywhere? But are
you being challenged? And there was one
company I worked for where the work was
okay,
but very quickly it got boring and there
I wasn't moving up. I wasn't going
anywhere. Uh so I actually started
looking for problems to solve within the
company. So I instead of going external
I went internal and I was like well how
can I grow with myself within the
company. So I actually looked for things
within this company that were outside of
my wheelhouse. I was a um front end
client server application developer. So
I saw these new signature tablets were
coming out. This was way before they're
like everywhere. And I was like hey
what's this? Uh company had one sitting
in a storage room. I picked it up and I
started playing around with it. And next
thing you know, I wrote a little module
app for our check-in software. And then
a couple months later, um, the same type
of software that they were, it was
patient engagement, and it was like, hm,
we've got these webcams laying around
over here. C, can I make that work? So,
I went outside of my wheelhouse and
figured out how to do things. Now, end
of the day, that job went nowhere. I I
was I I finally reached a point where I
I could not go anywhere within this
company. I hit a ceiling. And the moment
I looked outside that company, I found a
job with a lot more pay, a lot more
challenge, and a lot more fun within
weeks. It did not take long. So, step
outside of your wheelhouse. I would say
start internally. If you have like good
relationships with the company you're
with, start there. Try to see if you can
grow. If you
start by asking yourself, are you doing
enough or are you doing the bare
minimum? If you're doing the bare
minimum because you're not challenged,
see if you can challenge yourself within
the company and that might help you move
up within the company and get out of
your wheelhouse. But like I said, if you
reach that point where you aren't, it's
time to look elsewhere.
There's a lot of good points there. I'm
going to move forward though instead of
diving back, getting lost on a couple of
those rabbit trails. So, let's move on
to the next one. So recognizing the
plateau symptoms haven't learned a new
framework, tool or pattern in six plus
months. No increase in responsibilities
or ownership. You can do most tasks on
autopilot. Why this is dangerous?
Industry moves fast and coasting is
really falling behind slowly.
I think this is um this is actually my
first job that I worked myself out of a
job is I think this is a natural kind of
uh progression is that we had something
and we I helped them build a solution uh
we we had the solution we were using it
and then started using the next phase of
growth basically I had I was like is now
refining that solution simplifying it
automating it doing the things that
makes it easier to do and require less
resources or at least human resources
and very quickly over a period of you
know probably six months or so we had
something that took you initially when I
started it took like 30 something days
to get it done and we got it down to
like I think under three days is
basically where I think we got less but
it seems like three days was the number
that we got to so that's a huge change
but it also meant
when you know it was when it was 30 days
it was a full-time developer role when
it's three days that means basically
because you're doing about one of these
a month. It had to do with release
management. You had about one a month.
Well, 30 days fills up your month really
well. Three days does not. So, very
quickly it became all right, I've got 27
days to lay around and do nothing. I
don't want to do that and moving on. So,
I think that's very well a good example
like your plateau. It's like you may
feel that you're okay. So you've
plateaued. But part of it is like if
you've ever worked, you know, entry
level like you know restaurant or
something like that, they'll always say
a man if you say I don't have anything
to do. Manager will always be like well
grab a broom, go you know wipe a table,
clean a floor. We can always in a
similar sense we can always do some
automation do some code review see if
you like documentation code review maybe
build a bit of some you do a little unit
test or some testing around that and
then finding ways to do it better
performance tuning and automation in
particular to like like make this not
just a good solution but like maybe an
almost perfect solution. Work on that
for a while. Now, if you get that, if
you've gone through that, now you've
basically exhausted your, you know, what
you can do with in that area or with
that application and then all right,
maybe you need to move on. But there is
definitely some things you can do um to
help you even if you're if you're
starting to see these little red flags
of like, oo, I feel like I'm plateauing.
Those are a couple things you can do to
maybe get you off of that plateau and
and growing again at least for a little
bit. What are some of the things you've
run into and and how you've tackled them
like that? Yes, I this is actually kind
of an interesting one for me right now
given that we are in kind of an AI
revolution where software development in
and of itself is changing almost daily
uh right now and it really I I really
struggle when I work with developers who
tell me that oh I don't I won't use AI I
won't learn it I don't want to touch
this and they're like what I'm working
on is going to be around forever
and so they're not learning those new
frameworks, they're not learning those
new tools, and they while they are
perfecting their skills at what they
have, they're going to run into a
situation where they're going to be many
uh fish in a very small pond of jobs.
Um, a great example of this was there
was so many developers that went and
learned uh like Cobalt and Forran for
the Y2K panic and then the moment that
was done uh we had the '90s bubble where
all these people got laid off. It's like
oh hey uh we don't need you anymore. We
need real developers and new real
skills. So um not putting shade on for
train cobalt because that uh language
has evolved. Um but that's just one
example. Or if you're like a DevOps or a
network engineer, working with old
technologies is great, but if you don't
stay up to date on what's coming out and
what's new, eventually you're going to
be working with tools that you're not
going to know what to do with and you're
going to be out of a job.
And that's a that is I guess another
area that we haven't really talked about
is sometimes it's just take the same
thing and use a new tool. Uh one of the
things I ran into this is now a couple
years ago I've been doing a lot of
Python and I had been working with it in
uh Visual Studio Code and there was a
project that made good extent that was
some of the doing the same sort of thing
but I used PyCharm. I was like all right
I'm going to go do this or I I also did
a similar thing. I know you hate you
know Intelligj but I'd used Eclipse. I
way way back I used my Eclipse and I
used Eclipse and I used springs STS. So
I'd done a lot of that and I finally was
like you know what I'm going to go do
intelligj I'm going to use their stuff
because I'd used some of their other
tools. So just learning those tools
can be u you know in itself can be a big
change. Uh back in the day there was a
point where I was building some APIs and
I used this tool called Postman that
that was sort of new at the time and
it's turned out to be something that I
use all the time. I sometimes I'll
change up my uh my database browser
tools and things like that. Those are
helpful because it also will help you
get better. You're going to pick the
ones that work most like you and be able
to, you know, to to be the most
productive version of yourself. Uh
breaking through acceleration
strategies. So stretch projects,
volunteer for complex or cross team
challenges, skills stack expansion, add
complimentary skills, UX basics, DevOps
tools, leadership, mentorship 2.0, 0 not
just finding a mentor but mentoring
others to solidify leadership skills
visibility boost speak at internal brown
bags contribute to open source or write
about your learnings those
wow those are all like excellent
excellent ideas we sort of talked about
the first one about uh like volunteering
or finding your own project somewhere
else internally um or anything like
sometimes you'll hear about like we're
getting a research group together to
think about doing this with a project or
or do this direction with our company.
Those are great. Um, volunteer in a um a
charitable sense, whether it's working
for some local charity or whether it's
uh mentorship like you can work at your
maybe there's like a local college you
can work with. I combine that a lot with
brown bag sessions and things like that.
Find excuses whether it's a brown bag
session at work or maybe there's a
meetup that you can go present at. That
stuff is huge. If you go back to our
mentor and mastermind stuff that we've
done over the years, I don't know how
far back you got to go now. It's like
it's a couple years old, but you can go
back out on the YouTube site and you can
find a lot of our old meetings and uh
some of the discussions we had there and
a lot of that did for quite a while talk
about things like get out there, you
know, whether it's you could write a
book, you can have a podcast, you can
now I mean like you can do a YouTube
channel. Uh, but the things where you're
out there presenting, talking about your
ideas, even it's just a simple blog are
in themselves a great way for you to to
really solidify your knowledge. And then
hopefully you get feedback.
[email protected].
Hopefully you get feedback and you're
going to be able to, you know, refine
that knowledge and you're going to be
able to grow that knowledge because
you're going to have conversations with
people and talk to them about what you
know and they're going to tell you what
they know and that's going to help you
grow quite a bit. Uh before we I pass
this you I we've not talked enough about
complimentary skills in a long long
time. Um but that is something that it
is all over the software development the
developer book talk about those about
how you can take the things you're doing
and sort of shift into a slightly
different area. CI/CD and and build
management is great because whatever app
you're building, you can find a way to
deploy it and work on some way to uh to
automate that process whether it's
through some you know pipelines whether
it's through ant whether it's through
batch and shell scripts there's or write
your own installer or things like that
those help you stretch your skills and
also they are you know the bonus are
based on something that you you it's
helpful to the project that you're
building because now you've built a tool
to help those that are deploying your
tool, your application.
Thoughts on that?
>> So, I'm going to stick with kind of the
mentorship and the visibility boost
because one of the biggest things that I
found personally with my growth
expansion over the years was I left
college and I was like, I'm never going
back to an education institution again.
I am done. five years of college, you
know, shifting majors. I'm just done
with teaching, done with teachers, done
with everything. Six months later, I had
to eat those words. I end up getting a
