📺 Develpreneur YouTube Episode

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Upgrading Your Business: Proven Tips to Save Time & Grow Faster | Building Better Developers

2025-05-27 •Youtube

Detailed Notes

In this episode of Building Better Developers, Rob Broadhead and Michael Meloche discuss upgrading your business — what it means, why it matters, and how to do it smartly. From better tools and smarter hiring to training and compliance, this episode is packed with tips that can save you time, money, and frustration.

🔧 Whether you’re a solopreneur or growing team, learn how to: • Spot hidden time-wasters • Choose the right tools and software • Decide when to train vs. hire • Stay compliant and secure • Boost productivity through smart upgrades

📌 Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more weekly episodes on building better businesses.

📬 Questions or ideas? Email us at:[email protected] Visit: https://develpreneur.com/

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0:00 – Behind the scenes 8:23 – Introduction 15:00 - What does “upgrading your business” really mean? 34:30 – Challenge 39:35 – Bonus Material

Transcript Text
[Music]
accord to the cloud and boom, we're live
as far as you know. Well, we're alive.
Uh well, actually, we might not be by
the time we get this. Who knows? But we
are right now. me through traversing my
various little notebook here to see
where I can put some notes for what
we're going to talk about.
Um, randomness uh networking thing came
across a guy that he focuses on
um they're like a life coach and their
focus is uh burnout and stress and like
high per high achievers and high
performers and trying to keep them from
burning out stuff like that. So, uh,
swap business cards and said, you know,
this they've got like a whole, it's like
a Tony Robbins kind of thing. They've
got like a whole process they go through
for this, but like I said, hey, how
would you like to be on a podcast? And
he's like, "Sure." He's like, "So, I
think we may have a guest for a future
episode for an interview kind of thing."
Cool. It's crazy. I know Reena was still
um interested and in fact she's about to
move out of the local into her uh an
actual brick and mortar. So she's
location. Yeah. So she's growing. Uh I
think she's got a new vending machine
coming to Nashville. And so for bronze
it's like she she's taking off. It's
pretty cool.
Let's see. Did we have leftovers? I
don't think we have any leftovers. I
think we're
caught on at least that backlog. So,
let's see. What are some
good thinking, thinking, thinking,
thinking? I will preface this. This is a
uh cocktail hour.
Oh, maybe I should do that, too, because
I'm just running with decaf tea right
now. Um, you know what?
All right.
because I was uh at the Wei Work space
uh at the
local great place if you're in Jackson,
Tennessee. All right. Uh I'm going to
step off camera for a second and pour
myself a
cocktail while we think about that
because you know what? It has
been a day slashw week. So, while you're
doing that, any ideas since I can still
pick you up on the earbuds?
Um I'm trying to think of what is some
good I'm trying to think like what have
we not really touched on that would be
building better
uh especially towards the end since we
are near the end.
Yeah. One thing is I'm looking around my
plates here my doicile. Um, you know,
one thing we could go into, it's a
little bit more of a feels like a
Christmy kind of thing to do, but we
could go into like,
um, choosing proper equipment for your,
you know, purchasing proper equipment
for your employees and stuff like that.
So things like, you know, in, you know,
making a decision. Is it really worth it
to go, you know, buy a large screen for
their computer or buy a, you know, do
you buy a, you know, spend extra money
on a laptop or do you just say, you
know, screw it and go with like, you
know, something that's just the, you
know, the cheapest thing that's off the
shelf that like does the job and and
things like that? because there's
definitely some some level
of you know the investment in the tools
but that's going to pay off because
that's also and that actually even goes
into things like what if I get a um it's
like training and um you know some of
those tool like do I get an IDE or I
just say no just use like notepad or
something like
that. Yeah, because we talked about uh
was it employees or scaling? I think
um build a sustainable business,
pitching your business, product
enhancement. Yeah, I like that. That
that definitely. So maybe
uh let's see. So yeah, making decisions
to upgrade equipment, cost versus ROI
versus time. Um,
oh, so we did sort of do that. No, no, I
was reading what you I summarized what
you just said. Ah,
okay. I said I want to give Yeah. Off
the rails, business tuneup checklist,
try to refresh,
refocus. Uh, yeah, we didn't really
touch on a I mean, we touched on other
things like when to hire people, when um
yeah, how to build real relationships
that grow your business, networking
strategies, continuity,
recovery. Oh, yeah, there's more up
here. Uh, business growth strategies,
uh, when and how to scale successfully,
leveraging
AI. Yeah, this would work.
Um, which is kind of interesting
because, you know, when I rebooted the
business or rebranded the business, I
actually had to buy some hardware
upgrades because some of my machines
were just Well, they were functional,
they were just slow.
Yeah. Well, I I mean, it's
a it's a
regular challenge depending on where
you're at, you know, like like it used
to be. That's part of why I moved over
to the Apple and Mac world many years
ago is because I was going
through about every about every 12 to 18
months essentially. Well, desktops I
could go maybe two years. Laptops it was
literally like basically every 18 months
I needed a new laptop because it was
just it was things were moving too fast
at that time too. But you know it just
wasn't going to it wasn't helping me out
very much. So um yeah that's and I had
to decide on a regular basis. Okay, do I
go ahead and, you know, do I give my do
I get a bonus this quarter or do I go
get another laptop that can so I can do
my work better or, you know, get another
machine so I have a network that I can
test on? Things like that. All right.
So, here just based on that. So, making
decisions to upgrade your business.
um something as let's go with upgrade
your business cuz I think so here's hang
on. All right, so that's kind of the
high level but then with under that I've
got bullets for cost versus ROI versus
time. Uh maybe update your training
materials, update your uh environments
or even your employees. Huh? Even your
employees. Yeah.
Update
employees. Uh, onboarding materials,
virtual or physical environments,
equipment. Yeah.
Let's see where this one's going to go.
Um, okay. Let's see. Well, where do we
want to talk about? What's the second
one going to be? They're going to do
upgrade your business.
Well, we could go with this and then
kind of go like with some of the other
ones where we probably get something out
of this one that will lead into the next
one. That's true. And this may be a good
two-parter anyways because we could talk
more about equipment in one and then
maybe upgrading your employees in the
other or something like that. There's
some um so we have
tal have we talked about like legacy
systems and stuff like that
and upgrading updating your stuff to
like modern technology? I don't think
so. Okay. So, that's another one. I
mean, grant this is like self- serving,
but I mean, because that's definitely
what we do all the time. That's what we
talk to people about all the time. But,
um, yeah, we'll give that a shot. Hello
and welcome back. We are developer. We
are the building better developers
podcast. We are continuing this season
getting close to the end of building
better businesses. This episode, I'm not
going to wait make you wait. We're
actually going to talk about upgrading
your business. Now, how we talk about
upgrading it, that you're going to have
to wait for. You're not going to have to
wait for me to introduce myself. My name
is Rob Broadhead. I am one of the
founders of Developer, Building Better
Developers. Also, a founder of RB
Consulting, where we are what they call
a boutique consulting kind of place. And
actually, it's funny. Somebody asked me
the other day, actually, the other day
being today, uh what is what is boutique
consulting? And my thought on it is that
you have your general consulting
companies, especially in the IT world,
that they basically just throw bodies at
a problem. So it's like, hey, you have a
problem, we have people, they have
skills, we're going to send them to you,
we're going to bill you for them.
Boutique is a little bit more of like we
have a specific set of skills. We have
specific problems that we're going to
work with you on. And it's really more
of a partnership kind of thing where
we're going to help you do better. We're
not there to like just throw ours at
you. were actually there focused on
solving problems, not just throwing
random resources at you. I know that
seems a little insulting to some
consulting companies. So, if so, call
yourself boutique then and make sure
that you actually do that. Uh the way we
work is we sit down with our customers,
we talk about their business and
understand what is it, what is the
secret rep, the special recipe that you
have that you're going to sell to your
customers. Why are you special? What do
you do? And then within that and
understanding your business and how you
approach things, we're going to help you
figure out what is the best set of tools
that you have out there using technology
uh maybe even your people and things
like that is how do we build a better
business sort of that infrastructure for
you to do business better. We do that
through simplification, integration,
automation, innovation. There's a lot of
shuns out there and we use all of them,
whichever it is that we need to to help
you move from sort of lost and trying to
figure out what you want to do to having
a plan, a road map and then executing on
that road map so that you are in a
better place for today, tomorrow, for
months and years down the road. All
right, good thing, bad thing, bad thing
it is. I'm in the I'm in Nashville,
Tennessee in the time of year where
there's like storms, tornadoes,
hail, everything. It's just it's always
fun here. So, yesterday totally had to
live through it. I had to I had to drive
what should have been 10 minutes away.
It took like 30 and at one point, which
was sort of funny as I'm sitting there
about to leave pouring down rain and I'm
like, I'm going to wait a few minutes
because I don't want to walk through
this pouring down rain to get to my car.
in the time that it waited for like
between when I sat down and when the
rain abated enough for me to leave was
only like two minutes, but my estimated
time to reach my destination went from
30 minutes to almost an hour. And then I
got on the road and was able to make a
couple of things that, you know, I was
initially I got it down to 45 and I got
it down to about 30 minutes and got
there. But it's just a bad thing because
it sucks when you like get out on the
interstate and you can't see 10 ft in
front of you and everybody else has got
their red blinkers going on all that
kind of stuff and it's just it's just
slow and exhausting to do. So good thing
is that uh my youngest is getting close
to his uh capstone project and we got to
spend some time with him. He's uh he's
in film and was directing his film for
his, you know, capstone project and we
got to hang out with him and the film
crew and do all kinds of stuff there as
far as like, you know, helping out and
even did a little bit of acting and
stuff like that. I didn't, but we helped
with some of those and got some people
in there and just it was a good old
time, you know, hanging out and just
being behind the scenes watching that
kind of stuff go on. So, uh, as always,
sometimes it sucks to watch the sausage
get made, but sometimes it's actually
really cool to do. So, that was my good
thing for this week. Uh, a mediocre sort
of meh kind of thing this week is that
Michael is over there, but he's going to
make it better with an incredible
introduction. Go for it. Hey everyone,
my name is Michael Malashsh. I'm one of
the co-founders of Developer, Building
Better Developers. I'm also the founder
of Envision QA. We are like Rob
mentioned, we are very tailored to more
of a bi boutique style uh company where
we work with businesses really walking
through how your business work, but we
do it through the tester's eyes. We do
it from the user's perspective. So, we
spend a lot of time understanding how
your business works, what the problem is
that you're having, how to solve it, and
really understand how it all works. So
at the end of the process, we can build
you a custom solution that works for
your business to streamline the process
and make things work better. Or we can
help you find a custom uh system or
cookie cutter system on the shelf, which
may be cheaper and may get the job done
without having to spend a lot of time
developing. We look at both the pros and
the cons. At the end of the day, we try
to save you money and give you the best
solution possible. Good thing, bad
thing. Uh Rob, you already mentioned the
weather, so I'm not going to touch on
that. Uh good thing. I have been working
on a very difficult project for months
now, and I've had a particular task that
was assigned to me that I started
working on sometime early
April. This is a legacy
monolithic mess of an application. And
after weeks of working through this, 90%
of the problem being not having access
to the systems I needed access to, which
people didn't know what you needed
access to. So, it's one of those where
you kind of peel back the onion. Whoops,
roadblock. Whoops, roadblock. Well,
needless to say, today I finally was
able to push the button to commit the
code. Wrote the test. Everything worked.
It went in. Finally, job done. Moving
on. So, that's one of those great
moments. you just kind of like, yes, I
checked something out, but it's a big
sigh of relief. It's like, yay, party
time. Bad thing. It's that time of the
year. Um, it's you'll be watching this
probably after Memorial Day, but um my
mom passed away back in 2019 on Memorial
Day pre-COVID and uh well, it was kind
of bittersweet. Uh my relatives went to
visit the grave today, took some
pictures. I got that. So, it was it was
a reminder of that time of year. You
know, you lose loved ones. So, that was
kind of bittersweet getting that. So,
that was kind of my bad this week.
Well, let's try to bring it up a little
bit here and talk about upgrading your
business. Now, the thing that got me
thinking about this topic, for those of
you that weren't there in the the
pregame here beforehand, the pre-show,