job at a vocational school, working with
people that did not have that formal
education, and it was a lot of fun. You
you learn so much more by teaching
others and seeing their point of view in
a way that you typically wouldn't look
at a problem. the more people that you
can be exposed to for teaching, the more
demographics, the more uh you know just
different um
languages or different you know whatever
they know. Uh you can kind of absorb
that as you're teaching them. It it
really uh helps the more to walk in
someone's shoes and then help them
understand what it is that you're
teaching is a viable resource and it
helps you. It really can help you for
your communication skills and it can
also help you with your troubleshooting
and debugging because helping someone
debug something is you learn so much
from that. It's like oh yeah I forgot
about this or oh I don't I didn't know
that. So you can always try to learn
something new and the visibility boost.
Um,
yes, speaking at internal uh brown bag
events, things like that. You know, it
it's actually funny that stretch project
and the visibility boost. To me, I think
of hackathons. I think go out to a
hackathon, go out to like, heck, go out
to like a hobby. So, like if you're into
video games, go out to like E3 or go to
a local Gamecom. Uh, go out and talk to
people. Go out and network. And again
try to find people with similar skills,
similar mindsets and then you can work
together to maybe build a project or hey
you might come up with the next uh you
know Microsoft or Apple.
>> I think those are Yeah, I think as we
wrap this one up I you guys all probably
know if you listen to us at all that I
love
side hustles as a way to grow your
skills. I love like that's that's now
granted that's exactly how I learned
best. I learned by doing. So from the
very start when I was learning new
languages, one of the things I would do
is I would look at a language and say
what is something this is supposed to do
really well and I would go build that
app with that language and it forced me
to learn the language and usually it was
like sort of learn it and then I'd go
build another app and I would you know
eventually I could say I sort of had
mastered the language because now I've
built a couple of things with that and I
understand some of its ins and outs and
then as as you grow then you're going
learn more ins and outs. As Michael
said, if you start debugging stuff,
that's I think the part best part about
building that little side hustle project
is you're going to have bugs. You're
going to have situations and I have so
many of these when I've screamed and
cussed and done all kinds of stuff where
it's like this worked and then you do
something and now nothing works and you
got to go debug it and figure all that
stuff out. And sometimes it takes a
while. Sometimes it takes quite a bit
and you learn that things get cached or
things didn't get loaded right or things
don't have the right permissions or
something moved its, you know, something
is case sensitive or whatever all the
different things are that can cause to
not work. You start building up this
list of like, okay, here's all the
things I got to check. It makes you
better. And so I I cannot say enough
about like find yourself a little side
project. Like Michael said, you can do
it internally. you can go find something
that's like find some work to do within
your business where maybe there's
something somebody's complaining about a
little problem that you can solve or go
out and scratch your own itch. Uh or if
there's just something that you just are
like, "Hey, it would be cool if I had
this tool." Go build it because it's
going to help you grow and get you off
that plateau.
That being said, it is time to wrap this
one up. I've already mentioned, but I'm
going to mention again,
[email protected].
Shoot us an email if you have any
questions, comments, suggestions,
recommendations, all of that goodness.
We are getting towards the end of this.
Uh we got a few more episodes on this
season. Not sure exactly where we're
going with the next one because hey,
that's who we are. Although, this has
worked really well. Maybe we'll just do
like evergreen content and come back and
do AI uh on some of these past topics
because they are topics that no matter
where you are in your career, you're
going to bump into them over and over
again because we have done so over and
over again. You can also reach out to us
on developer.com. There is feedback
forms. You can leave a feedback a
comment on any of the articles that are
out there. You can go out to YouTube.
There's a developer channel. Check out
stuff there. Uh on X, we are developer.
Anywhere that you see podcast or listen
to podcast, you can download podcasts.
You can leave us a review and we will
get back to you that way as well. We as
well, we appreciate your time. We
appreciate all that you've done for us
and we just want to do for you as well.
As always, go out there and have
yourself a great day, a great week, and
we will talk to you next time. Now, this
time we didn't do all of our bonus
material before we even started. So, I
will let you dive into where do you want
to go with the in the bonus world here?
Oh,
I guess with this one,
one of the things I would say, you know,
the last one we kind of talked about
avoiding
social media, things like that, but with
this one, I would almost engage you to
go out and look for like LinkedIn groups
that kind of fit within your business or
your particular field. Look for
networking events. Look for things that
will help get you out of your box and
help you grow. Um, again, could be
gaming, could be things like that, but
look for like Java 1 or Spring Source or
Microsoft's Big Expo that they do every
year. Those are great learning
opportunities and great networking
opportunities. Just make sure that if
you go to them, make sure you go to the
networking events and talk to people.
Don't just go to the classes and then go
back to your hotel room because you're
not going to get as much out of those as
you would uh with the interaction that
they do. If you don't know anyone, one
of the best trade secrets is if the
conference has a trade show, go down and
talk to all the vendors, ask them if
they have a card and then ask them if
they have any vendor parties that they
are doing in between the event. That are
great networking opportunities. Um,
every so often, like if there's an IBM
booth, I talk to them. They have some
event. I meet some IBM people. I learn
about some new stuff coming out from
IBM. So, talk to people. You never know
who or where your next networking
opportunity will come from.
>> Or you can be like me and don't talk to
anybody. Do the best job you can to
avoid human beings where possible. Uh,
which does not work as well. You really
doesn't help your networking. Trust me.
Um, I do want to talk about one of the
things that it mentioned that we did not
get to. Um, is regular career audits.
And they say like check every six months
where you stand on SC.
>> You hit your mic
>> in satisfaction
>> or you cut out.
>> Let me do this while we're here. Let me
just plug in and see because I did not
have a mic. So, I'm not sure why it
changed. But now we're going to do this
little sucker here. And we're going to
change this.
Uh,
>> that's better. I had a whole bunch of
feedback while you were removing it.
>> Okay. Is that better?
>> Yeah. There you go.
>> Good, good, good, good, good. All right.
Uh, change this. Move this because it's
a little bit too much in my face and
it's a little bit annoying. All right.
Test, test, test. Is that good? Loud
enough. All right.
Sometimes you have technology issues
like that. Um, check in on your skills
every six months. I think this is
something that you should be doing uh
just like we tech owner business and
everything else is talk about or look at
what are you doing where do you want to
go this is your career roadmap that
we've talked about many many times I
would say um it's useful I think it's
better to actually do it once a quarter
sit there at the beginning of the year
put together your road map for the year
what do I want to get done in first
quarter second quarter third quarter
fourth quarter and then at the end of
each is like am I making that progress
and if not and you know what to focus
on. Uh and there should be progress in
each of those. So like one year I did um
the first quarter I was going to learn
swift programming. I was going to spend
some time and learn Swift programming.
So I I had that I was going to spend 15
minutes a day doing that. Uh and then
the second quarter I was going to be
build a Swift app. Uh build a an iPhone
or I watch Apple Watch app uh because
I'd never done one. And then the third
quarter was um build a build a app and
then have it integrate with something. I
can't remember what it was that went on
with that, but it's like a nice
progression of skills. It's something
that you can check off that you can
either say yes, I've done it or no, I
haven't. Especially if you've got a
milestone like a test or a certification
or if you've got some sort of an
application or something like that that
needs to be in a certain state,
obviously you can use that. I think
those career audits are huge is to say,
am I
am I doing what I want to do? Am I
happy? Am I growing? And if not, what
changes do I need to make? Because
sometimes you're going to have a your
career road map's going to be like, I
want to learn Cobalt. And then you're
going to realize that nobody cares about
cobalt after you're six months into it.
And you're like, so punt, say, you know
what, now I don't want to learn cobalt.
I want to go learn something else. Um,
last little bonus thing is it does say
challenge listeners to pick one stretch
action this week. And I just want to
throw that out there. Uh, not for
challenges, but like spend a couple
minutes after this wraps up and just
think about what is something you could
do that would be 5, 10, 15 minutes and
just like get you to grow even just a
little bit. Uh, it may be thinking about
that side hustle application. It may be
like brushing off that old side hustle
application. It may be uh automating
something that you knew you should have
automated months ago. Those kinds of
tasks. It's like just give yourself in
this self self something this week that
is going to help you grow. And then
rinse and repeat every week moving
forward. And then next thing you know,
you're going to be in a lot different
place than you are uh today. That's what
we did years ago when I did the first
blog for developer. And now we've got
thousands
over a thousand that are out there.
Granted, a lot of our podcast episodes
and stuff like that, but we've got all
this stuff that over time it does add up
and the next thing you know, you're, you
know, you've got piles and piles of
stuff and your your biggest challenge is
navigating through all of the content
that you've produced.
As always, appreciate your time. I
appreciate you guys being here and all
that you've done for us. And so, we just
want to do for you as well. Go out
there, have yourself a great day. And we
are not done with the season. We're
still doing more with AI. We will be
back next time
after I figure out how to hit the stop
button.
[Music]
Transcript Segments
1.35

[Music]

29.84

All right. So, let me go back to Oh, we

32.239

just hit record and we are going to find

36.48

this episode

38.96

title podcast ideas. Here we go.

41.84

Breaking through career plateaus tips to

44.96

accelerate your growth as a developer.

46.559

Wow, this will be a fun one. Um, let's

49.76

see.

52.399

>> We must have done these close to GLS

54.559

last year.

56.879

>> Oh, I don't know when we did this.

61.199

I would have to look at how far back

62.96

this was.

65.6

>> Oh, three seasons

67.84

might have been

73.6

>> because we had I mean we've done a lot

74.88

of that kind of stuff. I think I trying

76

to remember what came out of GLS last

78.88

year.

83.92

Episode title, Breaking the Plateau.

85.84

Level up your dev career like it's the

87.84

final boss.

89.64

[Laughter]

91.439

>> All right. It's going to be fun. Oh, no.

95.04

No, you don't get to share. Thanks for

96.72

mentioning that because I wasn't about

98.479

to.

112.159

There's you. Let's do this one.

116.64

We go. Cool.

119.119

>> And let's do this. Let's do this. And

122

we're going to do our little countdown.

127.68

What was the original one? That's what

129.2

it was. We're going to go th Oh, no.

133.04

Ola. We are back again. We are

135.12

continuing our season where we are doing

137.28

a prior season doing all of our uh

140.16

topics that had to do with becoming a

142

better developer basically and now we're

143.52

doing it with AI. We're taking those

145.52

topics and we are putting them through

147.84

AI. We're getting its results, its

150.239

recommendations, and we're basically

152.8

telling it what we think about it. We're

154.319

adding on to uh that conversation just

156.8

like we've added a new guest to talk

158.56

about that subject. So far, it's been

160.319

working really well. We'll see how it

161.84

goes today. Uh this time, we're going to

163.76

talk about breaking through career

165.84

plateaus, tips to accelerate your growth

168.16

as a developer. But before we do that,

171.2

this is the developer podcast. Building

173.44

better developers is also our name. I am

176.08

one of the founders. My name is Rob

177.44

Broadhead. I'm a founder of developer,

179.04

but also the founder of RB Consulting,

181.519

where we help you do technology better.