is looking around at some of the just,
for lack of a better word, the toys that
I have, some of the technology that I
actually have acquired and um
intentionally done so as part of my
business over the years. I can go very
very far back because I can go back to
the point where I had an actual fax
machine because there was a day where
like you really needed one for a
business sort of. I don't think I use it
that much, but theoretically you needed
to have one. I also had a uh a speaker
phone. This is before you had cell
phones and stuff like that. So, I had a
nice little like one of these that you
could put out there and you could talk
to people. Uh you know, I've had
wireless stuff over the years and things
like that. And then eventually it's
things like desktops, laptops, tablets,
all the good things like that, including
like now some I was looking around some
of the things like extra screens so that
you can have your laptop but then you
can have like two or three extra screens
there. Uh if you could have a desktop
that you can have these really like, you
know, wide areas of use and things like
that there. Yes, these things are toys
to some extent or they're like bonuses
and bells and whistles, but there's also
value to them. And I want to talk about
not only that, but there's also more
direct things like software and things
like that. There's a difference between
having a really like crappy
um you know male client from the '9s
versus having something that is a you
know something modern. There's a there's
a difference there is and it people can
get into religious discussions almost
about this about things like having uh
you know an alternative software to
something for example for a long time uh
and there are there are big camps on
this but there's like Photoshop that was
expensive and still is not the cheapest
thing and then there are other things
out there uh like a da Vinci and some of
those that are going to be you know
price priced differently uh but in some
cases there's there's going to be a a
productivity cost. Sometimes there's
not. And that's what I talk about is is
stepping into some of these things is
looking and this is one of those it's
like a it really is a business checkup
kind of thing is looking at the the
things you do on a regular basis that
and not only that really the things that
your employees do on a regular basis and
considering is it time for me to get
something better? Is it time for me to
invest in my business? Now, this could
include things like training. You know,
maybe it's your your employees are just
they're struggling to use like let's say
you go in and you're like, "Okay, we're
going to go use HubSpot and we're going
to use the free version and that's going
to help us with our customer
relationship management. Uh maybe it's
going to set up our website, some things
like that because it says it could do
it." So, it's like, great, we're going
to do this. But then you get it and your
employees are losing days trying to
figure out how to just use it that they
don't have those skills. And a lot of
times some training will help get them
over the hump or sometimes even more
than that. It will go from totally
useless to, you know, super awesome
employee because now they know how to do
it. Now they've been trained on it. But
of course, you know, some of these
things you're going to find it's like,
ah, I'm going to train them, but to
train them, I've got to pay plane
tickets and I've got to pay for a hotel
for a week and then I've got to pay
thousands of dollars for a training
class and all of that. You're going to
look at it and say, "Geez, do I really
want to spend $20,000 training two of my
employees to enter data into a system
that I just spent $50,000 to do?" And
I'm making up numbers, but it feels like
that or maybe
worse. And then the bottom line is in a
lot of cases, yes, it actually is
valuable. That's that's the whole reason
that people can honestly part of the
reason they can charge that amount of
money for their training and some of the
things they do. Not everybody is like us
where we are just out here throwing
stuff at you all the time. There are a
lot of people out there that that's
their that is their business. That is
what they do. That is how they make
money. And the reason they make money is
because they bring value. They're not
just, you know, randomly saying, "Okay,
we're going to sit in front of a video
camera for several days with a class
full of people and just charge random
amounts." There is a value to it. they
can see that, hey, yes, you're going to
spend $5,000 for this class, but if
you're, you know, typical employee,
you're spending, let's say, you know,
it's a $50,000 a year
salary. You don't have a lot of time
that you have to save before now you're
starting to wreck, you know, 10% of
their time over however much time. Let's
say that saves them 10% of their time on
a week for the rest of their career.
Well, depending on how long they're with
you, you're probably going to earn that
money back fairly quickly. So yeah,
there's a lot of things like that that
you want to take into account and the
things
the thing I'm going to do is I'm going
to throw it out to you real quick
because I can see I I So I have a
question for you. So your idea there
prompted a question I want to throw at
you that I think goes well with this. So
when it comes to training your
employees, what is your thought of
training versus hiring a more senior
developer for the cost to train your
employees?
this is a and it's not just a senior
employee. There are some cases where
it's it's training your employee versus
hiring a specific set of skills. So, I
will, you know, let's let's broaden that
a little bit. And that includes things
like um honestly it even includes things
like people with college degrees, but
also with certifications, with
experience. You know, you're going to
get cheaper if they don't have
experience. If they just come out of
college, they just need a job. They're
not going to require a lot. But if
they've been doing this for 40 years,
they're going to want a pretty serious
salary. There's a lot of stuff that goes
into that. Now, this is where um I am
more of a do as I say, not as I do kind
of person because myself, I am very
quick to invest in the higher end. I am
not going to sit there and especially
with my business and with that kind of
stuff, I do not find it valuable to go
for, you know, to lowball a situation. I
would rather get somebody, you know,
like a developer that is more skilled
and spend some more money than I
would then I would sneeze. And I'm going
to put that there. So hopefully you can
pick that up later because we can edit
that one out. Um I want to be able to I
find that if I don't spend the money
upfront, I'm going to end up spending
more time bringing that resource up to
speed. And time is the thing that I just
I've I am not a fan of wasting time. So
I will spend more money. I will hire I
will and I have been in these arguments.
I one of my favorite that I was right uh
with a with a company many many years
ago. There was a guy that was like he
was he was decent. He was really green
though like you know maybe one two years
experience. And then we had a guy on the
other end that was and now I think he's
like a seale steuite person somewhere or
something like that very accomplished
very skilled person that was literally
going to cost over twice as much to hire
him and I argued quite a bit to I was
like we need the the double salaried
person. Now granted that wasn't coming
out of my back pocket but it was
something that was like in our budget
stuff like that. So there was a I had
skin in the game. We hired the cheap
person. They ended up being not useful,
not effective, and we came back later
and after I don't know, it's a few
months I think that person went away and
we were able to go back and get the
better person, the more expensive person
and honestly better as well for the
position and better as a human being.
John, if you're out there, you probably
aren't listening to us.
um was a very good guy and
um that was one of these that I had I
said all I was like I was right I was
like we should have spent the money
early on we would have saved a lot and
you got to think about with employees
that's actually a very big thing is that
you don't want there's a cost to churn
so if you're going to get somebody
you're going to have to either spend the
time and train them or you're going to
have to make sure that you bring
somebody in and you got to watch out for
like oh I spent all this I'm trading
them and then they go on to something
else. So, you know, now they're worth
more anyway, so now I've got to pay them
more. I think about that with um with
tools as well. You can get the the
freebie version and stuff like that. And
now it's nice that you have uh a lot of
this software as a service and cloud
things that they will scale up with you,
but in the past there's been a lot of
situations where you're going to sit
there and go, you know what, I don't
want the the community version or the
free version. There's too much that I
get out of the, you know, enterprise
version that is value to me. So, what
are your thoughts on that? Yes, I was
hoping you would throw that one over to
me because I am the biggest cheapkate
when it comes to things along that line.
I I look for the free option in
everything I can possibly do because I'm
a strong believer in open source and
also you know been around for a long
time you know WordPress uh or I forget
uh Corell uh Corell and Microsoft
hand in hand over Office and Word
Perfect or Works or whatever the hell
they were back in the day. Now you have
Libre which really is a good alternative
to Microsoft Office. you have
which is a more complex tool than Adobe
Photoshop. Um, there's always a tool out
there that you can do on the cheap. The
question you run into is, is the time to
learn the
tool costly versus buying something off
the shelf? So, like Libre, no, you can
download Libre. Boom. It is fairly
simple, almost identical to Microsoft
Office. versus Photoshop. There is
a learning curve to versus
Photoshop. There's a lot of things that
are similar, but can be a little
less forgiving if you don't know what
you're doing. So, you have to spend a
little time training up on that. So, it
it there are trade-offs to all these.
The question is, what is your return on
investment? Are you spending more time
learning the tool versus using the tool?
Uh, that is usually my kind of go-to to
determine what to use.
The other thing you got to be careful
of, especially for small
businesses,
is are you reaching the point that
community additions are violating the
licensing of the community edition? Um,
I have not quite reached that point, but
there I've been with companies where we
were small, quick startup, hey, great,
we can use all these tools, but then you
reach a point that you can't. And if a
internal or an external software audit
is done on your company, you're going to
find that oh crap, I'm out of
compliance, I'm now going to be build x
number. So you have to be careful to
watch out for those things. So if you
are using free tools, community
editions, open source, make sure you
understand the licensing before you get
too far into these tools. If you're just
a small one-off person just doing
things, you're probably fine. But as you
grow, this is something you definitely
need to add to your tuneup or your
business uh upgrade ideas. Uh the other
thing along that line that we were
talking about is you mentioned um tools
a while back.
Well, in the world of cloud-based
development today, you know, we have
things like uh Docker, you have AWS, we
have all these tools that we can use to
throw up virtual environments. And to go
from tools to like your workforce
development, a lot of times, make sure
that the software you're using, not just
the tools, but your environments, make
sure they're all up to date. Make sure
you're not running into something that
is running into security risks,
especially if you're dealing with things
like HIPPA, uh, healthcare, banking,
things along that lines. Make sure that
what you're using is still compliant.
Also, make sure that you're not running
into zero day crap. Make sure that like
your Windows is updated, your Mac's
updated, your devices are updated. Make
sure you stay compliant and up to date
because a lot of people can fall behind
on that and you run into the situation
where crap
uh this bug came out and whoops now my
software is down. Let me throw that back
to you Rob. Uh I I know I kind of
tallied a little. Yeah, this is there's
definitely that side. Um and I think
this is where it's I don't want to go
back too much on that. We have talked
about that a little bit security and
some things like that. So I do want to
swing back around a little bit to the uh
the equipment and the training side of
it is really the things and this is yes
it's a little bit about your customers
and things like that. So it may be like
um purchasing you know having a really
good license for some maybe help desk
software or outs outsourcing your help
desk to somebody that is going to do a
better job than your you know your
employees. But sometimes it is more cost
effective obviously to do that kind of
stuff. It may be that it, you know,
everybody hates the offshore help desk,
but that is cost effective at times. And
then there's also now AI is starting to
be a part of this and things like that
where it's like there are cost savings,
but then there's also these where it's
you're you're not really sure. It's and
it is like time. Like I said, I'm very
uh cognizant and and intentional about
time, but also it is something that is
it's very easy to uh to lose it when
you're think lose it in the the
calculations when you're saying, "Hey,
bottom line, I spent $1,000 on this
person or on this hardware, software, or
whatever it is. Where is my bottom line
increase?" you don't see directly that I
did this and it saved an hour a day
which you know you can do your math then
and say okay now that means that I
earned that $,000 back that month next
month six years however long it was you
know we keep talking about employees but
the other thing we have not mentioned
that does fall into this category is our
time because you and I have done this a
lot where oh I can do this quickly and I
think in my mind that oh I'm saving
money by doing it myself quicker when
actually you might be costing yourself
more money over time.
And that's exactly it is that you may be
doing something that you're like, okay,
it takes me five minutes to do it. It's
not that big a deal. But the cost
savings of buying that other thing of
upgrading or whatever it is suddenly can
make a big difference. I I go back to an
a a very like a more in-your-face kind
of example of back in the day when
people were this is a developer kind of
thing but and even actually I think