184

Let's face it, technology is a big ugly

186.08

must out there. If you go to

187.76

developer.com, you're going to see all

189.76

these different topics, all these

191.28

different things that have evolved over

193.28

the years. uh whether it's AI, whether

195.92

it's the latest in you know streaming

198.159

technology, whether it's the latest in

199.92

UIs, all of that stuff. There's a lot of

202.64

technology out there. We spent a lot of

204.159

time with it. We've also spent a lot of

205.84

time in businesses across a wide range

208.239

of of areas and lines of business. We

210.959

sit down with you, help you un like

212.959

really define your business. Make sure

214.72

first that you get that stuff out of

216.72

your head, get it on, you know, paper or

218.959

digitally. And then we can talk through

220.959

your processes, your procedures, and

222.879

through simplification, integration,

224.879

automation, and even innovation, we can

227.12

help you craft a plan, special recipe.

230.239

We're going to call it a road technology

231.92

roadmap that comes out of this

234.08

technology assessment that helps you get

236.4

a good plan for today but also for

238.159

tomorrow and growing forward to match

240.959

the needs of your business. Good thing

243.84

and bad thing. Oh boy, this is like I

247.519

got to think of what has been going on

248.959

lately because it has been it has been a

251.36

lot of stuff. Um

254.159

very much in this thing. So, good thing

256.16

is is that I have been uh as I've been

259.6

shifting gears a little bit at the RB

261.199

consulting world and and doing a little

263.04

more working on my business. Um there

266.56

are a lot of those things that I enjoy

268.16

and that suck me in. Even some of

271.44

aspects of networking. I'm an introvert.

273.6

I'm not normally I'm not into the whole

275.84

networking thing. Forget that. But there

278.32

are pieces of it I do like. there is

280.16

like the the problem solver in me, the

283.28

you know get to know the deep details of

285.759

a problem, that kind of stuff. It's

287.919

really fun. I've been doing a lot of

290.16

that and so I've been able to do some

291.68

things that are different as we've

293.04

talked about in the past. Helps me out

294.88

because now I'm doing a little bit of

296

different work. Uh the downside is that

298.4

is sucking up a lot of my time. And so

300.56

like every day I will get stuck into

302.4

something where I'm like, "Oh, I got all

303.759

these meetings that I've lined up that I

305.199

really need to do, but also I've got

306.72

this other work that I need to do. So,

308.639

I'm actually working on my business when

310.96

at times I like I really need some time

312.56

to work in my business. So, I'm getting

315.199

into that good thing, bad thing. Uh, the

317.84

good thing though right now is that

319.12

Michael is going to introduce himself

320.479

and allow me to take a breath. Hey

322.8

everyone, my name is Michael Malash. I'm

324.56

one of the co-founders of Building

325.68

Better Developers, also known as

327.36

Developer. I'm also the owner of

329.52

Envision QA. We help startups and

331.84

growing businesses build software that

333.6

works the way it's supposed to from day

336.24

one. You probably heard stories of

338.56

software projects going over budget,

340.479

launching late, or breaking once the

342.4

user gets their hands on it. That's

344.08

where we come in. At Envision QA, we

346.32

make sure that your project is tested,

348.479

stable, and ready for the customers. We

350.88

handle the behind-the-scenes quality

352.56

checks, and support development so you

354.72

can launch faster, avoid costly

356.479

mistakes, and protect your reputation.

358.96

In short, we help you build software

360.56

that doesn't break your business. Learn

362.479

more at envisionqa.com.

365.039

Good thing, bad thing. Uh, let's see.

367.36

Good thing, bad thing. Uh, well,

371.039

I'll go with good thing this time

372.4

because really I talked about the bad

373.919

thing and thankfully so far nothing else

376.4

bad has happened since that. Um, good

379.6

thing we finally got some rain

380.96

yesterday. Uh, the grass was looking

383.52

dead, looking dry. Uh, got just enough

386.319

rain, not for the grass to grow, but for

387.919

it to be a little bit greener. So, that

389.52

was very cool. And then I got a little

391.6

notification that in a couple months

393.44

Pokemon Legends comes out. So I'm very

395.759

stoked for that.

398.88

I am stoked to go through this

401.199

conversation today because

403.68

it started out with okay. It recommended

405.84

a different topic. So it recommended

407.68

breaking the plateau. Level up your dev

409.759

career like it's the final boss. Opening

412.56

hook. You've been coding for years.

414.16

You're good at your job, but lately it

415.68

feels like you're stuck on the same

416.88

level. Today we're talking cheat codes

419.36

for your career and no, not the kind

421.039

that gets you banned from the server.

423.199

Episode flow, first part, setting the

425.039

stage. The comfortable but stuck

427.12

feeling. Projects are fine, paychecks

429.039

fine, but growth growth feels flat. Why

432

plateaus happen? Routine work, lack of

434.24

challenge, or not marketing yourself

435.919

internally. Analogy. Your career's XP

438.479

bar is filling, but the level up screen

440.4

never pops. Now, there's a lot of gamer

442.72

stuff there that if you don't understand

444.16

that, that's okay. We're going to

446.72

question you a little bit because most

447.759

developers have some sort of gaming

449.12

knowledge, but that is a different

451.12

topic. Um, this is this is part of why

455.039

the developer site of all of this stuff

457.68

that we do exists is because

461.039

we are knowledge workers. We if we're

464.4

going to be better developers, we have

466.479

to be lifetime learners. We also need to

469.84

be challenged ourselves on a regular

471.52

basis to grow because if you're not

473.199

growing, you're dying. Especially with

475.28

technology because technology is just

476.879

marching, marching, marching, marching

478.639

and so you can be able to keep up with

480.879

that. You need to set a pace that you

482.96

know you don't have to know everything

484.639

but if you can be regularly growing and

487.52

learning new things that are available,

488.96

it's going to help you out quite a bit.

492

And this is this comfortable but stuck.

494

I was literally talking with somebody

495.599

about this not too long ago that did a

497.12

complete career change and was at a

499.36

company that they left a good job.

502.16

Part of it was because of this is

503.52

there's a certain point where um you're

506.879

going to look at it, you're like, "Okay,

508.08

I'm doing the same thing I did last year

510.479

or you know, two years ago or six months

512.8

ago even sometimes to say I'm not really

515.599

growing." Now, it doesn't mean that you

517.599

have to like always be doing the latest

519.36

whisbang fancy stuff and be on the

521.76

bleeding edge, but you do need to be

524.08

growing. And that it's not necessarily

525.839

in technology. So, it may be that you're

527.76

maybe you're not coding as much as you

529.44

were before, but maybe now you're doing

531.04

more design work or maybe you're doing

532.8

some mentoring or leadership or things

534.56

like that. There needs to be a growth

536.48

path for wherever it is that you're at,

538.88

whether it's your company or whether you

541.519

know, whoever your employer is or

543.04

whether you're doing it yourself through

544.8

your side hustles and the things that

546.16

you do outside of work. Now, if you're

548.56

doing it outside of work, then that may

550.56

be enough. you may be able to like just

552.399

continue moving forward, which is maybe

554.48

the best of all worlds is because now

556.16

you have a safe, you know, safe job, a

558.32

steady paycheck and all that goodness

560.32

and you're able to grow as well. The

562.8

problem is that takes time and if you're

564.48

spending 40 to 50 or 60 or 70 or 80

566.8

hours of work, you know, on your regular

568.88

job and you're trying to spend even 10

571.279

or 15 hours extra on your other job and

574.16

you have, I don't know, this thing

575.279

called a family, whatever the heck that

576.959

is. I heard those exist somewhere. um

580.88

stuff's going to fall apart. It is not

582.64

going to work well. Just trust me on

584.24

that. You need to be able to find that

586.64

balance. And this goes back to some of

588.56

the things we've talked to, some of the

590.72

things we've talked about in the past.