across the board it would take sometimes
minutes to boot your machine in the
morning. So people would come in and
they would they always had to turn their
machine on and boot it up and it would
take literally minutes. So, it was
literally something where you could like
come in, you turn your machine on, you
go get yourself a cup of coffee, you
come back, you're talking to people for
a little bit, and then finally you can
actually like log in and do work just to
go to a machine or, you know, wireless
or some of the things now that we have
where it's just like it's it's basically
instant on. You've saved several
minutes, but now you've saved, you know,
five minutes a day. Over a week, you're
talking almost a half an hour. You're
talking a couple hours a month. that
stuff adds up. Same thing, although it's
going to be harder to measure, are
things
like getting a modern machine versus
something that is just that isn't uh vis
like some people are like, "Oh, nobody
needs a big screen. Nobody needs, you
know, a wide screen for their work." But
depending on what you do and there is a
lot of people that are not developers,
accountants are a good example where it
is very valuable for them to have a nice
big screen where they can have, you
know, two spreadsheets up at the same
time or they can, you know, be reading a
spreadsheet or report while they're
entering it into the accounting system.
There's things like that. There's a lot
of places where having better equipment
actually helps quite a bit. And this
goes back, I will throw this back to one
of the very first places I worked at.
This guy was the development manager was
coming in and they were starting a new
software development wing in this
consult consulting company and his one
of the stipulations of him coming in to
work at the company as a development
manager was that he was going to be able
to have the budget to buy the highest
end machines for his developers which at
that point literally made a big a
difference of hours a day probably that
we spent working instead of waiting for
things to compile and things to re, you
know, recompile and regenerate and all
that kind of stuff that the machine was
would take large amounts of time. And of
course, the stronger machine, the faster
machine allows you to get through it
faster. And that's where you may not
have to worry about it too much, but it
things like having a better, you know,
internet connection or higher speed
wireless or having wireless that is
consistent, things like that in your
business. Yes, it costs money. Yes, it
is. It's infrastructure and investment
there, but there is a huge value in
doing so because there is a return on
your employees
time. I'll tack on to that slightly
before we get to the challenge.
But just a good case in point, this is
just this is not just for developers.
This also runs it to all levels of
business. And I will throw this out
because I had a customer over a decade
ago that um I had for almost 11 years
before he passed away. But he had this
he was a property management um business
where he would go buy in uh industrial
properties and things like that and uh
contract that not a not a software
developer, a business user. So, he was
using all his computers for business.
Word, Excel, uh, you know, uh,
QuickBooks, literally just to keep his
systems running. I would have to come in
on a Friday night and spend six hours
updating three machines to the latest
software updates, backing everything
up. It took me six years to convince him
to upgrade to the current level of
systems. I mean, we're talking business
level. He didn't want to go developer
level. My time to upgrade his systems
went from 6 to 12 hours to 2 hours.
Right? There is a huge savings. So
again, don't think of this just as a
developers. What what I need for my
developers, what do I need for my
business in general? So if you have
secretaries, accountants, make sure you
look at how long it is taking to do
these system maintenances and is it
worth upgrading versus just maintaining.
So that brings us to the challenge is
take a look at your business uh if you
if you have employees and spend a lot of
time just watching what they do during
the day. Uh this is actually I highly
recommend this on a regular basis
because and it's not so that you can
figure out if they're like you know
playing solitire or something like that.
is because you will learn where they're
spending their time and be able to, you
know, help address those issues because
that's part of what you want to do is
help your employees work better, be more
effective, be more productive. If it's
you, as you're going through the week,
where are the times where you're sitting
there like tapping your thumb, tapping
your fingers, waiting for something to
happen, where are the times that you are
tempted to go off and catch up on
Facebook or something like that because
you're like, "Okay, this is going to
take a while." Or that you get lost
reading email or things like that.
Honestly, just the times you get lost
reading email. Maybe there's something
that would be worth it to invest in
software that like puts a big red
warning light when you've spent more
than five minutes in email or things
like that. There some of these are yes,
they are restrictive and they feel like
oh my gosh, that's the Gestapo tactics,
but they're not. These are things that
we do to ourselves as well because we
know that we can get squirreish. We can
sit there and go, "Oh, there's a
squirrel." And the next thing you know,
we are off on something else. instead of
doing the stuff that we really want to
do. And this is even oursel like I know
myself. I shut down notifications on a
regular basis and now like live with my
phone pretty much not notifying me of
anything except for my like my kids get
through and now I actually resent my
kids sometimes because they'll just be
like they'll send something some dual
text and I'm thinking, "Okay, are you
dead? Are you on fire? What?" And no,
it's just they want to show me a cat
video or something like that. However,
see, I digress. That's why we put these
things in place. And that's what I want
you to do is take a look at where are
you spending your time. Where are and
it's not the things that we get
distracted by as much as it's like what
are the things that are actually like
these little thieves of time that are in
our daily and our, you know, weekly
routines that maybe we can like find a
way to improve it. I mean it, you know,
it would be extreme to say, "Yeah, you
know, it would be nice if I had a car
that could go 100 miles an hour so I
could get to work faster." Okay, maybe
that's not quite it, but there are
things like that. There are things like,
and it is my co my employees, that's why
there is a phone stipen, there is an
internet stipen, and they all have
internet. I'm like, spend this to
upgrade your internet. It's things like
that. is make sure that they've got a
modern phone and not some little thing
that we can't get a hold of on. It's
these things are all valuable. Some of
them are just like it's easy. You know,
it's like it's a lowhanging fruit.
Business needs to have it. But then
there are other things that if you want
to be a better business, you need to
have
it. One thing that everybody has,
including ourselves, is an email
address. So shoot us an email at
[email protected]. Let us know your
thoughts, your your thoughts, your
frustrations, your budget, stuff like
that. Anything that you have heard that
you like, that you don't like. We love
feedback and we are wrapping up a season
pretty soon here going into another one
and we are very much, you know, looking
for what is the next topic. We are very
open to that even more so than normal.
Uh you can also reach out to us on
developer.com. We have a contact us
form. You can get us out on you can
follow us on uh YouTube there's a
developer channel wherever you get
podcasts you can follow us there you can
like us you can send comments we will
you know give us feedback we'd love to
hear from you uh also on x at
developreneur we have stuff out there on
a regular basis uh if you haven't tried
the podcast uh but you're doing YouTube
okay you're getting pretty much
everything you need although it is a
little bit different you don't see quite
it is a little more cleaned up we'll say
when we get to the podcast level but if
you're on podcast, you do get there is
bonus material. We have other stuff that
we talk about. We have at least I don't
know usually at least 5 to 10 minutes of
extra content around every single
episode. And then also on our YouTube
channel, we've got stuff way way way
back. I I have had people that are like
marketing and brand people that when I
talk to them about my little company and
what I do and then I point them to
developer, they're like, "Oh my gosh,
you were talking about some little thing
of content. you have mountains and
oceans of content. And yes, that is what
we have there. And if you would like
even stuff that we haven't thought of in
years, if you'd like feedback, if you'd
like help, if you'd like us to, you
know, throw some of our suggestions, we
would be happy to do so. Right now, I'm
happy to give you some time back into
your life. Go out there and have
yourself a great day, a great week, and
we will talk to you next
time. Bonus material.
The biggest thing I will mention um is
when you if if you want to figure out
what your employees are doing, make sure
you keep it as a safe space so you're
not hovering, you're not, you know,
don't make them uncomfortable because
like that.
Um, a lot of times when you're trying to
figure out what the employees are doing,
sometimes it's fun to bring them all
into the conference room and say, "Hey,
walk me through a normal routine. What
are some of the problems you're having?"
You know, put it into a problem-solving
situation where the team can work
together to
help mitigate the hang-ups that
everyone's having. It could be software,
it could be time. Um, this is just
something not just for this, but just in
general, it's worth doing every so often
so that everyone is on the same page and
you can kind of keep things moving. So,
it is good to do this at least once a
year, but it's kind of good to do this
more than once in a while. And make it a
game, make it fun, make it something
engaging so that they don't feel
threatened when you sit down with your
employees.
I think, yeah, I'll go with that.
Gamification has been a thing for a few
years now, and especially in the world
of uh productivity enhancement, things
like that. It really is it's it's giving
you that endorphin rush of doing things
better. And some people get it
naturally, but for those that don't, you
know, something like that where you make
it, you know, make it a challenge, make
it a a team effort, whatever it is that
will draw people in and help you get the
feedback you need. So, they're going to
say, they're going to complain when they
need to complain and say, "You know
what? I could do my job better if this
was better. If this was out of my way,
if this didn't take so long." Those are
some of the kinds of things. And it
gosh, it can be so simplistic. Um,
sometimes it's like there are companies
that have figured out that it was
cheaper for them to bring lunch in for
their employees than it was to allow
their employees to go out for lunch
because they would go out and then it
would take extra time and it was time
of, you know, they had to go get to
their car and drive to the place and
wait for the food and then come back and
all this kind of stuff. And then it also
separated them. They didn't go out. But
if you have like a, you know, if you
have like a a family environment
essentially where you come in and you
have lunch and everybody's working
together, everybody has lunch together
and stuff like that, then you have a
little bit of a you have that community
feel. And it doesn't mean that everybody
has to have a lunch at the same time.
You don't have to be like, okay, the
bell rings and you go. But having that
opportunity will help you build company
uh build employees that are more uh
loyal to your company basically that
they're like now they're not just
getting a paycheck now they are tied to
other people. there's all these like
there's a lot of
uh indirect benefits to a lot of the
things that we're talking about and it
really is and the the last the extra I
guess bonus thing I'll say is don't
knock it until you've tried it. There
are things out there that your employees
will say this really matters to me. Uh,
a good example, like I said, big
screens. There's a lot of people talk
about. Another one is like just
comfortable chairs. If you have
employees that complain about, you know,
I just like a a higherend chair. Don't
give me this, you know, garden folding
chair that I have to sit in all day cuz
they're like sitting on it for eight,
you know, eight hours or maybe more. And
if you don't, if you're like, it's no
big deal. Sit in that chair for that
amount of time and see what happens. And
that's why again this is me talking to
somebody that I have been in those
situations where I've been like this
chair causes me pain. I get up on a
regular basis just to go like get out of
this thing or I'll go take my work
somewhere else just because I don't want
to sit in that chair too long and that's
when I'm like I need to get a new chair.
Health care that could be you could save
money on your health care costs by
buying a ergonomic chair for your
developers. And there are there are a
lot of companies that will tell you that
they will show you the they will show
you the money. They will show you the
numbers that say that you know this is
where ergonomics got really big now I
guess it's like 30 years ago is people
realize that there's like one there is a
cost for every little action you have
and if it takes you even you know a
tenth of a second more that can add up
over time and it allows you to be more
effective and things like that but also
there's there's exhaustion that's
involved. there is like things like, you
know, neck and back injuries and things
like that that come over time because of
repetitive stress stuff. So, there's a
lot of places to look. There's a lot of
value out there. That's why the
challenge is here. That's why I wanted
to throw this one out there is to say,
you know what, it
seems sunshine and roses and unicorns
and all that kind of stuff. But no, it
really is a bottom line black and white.
If you you are investing in your
company, your infrastructure, your
employees, so do it wisely and see what
happens. I dare you. I also dare you to
come back next time around because we
are wrapping this one up. I don't know
where I was going to go with that. So, I
just had to like just had to bail out of
that one quickly. Uh go out there and
have yourself a great day. We will talk
to you guys next time.
[Music]
Transcript Segments
1.35