591.839

It's like you've got to change gears

594.399

sometimes. You're going to end up

595.839

burning out or getting stuck in a rut.

597.68

You're just not going to be as good. So,

601.68

you need to be looking for ways to

603.44

steadily grow. If your company, if your

605.04

employer doesn't provide it, then look

606.56

for some ways to do so. And if it's

608.8

something that's too much of a strain,

610.48

then maybe it's time to start looking

611.92

for a job that will allow you to grow.

614.399

Thoughts on that?

616.64

>> Yeah, you kind of set the stage really

618.32

well for this one. Um, interestingly

620.88

enough though, you know, the comfortable

622.48

feeling stuck. One of the things you

625.12

have to be careful about if you are

627.76

feeling comfortable in your job but not

629.68

going anywhere,

632.079

you may want to do a little bit of

633.44

self-reflection first. make sure that

635.519

you are doing

638.8

basically are you doing the bare minimum

640.959

to make to do the job or are you really

644.48

trying to challenge yourself with the

646

job because I've been in some positions

647.839

where

649.36

um they gave me tasks and I got bored. I

651.92

would get my work done and I would have

653.519

hours and I have to sit there at my desk

655.6

um before the work from home situation

657.519

helps. But you run into situations where

662.8

you might feel comfortable in the job,

665.04

you know, is it going anywhere? But are

667.04

you being challenged? And there was one

669.279

company I worked for where the work was

673.68

okay,

675.2

but very quickly it got boring and there

678.16

I wasn't moving up. I wasn't going

679.76

anywhere. Uh so I actually started

681.76

looking for problems to solve within the

683.6

company. So I instead of going external

685.68

I went internal and I was like well how

687.6

can I grow with myself within the

690.56

company. So I actually looked for things

692.72

within this company that were outside of

695.04

my wheelhouse. I was a um front end

698.16

client server application developer. So

700.88

I saw these new signature tablets were

704

coming out. This was way before they're

705.76

like everywhere. And I was like hey

707.68

what's this? Uh company had one sitting

709.92

in a storage room. I picked it up and I

711.68

started playing around with it. And next

713.04

thing you know, I wrote a little module

714.72

app for our check-in software. And then

717.839

a couple months later, um, the same type

720.8

of software that they were, it was

722.72

patient engagement, and it was like, hm,

724.72

we've got these webcams laying around

726.32

over here. C, can I make that work? So,

728.639

I went outside of my wheelhouse and

730.72

figured out how to do things. Now, end

732.8

of the day, that job went nowhere. I I

735.519

was I I finally reached a point where I

738

I could not go anywhere within this

740.72

company. I hit a ceiling. And the moment

744.48

I looked outside that company, I found a

747.44

job with a lot more pay, a lot more

751.36

challenge, and a lot more fun within

754.32

weeks. It did not take long. So, step

758.32

outside of your wheelhouse. I would say

760.399

start internally. If you have like good

763.04

relationships with the company you're

764.639

with, start there. Try to see if you can

766.8

grow. If you

769.839

start by asking yourself, are you doing

771.839

enough or are you doing the bare

773.12

minimum? If you're doing the bare

774.16

minimum because you're not challenged,

775.92

see if you can challenge yourself within

777.6

the company and that might help you move

780.32

up within the company and get out of

782

your wheelhouse. But like I said, if you

784.56

reach that point where you aren't, it's

786.56

time to look elsewhere.

789.279

There's a lot of good points there. I'm

791.279

going to move forward though instead of

792.639

diving back, getting lost on a couple of

794.32

those rabbit trails. So, let's move on

795.76

to the next one. So recognizing the

797.12

plateau symptoms haven't learned a new

800

framework, tool or pattern in six plus

801.92

months. No increase in responsibilities

804.56

or ownership. You can do most tasks on

807.04

autopilot. Why this is dangerous?

809.2

Industry moves fast and coasting is

811.12

really falling behind slowly.

814.72

I think this is um this is actually my

817.68

first job that I worked myself out of a

819.6

job is I think this is a natural kind of

822.16

uh progression is that we had something

824.56

and we I helped them build a solution uh

828.16

we we had the solution we were using it

830.8

and then started using the next phase of

833.68

growth basically I had I was like is now

836.56

refining that solution simplifying it

838.72

automating it doing the things that

841.12

makes it easier to do and require less

844.079

resources or at least human resources

846.48

and very quickly over a period of you

848.8

know probably six months or so we had

850.399

something that took you initially when I

852.48

started it took like 30 something days

854

to get it done and we got it down to

856.32

like I think under three days is

858

basically where I think we got less but

859.36

it seems like three days was the number

860.72

that we got to so that's a huge change

863.76

but it also meant

865.92

when you know it was when it was 30 days

867.76

it was a full-time developer role when

869.6

it's three days that means basically

871.199

because you're doing about one of these

873.12

a month. It had to do with release

874.399

management. You had about one a month.

876.32

Well, 30 days fills up your month really

878.16

well. Three days does not. So, very

880.639

quickly it became all right, I've got 27

884.24

days to lay around and do nothing. I

886.16

don't want to do that and moving on. So,

888.16

I think that's very well a good example

890.88

like your plateau. It's like you may

893.04

feel that you're okay. So you've

894.56

plateaued. But part of it is like if

896.72

you've ever worked, you know, entry

898.639

level like you know restaurant or

900.639

something like that, they'll always say

902

a man if you say I don't have anything

903.279

to do. Manager will always be like well

905.199

grab a broom, go you know wipe a table,

907.12

clean a floor. We can always in a

910.16

similar sense we can always do some

912.079

automation do some code review see if

914.16

you like documentation code review maybe

916.72

build a bit of some you do a little unit

918.56

test or some testing around that and

921.519

then finding ways to do it better

923.68

performance tuning and automation in

926

particular to like like make this not

928.8

just a good solution but like maybe an

930.8

almost perfect solution. Work on that

932.56

for a while. Now, if you get that, if

934.8

you've gone through that, now you've

936.399

basically exhausted your, you know, what

938.959

you can do with in that area or with

941.6

that application and then all right,

943.92

maybe you need to move on. But there is

945.6

definitely some things you can do um to

948.48

help you even if you're if you're

949.92

starting to see these little red flags

951.199

of like, oo, I feel like I'm plateauing.