[Music]

27.84

accord to the cloud and boom, we're live

30.64

as far as you know. Well, we're alive.

32.559

Uh well, actually, we might not be by

34.32

the time we get this. Who knows? But we

36.36

are right now. me through traversing my

41.2

various little notebook here to see

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where I can put some notes for what

45.28

we're going to talk about.

48.12

Um, randomness uh networking thing came

51.36

across a guy that he focuses on

55.239

um they're like a life coach and their

58.16

focus is uh burnout and stress and like

62.719

high per high achievers and high

64.479

performers and trying to keep them from

66.08

burning out stuff like that. So, uh,

68.64

swap business cards and said, you know,

70.96

this they've got like a whole, it's like

72.08

a Tony Robbins kind of thing. They've

73.28

got like a whole process they go through

74.72

for this, but like I said, hey, how

77.04

would you like to be on a podcast? And

80.24

he's like, "Sure." He's like, "So, I

82.64

think we may have a guest for a future

85.36

episode for an interview kind of thing."

88.72

Cool. It's crazy. I know Reena was still

92.479

um interested and in fact she's about to

95.439

move out of the local into her uh an

98.64

actual brick and mortar. So she's

101.2

location. Yeah. So she's growing. Uh I

103.84

think she's got a new vending machine

105.28

coming to Nashville. And so for bronze

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it's like she she's taking off. It's

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pretty cool.

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Let's see. Did we have leftovers? I

117.439

don't think we have any leftovers. I

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think we're

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caught on at least that backlog. So,

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let's see. What are some

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good thinking, thinking, thinking,

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thinking? I will preface this. This is a

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uh cocktail hour.

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Oh, maybe I should do that, too, because

140.4

I'm just running with decaf tea right

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now. Um, you know what?

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All right.

147.68

because I was uh at the Wei Work space

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uh at the

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local great place if you're in Jackson,

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Tennessee. All right. Uh I'm going to

159.04

step off camera for a second and pour

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myself a

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cocktail while we think about that

164.4

because you know what? It has

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been a day slashw week. So, while you're

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doing that, any ideas since I can still

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pick you up on the earbuds?

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Um I'm trying to think of what is some

181.64

good I'm trying to think like what have

183.68

we not really touched on that would be

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building better

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uh especially towards the end since we

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are near the end.

194

Yeah. One thing is I'm looking around my

196

plates here my doicile. Um, you know,

199.28

one thing we could go into, it's a

201.44

little bit more of a feels like a

202.8

Christmy kind of thing to do, but we

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could go into like,

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um, choosing proper equipment for your,

209.44

you know, purchasing proper equipment

211.04

for your employees and stuff like that.

213.36

So things like, you know, in, you know,

216.72

making a decision. Is it really worth it

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to go, you know, buy a large screen for

221.68

their computer or buy a, you know, do

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you buy a, you know, spend extra money

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on a laptop or do you just say, you

229.84

know, screw it and go with like, you

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know, something that's just the, you

233.599

know, the cheapest thing that's off the

235.04

shelf that like does the job and and

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things like that? because there's

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definitely some some level

241

of you know the investment in the tools

243.599

but that's going to pay off because

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that's also and that actually even goes

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into things like what if I get a um it's

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like training and um you know some of

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those tool like do I get an IDE or I

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just say no just use like notepad or

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something like

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that. Yeah, because we talked about uh

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was it employees or scaling? I think

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um build a sustainable business,

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pitching your business, product

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enhancement. Yeah, I like that. That

274.8

that definitely. So maybe

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uh let's see. So yeah, making decisions

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to upgrade equipment, cost versus ROI

286.4

versus time. Um,

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oh, so we did sort of do that. No, no, I

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was reading what you I summarized what

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you just said. Ah,

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okay. I said I want to give Yeah. Off

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the rails, business tuneup checklist,

303.6

try to refresh,

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refocus. Uh, yeah, we didn't really

308

touch on a I mean, we touched on other

310.16

things like when to hire people, when um

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yeah, how to build real relationships

315.28

that grow your business, networking

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strategies, continuity,

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recovery. Oh, yeah, there's more up

321.919

here. Uh, business growth strategies,

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uh, when and how to scale successfully,

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leveraging

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AI. Yeah, this would work.

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Um, which is kind of interesting

335.8

because, you know, when I rebooted the

338.4

business or rebranded the business, I

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actually had to buy some hardware

341.919

upgrades because some of my machines

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were just Well, they were functional,

345.84

they were just slow.

348.919

Yeah. Well, I I mean, it's

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a it's a

354.759

regular challenge depending on where

356.8

you're at, you know, like like it used

358.24

to be. That's part of why I moved over

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to the Apple and Mac world many years

362.4

ago is because I was going

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through about every about every 12 to 18

368.24

months essentially. Well, desktops I

370.4

could go maybe two years. Laptops it was

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literally like basically every 18 months

374.479

I needed a new laptop because it was

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just it was things were moving too fast

377.759

at that time too. But you know it just

380.08

wasn't going to it wasn't helping me out

383.039

very much. So um yeah that's and I had

386.96

to decide on a regular basis. Okay, do I

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go ahead and, you know, do I give my do

390.319

I get a bonus this quarter or do I go

393.199

get another laptop that can so I can do

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my work better or, you know, get another

398.4

machine so I have a network that I can

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test on? Things like that. All right.

402.4

So, here just based on that. So, making

404.4

decisions to upgrade your business.

411.72

um something as let's go with upgrade

415.199

your business cuz I think so here's hang

418.8

on. All right, so that's kind of the

421.759

high level but then with under that I've

423.84

got bullets for cost versus ROI versus

426.16

time. Uh maybe update your training

429.199

materials, update your uh environments

435.44

or even your employees. Huh? Even your

438.8

employees. Yeah.

441.479

Update

443.72

employees. Uh, onboarding materials,

446.479

virtual or physical environments,

449.88

equipment. Yeah.