953.36

Those are a couple things you can do to

954.88

maybe get you off of that plateau and

956.56

and growing again at least for a little

958.56

bit. What are some of the things you've

960.16

run into and and how you've tackled them

962.079

like that? Yes, I this is actually kind

964.959

of an interesting one for me right now

966.56

given that we are in kind of an AI

969.44

revolution where software development in

972.639

and of itself is changing almost daily

975.92

uh right now and it really I I really

980.24

struggle when I work with developers who

982.8

tell me that oh I don't I won't use AI I

985.44

won't learn it I don't want to touch

986.639

this and they're like what I'm working

988.72

on is going to be around forever

991.68

and so they're not learning those new

993.199

frameworks, they're not learning those

994.639

new tools, and they while they are

997.92

perfecting their skills at what they

1000.079

have, they're going to run into a

1002.16

situation where they're going to be many

1005.68

uh fish in a very small pond of jobs.

1009.04

Um, a great example of this was there

1011.12

was so many developers that went and

1013.12

learned uh like Cobalt and Forran for

1016.959

the Y2K panic and then the moment that

1020.32

was done uh we had the '90s bubble where

1023.12

all these people got laid off. It's like

1024.88

oh hey uh we don't need you anymore. We

1027.36

need real developers and new real

1029.52

skills. So um not putting shade on for

1033.36

train cobalt because that uh language

1036.48

has evolved. Um but that's just one

1039.919

example. Or if you're like a DevOps or a

1043.52

network engineer, working with old

1046.319

technologies is great, but if you don't

1048.079

stay up to date on what's coming out and

1050.16

what's new, eventually you're going to

1052.4

be working with tools that you're not

1054.4

going to know what to do with and you're

1055.6

going to be out of a job.

1057.84

And that's a that is I guess another

1060.16

area that we haven't really talked about

1061.28

is sometimes it's just take the same

1063.039

thing and use a new tool. Uh one of the

1065.28

things I ran into this is now a couple

1067.6

years ago I've been doing a lot of

1068.64

Python and I had been working with it in

1071.039

uh Visual Studio Code and there was a

1073.44

project that made good extent that was

1075.12

some of the doing the same sort of thing

1077.919

but I used PyCharm. I was like all right

1079.919

I'm going to go do this or I I also did

1081.84

a similar thing. I know you hate you

1083.76

know Intelligj but I'd used Eclipse. I

1086.64

way way back I used my Eclipse and I

1088.799

used Eclipse and I used springs STS. So

1091.44

I'd done a lot of that and I finally was

1092.88

like you know what I'm going to go do

1094.16

intelligj I'm going to use their stuff

1096.08

because I'd used some of their other

1097.36

tools. So just learning those tools

1100.64

can be u you know in itself can be a big

1103.36

change. Uh back in the day there was a

1105.6

point where I was building some APIs and

1107.679

I used this tool called Postman that

1109.84

that was sort of new at the time and

1113.12

it's turned out to be something that I

1114.32

use all the time. I sometimes I'll

1116.16

change up my uh my database browser

1118.4

tools and things like that. Those are

1120.72

helpful because it also will help you

1122.799

get better. You're going to pick the

1124.48

ones that work most like you and be able

1127.039

to, you know, to to be the most

1128.88

productive version of yourself. Uh

1131.2

breaking through acceleration

1132.96

strategies. So stretch projects,

1134.799

volunteer for complex or cross team

1136.88

challenges, skills stack expansion, add

1139.6

complimentary skills, UX basics, DevOps

1142.4

tools, leadership, mentorship 2.0, 0 not

1145.36

just finding a mentor but mentoring

1146.96

others to solidify leadership skills

1149.36

visibility boost speak at internal brown

1152.16

bags contribute to open source or write

1154.16

about your learnings those

1156.96

wow those are all like excellent

1159.28

excellent ideas we sort of talked about

1160.88

the first one about uh like volunteering

1163.2

or finding your own project somewhere

1165.039

else internally um or anything like

1167.84

sometimes you'll hear about like we're

1169.44

getting a research group together to

1171.12

think about doing this with a project or

1172.64

or do this direction with our company.

1175.679

Those are great. Um, volunteer in a um a

1180.64

charitable sense, whether it's working

1182.64

for some local charity or whether it's

1184.559

uh mentorship like you can work at your

1186.88

maybe there's like a local college you

1188.4

can work with. I combine that a lot with

1190.72

brown bag sessions and things like that.

1192.48

Find excuses whether it's a brown bag

1195.039

session at work or maybe there's a

1196.72

meetup that you can go present at. That

1199.6

stuff is huge. If you go back to our

1202.559

mentor and mastermind stuff that we've

1204.4

done over the years, I don't know how

1206.48

far back you got to go now. It's like

1208.48

it's a couple years old, but you can go

1210

back out on the YouTube site and you can

1212.96

find a lot of our old meetings and uh

1215.36

some of the discussions we had there and

1217.12

a lot of that did for quite a while talk

1219.52

about things like get out there, you

1221.679

know, whether it's you could write a

1223.28

book, you can have a podcast, you can

1226

now I mean like you can do a YouTube

1227.679

channel. Uh, but the things where you're

1230.08

out there presenting, talking about your

1232

ideas, even it's just a simple blog are

1234.64

in themselves a great way for you to to

1237.36

really solidify your knowledge. And then

1239.12

hopefully you get feedback.

1242.24

Hopefully you get feedback and you're

1244.72

going to be able to, you know, refine

1247.28

that knowledge and you're going to be

1248.4

able to grow that knowledge because

1249.44

you're going to have conversations with

1250.799

people and talk to them about what you

1252.559

know and they're going to tell you what

1253.6

they know and that's going to help you

1255.84

grow quite a bit. Uh before we I pass

1258.96

this you I we've not talked enough about

1261.76

complimentary skills in a long long

1263.52

time. Um but that is something that it

1266.24

is all over the software development the

1268.32

developer book talk about those about

1271.84

how you can take the things you're doing

1274.32

and sort of shift into a slightly

1276.559

different area. CI/CD and and build

1279.039

management is great because whatever app

1280.799

you're building, you can find a way to

1283.44

deploy it and work on some way to uh to

1286.64

automate that process whether it's

1288.32

through some you know pipelines whether

1289.84

it's through ant whether it's through

1291.6

batch and shell scripts there's or write

1294.559

your own installer or things like that

1297.679

those help you stretch your skills and

1301.039

also they are you know the bonus are

1303.36

based on something that you you it's

1304.88

helpful to the project that you're

1306.24

building because now you've built a tool

1308.4

to help those that are deploying your

1310.88

tool, your application.

1313.039

Thoughts on that?

1314.88

>> So, I'm going to stick with kind of the

1317.039

mentorship and the visibility boost

1319.039

because one of the biggest things that I

1322.08

found personally with my growth

1325.12

expansion over the years was I left

1327.76

college and I was like, I'm never going

1330.08

back to an education institution again.

1332.559

I am done. five years of college, you

1335.28

know, shifting majors. I'm just done

1337.84

with teaching, done with teachers, done

1339.44

with everything. Six months later, I had

1341.76

to eat those words. I end up getting a

1343.44

job at a vocational school, working with

1346.48

people that did not have that formal

1348.559

education, and it was a lot of fun. You

1351.44

you learn so much more by teaching

1354.24

others and seeing their point of view in

1357.12

a way that you typically wouldn't look

1359.12

at a problem. the more people that you

1361.36

can be exposed to for teaching, the more

1363.28

demographics, the more uh you know just

1366.72

different um

1370.08

languages or different you know whatever

1372.559

they know. Uh you can kind of absorb

1375.84

that as you're teaching them. It it

1377.919

really uh helps the more to walk in

1380.96

someone's shoes and then help them

1384.88

understand what it is that you're

1386.4

teaching is a viable resource and it

1388.88

helps you. It really can help you for

1391.039

your communication skills and it can

1393.12

also help you with your troubleshooting

1395.039

and debugging because helping someone

1397.679

debug something is you learn so much

1400.32

from that. It's like oh yeah I forgot

1402.48

about this or oh I don't I didn't know

1404.72

that. So you can always try to learn

1406.559

something new and the visibility boost.

1409.12

Um,

1410.799

yes, speaking at internal uh brown bag

1413.36

events, things like that. You know, it

1415.44

it's actually funny that stretch project

1417.36

and the visibility boost. To me, I think

1419.52

of hackathons. I think go out to a

1422.08

hackathon, go out to like, heck, go out

1425.76

to like a hobby. So, like if you're into

1427.36

video games, go out to like E3 or go to

1429.44

a local Gamecom. Uh, go out and talk to

1432.72

people. Go out and network. And again

1435.84

try to find people with similar skills,

1438

similar mindsets and then you can work

1441.12

together to maybe build a project or hey

1444.08

you might come up with the next uh you

1445.84

know Microsoft or Apple.

1449.679

>> I think those are Yeah, I think as we

1452.32

wrap this one up I you guys all probably

1455.6

know if you listen to us at all that I

1457.6

love

1459.279

side hustles as a way to grow your

1460.88

skills. I love like that's that's now

1463.919

granted that's exactly how I learned

1465.6

best. I learned by doing. So from the

1468.4

very start when I was learning new

1471.279

languages, one of the things I would do

1472.799

is I would look at a language and say

1474.64

what is something this is supposed to do

1476.08

really well and I would go build that

1477.679

app with that language and it forced me

1479.76

to learn the language and usually it was

1483.2

like sort of learn it and then I'd go

1484.88

build another app and I would you know

1487.039

eventually I could say I sort of had

1488.88

mastered the language because now I've

1490.32

built a couple of things with that and I

1493.039

understand some of its ins and outs and

1494.799

then as as you grow then you're going

1497.36

learn more ins and outs. As Michael

1498.88

said, if you start debugging stuff,

1500.64

that's I think the part best part about

1502.48

building that little side hustle project

1504.159

is you're going to have bugs. You're

1505.84

going to have situations and I have so

1508.48

many of these when I've screamed and

1509.76

cussed and done all kinds of stuff where

1511.6

it's like this worked and then you do

1514

something and now nothing works and you

1515.76

got to go debug it and figure all that

1517.76

stuff out. And sometimes it takes a

1520.799

while. Sometimes it takes quite a bit

1522.72

and you learn that things get cached or

1525.84

things didn't get loaded right or things

1527.6

don't have the right permissions or

1528.96

something moved its, you know, something

1530.48

is case sensitive or whatever all the

1532.88

different things are that can cause to

1535.679

not work. You start building up this

1538

list of like, okay, here's all the

1539.84

things I got to check. It makes you

1541.919

better. And so I I cannot say enough

1545.6

about like find yourself a little side

1547.919

project. Like Michael said, you can do

1549.36

it internally. you can go find something

1551.279

that's like find some work to do within

1552.96

your business where maybe there's

1554

something somebody's complaining about a

1555.52

little problem that you can solve or go

1557.76

out and scratch your own itch. Uh or if

1559.44

there's just something that you just are

1560.72

like, "Hey, it would be cool if I had

1562.08

this tool." Go build it because it's

1564.559

going to help you grow and get you off

1566.559

that plateau.

1568.48

That being said, it is time to wrap this

1571.36

one up. I've already mentioned, but I'm

1572.72

going to mention again,

1573.279

[email protected].

1575.12

Shoot us an email if you have any

1576.32

questions, comments, suggestions,

1577.84

recommendations, all of that goodness.

1580

We are getting towards the end of this.

1582.32

Uh we got a few more episodes on this

1584

season. Not sure exactly where we're

1585.84

going with the next one because hey,

1587.36

that's who we are. Although, this has

1588.88

worked really well. Maybe we'll just do

1590.32

like evergreen content and come back and

1592.4

do AI uh on some of these past topics

1595.039

because they are topics that no matter

1598.159

where you are in your career, you're

1599.76

going to bump into them over and over

1601.12

again because we have done so over and

1603.36

over again. You can also reach out to us

1606.08

on developer.com. There is feedback

1608.559

forms. You can leave a feedback a

1610.32

comment on any of the articles that are

1611.919

out there. You can go out to YouTube.

1613.52

There's a developer channel. Check out

1615.2

stuff there. Uh on X, we are developer.

1619.039

Anywhere that you see podcast or listen

1621.279

to podcast, you can download podcasts.

1623.84

You can leave us a review and we will

1626

get back to you that way as well. We as

1628

well, we appreciate your time. We

1629.6

appreciate all that you've done for us

1630.96

and we just want to do for you as well.

1634.4

As always, go out there and have

1635.84

yourself a great day, a great week, and

1638.08

we will talk to you next time. Now, this

1642.24

time we didn't do all of our bonus

1643.679

material before we even started. So, I

1646.64

will let you dive into where do you want

1648.32

to go with the in the bonus world here?