453.12

Let's see where this one's going to go.

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Um, okay. Let's see. Well, where do we

457.199

want to talk about? What's the second

458.24

one going to be? They're going to do

459.44

upgrade your business.

461.44

Well, we could go with this and then

463.84

kind of go like with some of the other

465.44

ones where we probably get something out

467.52

of this one that will lead into the next

469.039

one. That's true. And this may be a good

470.96

two-parter anyways because we could talk

472.4

more about equipment in one and then

473.84

maybe upgrading your employees in the

475.28

other or something like that. There's

476.639

some um so we have

479.96

tal have we talked about like legacy

482.639

systems and stuff like that

484.52

and upgrading updating your stuff to

488

like modern technology? I don't think

490

so. Okay. So, that's another one. I

492.8

mean, grant this is like self- serving,

494.72

but I mean, because that's definitely

496.08

what we do all the time. That's what we

497.36

talk to people about all the time. But,

499.84

um, yeah, we'll give that a shot. Hello

505.919

and welcome back. We are developer. We

509.12

are the building better developers

510.479

podcast. We are continuing this season

512.8

getting close to the end of building

514.719

better businesses. This episode, I'm not

518.159

going to wait make you wait. We're

519.44

actually going to talk about upgrading

520.56

your business. Now, how we talk about

522.159

upgrading it, that you're going to have

524.08

to wait for. You're not going to have to

525.6

wait for me to introduce myself. My name

527.12

is Rob Broadhead. I am one of the

528.56

founders of Developer, Building Better

530

Developers. Also, a founder of RB

533.279

Consulting, where we are what they call

534.8

a boutique consulting kind of place. And

537.44

actually, it's funny. Somebody asked me

538.64

the other day, actually, the other day

540

being today, uh what is what is boutique

543.279

consulting? And my thought on it is that

546.08

you have your general consulting

547.519

companies, especially in the IT world,

549.6

that they basically just throw bodies at

551.92

a problem. So it's like, hey, you have a

553.519

problem, we have people, they have

555.279

skills, we're going to send them to you,

557.36

we're going to bill you for them.

558.8

Boutique is a little bit more of like we

560.8

have a specific set of skills. We have

562.64

specific problems that we're going to

564

work with you on. And it's really more

565.68

of a partnership kind of thing where

567.2

we're going to help you do better. We're

569.04

not there to like just throw ours at

570.48

you. were actually there focused on

572.48

solving problems, not just throwing

575.04

random resources at you. I know that

577.279

seems a little insulting to some

578.48

consulting companies. So, if so, call

580.56

yourself boutique then and make sure

583.12

that you actually do that. Uh the way we

585.88

work is we sit down with our customers,

588.399

we talk about their business and

589.6

understand what is it, what is the

591.279

secret rep, the special recipe that you

593.44

have that you're going to sell to your

595.279

customers. Why are you special? What do

597.2

you do? And then within that and

599.519

understanding your business and how you

600.959

approach things, we're going to help you

602.64

figure out what is the best set of tools

604.56

that you have out there using technology

607.279

uh maybe even your people and things

608.64

like that is how do we build a better

610.8

business sort of that infrastructure for

612.399

you to do business better. We do that

614.24

through simplification, integration,

615.839

automation, innovation. There's a lot of

618.32

shuns out there and we use all of them,

620.24

whichever it is that we need to to help

622.24

you move from sort of lost and trying to

624.64

figure out what you want to do to having

626.24

a plan, a road map and then executing on

628.399

that road map so that you are in a

629.92

better place for today, tomorrow, for

632.72

months and years down the road. All

635.12

right, good thing, bad thing, bad thing

639.279

it is. I'm in the I'm in Nashville,

641.6

Tennessee in the time of year where

643.76

there's like storms, tornadoes,

647.839

hail, everything. It's just it's always

650.72

fun here. So, yesterday totally had to

655.12

live through it. I had to I had to drive

657.04

what should have been 10 minutes away.

658.959

It took like 30 and at one point, which

662.079

was sort of funny as I'm sitting there

663.68

about to leave pouring down rain and I'm

665.92

like, I'm going to wait a few minutes

666.959

because I don't want to walk through

668.16

this pouring down rain to get to my car.

670.8

in the time that it waited for like

673.04

between when I sat down and when the

675.2

rain abated enough for me to leave was

677.2

only like two minutes, but my estimated

679.76

time to reach my destination went from

683.2

30 minutes to almost an hour. And then I

687.12

got on the road and was able to make a

689.76

couple of things that, you know, I was

691.36

initially I got it down to 45 and I got

693.04

it down to about 30 minutes and got

694.56

there. But it's just a bad thing because

697.04

it sucks when you like get out on the

698.8

interstate and you can't see 10 ft in

700.8

front of you and everybody else has got

701.76

their red blinkers going on all that

703.2

kind of stuff and it's just it's just

705.279

slow and exhausting to do. So good thing

709.44

is that uh my youngest is getting close

712.32

to his uh capstone project and we got to

715.6

spend some time with him. He's uh he's

718.16

in film and was directing his film for

721.92

his, you know, capstone project and we

723.76

got to hang out with him and the film

725.839

crew and do all kinds of stuff there as

729.839

far as like, you know, helping out and

732

even did a little bit of acting and

733.279

stuff like that. I didn't, but we helped

734.639

with some of those and got some people

735.92

in there and just it was a good old

738.56

time, you know, hanging out and just

740.079

being behind the scenes watching that

742.079

kind of stuff go on. So, uh, as always,

744.48

sometimes it sucks to watch the sausage

746.48

get made, but sometimes it's actually

748

really cool to do. So, that was my good

750.32

thing for this week. Uh, a mediocre sort

752.72

of meh kind of thing this week is that

754.32

Michael is over there, but he's going to

756.32

make it better with an incredible

758.32

introduction. Go for it. Hey everyone,

760.56

my name is Michael Malashsh. I'm one of

762.24

the co-founders of Developer, Building

764.16

Better Developers. I'm also the founder

766.639

of Envision QA. We are like Rob

769.839

mentioned, we are very tailored to more

772.079

of a bi boutique style uh company where

776

we work with businesses really walking

778.72

through how your business work, but we

780.639

do it through the tester's eyes. We do

782.72

it from the user's perspective. So, we

784.48

spend a lot of time understanding how

786.32

your business works, what the problem is

788.56

that you're having, how to solve it, and

791.2

really understand how it all works. So

793.68

at the end of the process, we can build

795.68

you a custom solution that works for

797.36

your business to streamline the process

799.519

and make things work better. Or we can

802.16

help you find a custom uh system or

804.959

cookie cutter system on the shelf, which

807.12

may be cheaper and may get the job done

809.12

without having to spend a lot of time

810.639

developing. We look at both the pros and

812.72

the cons. At the end of the day, we try

814.959

to save you money and give you the best

817.04

solution possible. Good thing, bad

819.519

thing. Uh Rob, you already mentioned the

822.32

weather, so I'm not going to touch on

823.68

that. Uh good thing. I have been working

828.399

on a very difficult project for months

832.16

now, and I've had a particular task that

834.8

was assigned to me that I started

836.959

working on sometime early

838.839

April. This is a legacy

842.36

monolithic mess of an application. And

846.12

after weeks of working through this, 90%

849.92

of the problem being not having access

852.56

to the systems I needed access to, which

855.36

people didn't know what you needed

856.88

access to. So, it's one of those where

858.32

you kind of peel back the onion. Whoops,

859.76

roadblock. Whoops, roadblock. Well,

861.76

needless to say, today I finally was

864.079

able to push the button to commit the

865.959

code. Wrote the test. Everything worked.

868.639

It went in. Finally, job done. Moving

872.399

on. So, that's one of those great

874.399

moments. you just kind of like, yes, I

876.8

checked something out, but it's a big

878.399

sigh of relief. It's like, yay, party

880.68

time. Bad thing. It's that time of the

883.839

year. Um, it's you'll be watching this

888

probably after Memorial Day, but um my

890.72

mom passed away back in 2019 on Memorial

893.279

Day pre-COVID and uh well, it was kind

897.279

of bittersweet. Uh my relatives went to

899.68

visit the grave today, took some

901.04

pictures. I got that. So, it was it was

903.76

a reminder of that time of year. You

905.6

know, you lose loved ones. So, that was

907.6

kind of bittersweet getting that. So,

909.199

that was kind of my bad this week.

912.72

Well, let's try to bring it up a little

915.36

bit here and talk about upgrading your

918.56

business. Now, the thing that got me

921.199

thinking about this topic, for those of

922.8

you that weren't there in the the

924.16

pregame here beforehand, the pre-show,

926.76

is looking around at some of the just,

929.92

for lack of a better word, the toys that

931.6

I have, some of the technology that I

933.279

actually have acquired and um

935.92

intentionally done so as part of my

937.68

business over the years. I can go very

940.079

very far back because I can go back to

941.76

the point where I had an actual fax

943.519

machine because there was a day where

945.279

like you really needed one for a

946.88

business sort of. I don't think I use it

949.6

that much, but theoretically you needed

951.839

to have one. I also had a uh a speaker

956.079

phone. This is before you had cell

957.36

phones and stuff like that. So, I had a

958.959

nice little like one of these that you

960.32

could put out there and you could talk

961.44

to people. Uh you know, I've had

964

wireless stuff over the years and things

965.92

like that. And then eventually it's

967.68

things like desktops, laptops, tablets,

970.88

all the good things like that, including

973.36

like now some I was looking around some

974.72

of the things like extra screens so that

976.639

you can have your laptop but then you

978.079

can have like two or three extra screens

979.519

there. Uh if you could have a desktop

981.199

that you can have these really like, you

982.56

know, wide areas of use and things like

984.56

that there. Yes, these things are toys

987.519

to some extent or they're like bonuses

989.44

and bells and whistles, but there's also

991.6

value to them. And I want to talk about

993.36

not only that, but there's also more

996.56

direct things like software and things

999.279

like that. There's a difference between

1000.88

having a really like crappy

1003.839

um you know male client from the '9s

1007.68

versus having something that is a you

1009.44

know something modern. There's a there's

1011.279

a difference there is and it people can

1013.279

get into religious discussions almost

1014.959

about this about things like having uh

1017.759

you know an alternative software to

1020.56

something for example for a long time uh

1023.04

and there are there are big camps on

1025.52

this but there's like Photoshop that was

1027.76

expensive and still is not the cheapest

1029.36

thing and then there are other things

1030.959

out there uh like a da Vinci and some of

1034.079

those that are going to be you know

1036.799

price priced differently uh but in some

1039.52

cases there's there's going to be a a

1041.28

productivity cost. Sometimes there's

1043.039

not. And that's what I talk about is is

1045.839

stepping into some of these things is

1047.199

looking and this is one of those it's

1048.48

like a it really is a business checkup

1050.08

kind of thing is looking at the the

1053.52

things you do on a regular basis that

1055.12

and not only that really the things that

1056.4

your employees do on a regular basis and

1060.919

considering is it time for me to get

1063.52

something better? Is it time for me to

1065.76

invest in my business? Now, this could

1068.24

include things like training. You know,

1070.559

maybe it's your your employees are just

1072.72

they're struggling to use like let's say

1075.679

you go in and you're like, "Okay, we're

1077.44

going to go use HubSpot and we're going

1078.72

to use the free version and that's going

1080

to help us with our customer

1081.2

relationship management. Uh maybe it's

1083.2

going to set up our website, some things

1084.559

like that because it says it could do

1085.84

it." So, it's like, great, we're going

1087.12

to do this. But then you get it and your

1090

employees are losing days trying to

1092.48

figure out how to just use it that they

1094.559

don't have those skills. And a lot of

1097.12

times some training will help get them

1098.72

over the hump or sometimes even more

1101.039

than that. It will go from totally

1103.12

useless to, you know, super awesome

1106.16

employee because now they know how to do

1107.679

it. Now they've been trained on it. But

1110.48

of course, you know, some of these

1112.16

things you're going to find it's like,

1113.12

ah, I'm going to train them, but to

1114.799

train them, I've got to pay plane

1116.16

tickets and I've got to pay for a hotel

1117.6

for a week and then I've got to pay

1119.12

thousands of dollars for a training

1120.64

class and all of that. You're going to

1122.16

look at it and say, "Geez, do I really

1123.44

want to spend $20,000 training two of my

1126.559

employees to enter data into a system

1128.88

that I just spent $50,000 to do?" And

1131.679

I'm making up numbers, but it feels like

1134.24

that or maybe

1135.799

worse. And then the bottom line is in a

1138.799

lot of cases, yes, it actually is

1141.039

valuable. That's that's the whole reason

1143.28

that people can honestly part of the

1145.039

reason they can charge that amount of

1147.12

money for their training and some of the

1148.559

things they do. Not everybody is like us

1150.24

where we are just out here throwing

1152.16

stuff at you all the time. There are a

1154

lot of people out there that that's

1155.12

their that is their business. That is

1157.12

what they do. That is how they make

1158.559

money. And the reason they make money is

1160.4

because they bring value. They're not

1162.64

just, you know, randomly saying, "Okay,

1164.72

we're going to sit in front of a video

1166

camera for several days with a class

1168.4

full of people and just charge random

1171.52

amounts." There is a value to it. they

1173.28

can see that, hey, yes, you're going to

1175.44

spend $5,000 for this class, but if

1178

you're, you know, typical employee,

1179.76

you're spending, let's say, you know,

1181.039

it's a $50,000 a year

1183.88

salary. You don't have a lot of time

1186.16

that you have to save before now you're

1188

starting to wreck, you know, 10% of

1189.84

their time over however much time. Let's

1192.32

say that saves them 10% of their time on

1194.24

a week for the rest of their career.

1197.36

Well, depending on how long they're with

1198.72

you, you're probably going to earn that

1199.919

money back fairly quickly. So yeah,

1202.4

there's a lot of things like that that

1203.679

you want to take into account and the

1205.84

things

1207.36

the thing I'm going to do is I'm going

1208.4

to throw it out to you real quick

1209.36

because I can see I I So I have a

1212

question for you. So your idea there

1215.28

prompted a question I want to throw at

1216.96

you that I think goes well with this. So

1219.84

when it comes to training your

1222.44

employees, what is your thought of

1224.64

training versus hiring a more senior

1227.32

developer for the cost to train your

1229.76

employees?

1232.08

this is a and it's not just a senior

1233.919

employee. There are some cases where

1235.2

it's it's training your employee versus

1237.52

hiring a specific set of skills. So, I

1239.6

will, you know, let's let's broaden that

1241.28

a little bit. And that includes things

1242.88

like um honestly it even includes things

1246

like people with college degrees, but

1247.76

also with certifications, with

1249.52

experience. You know, you're going to

1250.96

get cheaper if they don't have

1252.08

experience. If they just come out of

1253.36

college, they just need a job. They're

1255.12

not going to require a lot. But if

1256.72

they've been doing this for 40 years,

1258.64

they're going to want a pretty serious

1260.44

salary. There's a lot of stuff that goes

1262.799

into that. Now, this is where um I am

1266.88

more of a do as I say, not as I do kind

1269.919

of person because myself, I am very

1272.64

quick to invest in the higher end. I am

1276.159

not going to sit there and especially

1278.24

with my business and with that kind of

1279.679

stuff, I do not find it valuable to go

1282.799

for, you know, to lowball a situation. I

1285.2

would rather get somebody, you know,

1286.88

like a developer that is more skilled

1289.6

and spend some more money than I

1295.08

would then I would sneeze. And I'm going

1297.679

to put that there. So hopefully you can

1299.039

pick that up later because we can edit

1300.72

that one out. Um I want to be able to I

1304.88

find that if I don't spend the money

1307.2

upfront, I'm going to end up spending

1309.2

more time bringing that resource up to

1312

speed. And time is the thing that I just

1314.48

I've I am not a fan of wasting time. So

1318.4

I will spend more money. I will hire I

1320.88

will and I have been in these arguments.

1322.72

I one of my favorite that I was right uh

1326.88

with a with a company many many years

1329.919

ago. There was a guy that was like he

1332.48

was he was decent. He was really green

1335.52

though like you know maybe one two years

1337.12

experience. And then we had a guy on the

1339.28

other end that was and now I think he's

1342

like a seale steuite person somewhere or

1344.48

something like that very accomplished

1345.919

very skilled person that was literally

1348

going to cost over twice as much to hire

1350.64

him and I argued quite a bit to I was

1354.24

like we need the the double salaried

1357.6

person. Now granted that wasn't coming

1359.28

out of my back pocket but it was

1360.799

something that was like in our budget

1362.24

stuff like that. So there was a I had

1364.64

skin in the game. We hired the cheap

1367.52

person. They ended up being not useful,

1371.039

not effective, and we came back later

1373.919

and after I don't know, it's a few

1375.6

months I think that person went away and

1378.08

we were able to go back and get the

1380.08

better person, the more expensive person

1382.159

and honestly better as well for the

1384.159

position and better as a human being.

1386.96

John, if you're out there, you probably

1388.72

aren't listening to us.

1391.559

um was a very good guy and

1395.159

um that was one of these that I had I

1397.919

said all I was like I was right I was

1399.36

like we should have spent the money

1400.72

early on we would have saved a lot and

1403.919

you got to think about with employees

1405.6

that's actually a very big thing is that

1407.84

you don't want there's a cost to churn

1410.32

so if you're going to get somebody

1411.919

you're going to have to either spend the

1413.2

time and train them or you're going to

1415.6

have to make sure that you bring

1416.64

somebody in and you got to watch out for

1418

like oh I spent all this I'm trading

1419.44

them and then they go on to something

1420.72

else. So, you know, now they're worth

1422.64

more anyway, so now I've got to pay them

1424.32

more. I think about that with um with

1427.52

tools as well. You can get the the

1431.039

freebie version and stuff like that. And

1434.039

now it's nice that you have uh a lot of

1437.12

this software as a service and cloud

1438.72

things that they will scale up with you,

1441.44

but in the past there's been a lot of

1442.88

situations where you're going to sit

1444

there and go, you know what, I don't

1446.32

want the the community version or the

1448.559

free version. There's too much that I

1450.64

get out of the, you know, enterprise

1452.24

version that is value to me. So, what

1454.48

are your thoughts on that? Yes, I was

1457.2

hoping you would throw that one over to

1458.4

me because I am the biggest cheapkate

1461.52

when it comes to things along that line.

1463.84

I I look for the free option in

1467.12

everything I can possibly do because I'm

1469.039

a strong believer in open source and

1471.08

also you know been around for a long

1474.08

time you know WordPress uh or I forget

1477.919

uh Corell uh Corell and Microsoft

1482.48

hand in hand over Office and Word

1484.72

Perfect or Works or whatever the hell

1486.72

they were back in the day. Now you have

1488.48

Libre which really is a good alternative

1491.6

to Microsoft Office. you have

1493.919

which is a more complex tool than Adobe

1498.32

Photoshop. Um, there's always a tool out

1502.24

there that you can do on the cheap. The

1504.88

question you run into is, is the time to

1507.919

learn the

1509.559

tool costly versus buying something off

1513.12

the shelf? So, like Libre, no, you can

1515.52

download Libre. Boom. It is fairly

1517.76

simple, almost identical to Microsoft

1520.279

Office. versus Photoshop. There is

1524.08

a learning curve to versus

1526.32

Photoshop. There's a lot of things that

1527.76

are similar, but can be a little

1530.32

less forgiving if you don't know what

1531.919

you're doing. So, you have to spend a

1533.279

little time training up on that. So, it

1536

it there are trade-offs to all these.

1537.919

The question is, what is your return on

1540.4

investment? Are you spending more time

1542.559

learning the tool versus using the tool?

1545.52

Uh, that is usually my kind of go-to to

1549.12

determine what to use.

1551.2

The other thing you got to be careful

1552.799

of, especially for small

1555.24

businesses,

1558.12

is are you reaching the point that

1561.52

community additions are violating the

1564.32

licensing of the community edition? Um,

1568.48

I have not quite reached that point, but

1570.159

there I've been with companies where we

1573.2

were small, quick startup, hey, great,

1575.6

we can use all these tools, but then you

1577.36

reach a point that you can't. And if a

1580.64

internal or an external software audit

1583.2

is done on your company, you're going to

1585.039

find that oh crap, I'm out of

1587.159

compliance, I'm now going to be build x

1590

number. So you have to be careful to

1591.84

watch out for those things. So if you

1593.52

are using free tools, community

1595.2

editions, open source, make sure you

1597.52

understand the licensing before you get

1600.159

too far into these tools. If you're just

1602.08

a small one-off person just doing

1604.559

things, you're probably fine. But as you

1606.72

grow, this is something you definitely

1609.44

need to add to your tuneup or your

1611.76

business uh upgrade ideas. Uh the other

1614.96

thing along that line that we were

1617.039

talking about is you mentioned um tools

1620.4

a while back.