1652.08

Oh,

1653.6

I guess with this one,

1658.32

one of the things I would say, you know,

1660.88

the last one we kind of talked about

1663.039

avoiding

1664.72

social media, things like that, but with

1666.4

this one, I would almost engage you to

1669.52

go out and look for like LinkedIn groups

1672.559

that kind of fit within your business or

1676.08

your particular field. Look for

1679.039

networking events. Look for things that

1682.32

will help get you out of your box and

1684.48

help you grow. Um, again, could be

1688

gaming, could be things like that, but

1689.52

look for like Java 1 or Spring Source or

1692.96

Microsoft's Big Expo that they do every

1694.96

year. Those are great learning

1697.279

opportunities and great networking

1699.279

opportunities. Just make sure that if

1701.2

you go to them, make sure you go to the

1703.279

networking events and talk to people.

1705.2

Don't just go to the classes and then go

1707.039

back to your hotel room because you're

1708.799

not going to get as much out of those as

1710.799

you would uh with the interaction that

1713.279

they do. If you don't know anyone, one

1716.08

of the best trade secrets is if the

1718.799

conference has a trade show, go down and

1721.679

talk to all the vendors, ask them if

1723.679

they have a card and then ask them if

1725.76

they have any vendor parties that they

1728.24

are doing in between the event. That are

1730.88

great networking opportunities. Um,

1733.12

every so often, like if there's an IBM

1735.36

booth, I talk to them. They have some

1737.36

event. I meet some IBM people. I learn

1739.279

about some new stuff coming out from

1741.12

IBM. So, talk to people. You never know

1744.48

who or where your next networking

1746.48

opportunity will come from.

1748.64

>> Or you can be like me and don't talk to

1750.24

anybody. Do the best job you can to

1751.919

avoid human beings where possible. Uh,

1754.64

which does not work as well. You really

1756.559

doesn't help your networking. Trust me.

1758.64

Um, I do want to talk about one of the

1760.08

things that it mentioned that we did not

1761.679

get to. Um, is regular career audits.

1764.799

And they say like check every six months

1766.48

where you stand on SC.

1767.44

>> You hit your mic

1768.48

>> in satisfaction

1771.44

>> or you cut out.

1774.88

>> Let me do this while we're here. Let me

1776.559

just plug in and see because I did not

1778.72

have a mic. So, I'm not sure why it

1781.44

changed. But now we're going to do this

1784.159

little sucker here. And we're going to

1787.12

change this.

1789.84

Uh,

1790.24

>> that's better. I had a whole bunch of

1791.44

feedback while you were removing it.

1793.2

>> Okay. Is that better?

1794.88

>> Yeah. There you go.

1796.08

>> Good, good, good, good, good. All right.

1798.32

Uh, change this. Move this because it's

1800.88

a little bit too much in my face and

1802.48

it's a little bit annoying. All right.

1804.96

Test, test, test. Is that good? Loud

1806.799

enough. All right.

1809.12

Sometimes you have technology issues

1810.799

like that. Um, check in on your skills

1813.919

every six months. I think this is

1815.84

something that you should be doing uh

1817.84

just like we tech owner business and

1819.36

everything else is talk about or look at

1822.48

what are you doing where do you want to

1823.919

go this is your career roadmap that

1826.399

we've talked about many many times I

1828.64

would say um it's useful I think it's

1831.44

better to actually do it once a quarter

1833.52

sit there at the beginning of the year

1835.6

put together your road map for the year

1837.279

what do I want to get done in first

1838.559

quarter second quarter third quarter

1840.08

fourth quarter and then at the end of

1841.919

each is like am I making that progress

1843.84

and if not and you know what to focus

1846.799

on. Uh and there should be progress in

1848.96

each of those. So like one year I did um

1851.919

the first quarter I was going to learn

1853.76

swift programming. I was going to spend

1855.12

some time and learn Swift programming.

1856.72

So I I had that I was going to spend 15

1859.52

minutes a day doing that. Uh and then

1862

the second quarter I was going to be

1863.44

build a Swift app. Uh build a an iPhone

1866.159

or I watch Apple Watch app uh because

1869.919

I'd never done one. And then the third

1872

quarter was um build a build a app and

1876

then have it integrate with something. I

1877.36

can't remember what it was that went on

1878.48

with that, but it's like a nice

1879.76

progression of skills. It's something

1881.36

that you can check off that you can

1882.559

either say yes, I've done it or no, I

1884.24

haven't. Especially if you've got a

1886.88

milestone like a test or a certification

1890.72

or if you've got some sort of an

1892.159

application or something like that that

1893.44

needs to be in a certain state,

1894.96

obviously you can use that. I think

1897.36

those career audits are huge is to say,

1900.159

am I

1902.08

am I doing what I want to do? Am I

1904.159

happy? Am I growing? And if not, what

1907.039

changes do I need to make? Because

1908.48

sometimes you're going to have a your

1909.76

career road map's going to be like, I

1911.2

want to learn Cobalt. And then you're

1913.44

going to realize that nobody cares about

1915.36

cobalt after you're six months into it.

1917.039

And you're like, so punt, say, you know

1919.12

what, now I don't want to learn cobalt.

1921.36

I want to go learn something else. Um,

1925.36

last little bonus thing is it does say

1927.679

challenge listeners to pick one stretch

1929.84

action this week. And I just want to

1931.279

throw that out there. Uh, not for

1933.279

challenges, but like spend a couple

1936

minutes after this wraps up and just

1938.159

think about what is something you could

1939.76

do that would be 5, 10, 15 minutes and

1942.96

just like get you to grow even just a

1946.24

little bit. Uh, it may be thinking about

1948.399

that side hustle application. It may be

1950.24

like brushing off that old side hustle

1952.08

application. It may be uh automating

1954.64

something that you knew you should have

1956.559

automated months ago. Those kinds of

1958.64

tasks. It's like just give yourself in

1960.559

this self self something this week that

1962.64

is going to help you grow. And then

1965.44

rinse and repeat every week moving

1967.12

forward. And then next thing you know,

1968.559

you're going to be in a lot different

1969.84

place than you are uh today. That's what

1972.72

we did years ago when I did the first

1975.919

blog for developer. And now we've got

1979.039

thousands

1980.559

over a thousand that are out there.

1982.08

Granted, a lot of our podcast episodes

1983.44

and stuff like that, but we've got all

1984.72

this stuff that over time it does add up

1987.679

and the next thing you know, you're, you

1989.76

know, you've got piles and piles of

1991.2

stuff and your your biggest challenge is

1993.12

navigating through all of the content

1995.36

that you've produced.

1997.44

As always, appreciate your time. I

1999.84

appreciate you guys being here and all

2001.919

that you've done for us. And so, we just

2004.159

want to do for you as well. Go out

2006.32

there, have yourself a great day. And we

2008.64

are not done with the season. We're

2010

still doing more with AI. We will be

2012.159

back next time

2015.44

after I figure out how to hit the stop

2017.12

button.

2019.67

[Music]