1622.36

Well, in the world of cloud-based

1624.64

development today, you know, we have

1626.799

things like uh Docker, you have AWS, we

1630.559

have all these tools that we can use to

1633.36

throw up virtual environments. And to go

1636.64

from tools to like your workforce

1638.84

development, a lot of times, make sure

1641.919

that the software you're using, not just

1645.2

the tools, but your environments, make

1647.679

sure they're all up to date. Make sure

1649.44

you're not running into something that

1650.88

is running into security risks,

1653.36

especially if you're dealing with things

1654.559

like HIPPA, uh, healthcare, banking,

1657.12

things along that lines. Make sure that

1659.279

what you're using is still compliant.

1661.76

Also, make sure that you're not running

1663.12

into zero day crap. Make sure that like

1665.44

your Windows is updated, your Mac's

1667.039

updated, your devices are updated. Make

1668.88

sure you stay compliant and up to date

1670.88

because a lot of people can fall behind

1672.96

on that and you run into the situation

1675.12

where crap

1677.12

uh this bug came out and whoops now my

1679.76

software is down. Let me throw that back

1682.399

to you Rob. Uh I I know I kind of

1685.279

tallied a little. Yeah, this is there's

1688.96

definitely that side. Um and I think

1691.6

this is where it's I don't want to go

1693.6

back too much on that. We have talked

1694.88

about that a little bit security and

1696.24

some things like that. So I do want to

1697.6

swing back around a little bit to the uh

1699.919

the equipment and the training side of

1702

it is really the things and this is yes

1704.559

it's a little bit about your customers

1706.08

and things like that. So it may be like

1708.159

um purchasing you know having a really

1710.72

good license for some maybe help desk

1713.2

software or outs outsourcing your help

1715.76

desk to somebody that is going to do a

1718.159

better job than your you know your

1719.679

employees. But sometimes it is more cost

1722.32

effective obviously to do that kind of

1723.84

stuff. It may be that it, you know,

1725.44

everybody hates the offshore help desk,

1728.36

but that is cost effective at times. And

1731.12

then there's also now AI is starting to

1733.12

be a part of this and things like that

1734.559

where it's like there are cost savings,

1738.64

but then there's also these where it's

1741.279

you're you're not really sure. It's and

1743.2

it is like time. Like I said, I'm very

1745.52

uh cognizant and and intentional about

1747.44

time, but also it is something that is

1750.32

it's very easy to uh to lose it when

1753.6

you're think lose it in the the

1755.12

calculations when you're saying, "Hey,

1757.039

bottom line, I spent $1,000 on this

1760.08

person or on this hardware, software, or

1763.44

whatever it is. Where is my bottom line

1766.159

increase?" you don't see directly that I

1768.88

did this and it saved an hour a day

1772.08

which you know you can do your math then

1773.919

and say okay now that means that I

1775.76

earned that $,000 back that month next

1778

month six years however long it was you

1780.64

know we keep talking about employees but

1782.799

the other thing we have not mentioned

1784.24

that does fall into this category is our

1786.559

time because you and I have done this a

1789.44

lot where oh I can do this quickly and I

1793.279

think in my mind that oh I'm saving

1795.44

money by doing it myself quicker when

1798.08

actually you might be costing yourself

1799.76

more money over time.

1802.48

And that's exactly it is that you may be

1804.159

doing something that you're like, okay,

1806.48

it takes me five minutes to do it. It's

1808

not that big a deal. But the cost

1810.88

savings of buying that other thing of

1812.96

upgrading or whatever it is suddenly can

1815.44

make a big difference. I I go back to an

1817.88

a a very like a more in-your-face kind

1820.96

of example of back in the day when

1822.799

people were this is a developer kind of

1824.72

thing but and even actually I think

1826.88

across the board it would take sometimes

1830

minutes to boot your machine in the

1832.08

morning. So people would come in and

1833.919

they would they always had to turn their

1836.08

machine on and boot it up and it would

1838.72

take literally minutes. So, it was

1840.48

literally something where you could like

1841.84

come in, you turn your machine on, you

1843.36

go get yourself a cup of coffee, you

1845.12

come back, you're talking to people for

1847.2

a little bit, and then finally you can

1848.72

actually like log in and do work just to

1852.399

go to a machine or, you know, wireless

1855.679

or some of the things now that we have

1856.96

where it's just like it's it's basically

1859.12

instant on. You've saved several

1862.399

minutes, but now you've saved, you know,

1864.159

five minutes a day. Over a week, you're

1866

talking almost a half an hour. You're

1867.679

talking a couple hours a month. that

1869.919

stuff adds up. Same thing, although it's

1872

going to be harder to measure, are

1873.36

things

1874.039

like getting a modern machine versus

1877.12

something that is just that isn't uh vis

1880.24

like some people are like, "Oh, nobody

1882

needs a big screen. Nobody needs, you

1884.32

know, a wide screen for their work." But

1887.279

depending on what you do and there is a

1888.96

lot of people that are not developers,

1891.279

accountants are a good example where it

1893.52

is very valuable for them to have a nice

1896.08

big screen where they can have, you

1897.519

know, two spreadsheets up at the same

1898.96

time or they can, you know, be reading a

1900.799

spreadsheet or report while they're

1902.08

entering it into the accounting system.

1903.679

There's things like that. There's a lot

1905.12

of places where having better equipment

1908.96

actually helps quite a bit. And this

1910.96

goes back, I will throw this back to one

1913.2

of the very first places I worked at.

1915.039

This guy was the development manager was

1916.96

coming in and they were starting a new

1918.08

software development wing in this

1919.36

consult consulting company and his one

1922.24

of the stipulations of him coming in to

1924.159

work at the company as a development

1925.519

manager was that he was going to be able

1928.559

to have the budget to buy the highest

1930.88

end machines for his developers which at

1933.36

that point literally made a big a

1936.64

difference of hours a day probably that

1939.919

we spent working instead of waiting for

1943.12

things to compile and things to re, you

1945.36

know, recompile and regenerate and all

1947.6

that kind of stuff that the machine was

1949.679

would take large amounts of time. And of

1951.679

course, the stronger machine, the faster

1953.279

machine allows you to get through it

1955.2

faster. And that's where you may not

1958.159

have to worry about it too much, but it

1959.84

things like having a better, you know,

1961.919

internet connection or higher speed

1963.919

wireless or having wireless that is

1966.24

consistent, things like that in your

1968.159

business. Yes, it costs money. Yes, it

1970.24

is. It's infrastructure and investment

1973.12

there, but there is a huge value in

1975.84

doing so because there is a return on

1977.679

your employees

1979.96

time. I'll tack on to that slightly

1982.48

before we get to the challenge.

1984.6

But just a good case in point, this is

1987.519

just this is not just for developers.

1990.799

This also runs it to all levels of

1993.279

business. And I will throw this out

1994.559

because I had a customer over a decade

1996.799

ago that um I had for almost 11 years

2000.48

before he passed away. But he had this

2004.72

he was a property management um business

2008.159

where he would go buy in uh industrial

2011.44

properties and things like that and uh

2014.24

contract that not a not a software

2017.44

developer, a business user. So, he was

2020

using all his computers for business.

2022.559

Word, Excel, uh, you know, uh,

2026.6

QuickBooks, literally just to keep his

2029.039

systems running. I would have to come in

2031.76

on a Friday night and spend six hours

2034.48

updating three machines to the latest

2037.279

software updates, backing everything

2039.72

up. It took me six years to convince him

2043.36

to upgrade to the current level of

2046.159

systems. I mean, we're talking business

2048

level. He didn't want to go developer

2050.04

level. My time to upgrade his systems

2053.52

went from 6 to 12 hours to 2 hours.

2057.839

Right? There is a huge savings. So

2062.24

again, don't think of this just as a

2064.399

developers. What what I need for my

2066

developers, what do I need for my

2067.599

business in general? So if you have

2069.2

secretaries, accountants, make sure you

2072.159

look at how long it is taking to do

2074.96

these system maintenances and is it

2077.52

worth upgrading versus just maintaining.

2081.919

So that brings us to the challenge is

2084.399

take a look at your business uh if you

2086.399

if you have employees and spend a lot of

2088.079

time just watching what they do during

2089.839

the day. Uh this is actually I highly

2092.24

recommend this on a regular basis

2093.44

because and it's not so that you can

2094.8

figure out if they're like you know

2096.72

playing solitire or something like that.

2098

is because you will learn where they're

2099.839

spending their time and be able to, you

2102.4

know, help address those issues because

2104.16

that's part of what you want to do is

2105.28

help your employees work better, be more

2107.119

effective, be more productive. If it's

2110.04

you, as you're going through the week,

2112.32

where are the times where you're sitting

2113.44

there like tapping your thumb, tapping

2115.28

your fingers, waiting for something to

2116.48

happen, where are the times that you are

2117.839

tempted to go off and catch up on

2121.04

Facebook or something like that because

2122.48

you're like, "Okay, this is going to

2123.52

take a while." Or that you get lost

2125.119

reading email or things like that.

2126.88

Honestly, just the times you get lost

2128.96

reading email. Maybe there's something

2130.32

that would be worth it to invest in

2132

software that like puts a big red

2134.24

warning light when you've spent more

2135.44

than five minutes in email or things

2136.96

like that. There some of these are yes,

2138.88

they are restrictive and they feel like

2140.56

oh my gosh, that's the Gestapo tactics,

2144.079

but they're not. These are things that

2145.839

we do to ourselves as well because we

2148.48

know that we can get squirreish. We can

2151.119

sit there and go, "Oh, there's a

2152.48

squirrel." And the next thing you know,

2153.76

we are off on something else. instead of

2156.079

doing the stuff that we really want to

2157.839

do. And this is even oursel like I know

2161.24

myself. I shut down notifications on a

2164.16

regular basis and now like live with my

2166.079

phone pretty much not notifying me of

2168.599

anything except for my like my kids get

2171.599

through and now I actually resent my

2173.599

kids sometimes because they'll just be

2174.96

like they'll send something some dual

2176.88

text and I'm thinking, "Okay, are you

2178.4

dead? Are you on fire? What?" And no,

2181.359

it's just they want to show me a cat

2183.04

video or something like that. However,

2186.079

see, I digress. That's why we put these

2189.44

things in place. And that's what I want

2191.44

you to do is take a look at where are

2192.64

you spending your time. Where are and

2195.2

it's not the things that we get

2197.359

distracted by as much as it's like what

2199.119

are the things that are actually like

2200.56

these little thieves of time that are in

2203.839

our daily and our, you know, weekly

2207.88

routines that maybe we can like find a

2210.72

way to improve it. I mean it, you know,

2212.8

it would be extreme to say, "Yeah, you

2214.72

know, it would be nice if I had a car

2216.64

that could go 100 miles an hour so I

2219.359

could get to work faster." Okay, maybe

2221.599

that's not quite it, but there are

2223.2

things like that. There are things like,

2224.96

and it is my co my employees, that's why

2228.64

there is a phone stipen, there is an

2231.2

internet stipen, and they all have

2233.28

internet. I'm like, spend this to

2236.079

upgrade your internet. It's things like

2237.839

that. is make sure that they've got a

2240.079

modern phone and not some little thing

2241.839

that we can't get a hold of on. It's

2243.76

these things are all valuable. Some of

2245.68

them are just like it's easy. You know,

2248.88

it's like it's a lowhanging fruit.

2250.64

Business needs to have it. But then

2252.4

there are other things that if you want

2253.92

to be a better business, you need to

2256.4

have

2257.32

it. One thing that everybody has,

2260.32

including ourselves, is an email

2261.839

address. So shoot us an email at

2264.359

[email protected]. Let us know your

2266.16

thoughts, your your thoughts, your

2268.92

frustrations, your budget, stuff like

2271.28

that. Anything that you have heard that

2273.599

you like, that you don't like. We love

2275.599

feedback and we are wrapping up a season

2278.079

pretty soon here going into another one

2280.16

and we are very much, you know, looking

2282.64

for what is the next topic. We are very

2284.88

open to that even more so than normal.

2287.92

Uh you can also reach out to us on

2289.839

developer.com. We have a contact us

2291.599

form. You can get us out on you can

2294.24

follow us on uh YouTube there's a

2295.92

developer channel wherever you get

2297.839

podcasts you can follow us there you can

2299.92

like us you can send comments we will

2301.92

you know give us feedback we'd love to

2303.44

hear from you uh also on x at

2306.72

developreneur we have stuff out there on

2308.56

a regular basis uh if you haven't tried

2310.88

the podcast uh but you're doing YouTube

2314

okay you're getting pretty much

2315.2

everything you need although it is a

2316.56

little bit different you don't see quite

2317.839

it is a little more cleaned up we'll say

2319.52

when we get to the podcast level but if

2321.839

you're on podcast, you do get there is

2324

bonus material. We have other stuff that

2325.92

we talk about. We have at least I don't

2327.44

know usually at least 5 to 10 minutes of

2329.839

extra content around every single

2332.8

episode. And then also on our YouTube

2334.72

channel, we've got stuff way way way

2336.72

back. I I have had people that are like

2339.839

marketing and brand people that when I

2341.52

talk to them about my little company and

2343.04

what I do and then I point them to

2344.96

developer, they're like, "Oh my gosh,

2346.96

you were talking about some little thing

2348.64

of content. you have mountains and

2351.599

oceans of content. And yes, that is what

2353.839

we have there. And if you would like

2356.24

even stuff that we haven't thought of in

2358.48

years, if you'd like feedback, if you'd

2360.32

like help, if you'd like us to, you

2361.76

know, throw some of our suggestions, we

2363.76

would be happy to do so. Right now, I'm

2366.48

happy to give you some time back into

2368.4

your life. Go out there and have

2370.16

yourself a great day, a great week, and

2372.4

we will talk to you next

2375.24

time. Bonus material.

2379.52

The biggest thing I will mention um is

2384.24

when you if if you want to figure out

2386.24

what your employees are doing, make sure

2388.4

you keep it as a safe space so you're

2390.16

not hovering, you're not, you know,

2393.119

don't make them uncomfortable because

2395.92

like that.

2398.44

Um, a lot of times when you're trying to

2401.119

figure out what the employees are doing,

2402.64

sometimes it's fun to bring them all

2404.96

into the conference room and say, "Hey,

2406.96

walk me through a normal routine. What

2408.88

are some of the problems you're having?"

2410.8

You know, put it into a problem-solving

2414.96

situation where the team can work

2416.88

together to

2418.68

help mitigate the hang-ups that

2422.16

everyone's having. It could be software,

2424.24

it could be time. Um, this is just

2426.8

something not just for this, but just in

2429.599

general, it's worth doing every so often

2432.56

so that everyone is on the same page and

2435.76

you can kind of keep things moving. So,

2437.92

it is good to do this at least once a

2440.72

year, but it's kind of good to do this

2442.48

more than once in a while. And make it a

2445.68

game, make it fun, make it something

2448.079

engaging so that they don't feel

2449.92

threatened when you sit down with your

2451.839

employees.

2453.599

I think, yeah, I'll go with that.

2455.76

Gamification has been a thing for a few

2458.72

years now, and especially in the world

2460.4

of uh productivity enhancement, things

2463.04

like that. It really is it's it's giving

2465.68

you that endorphin rush of doing things

2468.48

better. And some people get it

2469.68

naturally, but for those that don't, you

2471.44

know, something like that where you make

2472.64

it, you know, make it a challenge, make

2474.48

it a a team effort, whatever it is that

2476.72

will draw people in and help you get the

2479.44

feedback you need. So, they're going to

2480.88

say, they're going to complain when they

2482.16

need to complain and say, "You know

2483.359

what? I could do my job better if this

2487.04

was better. If this was out of my way,

2489.119

if this didn't take so long." Those are

2490.88

some of the kinds of things. And it

2492.96

gosh, it can be so simplistic. Um,

2496.8

sometimes it's like there are companies

2498.56

that have figured out that it was

2499.839

cheaper for them to bring lunch in for

2503.2

their employees than it was to allow

2504.64

their employees to go out for lunch

2506.48

because they would go out and then it

2507.839

would take extra time and it was time

2509.52

of, you know, they had to go get to

2511.44

their car and drive to the place and

2513.2

wait for the food and then come back and

2514.96

all this kind of stuff. And then it also

2517.2

separated them. They didn't go out. But

2519.599

if you have like a, you know, if you

2521.04

have like a a family environment

2523.599

essentially where you come in and you

2524.72

have lunch and everybody's working

2526

together, everybody has lunch together

2527.52

and stuff like that, then you have a

2528.96

little bit of a you have that community

2531.119

feel. And it doesn't mean that everybody

2532.8

has to have a lunch at the same time.

2534

You don't have to be like, okay, the

2535.359

bell rings and you go. But having that

2538.92

opportunity will help you build company

2542.4

uh build employees that are more uh

2545.44

loyal to your company basically that

2547.359

they're like now they're not just

2549.44

getting a paycheck now they are tied to

2551.119

other people. there's all these like

2553.119

there's a lot of

2555.52

uh indirect benefits to a lot of the

2558.72

things that we're talking about and it

2561.119

really is and the the last the extra I

2564

guess bonus thing I'll say is don't

2566.4

knock it until you've tried it. There

2568.24

are things out there that your employees

2569.68

will say this really matters to me. Uh,

2572.56

a good example, like I said, big

2574.319

screens. There's a lot of people talk

2575.44

about. Another one is like just

2576.8

comfortable chairs. If you have

2579.839

employees that complain about, you know,

2582.56

I just like a a higherend chair. Don't

2585.119

give me this, you know, garden folding

2588.64

chair that I have to sit in all day cuz

2591.119

they're like sitting on it for eight,

2592.48

you know, eight hours or maybe more. And

2595.44

if you don't, if you're like, it's no

2597.359

big deal. Sit in that chair for that

2599.52

amount of time and see what happens. And

2601.52

that's why again this is me talking to

2604.64

somebody that I have been in those

2605.92

situations where I've been like this

2607.68

chair causes me pain. I get up on a

2610.56

regular basis just to go like get out of

2612.72

this thing or I'll go take my work

2614.4

somewhere else just because I don't want

2616.16

to sit in that chair too long and that's

2617.92

when I'm like I need to get a new chair.

2620

Health care that could be you could save

2623.44

money on your health care costs by

2624.96

buying a ergonomic chair for your

2627.2

developers. And there are there are a

2630

lot of companies that will tell you that

2631.52

they will show you the they will show

2633.359

you the money. They will show you the

2634.96

numbers that say that you know this is

2637.44

where ergonomics got really big now I

2639.68

guess it's like 30 years ago is people

2641.2

realize that there's like one there is a

2643.52

cost for every little action you have

2645.44

and if it takes you even you know a

2648.079

tenth of a second more that can add up

2649.92

over time and it allows you to be more

2651.52

effective and things like that but also

2653.2

there's there's exhaustion that's

2655.119

involved. there is like things like, you

2657.2

know, neck and back injuries and things

2658.8

like that that come over time because of

2660.56

repetitive stress stuff. So, there's a

2663.839

lot of places to look. There's a lot of

2665.599

value out there. That's why the

2667.44

challenge is here. That's why I wanted

2668.72

to throw this one out there is to say,

2670

you know what, it

2671.24

seems sunshine and roses and unicorns

2674.48

and all that kind of stuff. But no, it

2676.16

really is a bottom line black and white.

2679.119

If you you are investing in your

2682.24

company, your infrastructure, your

2684.2

employees, so do it wisely and see what

2687.68

happens. I dare you. I also dare you to

2692

come back next time around because we

2693.92

are wrapping this one up. I don't know

2695.839

where I was going to go with that. So, I

2697.359

just had to like just had to bail out of

2698.8

that one quickly. Uh go out there and

2700.4

have yourself a great day. We will talk

2702.319

to you guys next time.

2706.19

[Music]